Now Divorced

[denz2601]

hello again,as before but in more detail,i was married to a thai girl for 5 years up until 2 weeks ago when we got divorced,i have a house worth 5 million baht.we both agreed prior to the divorce that i would give her 500.000 baht,half million.so i got a solicitor and me and my ex both agreed that after i paid her that she can not ask me for more money or anything,so we wrote up a proper statement saying this signed by both of us and my solictor,now the tricky bit,the house was bought in installments until completion and most of the payments were paid from her bank account by cheque in her name,so basicly the house was in her name,until the last payment of 1 million baht which i paid and at the same time transfered the house into a company name,without her knowing or signing anything????so know the house is in a company name,thinking about to sell?we are divorced and i have documents signed by her that she does not want anything after i paid her 500,000 baht.which i gave her

but now she claims that she wants more money as i transferd the house ito the company name without her consent.

will she get anything now if she takes me to court???????

[paulfr]

Wow .... you better get the best lawyer you can find.

Farang man and Thai woman in a Thai court ? Strike one.

Unless her lawyer is asleep, they will make it look like you tried to deceive her ... which is fraud .... and you could get hit with anything by the judge. Strike two.

If I were you, I would consider offering her a settlement out of court for say 1MTHB (starting at 500K and going up to if necessary) ... cheaper than the 2.5MTHB which would be her half of the house before any punitive penalties the judge might award.

If she is a bulldog and insists on her day in court, you better pray or leave the country for good. Unless of course, 5MTHB is pocket change for you.

Good luck

[chiangrai57020]

The House I Built! Some people will never learn - or at least learn the hard way. I have read many postings where the 'farang' is paying many millions of baht for a home. Nice if you have it.

But has anyone considered building or buying the cheapest house that will keep the 'farang' comfortable? I spent approx. 500,000 for my house and 'was' quite comfortable in it.

Beware, there are lots and lots of 'greedy' women out there! Why do 2-people need more than 2 bedrooms! Build cheap and you can walk away - 'Happy'!

[Stocky]

The House I Built!  Some people will never learn - or at least learn the hard way.  I have read many postings where the 'farang' is paying many millions of baht for a home.  Nice if you have it. 

But has anyone considered building or buying the cheapest house that will keep the 'farang' comfortable?  I spent approx. 500,000 for my house and 'was' quite comfortable in it. 

Beware, there are lots and lots of 'greedy' women out there!  Why do 2-people need more than 2 bedrooms!  Build cheap and you can walk away - 'Happy'!

Rent - it's even cheaper!

[Thaipwriter]

You say you transferred the house from "her name" without her knowing, to a company name.

How did you do this? this you forge her signature?

or are you saying that the title of the house remained with the developer UNTIL IT WAS PAID IN FULL.

The latter is more likely, the developer allowed you to transfer ownership to the company as he does not care where the money came from...either your pocket or hers(unlikely). just because the money was tranferred from her account does not make it her home...not until she has the title....which she does not.

So you have a house in a company name: good move as long as you are doing your monthly vat and audits and "trading" properly in the eye of Thai law.

she may be entitled to 50% of the house if she takes you to court.

tell her that you will give her another 200,000 if she is prepared to stay out of the courts.....delay for as long as you can and sell the house and then disapear.

then rent a new girlfriend and rent a new house (Khun Larry circa2005)

[Thetyim]

i have documents signed by her that she does not want anything after i paid her 500,000 baht.which i gave her

If this is a legally binding document then I fail to see how she can get more by going to court.

I assume you have no children and not forged her signature.

Call her bluff, don't pay

By the way, if your solicitor did not ask about the house then he is crap.

Edited October 22, 2005 by Thetyim

[chiangrai57020]

A word to the wise! NO 'FOREIGNER' will have have his or her day in court. And as far as getting any sympathy from a Thai court - FORGET IT - It will never happen.

I recently read several case studies (copyright: Jeffrey Rice, Phd) involving land and property disbutes between 'Farang' and Thai co-owners. You would not believe the manipulations, falsifications of documents, false testimony, etc. etc. that goes on between the 'Thai people' and courts in these cases.

A 'foreigner' DOES NOT stand a chance in the Thai court system. I also have very serious doubts that ANY lease agreement, 2 or 30 years, with a 'Thai' would hold 'any water' if the Thai decided to take it to court.

Again - For all those 'Farang' that are reading the postings to TV - If you remember nothing at all - Remember This - The day you arrive in Thailand YOUR assets (100%) will belong to your Thai GF/Wife/etc. No amount of legal documentation will protect anything 'You Think You Own'. In Thailand you own nothing (0%).

As I stated previously in other postings. If you are going to build that 'million' baht mansion on your Thai friends 'Owned' land, YOU have just 'kissed' your money GOODBYE.

Oh! But 'SHE' loves me, you say! Today maybe, Tomorrow Who Knows! JUST be prepared to Walk 'when' that time comes. And from what I have read and heard THAT TIME will come for a very large percentage of us.

I am not a lawyer, but I do have a capacity to read (both the written word and the unspoken 'or between the lines' words) and analyze what I read and hear.

[Thaipwriter]

Again - For all those 'Farang' that are reading the postings to TV - If you remember nothing at all - Remember This - The day you arrive in Thailand YOUR assets (100%) will belong to your Thai GF/Wife/etc.  No amount of legal documentation will protect anything 'You Think You Own'.  In Thailand you own nothing (0%).

My assetts in Thailand:

motorci: in my name

car: my name in the blue book

house: in company name, girlfriend is not even a shareholder.

cash: in bank account in my name.

I firmly believe that everything above cannot be taken by my girlfriend. I will never marry her.

So i have quite a few assets that i own 100%

there are hundreds of others who are in the same position as me.

I think your entire post is rubbish!

[chiangrai57020]

Again - For all those 'Farang' that are reading the postings to TV - If you remember nothing at all - Remember This - The day you arrive in Thailand YOUR assets (100%) will belong to your Thai GF/Wife/etc.  No amount of legal documentation will protect anything 'You Think You Own'.  In Thailand you own nothing (0%).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My assetts in Thailand:

motorci: in my name

car: my name in the blue book

house: in company name, girlfriend is not even a shareholder.

cash: in bank account in my name.

I firmly believe that everything above cannot be taken by my girlfriend. I will never marry her.

So i have quite a few assets that i own 100%

there are hundreds of others who are in the same position as me.

I think your entire post is rubbish!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you took the time to read the case studies I mentioned I doubt that you would call what I wrote as rubbish.

A foreigner, in the same position as yourself lost everything he had because some folks played with all the paperwork that originally formed the business.

Good luck.

[quiggs]

If you are married to a Thai woman, and mutually decide to divorce, do you split all Thai assets 50/50? This assuming they were aquired together.

I realize the car and house are in her name, but, her name is your name no? I am confused.

Again - For all those 'Farang' that are reading the postings to TV - If you remember nothing at all - Remember This - The day you arrive in Thailand YOUR assets (100%) will belong to your Thai GF/Wife/etc.  No amount of legal documentation will protect anything 'You Think You Own'.  In Thailand you own nothing (0%).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My assetts in Thailand:

motorci: in my name

car: my name in the blue book

house: in company name, girlfriend is not even a shareholder.

cash: in bank account in my name.

I firmly believe that everything above cannot be taken by my girlfriend. I will never marry her.

So i have quite a few assets that i own 100%

there are hundreds of others who are in the same position as me.

I think your entire post is rubbish!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you took the time to read the case studies I mentioned I doubt that you would call what I wrote as rubbish.

A foreigner, in the same position as yourself lost everything he had because some folks played with all the paperwork that originally formed the business.

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[chiangrai57020]

If you are married to a Thai woman, and mutually decide to divorce, do you split all Thai assets 50/50? This assuming they were aquired together.

I realize the car and house are in her name, but, her name is your name no? I am confused.

Again - For all those 'Farang' that are reading the postings to TV - If you remember nothing at all - Remember This - The day you arrive in Thailand YOUR assets (100%) will belong to your Thai GF/Wife/etc.  No amount of legal documentation will protect anything 'You Think You Own'.  In Thailand you own nothing (0%).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My assetts in Thailand:

motorci: in my name

car: my name in the blue book

house: in company name, girlfriend is not even a shareholder.

cash: in bank account in my name.

I firmly believe that everything above cannot be taken by my girlfriend. I will never marry her.

So i have quite a few assets that i own 100%

there are hundreds of others who are in the same position as me.

I think your entire post is rubbish!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you took the time to read the case studies I mentioned I doubt that you would call what I wrote as rubbish.

A foreigner, in the same position as yourself lost everything he had because some folks played with all the paperwork that originally formed the business.

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is my take on 50/50 divorce - for what's it worth!

IF you and the wife can agree in Writing - a legal document drawn up by a lawyer - then you do stand a chance of retaining your 50%. BUT if the wife does not want to sign a legal document BEFORE going to court then you will loose everything. The court will side with the Thai in 'every case'. This is my personal opinion.

I went through a divorce in Thailand. The legal document when drawn up is always to the benefit of the Thai spouse. I was specifically asked what I wanted. I stated I would like to have my 50% of the cash for the car that my wife sold. "Can't do that!" (Lawyer). I would like the wife to sell the house and give me 50% of the proceeds. "Can't do that!" (Lawyer). That was all I had so I said, OK let's go to court and get over with - She can have everything - BIG Smile on the Lawyers face. He knew as well as me that you cannot fight for what is yours in a Thai court.

Good Luck

[steveromagnino]

Chiangrai

I am sorry things didn't work out, but your sample of one is not exactly convincing. There are many ways a foreigner can win in a Thai court, if they do their homework; sadly most do not have a good knowledge of the court system; may not have been to court before; do not get a good lawyer, and also cannot read most of the documentation themselves. It also doesn't help that so many foreigners here (particularly farang foreigners) have discrepancies in their work papers which come back to bite them when they go to court (no work permit, ongoing tourist visas for 3 years, etc).

I would therefore point out that your post, while a useful reminder of the dangers of going to court, is not the be-all and end-all.

To the posters who claim matrimonial property sharing 50:50; generally this would apply EXCEPT in the case of matrimonial property which involves land, where the land cannot be owned by a foreigner, and therefore all ownership resides with the Thai partner at all times; therefore it cannot be calculated as "half of the total settlement, so I'll take the car instead"; the land (and usually what is on it unless spelt out expressly via some other documentation) belongs exclusively to the Thai partner no matter who paid for it. Therefore her name = ner name only. You have no claim on the house and land at all, unless you have expressly stated some claim on the house alone, but of course what are you going to do; move it?

Cars and the like are all up for grabs; preparation and a good papertrail help win cases.

Of course, for property, a company owned property would solve that, or some sort of trust structure if there were kids; that sort of thing. Sadly, most of the time that the legal bit is needed is when there are problems, and the time it needed to be signed and sorted was when everything was roses and petals and little nice smelly bits of flower in those bowls.

I deal with legal disputes with our clients all the time (I am not a lawyer) and I would definitely say that as the 1/2 Thai 1/2 foreign party, we run about even with both fully Thai, fully foreign, and partly Thai/partly foreign parties that we deal with.

[chiangrai57020]

Chiangrai

I am sorry things didn't work out, but your sample of one is not exactly convincing.  There are many ways a foreigner can win in a Thai court, if they do their homework; sadly most do not have a good knowledge of the court system; may not have been to court before; do not get a good lawyer, and also cannot read most of the documentation themselves.  It also doesn't help that so many foreigners here (particularly farang foreigners) have discrepancies in their work papers which come back to bite them when they go to court (no work permit, ongoing tourist visas for 3 years, etc).

I would therefore point out that your post, while a useful reminder of the dangers of going to court, is not the be-all and end-all.

To the posters who claim matrimonial property sharing 50:50; generally this would apply EXCEPT in the case of matrimonial property which involves land, where the land cannot be owned by a foreigner, and therefore all ownership resides with the Thai partner at all times; therefore it cannot be calculated as "half of the total settlement, so I'll take the car instead"; the land (and usually what is on it unless spelt out expressly via some other documentation) belongs exclusively to the Thai partner no matter who paid for it.  Therefore her name = ner name only.  You have no claim on the house and land at all, unless you have expressly stated some claim on the house alone, but of course what are you going to do; move it?

Cars and the like are all up for grabs; preparation and a good papertrail help win cases.

Of course, for property, a company owned property would solve that, or some sort of trust structure if there were kids; that sort of thing.  Sadly, most of the time that the legal bit is needed is when there are problems, and the time it needed to be signed and sorted was when everything was roses and petals and little nice smelly bits of flower in those bowls.

I deal with legal disputes with our clients all the time (I am not a lawyer) and I would definitely say that as the 1/2 Thai 1/2 foreign party, we run about even with both fully Thai, fully foreign, and partly Thai/partly foreign parties that we deal with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not upset in the least about the divorce or what I lost. What I lost is 'peanuts' compared to what I would have lost in the USA.

Presently in another relationship - not married. It seems that in Thailand even if you go thru the ceromony with a Non-Thai resident that you are not legally married UNLESS you register the marraige at the District Office. Because she is Not Thai I cannot register!

We are attempting to purchase land using her 8 year old son (a Thai by birth) - complicated. If that does not work we will use her cousin who resides in Taiwan - also complicated. I want a house (Period). And I do not care if I loose it. I am trying to protect the 'wife'.

We will go the legal (lawyer) route to accomplich the necessary documentation BUT I have my doubts about documentation prepared locally. No English translations!

I have tried, many times, through correspondence to Bangkok lawyers (firms) without success. So I am left with the 'hope' that we will have some type of 'security' through the 30 year lease route.

I agree with you regarding the 50-50 split but you have to have 'excellant' paper work drawn initially which is not very likely here in Chiangrai.

Thanks for your comments.

[hunglikea]

Chiangrai

I am sorry things didn't work out, but your sample of one is not exactly convincing. There are many ways a foreigner can win in a Thai court, if they do their homework; sadly most do not have a good knowledge of the court system; may not have been to court before; do not get a good lawyer, and also cannot read most of the documentation themselves. It also doesn't help that so many foreigners here (particularly farang foreigners) have discrepancies in their work papers which come back to bite them when they go to court (no work permit, ongoing tourist visas for 3 years, etc).

I would therefore point out that your post, while a useful reminder of the dangers of going to court, is not the be-all and end-all.

To the posters who claim matrimonial property sharing 50:50; generally this would apply EXCEPT in the case of matrimonial property which involves land, where the land cannot be owned by a foreigner, and therefore all ownership resides with the Thai partner at all times; therefore it cannot be calculated as "half of the total settlement, so I'll take the car instead"; the land (and usually what is on it unless spelt out expressly via some other documentation) belongs exclusively to the Thai partner no matter who paid for it. Therefore her name = ner name only. You have no claim on the house and land at all, unless you have expressly stated some claim on the house alone, but of course what are you going to do; move it?

Just a thought but if you are divorced what happens to your 'O' visa if it is for 'support'?

Cars and the like are all up for grabs; preparation and a good papertrail help win cases.

Of course, for property, a company owned property would solve that, or some sort of trust structure if there were kids; that sort of thing. Sadly, most of the time that the legal bit is needed is when there are problems, and the time it needed to be signed and sorted was when everything was roses and petals and little nice smelly bits of flower in those bowls.

I deal with legal disputes with our clients all the time (I am not a lawyer) and I would definitely say that as the 1/2 Thai 1/2 foreign party, we run about even with both fully Thai, fully foreign, and partly Thai/partly foreign parties that we deal with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not upset in the least about the divorce or what I lost. What I lost is 'peanuts' compared to what I would have lost in the USA.

Presently in another relationship - not married. It seems that in Thailand even if you go thru the ceromony with a Non-Thai resident that you are not legally married UNLESS you register the marraige at the District Office. Because she is Not Thai I cannot register!

We are attempting to purchase land using her 8 year old son (a Thai by birth) - complicated. If that does not work we will use her cousin who resides in Taiwan - also complicated. I want a house (Period). And I do not care if I loose it. I am trying to protect the 'wife'.

We will go the legal (lawyer) route to accomplich the necessary documentation BUT I have my doubts about documentation prepared locally. No English translations!

I have tried, many times, through correspondence to Bangkok lawyers (firms) without success. So I am left with the 'hope' that we will have some type of 'security' through the 30 year lease route.

I agree with you regarding the 50-50 split but you have to have 'excellant' paper work drawn initially which is not very likely here in Chiangrai.

Thanks for your comments.

[hunglikea]

Chiangrai

I am sorry things didn't work out, but your sample of one is not exactly convincing. There are many ways a foreigner can win in a Thai court, if they do their homework; sadly most do not have a good knowledge of the court system; may not have been to court before; do not get a good lawyer, and also cannot read most of the documentation themselves. It also doesn't help that so many foreigners here (particularly farang foreigners) have discrepancies in their work papers which come back to bite them when they go to court (no work permit, ongoing tourist visas for 3 years, etc).

I would therefore point out that your post, while a useful reminder of the dangers of going to court, is not the be-all and end-all.

To the posters who claim matrimonial property sharing 50:50; generally this would apply EXCEPT in the case of matrimonial property which involves land, where the land cannot be owned by a foreigner, and therefore all ownership resides with the Thai partner at all times; therefore it cannot be calculated as "half of the total settlement, so I'll take the car instead"; the land (and usually what is on it unless spelt out expressly via some other documentation) belongs exclusively to the Thai partner no matter who paid for it. Therefore her name = ner name only. You have no claim on the house and land at all, unless you have expressly stated some claim on the house alone, but of course what are you going to do; move it?

Just a thought but if you are divorced what happens to your 'O' visa if it is for 'support'?

Cars and the like are all up for grabs; preparation and a good papertrail help win cases.

Of course, for property, a company owned property would solve that, or some sort of trust structure if there were kids; that sort of thing. Sadly, most of the time that the legal bit is needed is when there are problems, and the time it needed to be signed and sorted was when everything was roses and petals and little nice smelly bits of flower in those bowls.

I deal with legal disputes with our clients all the time (I am not a lawyer) and I would definitely say that as the 1/2 Thai 1/2 foreign party, we run about even with both fully Thai, fully foreign, and partly Thai/partly foreign parties that we deal with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not upset in the least about the divorce or what I lost. What I lost is 'peanuts' compared to what I would have lost in the USA.

Presently in another relationship - not married. It seems that in Thailand even if you go thru the ceromony with a Non-Thai resident that you are not legally married UNLESS you register the marraige at the District Office. Because she is Not Thai I cannot register!

We are attempting to purchase land using her 8 year old son (a Thai by birth) - complicated. If that does not work we will use her cousin who resides in Taiwan - also complicated. I want a house (Period). And I do not care if I loose it. I am trying to protect the 'wife'.

We will go the legal (lawyer) route to accomplich the necessary documentation BUT I have my doubts about documentation prepared locally. No English translations!

I have tried, many times, through correspondence to Bangkok lawyers (firms) without success. So I am left with the 'hope' that we will have some type of 'security' through the 30 year lease route.

I agree with you regarding the 50-50 split but you have to have 'excellant' paper work drawn initially which is not very likely here in Chiangrai.

Thanks for your comments.

Just a thought but if you are divorced what happens to your 'O' visa if it is for 'support'?

[timber]

I have had a lot of experience in a variety of situations in this life. I can't remember saying someones opinion or comment were rubbish. It may show ignorance or lack of thought and there are a lot of alternatives to how things are done. I have learned from this post so I have gained.

[rishi]

To the posters who claim matrimonial property sharing 50:50; generally this would apply EXCEPT in the case of matrimonial property which involves land, where the land cannot be owned by a foreigner, and therefore all ownership resides with the Thai partner at all times; therefore it cannot be calculated as "half of the total settlement, so I'll take the car instead"; the land (and usually what is on it unless spelt out expressly via some other documentation) belongs exclusively to the Thai partner no matter who paid for it. Therefore her name = ner name only. You have no claim on the house and land at all, unless you have expressly stated some claim on the house alone, but of course what are you going to do; move it?

Could you - or somebody else - evolve a bit on this. I am particularly interested in what exactly to do with respect to the documentation mentioned in: "the land (and usually what is on it unless spelt out expressly via some other documentation) belongs exclusively to the Thai partner".