Australia's Jetstar Denies Exploiting Thai Staff

[webfact]

Australia's Jetstar denies exploiting Thai staff

SYDNEY, July 28, 2011 (AFP) - Budget Australian carrier Jetstar strongly denied claims Thursday that it was exploiting foreign cabin crew and overworking its staff following reports of 20-hour shifts.

The airline said it took fatigue "extremely seriously" and denied "it forces cabin crew to operate when fatigued" after former and current staff and pilots told ABC television flight attendants were overburdened.

Foreign crews based in Bangkok were especially vulnerable, according to the ABC report, with open-ended employment contracts stating the maximum 20-hour shift could be extended and punitive exit clauses.

Jetstar chief Bruce Buchanan said a lot of the claims were "completely false and we completely deny them."

"The claims about slave labour and the claims that we pay these people a pittance -- our salaries in Thailand for instance, we are paying these people Aus$20,000-$30,000 a year in Thailand. That ranks in the top few percent of salaries in that country," Buchanan told ABC television.

Contracts obtained by the ABC for Jetstar's Thai staff set a shift limit of 20 hours but stipulates that the "planned limit and operational extensions may be extended by the employer".

They get paid just Aus$258 ($285) per month and $7 for every hour they fly, plus allowances, ABC said, with penalties of up to 4.5 months of their base wage if they quit early or are sacked.

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week.

Buchanan said Jetstar was "competing in Asia" and in line with local conditions, with two-thirds of its 3,000 flights per week to 17 countries in and around Asia and one-third of its staff from the region.

ABC said there had been almost 40 fatigue complaints from staff on Jetstar's long-haul domestic routes in Australia, with some expressing concern that they would be ill-equipped to handle an emergency after lengthy shifts.

One former Australian crewman told ABC he "felt like a slave" on the round trip from Sydney to the Indonesian island of Bali, with a 15-hour overnight shift, which could easily become 20 hours with delays.

Though Jetstar did not roster anyone for 15-hour stretches Buchanan said there "were situations where people do extend" and fatigue management was a joint responsibility of the company and the individual.

"Look at the hard facts -- our cabin crew work an average of 24 hours a week and you can't do too many 20 hour shifts (in a 24-hour week)," he said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-07-28

[TAWP]

24H a week? For that salary? So...what is the problem?

[softgeorge]

Jetstar is the budget arm of qantas and a couple of months ago they were offering thier Australian crews redundancy packages to reduce costs. The plan was then to replace the Australian staff with attendants from S.E Asia preferably thais.

[eljeque]

Does anyone know what Thai pays?

[softgeorge]

Does anyone know what Thai pays?

Half-price hosties - Jetstar's response

The Sunday Telegraph<li class="date-and-time last">June 12, 201112:00AM

Q: How much are the crew paid ? Is it true that some are paid as little as $12,000 a year before allowances ? Or $1800 in a “good month”. What is the base salary on average? How does that compare to Australian workers on around $50k including allowances?

In reference to our Australian Cabin crew, under our EBA arrangement, a Jetstar Cabin crew member earns AUD$43,580 annually plus allowances as a domestic Flight Attendant.

An Australian Cabin Manager earns AUD$50,150 plus allowances (on domestic only operations) and internationally AUD$51,773 plus allowances.

Additional remuneration through allowances includes overnights, stand-by payments, inflight sales commission and flight hours.

A Singapore based Cabin Manager earns over SGD$27,000 per annum in addition to other remuneration based on flight hours worked and overnights.

A New Zealand based Cabin Crew member are paid under contract on a per hour basis. This is NZD$21.22 per hour in addition to numerous allowances.

A Thai based Cabin Crew member earns is BHT14,000 per month plus numerous allowances and Cabin Managers is BHT17,000 per month plus numerous allowances.

As indicated Cabin crew either direct employed or which provide services to Jetstar branded operations around the Asia Pacific region are appropriately remunerated in line with their local workplace arrangements.

[jomtienbob]

Thai Airways are about 60-75% of that and people will do absolutely ANYTHING to get those jobs. I know a mid size public company in BKK that pays their COO about the same as that.

[skorchio]

cabin crew at every airline get shafted now and again just as passengers do. Cc join the aircraft before pax do, they have already been working at least 1 hr with the pre-flight briefing, security check etc etc. If an 8 hr flight is then delayed 4 hrs, thats a 15 hr stretch by the time they debrief. Easy to see how it work out .....

[TomnearCentral]

Thai Airways are about 60-75% of that and people will do absolutely ANYTHING to get those jobs. I know a mid size public company in BKK that pays their COO about the same as that.

Let me get this straight:

Are you saying Thai Airways Cabin crew makes 60-75% of 14,000 Baht a month on basic salary? I highly doubt that...

[Samuian]

For "Thailand based" Crew 14-17.000 baht a month is about right, it's already 5-8000 baht more then the anticipated "minimum wage" from the incoming new "democratically elected" government, the official branch of Shin Corp. so who worries?

Can anyone publish the official Thai-Airways salaries of those thailand based Crews who really work and are active part of the actual operational part of this enterprise and not just a name on the payroll?

[stewyk71]

Having been in the travel business" Budget airline" usually means they are ripping someone off to keep the prices down

[RedNIvar]

Australia's Jetstar denies exploiting Thai staff

Why? everyone else is exploiting them. Just jump on the bandwagon.

Air crew basic salary is not that great. I believe they make their money from the various allowances, which end up being significantly more than their basic salary.

[softgeorge]

Jetstar staff raise fatigue concerns

• Neil Wilson
• From:Herald Sun
• July 28, 201112:00AM

• UPDATE 8.30am: LOW-COST airline Jetstar has again defended its employment practices after claims it forced some cabin crews to work shifts of above 20 hours which left them unable to do their jobs safely.
  The program also claimed that Thai-based Jetstar crews could be required to work hours without any specified time limits or breaks and had to pay a bond of more than $2000 Australian dollars which they would lose if they left the airline without completing their employment contract.

Senator Nick Xenophon, who sat on the committee, said the airline's work requirements for some of its staff were unacceptable.

He said it was "unconscionable" that Jetstar were implementing employment contracts in subsidiaries in other nations which would not be tolerated in Australia and which could risk safety.

The Senator queried how crews could work with safety under such circumstances.

The airline defended its employment practices by stating that such bonds were normal business practice in Thailand and accounted for the cost of training.

[yadetout]

As any airlines, Thai pays their FA less than before I guess.

Steward have better payrolls than Air Hostess just because they end up with a better schedule (more long haul flights).

Now it is computerized so you randomly get your schedule according to your status. air hostess = AHY (newbies) AHE (not newbies) AHF (allow to do First class), Same for stewards but replace the H by an S.

Based salary is between 15 and 20k I guess. Add to this is their perdium which vary with the change as they are paid in local currency or USD if it is a destination like JP or KR...

If they get a "hia" schedule (lots of dom or quick turn flights) they could get 30K in perdium. But with a very good schedule + some swapped flight, they could get up to 80K in perdium. Average will be 50K perdium.

[farangbanok]

the anticipated "minimum wage" from the incoming new "democratically elected" government, the official branch of Shin Corp.

I get very angry with overpaid farang who have been brainwashed by their "elite" masters. Perhaps they should publish on TV how their grossly excessive salaries compare with those of Khon Thai doing the same job alongside them.

I see no earthly reason why sarcastic comments about Thailand's democratic system should enter into a discussion about an Oz company's Conditions of Employment.

IMHO the pay scales should be relevant for the country in which the employee is based, if based in BKK then Thailand pay scales, if based in Melbourne then Oz pay scales. I guess the BKK merchant bankers and financial wizards (?) wouldn't like that system though. Be paid the same as a Thai for the same work? No way!

Simple really - but then I am just a simple man living in the North East and thus cannot comprehend BKK high finance. LOL.

[Samuian]

......edited to shorten...

The Senator queried how crews could work with safety under such circumstances.

The airline defended its employment practices by stating that such bonds were normal business practice in Thailand and accounted for the cost of training.

Yeah, and how can an airline operate if staff doesn't show up the very day they should, bond is only one thing, the next is as it is a low budget airline, the low cost must be gained somewhere, why is Thailand such a Touristdestination, because every thai worker, on site trained staff earns 50.000 a month and hotelrooms do cost 100-300 AUS$ in general a night, how about cost of living in OZ and Thailand, Taxes?

Besides thai-Staff loves to get free training in one company, then setle for much better pay with another... loyalty is some unknown treat in LoS, unless it's da "Chief" the "Puu yai baan"!

Mr.Xenophone some remnant of the english unions who fled the iron lady on "the continent" many years ago?

[janverbeem]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

[brianb1944]

Thai Airways are about 60-75% of that and people will do absolutely ANYTHING to get those jobs. I know a mid size public company in BKK that pays their COO about the same as that.

Let me get this straight:

Are you saying Thai Airways Cabin crew makes 60-75% of 14,000 Baht a month on basic salary? I highly doubt that...

And what is your basis for doubting that? please enlighten us with your insider information.

[softgeorge]

As any airlines, Thai pays their FA less than before I guess.

Steward have better payrolls than Air Hostess just because they end up with a better schedule (more long haul flights).

Now it is computerized so you randomly get your schedule according to your status. air hostess = AHY (newbies) AHE (not newbies) AHF (allow to do First class), Same for stewards but replace the H by an S.

Based salary is between 15 and 20k I guess. Add to this is their perdium which vary with the change as they are paid in local currency or USD if it is a destination like JP or KR...

If they get a "hia" schedule (lots of dom or quick turn flights) they could get 30K in perdium. But with a very good schedule + some swapped flight, they could get up to 80K in perdium. Average will be 50K perdium.

Australia does not use U.S currency it has it's own currency and if the were to be paid in US dollars then it would be less than being paid in AUD.

[brianb1944]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

No use taking wages alone, for it to mean anything it has to be in the context of the Cost of living in the country concerned

[brianb1944]

the anticipated "minimum wage" from the incoming new "democratically elected" government, the official branch of Shin Corp.

I get very angry with overpaid farang who have been brainwashed by their "elite" masters. Perhaps they should publish on TV how their grossly excessive salaries compare with those of Khon Thai doing the same job alongside them.

I see no earthly reason why sarcastic comments about Thailand's democratic system should enter into a discussion about an Oz company's Conditions of Employment.

IMHO the pay scales should be relevant for the country in which the employee is based, if based in BKK then Thailand pay scales, if based in Melbourne then Oz pay scales. I guess the BKK merchant bankers and financial wizards (?) wouldn't like that system though. Be paid the same as a Thai for the same work? No way!

Simple really - but then I am just a simple man living in the North East and thus cannot comprehend BKK high finance. LOL.

is that "angry" or maybe "envious"?

[janverbeem]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

No use taking wages alone, for it to mean anything it has to be in the context of the Cost of living in the country concerned

So you mean that one would need a minimum of 75000 Baht to survive a month in Australia?

[ryladie99]

. Right now we only hear from the Airline. I can not pin point until hearing from both sides. But, working for the airline is a hardest job and long hour. In America my girlfriend has to join the Union and receives high salary. I am not sure any Union Rep for the Thai crew members. My take and opinion.

[TomnearCentral]

Thai Airways are about 60-75% of that and people will do absolutely ANYTHING to get those jobs. I know a mid size public company in BKK that pays their COO about the same as that.

Let me get this straight:

Are you saying Thai Airways Cabin crew makes 60-75% of 14,000 Baht a month on basic salary? I highly doubt that...

And what is your basis for doubting that? please enlighten us with your insider information.

I do not have any "insider information". If I remember I did not claim that. I do however find it hard to believe that Thai Airways Crew earns less then 10,500 Baht a month.

If somebody can come forward with solid information that this is so I will obviously not doubt it anymore, but just saying that it is so does not make it a fact, or does it?

"Educated" people in Thailand (and surely you must be "educated" to score a job with Thai Airways) are paid more then that kind of money these days in Thailand according to my own personal experienced living and working here for a while.

[BlueSmurf]

While we are on the subject what about the Thais exploiting the Burmese here and in Burma?

[chmiroau]

Um, am I on my own when I read this. I am from Australia. So much of the western work force has, is being replaced by low paid overseas workers. Even when you take into account the massive cost of relocating the primary product and then the end product, it is still cheaper to export the labor. What surprised me was that after being in Thailand for about six months, I realised that much of the labor that I thought was going on in China, was actually happening here in Thailand. And there is another step down from Thailand, Burma, Vietnam, Cambodia, possible ECT.

Big companies want, believe that it is their right to source their labor at the cheapest rate they possibly can, this helps their bottom line and their stock value. If you are believing that this system is not fair, maybe even grossly unfair, then you had better get ready for price explosions.

With JetStar, I am happy that they are managing to find less expensive labor, so long as it doesn't inter-fear with the operational-ability of said aircraft. After all we as consumers are the reason why cut price air companies are there, we want to travel at the cheapest possible rate, which means that the air companies must find ways to cut their costs.

If anyone is to blame for situations like this, then it is us. The ones that use companies like these.

If you don't want to support this kind of labor, then you will have to spend a lot of time and even more money making sure that the people that do anything for you are being rewarded in the way that you would like them to be. I would say that that is akin to mission impossible as the biggest difference between run of the mill and designer is the price tag, it certainly isn't where they were made, or how much the people on the cutting room floor were paid.

[softgeorge]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

$590 = 15.52 per hour on a 38 hour week pre tax. $2,360 per month pre tax a pitence and I wouldn't work for that in Aust .

AUD = 32.82 baht 77,455 bht per month pre tax. after tax about 52,000 baht.

You would struggle very hard to live on this in Aust as the average rent is approx 250 AUD per week. However knock yourself out and go for it.

[RedNIvar]

While we are on the subject what about the Thais exploiting the Burmese here and in Burma?

That's different, birth rite vs. exploitation. Different discussion.

[chmiroau]

Foot note. I remember watching a current affairs program that was screened in Australia not long after the big bush fires had been through Melbourne a few years back. The presenter was talking with one of the loggers that had been given the job of harvesting all the plantation trees. He was asked what was going to happen with all the trees. He replied, 'same as what would have happened with them. They get harvested put on a truck, taken to the docks, put on a boat, sent to Korea where they will be turned into particle board. Then they are put on a boat and brought back to Australia to be sold on the domestic market as a locally grown product.

This is happening under the noses of the Australian public, just think of the extra carbon produced by such an industry, no wonder why industries like this have applied for exemption.

The work force in the west has simply become too expensive to run, so companies are looking elsewhere to source their workforce. Why shouldn't the airline companies?

[visions]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

I suspect not too many Aussis on that low a salary scale, most would be considerably more. My friend works for a company as a shop fitter (renovating shop interiors) and gets A$400 a day.

But after paying taxes, high travel costs to work, $30 a day to park ur car, very high house rental, medical insurance etc, ur actually better off working in Thailand at the Tha Governmet minimum required Farang salary of 50,000B.

[scorecard]

Australia's minimum wage is Aus$590 per week

This amounts to about 75000 Baht per month.Is there someone who can confirm this as I'm interested in a low paid job in Australia in that case.

No use taking wages alone, for it to mean anything it has to be in the context of the Cost of living in the country concerned

Also, you need to fully understand all the elements of how Thai calculates salary. For example, many Thai staff will quote their gross salary. like most people do, but in reality they should get this amount less tax in their actual cash money (like employees anywhere), but they don't because many years ago Thai added a build up (in other words Thai paid their tax for them)so that the gross salary they quote is in fact what they get in the bank.

Further, many years ago Thai gave very large increases to pilots and cabin crew so that their salary (after exchange rates) was close to the actual salaries for Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific.

Why, Because in those days the Thai union was very powerful (maybe still is) and they claimed it was embarrassing for them to meet cabin crew from the other airlines, because the other airline staff knew that salaries for Thai staff was lower.