Overstayers In Australia

[bridge]

Interesting story from today's Daily Telegraph (Sydney) on the number of unlawful non-citizens in Australia. Only 1700 from Thailand, but look at the numbers from the UK and USA. Ironic that they have significant more overstayers, but they are eligible for ETA Visas. Thai nationals however have to jump through hoops to get a visa by making a paper application for a subclass 676 visa.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/hiding-over-visa-breaches/story-e6freuy9-1226101601753

[bangkockney]

Very interesting to see the nationality mix: almost an even split between developed/developing countries, which I wouldn't of expected.

[xen]

From the Telegraph these are the figures published

A breakdown of the numbers by country reveals authorities are seeking 7590 Chinese, 5050 Americans, 4020 Malaysians and 3470 British.

Thousands of others including Indians (2720), Koreans (2610), Indonesians (2540), Filipinos (2490), Vietnamese (1620), Thais (1700), Germans (1390), Japanese (1290), French (1180), Irish (1170) and Fijians (1000) are also at large.

A handful of the illegals are from the Vatican City in Rome and some are from the Palestinian Authority, while 210 are Israelis, as well as overstayers from other countries

[Madivad]

That is amazing! If it appears that visitors eligible for ETA are more likely to overstay, then why are they so harsh on Thais? Actually, I know that is incorrect, the number of Thais that overstay as opposed to theactual number that make the effort, do the app and get here, is probably higher proportionally to the number of brits or yanks that come and go home vs those that come and don't.

What I found really astounding was that there are a handful from the Vatican. Citizenship is not a birthright like in other countries, and so I fail to see how there could be any. But I suppose there could always be an exception. (side note: article on vatican citizenship - Vatican Citizenship )

Anyway, this should still be a good reason to relax things for the Thais (IMHO)

[KamnanT]

Some might argue that the relatively low number of Thai nationals on overstay is a result of the strict visa regime and not an argument for a more permissive approach. It would be interesting to see these figures restated as a percentage of the total number of temporary entrants from these countries over, say, the last five years.

[Artisi]

Yes, the only meaningful analysis is one where the number of over-stays is compared to the number of arrivals .

[outofoz]

Yes, the only meaningful analysis is one where the number of over-stays is compared to the number of arrivals .

indeed..arrival stats can be found here..

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/statistics/statistical-info/oad/totalmovs/totmova.htm

[MegaRanter]

I know about a dozen holed up in Launceston TAS. I bet its ok to let them stay there are a serious dearth of available native women there but loads of single elderly men.

[asdecas]

I know about a dozen holed up in Launceston TAS. I bet its ok to let them stay there are a serious dearth of available native women there but loads of single elderly men.

I thought he Brits massacred all the native Tasmanians centuries ago...?

[Chris Lawrence]

They can also tell you how many years these overstayers have been here. Many blend in and some have tax file numbers. I would be inclined to set a moratorium on overstayers been here say more than 5 years, as they have more than likely blended into culture and society. The reason I say that is to save Oz money in looking for them. At least it could be one way to flush a lot out and have time to check their credentials.

I am sure the Govt can say that at some point of a person overstaying it becomes near impossible to find them again. That being the case stop throwing good money after bad and get them paying tax and contributing to the country.

This is just my view, and then there is the other side that overstayers don't deserve to be here.

[SirDougless]

What's the fuss? DIAC suggest that most overstayers leave (voluntarily) within 6 months of the offence ...

[Wallaby]

I know about a dozen holed up in Launceston TAS. I bet its ok to let them stay there are a serious dearth of available native women there but loads of single elderly men.

I thought he Brits massacred all the native Tasmanians centuries ago...?

Nearly all the indeginous, not the native.

[Berek]

I am sure the Govt can say that at some point of a person overstaying it becomes near impossible to find them again. That being the case stop throwing good money after bad and get them paying tax and contributing to the country.

Not much chance of that when there was a case recently of a guy who'd been here 25 years (since he was 4 yrs old) and was going to be deported back to the UK. My figures may be out by a year or two but you get the picture

[exbelg]

those overstayers, are they also facing 500/1000 baht per day of overstay + prison + deportation ?

[bridge]

those overstayers, are they also facing 500/1000 baht per day of overstay + prison + deportation ?

Uhmm no they aren't. Wrong country .....

[Crushdepth]

those overstayers, are they also facing 500/1000 baht per day of overstay + prison + deportation ?

We prefer to shoot them. But you get a 5 minute head start.

[harrry]

I think they get charged about $150 a day for accommodation in the detention centre.

[harrry]

I know about a dozen holed up in Launceston TAS. I bet its ok to let them stay there are a serious dearth of available native women there but loads of single elderly men.

Well that has surely increased the gene pool in Tasmaia twelve fold.

[coolhandjoe]

I bet the European and USA overstayers are young back packers or working holiday visas . Not economic migrants.

[Rinrada]

I bet the European and USA overstayers are young back packers or working holiday visas . Not economic migrants.

All part of lifes little game...init

err... I got deported from Australia once (even had a job fixed with ANSL)..

just over 40 years ago......nice place ...but the pubs had weird opening times

[callao]

what is a ETA

[Will27]

I am sure the Govt can say that at some point of a person overstaying it becomes near impossible to find them again. That being the case stop throwing good money after bad and get them paying tax and contributing to the country.

Not much chance of that when there was a case recently of a guy who'd been here 25 years (since he was 4 yrs old) and was going to be deported back to the UK. My figures may be out by a year or two but you get the picture

More than likely said person was removed from Australia for criminal convictions.

If you do the crime, you must take the consequences I guess.

Regards

Will

Edited August 1, 2011 by Will27

[electau]

They can also tell you how many years these overstayers have been here. Many blend in and some have tax file numbers. I would be inclined to set a moratorium on overstayers been here say more than 5 years, as they have more than likely blended into culture and society. The reason I say that is to save Oz money in looking for them. At least it could be one way to flush a lot out and have time to check their credentials.

I am sure the Govt can say that at some point of a person overstaying it becomes near impossible to find them again. That being the case stop throwing good money after bad and get them paying tax and contributing to the country.

This is just my view, and then there is the other side that overstayers don't deserve to be here.

Australia used to have a moratorium on persons illegally in the county but that ended in the late 1980s. It is not impossible to find them. But it does take time and money. They usually get caught when they have to supply the 100 points ID.

[Daewoo]

Far more important than the (usually short term) overstayers are the ones coming in on (expletive deleted) Workers Visas, supported by companies knowingly sponsoring (expletive deleted) working visa applications...

The Chinese company I work for has about 90% of it's staff on workers visas, or even worse on business visas... for the business visa they aren't supposed to work at all, so they just give them a title that makes it appear they are overseeing or mentoring.... the workers they claim they can't fill the positions with locals, which they can't when they advertise the position at 50% of a normal salary, then bring in mainly Chinese, but also Indian, or Iranian labour who devalue the wages for all the Aussies, (like my kids who will have a lower standard of living than their parents, which isn't the way it is supposed to work)...

Australian immigration is a disgrace... give me 100 legitimate refugee for each one of these (expletive deleted) parasites...

Edited August 1, 2011 by 7by7
Expletives deleted

[Rinrada]

what is a ETA

Electronic Travel Authority (ETA) ...Auz Visa outfit

[Chris Lawrence]

Hey Berek how many 4 year olds enter the country illegally a year? You really need to look at the case notes, as it may be a person who has come under the notice of the law. Doing the work I do meet a young 17 yr old kid from Sudan, getting in trouble with the law and being told his place here in Oz is in jeopardy. Mum and older brother here also. Of course not an overstayer. But a 4 yr old sounds strange?

A lot don't need 100 points but this can also be got. False documents, or a tax file number can be got as soon as you arrive.

The biggest problem with all of this paper work is that it is not connected between Govt Depts.

So we have about 13 million coming into the country and out of all those arrivals we have 56,000 people that have overstayed. Now these overstayers may have been here for many years. So we have less than .43% that have overstayed just on this years arrival figure. This may show that our overstayer rate on a year by year figure will be less than this .43%. Could be half to a quarter of this .43%.

How do we compare with the rest of the world?

Its a hard subject as many opinions float to the top. And you don't really know what this Government is up to letting these figures come out?

It would be good to see that they have something positive to say; bit like dear old Nancy' 'just say no', Bowen is going to crackdown on employers. Its a bit like saying 'we are coming to get you'.

Don't doubt its a hard job, but the article sounds more like a smoke screen by the Gillard Govt.

[electau]

To obtain a tax file number you need a current passport and visa. To work you need the correct visa. Immigration, the ATO along with other government agencies use Data matching.

It is not illegal to not have a TFN but tax will be deducted at the max rate if you do not supply one to an employer. To obtain a drivers licence you require 100 points of ID.

False or fraudulent documents are not accepted and all documents can be verified if required.

Australia is developing a DVS Document verification service where documents (Australian) can be verified on line.

The same rates of remuneration must be paid to foreign workers eg under 457 visas for example as are paid to Australians in the same position.

Yes there have been abuses to the system but immigration has been closing these loopholes

Employers have been taken to court for claims of under payment and illegal deductions in many cases.

[Will27]

To obtain a tax file number you need a current passport and visa. To work you need the correct visa. Immigration, the ATO along with other government agencies use Data matching.

It is not illegal to not have a TFN but tax will be deducted at the max rate if you do not supply one to an employer. To obtain a drivers licence you require 100 points of ID.

False or fraudulent documents are not accepted and all documents can be verified if required.

Australia is developing a DVS Document verification service where documents (Australian) can be verified on line.

The same rates of remuneration must be paid to foreign workers eg under 457 visas for example as are paid to Australians in the same position.

Yes there have been abuses to the system but immigration has been closing these loopholes

Employers have been taken to court for claims of under payment and illegal deductions in many cases.

Yes, but one of the problems is that the majority of long tem overstayers either work cash in hand

or use someone else's TFN or identity.

DIAC are trying to tighten up though.

Regards

Will

[Old Croc]

Hey Berek how many 4 year olds enter the country illegally a year? You really need to look at the case notes, as it may be a person who has come under the notice of the law. Doing the work I do meet a young 17 yr old kid from Sudan, getting in trouble with the law and being told his place here in Oz is in jeopardy. Mum and older brother here also. Of course not an overstayer. But a 4 yr old sounds strange?

A lot don't need 100 points but this can also be got. False documents, or a tax file number can be got as soon as you arrive.

The biggest problem with all of this paper work is that it is not connected between Govt Depts.

So we have about 13 million coming into the country and out of all those arrivals we have 56,000 people that have overstayed. Now these overstayers may have been here for many years. So we have less than .43% that have overstayed just on this years arrival figure. This may show that our overstayer rate on a year by year figure will be less than this .43%. Could be half to a quarter of this .43%.

How do we compare with the rest of the world?

Its a hard subject as many opinions float to the top. And you don't really know what this Government is up to letting these figures come out?

It would be good to see that they have something positive to say; bit like dear old Nancy' 'just say no', Bowen is going to crackdown on employers. Its a bit like saying 'we are coming to get you'.

Don't doubt its a hard job, but the article sounds more like a smoke screen by the Gillard Govt.

The only way a four yo would enter the country illegally would be with his parents as a boat refugee claiment. The case mentioned has to be based on character assessment because of the persons criminal behaviour. I think I've read about the case berek highlighted, he was a nasty, habitual criminal who was sent back to the country that spawned him. He had never taken up Oz citizenship.

There is a great deal of cooperation between government departments in Australia (and also with NZ)

as far as cross matching data bases and also exchanging info on individuals. There are many ways to locate someone in the community unless they go completely off the radar.(eventually someone whom they piss off will probably dob them in)

Overstay lists are compiled by comparing arrivals with departures. The figures are released every year (I think a requirement for the minister to report to Parliament) and is not a political ploy. Can't blame everything on Gillard! I remember many years ago the figure was around 120,000.

Thais were always in the top 10 high risk country group. This is based on percentages, not numbers.

This has had a lot to do with the trafficking of sex workers/slaves into Australian brothels.

[Atmos]

vague comparison with 'neighbour' New Zealand . . .

Population 4.2 million, last gov't figures are for 2009-10 July-June year, showing 15880 overstayers.

In that year 502 were 'removed' (must be the polite way of saying deported) a further 537 issued with 'removal orders' but still in the country, presume they are appealing the NZ Immigration decision, and 1,163 overstayers left the country voluntarily.

Immigration spends nearly $6 million on the issue of overstayers. Today it told 3 News it's satisfied that the number of almost 16,000 is small. The minister says reducing overstayer numbers is a focus for the Government, but Immigration has other priorities. He denies New Zealand is a soft touch for illegal migrants. (source)

This story from early this year shows how easy it may be to remain in NZ without any visa . . .

Overstayer spends 20 years in NZ outdoors

Jan 8, 2011

With a tent and an airbed packed into his old silver Mercedes-Benz, and a kayak strapped on top, overstayer Jurgen Karl Ahrens made the New Zealand outdoors his home.

For 20 years, the 72-year-old German avoided authorities and deportation back to his home country because he was always on the move.

. . . .Immigration New Zealand would not discuss the Ahrens case, but said its upgraded systems had led to the number of overstayers falling 29 per cent since 2004.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Atmos