Child Visa Refusal (Uk)

[steve1967]

Hi all,

My wife came to England nearly 4 years ago leaving her daughter with her grandparents in Thailand. we recently applied for a settlement visa for her daughter and have been refused on afew issues which can be rectified but the main problem is proving sole resposisibilty. the refusal letter said that my wifes parents have looked after her since my wife came to england and therefore sole responsibilty is an issue.

We need help with regards to this as we are putting together an appeal.

I have more information in regards to our application and will answer any questions anyone has.

any info wrt how other applications got around the issue of sole responsibilty would be gratefully appreciated as we would like to bring my wifes daughter to england so we can become a family.

Many thanks in advance.

Steve

[kunash]

you will probably wish to do the appeal yourself, but this sounds complicated and you may be better off using a visa agent ( due to the 4 year timescale ).

is the father still around?

you will need to go to the courts i think. the ampur cannot help you here (they can only issue a 3 - 6 month por kor 14). you will need to obtain a '''por kor 14'' paper which shows you have, under thai law, responsibility for the child (the courts can issue a longer term por kor. the father can countersign this. if he is not willing to, there are ways around this. was custody of the child awarded to your wife at divorce? the main problem is trying to explain away these 4 years. that is why i think an agent can help you better. having a por kor 14 does not guarantee you will get the visa, but it will help.

can you post the exact words of the refusal?

Edited July 3, 2011 by kunash

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Post the GV 51 please did you include :

1. Phone records
2. Evidence of visits
3. Money transfers
4. Por Kor 14 document

Edited July 3, 2011 by ThaiVisaExpress

[7by7]

Four years is a long time to be separated. I know that not everyone's circumstances are the same, but in my opinion if at all possible parent and child should apply together at the same time. The longer parent and child have been separated, the more difficult it will be to show sole responsibility.

As said, we need to know exactly what the refusal notice says in order to give you specific advice; but you may find http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/settlement/children#595127682 useful.

[steve1967]

Hi, thanks for your quick replies, the father hasn't had contact with the daughter since she was born and hasn't been an issue during our application. he isn't mentioned on the refusal letter. my wife has just returned to England after spending 3 months with her daughter in Thailand so applying for the por kor 14 is not possible in the next 3 weeks. they did mention phone records and records of money sent over which we can provide. but they say

'you live in your grandparents house and you are in good health and attend school regularly,they attend parent and teacher evenings at your school and has a say in decisions which affect your life. I am aware that sole responsibility not only amounts to financial support but also to such matters of emotional support and an abiding interest in the child's upbringing welfare and well being during a period of separation. who has a responsibility for a child's upbringing and whether that responsibility is sole is a factual matter to be decided on all the evidence. the issue of sole responsibility is not just a matter between parents, so even if there is only one parent involved. that parent may not have sole responsibility. I am aware that responsibility for a child's upbringing may be undertaken by different individuals in your case the maternal grandfather. thus responsibility has been shared and not sole. Consequently i am not satisfied that you have one parent who is present and settled in the UK who has sole responsibility for your upbringing as required by paragraph 301 (i)('

That is part of the refusal letter and i would be willing to send the rest to anyone who may be able to help our appeal.

Thanks in advance

Steve.

[bobrussell]

Can you show that anything has changed to prevent the grandparents continuing to look after the child?

The ECO has a responsibility to ensure that the welfare of the child is paramount. He or she has clearly decided that the child is being cared for and responsibility taken on a day to day basis by your parents.

Four years is a long time but being a parent does not give automatic rights when it comes to visas. If for example your parents are elderly and no longer capable of looking after your daughter this would be taken into account. On appeal there may be questions as to why this was not brought up in the original application. If it was then medical evidence may help support an appeal.

What is your wife's nationality? If she has a British passport then I would doubt it would be acceptable for a child to be prevented form joining her parent. This would be a case to take to your MP. Human rights legislation (much maligned/misused in immigration cases) should apply to an EU citizen.

Appeals are probably best dealt with by a specialist. In the UK they must be registered with the OISC.

[daveyravey]

Just appeal yourself. My bet is that they wont even contest the appeal and they will issue this visa before the appeal. IMO they refuse as many as they can hoping you will go away. Address the refusal issues and appeal. You have nothing to lose.

[7by7]

IMO they refuse as many as they can hoping you will go away.

With an acceptance rate year after year of above 90%, plus the need for every refusal to be justified; I doubt it.

You are correct that the reasons for the refusal need to be addressed in any appeal; but from the extract of the refusal notice posted this does not seem to be a simple error on the ECO's part or a matter of insufficient documents being provided by the applicant. To my mind there are complex issues raised here.

Steve, I would recommend some professional advice.

Remember, notice of appeal must be submitted within 28 days of the refusal.

[daveyravey]

IMO they refuse as many as they can hoping you will go away.

With an acceptance rate year after year of above 90%, plus the need for every refusal to be justified; I doubt it.

You are correct that the reasons for the refusal need to be addressed in any appeal; but from the extract of the refusal notice posted this does not seem to be a simple error on the ECO's part or a matter of insufficient documents being provided by the applicant. To my mind there are complex issues raised here.

Steve, I would recommend some professional advice.

Remember, notice of appeal must be submitted within 28 days of the refusal.

So your telling me that 9 out of 10 get accepted straight away?

Bul lshit!

[bobrussell]

I have to say I hope it unlikely that an appeal would get far before a visa was approved. The rules about proving sole-responsibility can be very harsh and very few people in the UK would consider it acceptable to prevent a child from living with his or her mother. The child's welfare (under the immigration rules) must be considered paramount.

If there are two Thai parents able and willing to look after the child then there may be an argument for rejecting a visa application. Just because the choice has been made for a child to live with family (even over a period of years) the system should be flexible enough to allow for changes.

The arguments given in the refusal notice are IMO a bit of a disgrace. Just because a child is well looked after by extended family does not make it right for the child in the future. The assumption should be that the child's best interest is served by living with parents. If this is not possible then one parent.

The ECO has obviously seen more detail on the application so there may be other factors we do not know about but in general it should be accepted (as it generally is in the UK) that it is good to reunite child and parent. Unless there are sound reasons to show otherwise this visa should be almost automatic.

This is definitely one to get specialist help with. It does not sound as if just providing a bit more information will tip the balance.

Unfortunately the 'book' that the ECO works from gives rules not moral guidance. In the past OISC experts have been available through the Citizens Advice Bureaux so probably a good place to start.

Edited July 4, 2011 by bobrussell

[7by7]

So your telling me that 9 out of 10 get accepted straight away?

In Thailand, yes. Check the figures for yourself here.

These are the UKBA's own figures, and before you doubt their accuracy just ask yourself "Why would they lie?"

Now, back on topic, please.

[jasonr3255]

Steve,

I feel for you mate as I have been refused before for child settlement, but don't give up and also look at the possibility of re submitting the application, It may pay to address the concerns of the refusal by submitting extra evidence to support your application. I have re submitted twice before and been successful both times, it's a lot quicker and to be honest is sometimes more favourable as it shows the mother is more desperate to not be disconnected with her child any longer. Make it water tight the second time including extra docs like school bus trips letter from school reciepts for uniform school days out. Did you include the sole custody document different to the por kor 14 ?

Good luck and re submit if you feel you can support with extra documents.

[meatboy]

steve did they ask you why you both did not take her in the begining?did she declare she had a child,after 30years exp.about thais i know a lot of girls do not tell they have children,we had one couple lived in our city in the uk the husband didnt know she had 2kids till a letter arived asking for money,that was 6years after she moved in the uk. how old is the child ? any way keep trying and good luck.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You should prepare an appeal addressing all the issues.

The Por Kor 14 is one piece of the jigsaw ,however I am sure you can add further information with the appeal papers.

If you require professional help feel free to contact me.