Thai Immigration Crackdown On Ed Visas

[george]

New, Major Visa Requirements - Education “Ed” Visas Holders Must Attend Classes

By VISITH PINPAWONG

According to the Deputy Director, the Thailand Ministry of Education is warning all schools who offer Education Visas to foreigners to be legitimate and make sure students adhere to attendance and testing requirements.

At the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting on Sunday, Immigration Volunteer and former British Consul Barry Kenyan stated the problem with Education visas as he observed it first-hand in the local Immigration office on Jomtien Beach Road, Soi 5.

“A guy came in and wanted to renew his Education visa for a 7th straight year. He waited in the queue and when it was his turn he sat at the Immigration officer’s desk in charge of Education Visas. He had all of his documents from the school. His application was completed and he had the two photos now required for any visa. So the officer looked at him and said, ‘You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right?’ The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, ‘The big fish eat the little fish.” The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped “CANCELLED” on the remaining portion of the current visa and told the fellow he would not again receive an Education visa,” Barry reported.

The Deputy Director of the Thailand Ministry of Education recently summoned all language schools’ owners in Pattaya along with senior Chonburi Immigration Police Investigators to address this issue and notify the schools of the crackdown.

“Now any school found to be selling the Education visa simply to allow the foreigner to stay in Thailand and not attending the school will be closed down and lose their license. All of the school’s students, whether attending or not, will have their visas cancelled,” the representative of the Ministry of Education stated.

Going to school and learning Thai is one option for people to "long stay" in the Kingdom without having to constantly do "border runs." It is especially popular with those who can self-fund themselves living here and do not need to work but are not yet 50 years of age thus not being able to qualify for a Retirement Visa. A Pattaya Times undercover investigation has discovered that some schools are selling discounted "courses" where the "student" pays a reduced fee that gets them a visa but they have no intention of ever attending a class.

Every school in Pattaya has a maximum allocated student base dependent on classroom availability. One school in particular was named and shamed. The school in question has a maximum capacity of 160 students based on if the classrooms were full every minute of every day. Most schools have 40% of students sign up for second and third years, thus reducing the capacity of the school of new students in the second year by 40%. In the case of the capacity of the school above reducing the intake of new students to 96.

The education department in very strong language asked the particular school if they thought the education department was foolish and if they do not keep records. In the last three months this school had new sign ups of 80 students and was asked where they sit their students and where are the three extra classrooms they would require to cope with this over capacity. Even if the school opened all night they still would not be able to facilitate all the students.

It has also come to the notice of the Education Department that a lot of schools are using teachers to teach Thai who are not educated to Degree standard and they have warned this must stop.

Pol. Capt. Samruai Sa-Mann from Chonburi Immigration police then told all the schools that five foreign nationals are now working undercover on behalf of immigration trying to buy the visa from schools without attending classes.

He added, the schools will be prosecuted if the undercover investigators gather evidence of such practices.

They are also to investigate visa shops who are offering the Ed Visa and law firms who offer the Ed Visa as it is only registered schools who can offer these visas, Deputy Inspector Samruai said.

The Police Captain also added that it had also come to his attention that some schools were using foreign nationals teaching without work permits. Recently two Pattaya schools have been raided by his officers.

"If we catch teachers working in schools without a work permit, we will recommend to the Education Department that these offending schools should be closed. We will also be calling all people who advertise language lessons with a visa. We will book some lessons and on arrival we will be asking for work permits of people who we believe are working without work permits," said Pol. Capt. Samruai Sa-Mann from Chonburi Immigration.

-- Pattaya Times 2011-07-07

[Richard4849]

About time!

[LivinLOS]

While I fully support closing a loophole that allows abuse.. It also has to be said that this cannot be on some arbitrary whim of a desk officer with no grading, assessment, appeal, or standardization. As of course the next thing is all ED visa people will need to pay a small fee, to administer the test (and ensure a pass).

Put in place controls, sure, but clear and transparent controls.

[TAWP]

The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, ‘The big fish eat the little fish.” The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped “CANCELLED” on the remaining portion of the current visa and told the fellow he would not again receive an Education visa,” Barry reported.

Hahaha - who said they didn't have a sense of humor?

[SAffer]

I have been using an ED visa for the past 5 years, but I will graduate this year.

I have a high GPA, and am on the Dean's List.

I used to work part-time as a teacher.

I think it is silly, not to allow real students to work at all.

[ronthai]

Well good thing to do. Just hope that my school is 100% legit.

I think they are, because they actually advertise at (outside) Pattaya immigration.

[Thailand4life]

Walen is not affected by this or? Do those Skype students need to attend the classrooms now too?

[themana]

What impact would this have on folks attending classes at a distance via online methods, as some schools allow for? Guess as long as they're attending the classes, it doesn't matter the means by which they are attending, no?

[naiharn]

"A guy came in and wanted to renew his Education visa for a 7th straight year. .. So the officer looked at him and said, 'You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right?' The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, 'The big fish eat the little fish." The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped "CANCELLED" on the remaining portion of the current visa

Gee, that sounds terribly unfair! Maybe this guy was just a slow leaner!

Like this lass:

http://www.japanprob...udying-english/

[jamora]

Great news! But they should have done it years ago!

Even though these "students" can take care of them self, it shows clearly that they do not wish to integrate themselves. If you do not have sufficient qualifications to get a job in a foreign country and you are not retired, the least you can do is to learn the language, integrate yourself and then try to positively contribute to the society. Those who just want to be here without doing anything, should not be here!

[JudgeDredd555]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

[Gik]

Great news! But they should have done it years ago!

Even though these "students" can take care of them self, it shows clearly that they do not wish to integrate themselves. If you do not have sufficient qualifications to get a job in a foreign country and you are not retired, the least you can do is to learn the language, integrate yourself and then try to positively contribute to the society. Those who just want to be here without doing anything, should not be here!

Are you sure you are talking about pattaya?

What about schools in other regions will be there crackdown too? or it is pattaya immigration initiative only?

Edited July 7, 2011 by Gik

[maapaa]

..... So the officer looked at him and said, 'You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right?' The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, 'The big fish eat the little fish." The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped "CANCELLED"

Oh how funny - oh how good and right this was!!! Once again I will get many angry answers to my statement - but I don't care.

There is a real need of much more, sufficient controls towards all those "visa-gangsters". Not attending 80% of the lessons, not passing two tests each term - kick them out of here.

Well done! Go ahaed with that strict policy.

This is not sarcastic, not ironoc. It's my honest opinion.

And: I am not over a certain age to retire. I don't have enough money to stay here without doing anything than hanging around. I am working for my money and for my visa.

Edited July 7, 2011 by maapaa

[LTGTR]

Who cares?

[Mario2008]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

I believe they are cheering a ckrack-down of abuse of the ED-visa system, not a crack-down on ED-visas itself.

[ronthai]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Thank you nice complement. Thank god I am not here for the same reason as you.

[Gik]

I believe they are cheering a ckrack-down of abuse of the ED-visa system

Why? How exactly this crackdown supposed to improve their lives?

[Mario2008]

The article talks about Pattaya, but the person from the ministry of education speaks about nation wide.

But if you study and attend your lessons, you have nothing to fear. It is an action against ghost students and working without a work permit.

[JudgeDredd555]

Yeah, I realise what they are cheering about, I just wonder why? Do they derive some kind of sick pleasure from this?

I mean seriously, why should they give a ****? I myself am one of these 'abusers' but I don't see why these people are cheering the fact I may have to leave the country. I am not someone who regularly goes out trolling round bars in Pattaya or Nana or wherever - I stay at home with my gf, and I conrtibute a LOT to Thai societ by paying for her education! And I help her parents. My problem is I'm a freelancer, I work online so I can't get any kind of working visa.

Oh, and by the way. I speak Thai quite well already thank you. I certainly don't need to waste my time at these crappy lessons they have at most of the Thai language schools.. Perhaps some of you guys should try attending a class before you go slating those of us who try to avoid them!

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

I believe they are cheering a ckrack-down of abuse of the ED-visa system, not a crack-down on ED-visas itself.

[makescents]

If you've been living in Thailand how do you not understand such a simple phrase?

Should be deported for stupidity.

[jfchandler]

So if the guy in Barry's story actually understood what the officer was saying in Thai about the big fish eating the little fish, would he have gotten another year's ED visa? I certainly hope so....

[TheGhostWithin]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Fully agree with you here - the fact that people are doing this, is only a symptom of a problem.

There are people, wealthy enough to fund a lifestyle WITHOUT working, or at least work over the phone/internet or run their own business and can do so from Thailand (servicing customers in their home countries), whom are under 45, or whatever the Non B retirement visa requirement for age is. Thailand does not understand, that in many western countries having a degree is not automatic - it is actually a huge challenge both financially and academically to graduate. In my country (New Zealand), only 25% of the population have a bachelors degree, 10% have a masters degree, and 4% have a PHd. We cannot buy degrees, or fake test scores unlike certain universities in Thailand have been caught doing, and some of my friends have taken advantage of to come here to NZ on.

I have worked since I was 15 years old, and am in the top 10% of earners in my country - I have no degree. Why? My parents abandoned me at a young age, and it would cost me more to stop working and graduate, than to continue what I am doing until I am 45 and quality for the retirement visa. If it is not 45, I know it is in the Phils.

Just like Thai doctors (another issue), stop attacking the symptoms, understand the cause and fix it. The cause is, you do not offer a long term opportunity for financially well off earners under 45 to remain in Thailand 100% legally more than the tourist visa will allow them to. Fix it?

[JudgeDredd555]

And so what is your reason for being here exactly?

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

Thank you nice complement. Thank god I am not here for the same reason as you.

[wandrinstar]

What do they support them self with,if they cant afford a Visa. U.K. Disablement handouts seem to be fav with the Patts Bar Propers.How so many have bad backs is Mystery.

[MaxYakov]

The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, 'The big fish eat the little fish." The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped "CANCELLED" on the remaining portion of the current visa and told the fellow he would not again receive an Education visa," Barry reported.

Hahaha - who said they didn't have a sense of humor?

A twisted sense of humor would to have stated that the applicant was obviously over-educated (or unteachable) after 6 years and (either way) should start teaching the Thai language by finding a job and applying for a work-permit visa.:jap:

[MacWalen]

Walen is not affected by this or? Do those Skype students need to attend the classrooms now too?

The issue seems to be that the guy was with the guy not being able to speak Thai at a very basic level. Pla yay geen pla lek. So super easy. If you learn online you do actually attend a class, and many students do not learn online because they need visa, this is one of the way we teach. If there is a problem with this kind of visa it will be because people like this.

The moral of the story is learn some Thai, at least at a basic level. It needs to be evident that you go to school and learn. He did not ask him to translate passages from Shakespeare into Thai, did he?

Edited July 7, 2011 by MacWalen

[WeeGB]

If anyone can supply information on a REPUTABLE Thai language school, that doesa a distance learning course, I'd be grateful. As for the topic, som nam na, no excuses, if the visa is to enable someone to learn Thai, then they should make every effort to learn. If a retiree turns up with 100 baht less in the bank than they're supposed to have, he'd be refused a visa, so why should other visa holders be exempt from what are, after all, clearly written rules.

[renaissanc]

I've been living in Thailand since 1984. It used to be very simple to renew the annual visa based on marriage. Now the process requires quite a few more documents and photos. I think it is because of the many foreigners who find illegal ways to stay in the country. Each new scam makes Immigration add another regulation. Am I against the scams? ... Yes, I am, for this reason.

[kuffki]

while i see the mentality behind it all, i also strongly disagree.

In my personal experience, i have attended a well known school for a full year and found not even 1 teacher was actually a qualified teacher. None of the people in the class were able to converse in Thai and thats after 1 year or learning.

Some guys were in their second year and were attending every class.

So yes there are a number of people who use ED visa just to stay, but there is also a huge number of people who actually want to learn but unable to do so because schools employ unskilled labor.

One of my friends had a similar situation in immigration, but officer demanded he sing Thai national anthem.

Also in my experience, officer spoke Isaan to me rather than Thai, officer spoke very fast and shortened many words. Those so called tests are done in the open with noise coming from all directions making very hard to concentrate.

So i would personally like to see if they do crack down, they also crack down on schools not providing proper education and conduct tests in appropriate environment.

PS. If anyone actually looks at the books at some schools, you may find that the words you learn are rather useless and very possible not to know words like big fish eat small fish.

Edited July 7, 2011 by kuffki

[MacWalen]

If anyone can supply information on a REPUTABLE Thai language school, that doesa a distance learning course, I'd be grateful. As for the topic, som nam na, no excuses, if the visa is to enable someone to learn Thai, then they should make every effort to learn. If a retiree turns up with 100 baht less in the bank than they're supposed to have, he'd be refused a visa, so why should other visa holders be exempt from what are, after all, clearly written rules.

Walen is teaching online and we are certainly the best known Thai school in Thailand, some critics may not as say we are reputable but great many students are happy with our teaching and teachers.

Walen School -teaching online