Thailand Vs Cambodia

[Chocolurt]

Hi

I recently told the mrs I was planning a trip to Cambodia travel around by motorbike.

She hit the roof and for the first time in 5 years ive seen her genuinely angry, almost spitting with rage at how much she hates the Khmer. So I think ill go to Vietnam instead... no problem at all!

I know shes a "Yellow Shirt" and is no fan of Mr T. And doesnt like his connections with Cambodia.

I have heared a lot of biased anti-Cambodian stuff from a few Thais.

Anyway my questions, is can anyone recommend a good book which outlines the history with Cambodia in unbiased terms. I never was much of a history buff

Cheers

[Chocolurt]

I read this in a forum (written by a Khmer)

I think some Thai (Siem) people wrote something in here without thinking or no brain to think at all. Hey, Thai thief. I have read about your real source. You (Siem) are the thief of China, then China kicked you guys out from there country and then you came to Cambodia land and asked King Chey Voromonth VII to live on our land. So You were just the poor people and had no land to live before. And our king kindly let you lived, you weren’t even thankful for that, opposite you stole and robbed our Cambodian People land. People on earth never heard of your country during 1000 B.C. So don’t be crazy and stupid to us. You are the thief. Remember your name is no thai but Your real name is ” Siem” which mean Thief. Siem = uneducated thief !!! Siem you guys developed till today because you are very good at cheating and kiss people ass!!!

[remiss]

I get a little bit scared when I hear somebody hating an entire people. There certainly is some hatred going both ways, but I have no idea how much it is. You must also remember that both thai and khmer travel to each others countries and some have been living close to the border areas (on the other side) their entire lives. I know several people in thailand that only speak khmer.

You wives attitude doesn't sound healthy though...

[craigt3365]

I'd understand it if it was due to riding the motorbike. I traveled around Cambo and VN for a few months and was shocked at how many horrible accidents I saw. Very, very bad drivers. Be careful!

[thaihome]

I read this in a forum (written by a Khmer)

I think some Thai (Siem) people wrote something in here without thinking or no brain to think at all. Hey, Thai thief. I have read about your real source. You (Siem) are the thief of China, then China kicked you guys out from there country and then you came to Cambodia land and asked King Chey Voromonth VII to live on our land. So You were just the poor people and had no land to live before. And our king kindly let you lived, you weren’t even thankful for that, opposite you stole and robbed our Cambodian People land. People on earth never heard of your country during 1000 B.C. So don’t be crazy and stupid to us. You are the thief. Remember your name is no thai but Your real name is ” Siem” which mean Thief. Siem = uneducated thief !!! Siem you guys developed till today because you are very good at cheating and kiss people ass!!!

At least for Thai people that grew up near the border in the 1970’s and into the 1980’s, particularly in what is now Sakaeo province, the fears and distrust came about from the outlaw Khmer Rouge bandit gangs, often with bases in the refugee camps, that were roaming around for a large part of that time.

Parents would use this as threat to get children to behave. “You better stop that or I will let the Khmer’s get you…” sort of thing.

The ancient history stuff is nonsense.

For some very interesting background reading, here a website full of stuff from the times.

Thai / Cambodia Border Refugee Camps 1975-1999

TH

[bangkokburning]

Thais love to look down their stubby noses at all their neighbors. The Khmer have long been thought of as black magic, jungle living bush monkeys. The Burmese are ignorant and lazy and the Lao, their loveable lazy country cousins.

Thai forget they owe their entire civilization to the Khmer. The Burmese still the torch bearers of Theravada Buddhism.

I have never met a Khmer who personally had the hate on for Thailand. In fact, last trip to PNH I spoke Thai with the motodop as my Khmer is pretty much finished.

Thailand - what a load. Korea is smoking them, Vietnam coming up fast...

Edited July 27, 2011 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

Thaihome: that would make sense. Thai's lumping bandits and thieves together with starving refugee civilians who were extremely lucky to get a day pass to leave the camps for a few hours.

There was a real lack of compassion toward the refugees, but this is the story of Thailand. It meddles in the internal affairs of its neighbors, prolongs internal strife and then beats the needy back clamoring on its borders for safety and security.

Karen, Hmong, Khmer...

Edited July 27, 2011 by bangkokburning

[Travel2003]

Fair or unfair, I dont know.

But Thailand has a reputation among her negbours of being arrogant and a bully.

Thailand has emerged (since the Sukhothai and Ayutthaya period) stronger and more successful than her neighbours.

I guess some of the feelings is because of general envy of the more sucessful neighbour.

But some is also a result of bullying of her neigbours since Thailand became the stronger part in the region.

Recent history is the regions Thailand "took back" from France and UK, with Japanese endorsement during WW II.

Some of us might remember the riots on PP in 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Phnom_Penh_riots

Im sure both governmens are a bit worry this will refule do to the recent Preah Vihear disputes.

[lazygourmet]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

[Travel2003]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

Ok, most of us know that.

Still not sure what your point is?

[cardholder]

three of us took our Buriram wives to Siem Reap last month.

They were quite fearful of going - an older wife remembered some of the Kymer 'bogeymen stories referred to above.

Siem Reap actually means Siam Defeated so their stall is set out.

However, I believe 'hatred' to be one-sided.

The Cambodians (especially in Siem Reap) were more interested in us as tourists, there was certainly no animosity at all. At first the wives were taken as Cambodians but whenever someone learned they were Thais they were treated with respecdt - same as any tourist.

I think it is the Thais that have the ingrained, historical paradigms that are rather unhealthy. Two friends' wives point blank refused to go to Cambodia with their husbands. The husbands went on their own and I understand that they were very well treated by Cambodian ladies.

Any Thai lady who misses the opportunity to see the beauty of Angkor Wat (and the metropolitan town of Siem Reap) is a foolish bigot.

[jeanpierre]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

never heard of ruanda? burundi? zaire? and many others!!!

[Ulysses G.]

Thais hate Vietnam and Laos too. They do not discriminate about that.

[cardholder]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

You must some kind of half-wit to make that comment. :jerk:

There were significantly higher numbers of victims than perpetrators

[lazygourmet]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

never heard of ruanda? burundi? zaire? and many others!!!

To answer to your question:: of course, I have heard...

I was born in Lubumbashi in 1965, and -some of- my family is still living there for more than two centuries!

Anyway, my point was to point an auto-genocide which never happened anywhere else than Cambodia.

[lazygourmet]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

You must some kind of half-wit to make that comment. :jerk:

There were significantly higher numbers of victims than perpetrators

That was my point, exactly... but you did not get it!

[Travel2003]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

You must some kind of half-wit to make that comment. :jerk:

There were significantly higher numbers of victims than perpetrators

That was my point, exactly... but you did not get it!

I still dont see how this is related to the topic title/first post.

The Thais and Cambodians dont like each other because of what Khmer Rouge (Pol Pol & Co) did?

[cardholder]

Let's talk about Khmer...

Actually, not!

Cambodian are the only people -on planet earth- who did commit an auto-genocide

You must some kind of half-wit to make that comment. :jerk:

There were significantly higher numbers of victims than perpetrators

That was my point, exactly... but you did not get it!

Indeed I did not - do not - get your point.

I would argue that it was not 'Cambodian people' who committed auto-genocide, but an evil minority that held power that murdered innocent citizens.

Anyway, Travel2003 has a perfectly valid point (that I do "get") about the Khmer Rouge perhaps having little effect on the Thai/Cambodian "hatred". Whilst there is some impact from the activities at the end of the Pol Pot period, I think current feelings are more to do with territorial issues - both historic and recent.

[lodesafun]

I was told sometime in my past by a "Cambodian" that When the genocide was happening in Cambodia, Thailand Would not allow them to cross into Thailand to escape the Khmer rouge,and for that reason they were also responsible for the deaths of many men, women and children.

He pretty much said He had forgiven but had not forgot.

I myself have taken my wife there, Phnom penh and Sihanoukville, And to me they seemed much more interested of her than she of them.

[bangkokburning]

I was told sometime in my past by a "Cambodian" that When the genocide was happening in Cambodia, Thailand Would not allow them to cross into Thailand to escape the Khmer rouge,and for that reason they were also responsible for the deaths of many men, women and children.

He pretty much said He had forgiven but had not forgot.

I myself have taken my wife there, Phnom penh and Sihanoukville, And to me they seemed much more interested of her than she of them.

That is correct, but Thailand can hardly be blamed for it. Borders are porous. Just yesterday a bunch of Mexican army crossed unwittingly into the US.

I don't know much about the post 79 (79/83) era although I do find it intriguing - when the country was liberated. Seems a real void.

My hunch is the Viet back govt was not very interested in land near the Thai border. In fact, this is also where the KR factions ended up.KR was doing a fabulous business with Thailand in gems and timber around Pailin and forests south. Most of the old cadre lived in camps relatively un-harassed. Pol Pot, Khieu Samphan, Ta Mok, Noun Chea. Not unlike gov't in exile.

The KR did target backpackers for ransom mid 90s. More than likely bandits did the kidnapping and turned them over to KR. We lost some kids around 97/98 I recall. No one was safe of the roads at night for many years. Even in PNH the city was shuttered after 8pm. The only people dared go out were hookers, mongers and cops. Everyone was armed :-)

Most of these boogeyman stories would come out of areas like Buriram, Sakeo and Sisakhet.

I recall living in PNH in 93 during and after the elections. All sorts of peasants migrating to the city. We often remarked they had a distant look in their eye. Whether it was coming to a city (which was more like a big village). Or the shock of their past and dealing with their living condition.

Khmer are very loveable people, far warmer than most Thai imo. I find their nature very similar to the rural people on the Thai side. They are not the most sophisticated people. Slow to anger but once angered - watch out!

Any Khmer will think respect a Thai lady with Barang as she was able to marry a foreign guy. That means security and halflings! Khmer are absolutely nuts about luk krung (ironic due to KR history no?) - perhaps due to their very dark skin and lack of exposure to the outside world.

Edited July 28, 2011 by bangkokburning

[Thaddeus]

If you want to get one of the locals around these parts stuck in a logic loop, ask them if they are Thai or not, they will insist quite vehemently that they are to the bone, 100%.

Then ask them why they speak Khmen.

They really can't stand being reminded of where they come from and all that it entails, hence the animosity.

[Atmos]

At least for Thai people that grew up near the border in the 1970's and into the 1980's, particularly in what is now Sakaeo province, the fears and distrust came about from the outlaw Khmer Rouge bandit gangs, often with bases in the refugee camps, that were roaming around for a large part of that time.

Hi - I've read that link before, it is very interesting and helped me understand what happened around the borders at that time; my partner is from Sa Kaeo, growing up there when her father was a puyaiban through the war years, and involved in some kind of local militia/security force along the border and had some involvement in one of the refugee camps.

But - she/her family have no problem with the Kampucheans, the same families cross the border each year to assist with rice and cassava harvests, babies and all, and live on the farm for the duration of work. They do not socialise, but do get fed, housed and I think quite well looked after.

We were in Phnom Penh May/June and head back over the border (we're further south in Chanthaburi now) for an extended trip in November; my partner has no 'issues' with going there, she was i thought extremely well-treated when we were in PP, the funniest part was that so often they thought she 'looked Khmer' and was often spoken to in Khmer but she didn't understand a word. She owned up at the National Museum when the woman at the ticket booth waved her through for free as a 'local'. No indication of dislike/hatred anywhere, incl the rural areas we visited and stopped at on a cycling tour, away from the tourist areas.

as always - just my observations.

[cardholder]

If you want to get one of the locals around these parts stuck in a logic loop, ask them if they are Thai or not, they will insist quite vehemently that they are to the bone, 100%.

Then ask them why they speak Khmen.

They really can't stand being reminded of where they come from and all that it entails, hence the animosity.

I made the mistake of saying to my missus that, this year, the border runs through Chong Chom - 200 years ago it may have been north of Ban Kruat, hence the reason that she bears a striking resemblance to Cambodians and can speak Khmen.

The bruises have disappeared now

[ballpoint]

If you want to get one of the locals around these parts stuck in a logic loop, ask them if they are Thai or not, they will insist quite vehemently that they are to the bone, 100%.

Then ask them why they speak Khmen.

They really can't stand being reminded of where they come from and all that it entails, hence the animosity.

What do you mean "where they come from"? Chances are they, and their ancestors for thousands of years back, have come from within a few km of the same place they are now in. You might try asking an Irish person, living in Ireland, if they are Irish or not. And if so, then why are they speaking English? When you get out of hospital then perhaps you'll have a bit more respect for the Thai people you choose to live amongst.

[Atmos]

If you want to get one of the locals around these parts stuck in a logic loop, ask them if they are Thai or not, they will insist quite vehemently that they are to the bone, 100%.

Then ask them why they speak Khmen.

They really can't stand being reminded of where they come from and all that it entails, hence the animosity.

That would be equally offensive to so many people in many countries.

Do you need a list?

[Thaddeus]

perhaps you'll have a bit more respect for the Thai people you choose to live amongst.

I have the utmost respect for them, thank you very much.

[Thaddeus]

If you want to get one of the locals around these parts stuck in a logic loop, ask them if they are Thai or not, they will insist quite vehemently that they are to the bone, 100%.

Then ask them why they speak Khmen.

They really can't stand being reminded of where they come from and all that it entails, hence the animosity.

That would be equally offensive to so many people in many countries.

Do you need a list?

A champion of political correctness eh?

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

[ballpoint]

perhaps you'll have a bit more respect for the Thai people you choose to live amongst.

I have the utmost respect for them, thank you very much.

Good to hear. I don't want to get in an argument with you - I happen to agree with the vast majority of your posts, but that one did come over a little condescending. At the time of the Khmer empire nobody was Thai. The country didn't exist. My wife has remarked in the past that if the border was 50km north of where it is now she would be Cambodian, and our house would be in that country. She does so with relief - not out of any scorn for Cambodians, but simply because her family escaped the horrors of recent Cambodian history. Conversely, if the border was 50km south of where it is, all those people would be Thai. No one has "come from" anywhere else. Their families have farmed the same land for many generations. They all speak the language that history has given them, and they all have the nationality that history has given them. A Khmer speaking Thai has as much right to be Thai as one whose ancestors came from Sukhothai, Chiang Mai, Nakorn Panom or Songkhla.

[Travel2003]

I was told sometime in my past by a "Cambodian" that When the genocide was happening in Cambodia, Thailand Would not allow them to cross into Thailand to escape the Khmer rouge,and for that reason they were also responsible for the deaths of many men, women and children.

He pretty much said He had forgiven but had not forgot.

I myself have taken my wife there, Phnom penh and Sihanoukville, And to me they seemed much more interested of her than she of them.

It is correct regarding the border.

But the genocide in Cambodia was not that well known yet.

There were stories from refugees. But many times a refugee will tell this kinds of stories and it is not always that easy to verify the stories.

In all fairness, there were refugee camps inside the Thai border.

Dont forget Cambodia was practically locked down those days.

Furthermore, both USA and UK backed the KR (Khmer Rouge) government in UN as the official representive from Cambodia.

This was due to politics, the friction between Cambodia (KR) and Vietnam had already started.

Thailand was dragged into this political game as well, with heavy American presence in the country.

I can only guess that some Cambodians became angry or bitter at Thailand after they arrived at the borders, escaping KR.

But they should be equally bitter at the big countries who sopported KR in the UN.

I agree with carholder when he states: I think current feelings are more to do with territorial issues - both historic and recent.

[Thaddeus]

perhaps you'll have a bit more respect for the Thai people you choose to live amongst.

I have the utmost respect for them, thank you very much.

Good to hear. I don't want to get in an argument with you - I happen to agree with the vast majority of your posts, but that one did come over a little condescending. At the time of the Khmer empire nobody was Thai. The country didn't exist. My wife has remarked in the past that if the border was 50km north of where it is now she would be Cambodian, and our house would be in that country. She does so with relief - not out of any scorn for Cambodians, but simply because her family escaped the horrors of recent Cambodian history. Conversely, if the border was 50km south of where it is, all those people would be Thai. No one has "come from" anywhere else. Their families have farmed the same land for many generations. They all speak the language that history has given them, and they all have the nationality that history has given them. A Khmer speaking Thai has as much right to be Thai as one whose ancestors came from Sukhothai, Chiang Mai, Nakorn Panom or Songkhla.

I agree with you completely, and apologise if my earlier post was taken the wrong way, it wasn't meant as in insult, it came from actual real experience of what happens when you ask a local a thought provoking question, and not just an unknown perception.

The topic title is flawed "Thailand vs Cambodia" .... at grass roots level there is no conflict between these two nations, I have a border crossing just up the road from me where Cambodians are allowed through to get medical treatment at our local hospital as the facilities on their side are dire, and its no questions asked. We used to have a weekly market in no-mans-land for the Thai locals to buy Cambodian produce and they mixed together just fine, as they are just people getting along with their lives as best they can.

The only "Thailand vs Cambodia" that goes on is caused by the machinations of the real or wannabe power brokers of both countries.