Jailed Foreigner: Checking In To Bangkok Hilton

[george]

Checking in to the Bangkok Hilton

BANGKOK: -- Visiting just one of the thousands of Britons jailed abroad can be an enriching experience for both of you, as James Hopkirk discovered

I didn't know how I would recognise David. As the prisoners filed out of their cells and into the visitors' compound I tried to make eye contact with any westerners as they shuffled past my window. Eventually a balding, middle-aged man pulled up a chair in front of me, picked up the telephone and introduced himself. We didn't know each other, and until a few minutes before he didn't even know he had a visitor. We were meeting for the first time through reinforced glass at Bangkok's Bangkwang prison.

David is one of more than 2,500 Britons in foreign jails and for him, like many others, visits from tourists and expats constitute much of the contact he has with the outside world.

It wouldn't occur to most holidaymakers that they could make such a visit, much less that they might be welcome. I discovered it only by chance in a guide book. When I contacted the British embassy in Bangkok I learnt that they always need more visitors. After a brief interview I was allocated one of the prisoners

I was nervous that the whole thing might be a fiasco. But after a few minutes of stilted civilities I felt David drop his guard and he started to do most of the talking. I didn't want to ask him personal questions and he didn't volunteer to talk about why he was there. But he did tell me that he had served 12 years of a 50-year sentence and we discussed his imminent appeal.

David told me about the difference tourists can make. 'We cook our own food and our ingredients are limited. We only get luxuries like fruit and ketchup when people come to see us.'

I was the first non-consular visitor David had had in a year. 'Books are useful. There's not much else to do in here other than read.' When it was time to leave, I was painfully aware of how much he would have liked to trade places with me.

Pauline Crowe, of Prisoners Abroad, a charity working to improve conditions for Britons locked up on foreign soil, is keen to stress that visitors should be well-prepared. 'People appreciate the food and gifts,' she says. 'But we also recognise, and we get feedback from prisoners, that people can be unintentionally callous with what they talk about, and the questions they ask.' I was told of one twentysomething who explained to an inmate fighting a heroin smuggling conviction that he was late because he had been up the night before taking drugs.

Visitors should also be aware of factors like dress codes: you can't turn up in a vest top, for example. Prison rules vary, from country to country and from prison to prison. Check before you leave Britain: details of all British embassies and consulates can be found on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's website.

Once you've contacted the embassy and established that visits are possible in your destination country, the next question is what to take.

'Much depends on what is allowed in by the prison,' says Crowe. 'Fresh fruit and vegetables are wonderful. But simple things are vital in hotter climates - buy insect repellent locally, plasters, aspirin. Medical things are expensive in prisons. Check what can be taken in.'

Prison visits are not to be undertaken lightly. Whether you find your prisoner receptive or withdrawn, it will not be an easy hour of your life. But if handled sensitively, it is possible to make a real difference to their quality of life - in the short term at least.

· For advice for first-time prison visitors and details about Prisoners Abroad, see prisonersabroad.org.uk. (At his request, the prisoner's name has been changed).

--The Guardian, UK, 2005-10-23

Edited October 25, 2005 by cdnvic

[carlthailand]

Interesting article. Aside from the repeat in the second paragraph.

Sure there are many TV peeps saying Som Nam Nah to these folks. Well, that is their choice. Sure they did the crime and boy are they doing the time. But, hey a little contact with someone from their own country with some fresh fruit, veg etc can't be bad. Surely, a two way gift.

The beauty of these articles is reminds us how lucky we are in some ways. By that I mean we weren't stupid enough to do something in a country whose prisons well SUCK.

Be nice to know abt one for Oz prisoners. Anyone know the site.

I gotta go back to Oz soon, got some books I don't need. No skin off my nose and the experience itself would be eye opening.

C

Edited October 24, 2005 by carlthailand

[Pattayatony]

Interesting article. Aside from the repeat in the second paragraph.

Sure there are many TV peeps saying Som Nam Nah to these folks. Well, that is their choice. Sure they did the crime and boy are they doing the time. But, hey a little contact with someone from their own country with some fresh fruit, veg etc can't be bad. Surely, a two way gift.

The beauty of these articles is reminds us how lucky we are in some ways. By that I mean we weren't stupid enough to do something in a country whose prisons well SUCK.

Be nice to know abt one for Oz prisoners. Anyone know the site.

I gotta go back to Oz soon, got some books I don't need. No skin off my nose and the experience itself would be eye opening.

C

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take a look at this site some very interesting stories and also a list of Prisoners and what country they are from. The story about Kay Danes and her Husband locked up in Laos makes for good reading.

http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prisoners.html

[Backpack_thailand]

Sure they did the crime and boy are they doing the time. But, hey a little contact with someone from their own country with some fresh fruit, veg etc can't be bad. Surely, a two way gift.

The beauty of these articles is reminds us how lucky we are in some ways. By that I mean we weren't stupid enough to do something in a country whose prisons well SUCK.

If all prisons were like country clubs everyone would be breaking the law!

Honest days work doesn't kill you!

The harder the time the better...!

[OZONE]

Sure they did the crime and boy are they doing the time. But, hey a little contact with someone from their own country with some fresh fruit, veg etc can't be bad. Surely, a two way gift.

The beauty of these articles is reminds us how lucky we are in some ways. By that I mean we weren't stupid enough to do something in a country whose prisons well SUCK.

If all prisons were like country clubs everyone would be breaking the law!

Honest days work doesn't kill you!

The harder the time the better...!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely. As much as I would like to feel upset for the inmates, I do not. If you disrespect their country and any other country by breaking the law, you deseved to be punished. By that I mean if you intentionally breaking the law.

If you rape, sell drugs, kill...etc, you deserved maximum penalties

[richard10365]

[kidtongue]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Certainly there are a fair number of those who thought a quick score here would be easy, but there are also those that we don't know anything about. The rule of thmub estimate is that 10% of any prison population are actually innocent, which here means that 250 have been wrongfully convicted. Given the relative opaqueness of the Thai legal system, who's to tell, or even be able to verify, what a *fair* trial looks like? Keep in mind folks that there are *no*, zero, nada zip transcripts in Thai courts. Or is today just a day to dump on the incarcerated because they weren't clever enough to have set aside tea money for tea time?

[WhiteShiva]

Absolutely.  As much as I would like to feel upset for the inmates, I do not.  If you disrespect their country and any other country by breaking the law, you deseved to be punished.  By that I mean if you intentionally breaking the law.

If you rape, sell drugs, kill...etc, you deserved maximum penalties 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about deliberately, intentionally engaging in criminal activities like procurement of sex (prostitution is oficially illegal in Thailand), should these people be locked up as well?

Would be full flights in, and half empty flights out of Don Muang..........

[Backpack_thailand]

How about deliberately, intentionally engaging in criminal activities like procurement of sex (prostitution is oficially illegal in Thailand), should these people be locked up as well?

I can sort of see your reasoning here, however with regards to prostitution both sides are willing participents, neither is a victim.

Murder, rape, drugs etc always produces a victim!

Phew, gettin' a bit heavy this one, great stuff!

[marquess]

How about deliberately, intentionally engaging in criminal activities like procurement of sex (prostitution is oficially illegal in Thailand), should these people be locked up as well?

I can sort of see your reasoning here, however with regards to prostitution both sides are willing participents, neither is a victim.

Murder, rape, drugs etc always produces a victim!

Phew, gettin' a bit heavy this one, great stuff!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's hope that you never find yourself in the wrong side of things! Personally I have very very little confidence in Thai "justice".

[WhiteShiva]

How about deliberately, intentionally engaging in criminal activities like procurement of sex (prostitution is oficially illegal in Thailand), should these people be locked up as well?

I can sort of see your reasoning here, however with regards to prostitution both sides are willing participents, neither is a victim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Two questions:

1) how can you claim that prostitution is a victimless crime? Poverty often causes prostitution, which again often leads to serious emotional trauma, drug abuse, VD, etc.

2) Isn't drug dealing equally a deal between two willing participants?

Not saying I disagree with you, just think you are being less than consistent in your definition of what constitutes a crime.....

[A. BOOZER]

Personally, I would not mind making such a visit, remembering of course, that there are other prisons, outside of BKK, as well. However, my wife is strongly of the 'som nam na' disposition, and that 'tham boon' is best done elsewhere. What is the attitude and response of other forum members wives or girlfriends?

[OZONE]

Absolutely.  As much as I would like to feel upset for the inmates, I do not.  If you disrespect their country and any other country by breaking the law, you deseved to be punished.  By that I mean if you intentionally breaking the law.

If you rape, sell drugs, kill...etc, you deserved maximum penalties 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about deliberately, intentionally engaging in criminal activities like procurement of sex (prostitution is oficially illegal in Thailand), should these people be locked up as well?

Would be full flights in, and half empty flights out of Don Muang..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aslong as I was not with the women at the time than they need to go to jail also; otherwise, noway ....Oh stop it. My misses would cut my head off.

c'mon c'mon you know thats not the same calssification as rapist and murderers. Ofcourse the girls need to go to jail just not as long.

[dseawarrior]

Speaking of avoiding time in the BKK Hilton,,,

Do people out there know of EXCELLENT legal help -- in case one gets into trouble in the land of smiles???

Not that I am facing any charges (I am an angel, really! )

But, all that aside, can we have some links for good legal aide in the LOS?

I have been researching thaivisa forum on this issue, but I have not found out any legal resources...

Perhaps a thread should be opened on this larger topic? What do the moderators say?

dseawarrior

SF and Chiang Mai

[Freddie_fly]

Some interesing views here, and, they seem to be polarised between the "som nam na" crowd and the "aw help out the poor guy" crowd.

Well, as regards drug busts, many people are not aware that the RTP have quota's, and, again, very few seem to be aware that there are no 'entrapment laws' in Thailand.

Personally, while I agree that if you done the crime, you must be prepared to [sic] done the time, the complete lack of transparancy in thai courts must ring at least a few alarm bells.

Someone quoted a figure on innocents convicted here, I personally think that could be comfortably doubled and possibly still not be correct.

Then again the general Thai practice of selling Class 1 drugs to a farang, and then turning them in, for the reward, is quite a lucrative business. (the dealer makes out both ways).

but lets face it folks, farang mules are not the reason that huge quantities of Burma's finest reaches European/US shores. It is going out by the container load, and that requires, insiders to pass it through. Due to agreeements with the DEA and EU authorities, Thailand must be seen to be doing something on the Drug front. The "quick buck" farang is the easiest way to make up the numbers.

Lets not even go into the fact that since Shin corp has huge telecomms contracts with Burma, suddenly Thailand is flooded with Meth drugs which come from???? anyone?? anyone???, yes, Burma!!!!

Think about it

Freddie