Discussion At Immigration Today

[Richard4849]

Weren't you the one who said you had to be born English -- you can never become English? Does that not intimate you have to be born of English stock/blood to be considered English? Again...that is describing an ethnicity, not a nationality. Talk about having it wrong.

[Mosha]

This is quite interesting. So, someone like Amy Winehouse (a Jew) should never be properly called "the English songstress Amy Winehouse" because she didn't have a drop of English blood in her? Or is it OK because she was white?

How about mixed blood people, like some of your half-breed kids?

I think a certain Mr. Hitler had expressed some thoughts in regard to purity of bloodlines...

The etnicity of the Jews is even more diverse than the British

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Ethnic_divisions

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mosha

[Moonrakers]

Troll.

Nobody is truly that dim.

[Richard4849]

Classic way to run away from an argument you have just lost.

Have a nice day.

[onionluke]

This is quite interesting. So, someone like Amy Winehouse (a Jew) should never be properly called "the English songstress Amy Winehouse" because she didn't have a drop of English blood in her? Or is it OK because she was white?

How about mixed blood people, like some of your half-breed kids?

I think a certain Mr. Hitler had expressed some thoughts in regard to purity of bloodlines...

I thought Amy was at least half horse .

[Richard4849]

This is quite interesting. So, someone like Amy Winehouse (a Jew) should never be properly called "the English songstress Amy Winehouse" because she didn't have a drop of English blood in her? Or is it OK because she was white?

How about mixed blood people, like some of your half-breed kids?

I think a certain Mr. Hitler had expressed some thoughts in regard to purity of bloodlines...

I thought Amy was at least half horse .

Maybe she WAS English, then...just look at Camilla.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Richard4849

[thaicbr]

I once knew a Scotsman whose dislike of the English was such that he refused to recognise he was British.

He was a bit of a tool though.

I know a Scottish woman who always gets upset when i say i'm English. But it's usually ok when i say "Sorry Mum"

ps My Dad was English.

Edited July 29, 2011 by thaicbr

[onionluke]

Any one remeber the guy who produced his own Pictland passport and got duly arrested ?

[eyebee]

I was born and bred on the London/Essex border, so I am as British/English as one can be. I have always regarded England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as somewhat analogous to the individual States in the USA. Each of the States has different laws, a capital, and its own culture. Alabama and Maine, for instance are very different from each other. However most people in the USA would describe themselves as "American", no matter what State they come from. They may say "I'm a resident of Virginia" or whatever, but their nationality is American. Likewise in the UK (the United Kingdom), one can be Welsh, Scottish, English or Northern Irish, but one's nationality is British. Point made.

[Richard4849]

I was born and bred on the London/Essex border, so I am as British/English as one can be. I have always regarded England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as somewhat analogous to the individual States in the USA. Each of the States has different laws, a capital, and its own culture. Alabama and Maine, for instance are very different from each other. However most people in the USA would describe themselves as "American", no matter what State they come from. They may say "I'm a resident of Virginia" or whatever, but their nationality is American. Likewise in the UK (the United Kingdom), one can be Welsh, Scottish, English or Northern Irish, but one's nationality is British. Point made.

Agreed! Is this guy a troll, too, Moonraker?

[Patsycat]

Pride comes into it.

I am Irish

I am Scottish

I am Welsh

Perhaps not so much when

I'm from Essex. (sorry!!)

[Moonrakers]

Never knew you're an Essex girl Patsy

[Moonrakers]

I was born and bred on the London/Essex border, so I am as British/English as one can be. I have always regarded England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as somewhat analogous to the individual States in the USA. Each of the States has different laws, a capital, and its own culture. Alabama and Maine, for instance are very different from each other. However most people in the USA would describe themselves as "American", no matter what State they come from. They may say "I'm a resident of Virginia" or whatever, but their nationality is American. Likewise in the UK (the United Kingdom), one can be Welsh, Scottish, English or Northern Irish, but one's nationality is British. Point made.

Agreed! Is this guy a troll, too, Moonraker?

eyebee's nationality is British and English.

It's fookin' simple. They are nationalities within a nationality. It really is not a difficult concept to grasp so you are either just unwilling or unable to comprehend. It's all over the bleeding internet. They are COUNTRIES

Trolltard

[Trembly]

If I may be so bold, I think that some people might be trying to say this . . .

There are three forms of identity which are distinct but so often conflated. In order of mutability :

1. Political / National (your passport)

2. Cultural (values and ethos)

3. Ethnic (your genes)

Some hypothetical examples :

Paddy Moynahan, London.

1. British / Irish

2. English / Irish in March, or when he is drunk.

3. Irish

Keith Muir, Edinburgh

1. British

2. Scottish

3. Scottish

John Acker, Wolverhampton

1. British

2. English

3. English

James DeSouza, Winchester

1. British

2. Somewhat English, due mostly to the behavioral nuances of rural Hampshire society. The truth is he doesn't care and is culturally best described as New Age Mash-head. Mum was a hippy who met dad in Goa before bringing him back to Hampshire.

3. English / Indian-Subcontinent

Craig Johnson

1. British

2. Plum in his mouth, like many of the officers in his tartan-kilted regiment.

3. Scottish / English / Norman / French / Portuguese . . . . he'll go on if you encourage him.

Britain / Great Britain as we know it is a political construct that was born in 1066. Because of the United Kingdom, citizens will have 2 levels of identity in coincidence at the most.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Trembly

[Richard4849]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Richard4849

[Moonrakers]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

Nobody said that.

[Moonrakers]

Richard.... you need to think outside the box a little.

I think you are trying to take the model from your country and applying that model to all other countries and expecting to get the same results. For hundreds, thousands of years history has been shaping nations and their associations with each other. During that time, many have developed their own unique identities that do not fit into other templates.

Throughout the world you have lots anomalies E.G: The Queens head on Australian currency, Hong Kong, Vatican city, Monaco and Catalonia, Holland, The Falkand Islands, The Gurkhas and the Swiss Guard to name but just a few. Britain is just one of these unique anomalies that have evolved over time. There is no other nation in the world that has a nation of nations in the same way that Britain does. Similar, but not the same. Just because the home nations do not fit the same exact template as others nations, it does not mean they are not nations.

Just remember that not everything is the same as it is in your country, neither does it have to.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Moonrakers

[StreetCowboy]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

If he was born there, he'd not be an immigrant; he'd be a native, like Lewis Hamilton.

Or Masjid Haq, the Scottish cricketer, from Paisley.

I'm not sure what you call people born while serving overseas...

The great thing about being British is that we are so much more welcoming, tolerant and inclusive than many other nations, and can readily assimilate people from very diverse backgrounds. I suppose that is something, as well as the language, that our North American cousins have inherited from us. Inclusive and yet tolerant of diversity, I suppose because we spend so much time blowing our own trivial differences out of all proportion.

SC

[Richard4849]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

Nobody said that.

Post #33:

What can not be obtained is to become English, or Scottish, Welsh, Irish (the UK part of Ireland that is!) you're either born English or you aren't English.

[Moonrakers]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

Nobody said that.

Post #33:

What can not be obtained is to become English, or Scottish, Welsh, Irish (the UK part of Ireland that is!) you're either born English or you aren't English.

You have completely and utterly misunderstood. That does not imply race is an issue in the slightest.

[Richard4849]

Post #117:

Even Briton has been hijacked and includes anyone born on that sacred isle. Many times I've clicked on headlines such as " Briton fighting for the Taliban." Or some such negative headline. You read the article and it's someone who has family on the India Sub-continent.

[Richard4849]

You have completely and utterly misunderstood. That does not imply race is an issue in the slightest.

The meaning seemed clear to me: you're either "born" English or you're not. You cannot become English via naturalization.

What did it mean to you?

[Moonrakers]

Post #117:

Even Briton has been hijacked and includes anyone born on that sacred isle. Many times I've clicked on headlines such as " Briton fighting for the Taliban." Or some such negative headline. You read the article and it's someone who has family on the India Sub-continent.

That's just racist crap.

It does not represent all of us and does not have a bearing on nationality.

[David006]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

Nobody said that.

So where does that leave HMQE2...product of German and Danish bloodlines ...... poor lass.

.....guess it coulda been even worse.. "French" ( Rowan Atkinson)

[StreetCowboy]

Post #117:

Even Briton has been hijacked and includes anyone born on that sacred isle. Many times I've clicked on headlines such as " Briton fighting for the Taliban." Or some such negative headline. You read the article and it's someone who has family on the India Sub-continent.

I think I have family on the sub-continent... though I believe their child - my closest peer in that branch of the family - now lives in Argentina; I could be wrong, though. As I recall, they 'swam back to their home river' for the birth of their offspring in turn; it just goes t show how important nationality is to some people, and the lengths to which people will go to maintain it down the generations.

SC

[Orac]

You have completely and utterly misunderstood. That does not imply race is an issue in the slightest.

The meaning seemed clear to me: you're either "born" English or you're not. You cannot become English via naturalization.

What did it mean to you?

Surely you would become British by naturalization not English???

[Moonrakers]

You have completely and utterly misunderstood. That does not imply race is an issue in the slightest.

The meaning seemed clear to me: you're either "born" English or you're not. You cannot become English via naturalization.

What did it mean to you?

You can become a naturalized British citizen. The 'English' thing is a technicality because there is no "English passport'. Drop the race thing because you are so barking up the wrong tree.

I've tried to explain it to you in another post. Read it and at least try to absorb it, I'm trying to be patient and explain so you could at least try to understand.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Moonrakers

[Richard4849]

Post #117:

Even Briton has been hijacked and includes anyone born on that sacred isle. Many times I've clicked on headlines such as " Briton fighting for the Taliban." Or some such negative headline. You read the article and it's someone who has family on the India Sub-continent.

That's just racist crap.

It does not represent all of us and does not have a bearing on nationality.

Thanks for clarifying. Since you didn't jump all over the poster, calling him a trolltard and others such things, I wrongly assumed you agreed with what he said.

[Moonrakers]

OK, if England is a country, why is it not possible for an immigrant born there to ever be correctly called "English" in your estimation? You are describing an ethnicity, a people, a bloodline -- not a nationality.

Nobody said that.

So where does that leave HMQE2...product of German and Danish bloodlines ...... poor lass.

.....guess it coulda been even worse.. "French" ( Rowan Atkinson)

Not to mention Phil the Greek.

[Moonrakers]

Post #117:

Even Briton has been hijacked and includes anyone born on that sacred isle. Many times I've clicked on headlines such as " Briton fighting for the Taliban." Or some such negative headline. You read the article and it's someone who has family on the India Sub-continent.

That's just racist crap.

It does not represent all of us and does not have a bearing on nationality.

Thanks for clarifying. Since you didn't jump all over the poster, calling him a trolltard and others such things, I wrongly assumed you agreed with what he said.

I got bored of arguing with that type long ago. It's pointless, they read the daily mail