New Govt Proposed To Approve Bangkok-Chiang Mai High-Speed Rail Project

[webfact]

New govt proposed to approve hi-speed rail project

By Janjira Jarusupawat

The Nation

Chiang Mai

The State Enterprise Policy Office (Sepo) will propose before the year's end that Yingluck Shinawatra's Cabinet approve the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed rail project.

Addressing the mobile Sepo 2011 meeting at Chiang Mai's Lotus Pang Suan Kaew Hotel yesterday, Sepo director-general Somchai Sajjapongse expressed confidence that the Chiang Mai-Bangkok high-speed train would be realised during the new government's term.

He said Yingluck, a Chiang Mai native, would see the importance of the project.

Somchai said the public-private partnership (PPP) committee was pushing high-speed train projects to raise people's quality of life and the country's ability to compete.

It was very likely that not only the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route would begin in this government's term but also the Bangkok-Rayong, Bangkok-Nong Khai and Bangkok-Hat Yai routes, he added.

Somchai said the Thai government and its Chinese counterpart had signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the Bangkok-Nong Khai and Bangkok-Hat Yai routes.

Yingluck's government could proceed on three more high-potential routes, Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Rayong and Bangkok-Ubon Ratchathani, which Sepo would get private companies to bid for.

So far, companies from countries including Japan, Korea and Germany had expressed interest to bid for them, he said.

The Bangkok-Chiang Mai route was the most promising due to positive returns on investment. The people and private sector were in agreement in wanting the project to start quickly, he said.

"According to initial discussions, the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) would be the main agency in charge of it. As another Bt70 billion is needed for the construction and railing, the Finance Ministry or a joint-venture company could raise funds to invest in the project and pay the railway rental fee to SRT," he said.

Sepo and the Finance Ministry will propose this project to the new government as soon as possible, and the contract should be signed by the year's end or early next year. Sepo will quickly draft the terms of reference for the project, he said.

The Chiang Mai route, which will need a budget of Bt100 billion and shorten the journey between the cities to three hours 30 minutes, won't cause environmental impacts because its one-metre-wide railway will be built in parallel with the existing railway, he said.

The Public-Private Joint Venture Act amendment will soon be in effect, allowing the project to be realised in five years, he added.

State Enterprise Policy and Planning Bureau 1 chief Poomsak Aranyakasemsuk said the 745km route would have 13 stations in 11 provinces. The ticket price would be Bt1,200-Bt1,500 with around 29,000 passengers expected per day initially, rising to 40,000 passengers later.

Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce chairman Narong Khongprasert said the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed train would bring economic, social and environmental benefits.

He said the province had 30,000 hotel rooms, attractions including the Night Safari, Royal Park Rajapreuk and International Convention and Exhibiton Centre, but didn't have an effective fuel-saving transport and logistics system.

This project will help to make Chiang Mai a hub in the Greater Mekong Sub-region, he said, adding that a suitable location for the station would be Saraphi district.

-- The Nation 2011-07-07

[mogoso]

Can you say cost overruns, lots of loose change in major projects

[thunder30101]

I dont care about high speed, I just want rail that doesnt throw me out of my seat !!! Fix what ya got first pinheads.

[virtualtraveller]

Sounds good, especially the bit to boost tourists to the city, though I'm not sure how that works when the cost of a seat is marginally less than a flight which takes 2 hours less.

Grandios plans indeed but aren't we missing something here; the SRT is already deeply in debt and always will be until you reform it, since it's clearly mis-management from top to bottom, any such project will just make it worse. Let's look at the airport rail link shall we?

[edgarfriendly]

pak chee roi naa!!

ef

[Nisa]

Is this going to be a 1-way only train?

[ginjag]

Is this going to be a 1-way only train?

Ha, daytime up nightime down.

This is fine a high speed line to Thaksin country ??? whatabout the Thaksin country that voted the family back??.............Yes Bkk-to korat -Khon Khen- Udon- Nong Khai , the 3 biggest cities next to Bkk.

I would have thought this link is far more important.incorporating major Cities. but issan now will not be important for 4 years.

[scorecard]

Can you say cost overruns, lots of loose change in major projects

Hope the people responsible for planning the airport express are not involved in the planning of this service.

[draftvader]

Can you say cost overruns, lots of loose change in major projects

Hope the people responsible for planning the airport express are not involved in the planning of this service.

They planned that? I'm shocked!

[ricku]

Sounds good, especially the bit to boost tourists to the city..

Sounds bad imo.

I prefer Chang Mai and Chang Rai peaceful and unspoiled by the tourist horde.

Edited July 7, 2011 by ricku

[Britannia]

29,000 travelers a day to Chiang mai raising up to 40,000 a day Wooooo

30,000 hotel rooms, where are they all going to go?

[malcy]

Unspoiled by the tourist horde ? Lmao

[afarang]

Is this going to be a 1-way only train?

Ha, daytime up nightime down.

This is fine a high speed line to Thaksin country ??? whatabout the Thaksin country that voted the family back??.............Yes Bkk-to korat -Khon Khen- Udon- Nong Khai , the 3 biggest cities next to Bkk.

I would have thought this link is far more important.incorporating major Cities. but issan now will not be important for 4 years.

In around '09, the talk was that China would build a high speed line from China through Laos. to Nong Khai to Bkk. to K.L. to Singapore.Linking Beijing to Singapore.I think that is still on the table. I did see a Chinese video of the proposed route,starting in China through Laos into Thailand,last year. Will it happen? difficult to say.

[HarrySeaman]

Let me see, 745 km in 3.5 hours = 213 kph. I don't think I want to travel at 213 kph on a 1 m wide railroad no matter what kind of train they have. The mode of travel would most likely be changed from train to air at the first corner.

"State Enterprise Policy and Planning Bureau 1 chief Poomsak Aranyakasemsuk said the 745km route would have 13 stations in 11 provinces."

3.5 hours = 210 minutes so for 13 stops they will have all of 16 minutes to go from a dead stop at one station, travel an average of 57 km to the next stop, stop the train, let passengers off, let passengers on, and start up again.

Yup, that sounds about right. Amazing Thailand!

[Bruce1]

The prediction of 29,000 a day sounds far-fetched, especially compared with flying. What will that do to Thai Air?

I wonder how a high-speed rail compares on the list of priorities for taking the LOS forwards. SUrely there would be more important issues to deal with.

How about opening up a land route through Laos to China? Surely a road would benefit transport and tourism more than a high speed rail line to Chiangmai?

I guess we can expect to see some big-ticket spending by this new government to divert attention from its other activities.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Bruce1

[ROMANOBA]

Ticket of 1500 bath? This is the price of a flight with Orientthai.Secondly most people taking the train now are tourists enjoying to SLEEP in the train, and they do not care how long is traveling time.Chiangmai is a tourist destination, not a business destination, so I do not see the need for a speed train between Bangkok and Chiangmai.They could IMPROVE quality and speed of the existing connections instead of daydreaming about populistic and useless projects...

I dont care about high speed, I just want rail that doesnt throw me out of my seat !!! Fix what ya got first pinheads.

[whybother]

In around '09, the talk was that China would build a high speed line from China through Laos. to Nong Khai to Bkk. to K.L. to Singapore.Linking Beijing to Singapore.I think that is still on the table. I did see a Chinese video of the proposed route,starting in China through Laos into Thailand,last year. Will it happen? difficult to say.

That was in the news in the last few months.

A high-speed train project, a planned joint investment project between Thailand and China, which will link between the Thai capital and Nong Khai province bordering Laos is expected to be completed in late 2015

http://thailand-business-news.com/investment/27607-thailand-china-high-speed-train-project-to-start-in-2011

[BigJohnnyBKK]

29,000 travelers a day to Chiang mai raising up to 40,000 a day Wooooo

30,000 hotel rooms, where are they all going to go?

The chain with the mystery deaths can open up a lot of beds very quickly and by then everyone will have forgotten. . .

[CantSpell]

Chiangmai is a tourist destination, not a business destination,

That was before.... Now it is aimed at becoming a Huuuuub....

Within the Greater Mekong Sub-region if you please....

Might even get a big tower Dubai style all painted in Red

[notime]

High Speed Train through Laos ... will the elephants be allowed on board?

The idea of going via Udon Thani, Nong Khai, Vientiane and Luang Prabang sounds stupid to me. Too many high mountains on the way! If it was to be built through Laos at all (I presume to avoid Vietnam) it would be geographically more viable to route the line just through small Northern part of Laos (near Chinese city of Mengla) and come up in around Chiang Kong near Chiang Rai in Thailand. From there it would be easier, cheaper and more commercially viable to run the line South possibly through Chiang Mai.

[Foggy Bottom]

Hmmm - apply some maths logic ...

29,000 passengers per day - assuming full both ways = 14,500 passengers each way.

The current 15 carriage Nakornping Special Express (the one that takes a gruelling 14 hours each way) carries roughly 1000 passengers (allowing for the difference between carriage classes).

On that basis, they are looking at roughly 15 to 20 trains per day, each way, which will make hopping a train to Chiang Mai as "convenient" as hopping a city centre bus. However, I also expect the number of stations means that each train would stop at different ones, not the whole list (as someone pointed out above - due to time drain) making the regular departures less regular for those not travelling the entire journey.

The next question though, would be whether they have factored in the budget for all that rolling stock?

[Tanaka]

Can you say cost overruns, lots of loose change in major projects

Hope the people responsible for planning the airport express are not involved in the planning of this service.

They planned that? I'm shocked!

Since when do Thais plan ahead?

[Tanaka]

Is this going to be a 1-way only train?

Ha, daytime up nightime down.

This is fine a high speed line to Thaksin country ??? whatabout the Thaksin country that voted the family back??.............Yes Bkk-to korat -Khon Khen- Udon- Nong Khai , the 3 biggest cities next to Bkk.

I would have thought this link is far more important.incorporating major Cities. but issan now will not be important for 4 years.

In around '09, the talk was that China would build a high speed line from China through Laos. to Nong Khai to Bkk. to K.L. to Singapore.Linking Beijing to Singapore.I think that is still on the table. I did see a Chinese video of the proposed route,starting in China through Laos into Thailand,last year. Will it happen? difficult to say.

China runs a different rail width than Lao and Thailand, 1435mm compared to 1000mm. There are of course solutions to that problem but it does not make it easier. 1435 is regarded as standard width internationally and TGV trains are not run on narrower tracks than that.

If they intend to run a TGV on 1000mm track, I for sure am not going on it.

[dcutman]

, won't cause environmental impacts because its one-metre-wide railway will be built in parallel with the existing railway, he said.

I can asume by this statement there will be no impact studies done.

Is it just me, or could there be a small issue with a train running at 250kmh through city's and villiages.

Also, with my travels around Thailand, I have seen many rather tight turns in the existing tracks. Again at 250 kmh and running parallel with existing tracks, even if the train could stay on the tracks, I would think this would cause some uncomfortable G forces to the passengers.

Edited July 7, 2011 by dcutman

[noahvail]

, won't cause environmental impacts because its one-metre-wide railway will be built in parallel with the existing railway, he said.

I can aaume by this statement there will be no impact studies done.

Is it just me, or could there be a small issue with a train running at 250kmh through city's and villiages.

Good points. Perhaps an elevated mag-lev bullet train could do it. Of course, you'd probably go from 10 billion to upwards of 100 billion, but hey, more to share!

[TheWalkingMan]

I checked and the Japanese high speed train holds about 1,300 people. 29,000 people / 1,300 is about 22 trains up to Chiang Mai per day. That sounds like a full schedule with packed trains on each run. Are there a lot of business travelers between Bangkok and Chiang Mai?

TheWalkingMan

[ratcatcher]

HST rail systems are usually built in countries where there are many important cities; Japan, France, Germany,U.K. and China etc.

Business people usually fly, and cities like Chiang Mai are tourist as opposed to industrial oriented.

Fact is, China wants a link with Singapore, the Asian gateway to Europe, Africa & India. Thailand & Laos & Malaysia just happen to be in the way. Any serious talk of an Andaman seaport in Burma's peninsula would be strongly opposed by Singapore.

As one poster pointed out, tourists traveling on the quaint S.R.T. from Bangkok to Chiang Mai don't care about speed as they get to sleep on board for a few hours.

Someone plans on making a killing if this gets off the drawing board.

[endure]

Sounds good, especially the bit to boost tourists to the city, though I'm not sure how that works when the cost of a seat is marginally less than a flight which takes 2 hours less.

By the time you've got to the airport and checked in there's probably little time difference.

[wlcart]

Let me see, 745 km in 3.5 hours = 213 kph. I don't think I want to travel at 213 kph on a 1 m wide railroad no matter what kind of train they have. The mode of travel would most likely be changed from train to air at the first corner.

"State Enterprise Policy and Planning Bureau 1 chief Poomsak Aranyakasemsuk said the 745km route would have 13 stations in 11 provinces."

3.5 hours = 210 minutes so for 13 stops they will have all of 16 minutes to go from a dead stop at one station, travel an average of 57 km to the next stop, stop the train, let passengers off, let passengers on, and start up again.

Yup, that sounds about right. Amazing Thailand!

I think they do not let facts and figures get in the way of the truth.

[dcutman]

State Enterprise Policy and Planning Bureau 1 chief Poomsak Aranyakasemsuk said the 745km route would have 13 stations in 11 provinces. The ticket price would be Bt1,200-Bt1,500 with around 29,000 passengers expected per day initially, rising to 40,000 passengers later.

10,585,000 people, initially, are going to get on this train a year, and as things ramp up 14,600,000 passengers will board this train a year. With the ticket prices quoted, I dont think there are going to be all that many Thai's on this train.

I think they might be just slightly over estimating the passenger loads.

Visitors to Thailand last year 15 million

visitors to CM last year little over 1 million

Edited July 7, 2011 by dcutman