Foreigners' Rights Under Thai Law Seminar Announced

[foxteen]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

The policeman story pops up every time a foreigner wants to express here his/hers enthousiasm for living in Thailand. Interesting.

Because they are the best Police in the world,i guess

[englishinsiam]

I'd happily let my son do National Service, I think it should be brought back into Britain it'll teach some of the young some manners and respect.

Thanks for the advise though guys.

[Bagwan]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

The policeman story pops up every time a foreigner wants to express here his/hers enthousiasm for living in Thailand. Interesting.

Because they are the best Police in the world,i guess

At what precisely? Serving and protecting themselves? My take is that 'your guess' is way off beam in stellar proportion..

[samran]

Thai law does not recognize dual citizenship, but in usual applications, it does not seem to be a problem ie. always enter and leave Thai territory under the same passport. Please be careful if your male child is of age to be conscripted into the army. As for the person who wonders about putting the house in a child's name, you should contact a law office such as Sunbelt Asia. This is not a plug for them, but they may be able to point you in the right direction. You can(100%) put the building(house) in your name because this is what I have done with my place in Krung Thep. The document you need is an ufrustuct(horrible spelling) from the Khet or Amphur office BEFORE the land title is transferred! This gives you right of abode until you die. The land/house cannot be sold without your permission. I own my house and my wife owns the land. Since we have 4 children, I have no worries after I am dead.

nonsense you dont need expensive sunbelt just do paperwork at land office as we did years ago but if i remember both parents had to sign several forms It is really easy. The point about a male is very valid if a male does not do his national service and hes meant to then he cant get a Thai passport.

two incorrect posts in a row.

Thai law explicitly recognises that people can have more than one citizenship. There are clauses within the Nationality act which specifically talk about circumstances with dual citizenship can handle renouncing Thai citizenship, if they so wish.

But, having more than one citizenship is not problematic under Thai law.

As for not doing national service being a barrier to get a Thai passport, utter Tosh. All you need to get a Thai passport is a Thai birth certificate (if living overseas) or an ID card if living in Thailand. No certifcation that you've done military service is needed.

I've never needed to show my military exemption certificate for anything, except during appling for my wife's Thai citizenship.

Anyway, back to the moan-fest. Quite ironic, as farang's in most cases are treated much better under Thai law, and with more deference, than the average poor Thai citizen. But what would I know?

[jonclark]

I honestly applaud the effort as foreigners do have rights - But whilst this may be sound in theory. In practice it fails as most Thais believe that Foreigners have no rights under the law and until the Thai population at large is (re) educated to understand that , shock, horror, we have rights too, nothing in practice will change.

That is a two way street. If you will read the posts so far you will notice that what you say the Thais believe is also what the majority of the posters so far believe.

It would be interesting to here some honest opinions on the subject. I have a skeptical outlook on the opinion of people who constantly belittle Thai's. I find it easy to not do that by realizing I am in another country by choice.

Part of the reason I chose to live here is because they are different here. If I tried to judge them on them not being like back where I came from I would be with the Thai basher's in a heartbeat. And shortly after that on my way back to where I came from.

No my post was not about belittling and bemoaning Thais. It was about stating fact. We have rights which are guaranteed by law, however most Thais are unaware of the law, which was written by Thais for all people living in Thailand. All I'm saying is that perhaps Thais should educate themselves about the laws they themselves wrote (especially those involved in the enforcement of the law). Being in Thailand by choice is irrelevant as these laws should be applied to all people in Thailand whether or not they are here by choice or otherwise.

My post was aimed at promoting awareness amongst Thais of their own laws.

Edit. As part of the broader picture; this awareness should help Thais understand their legal rights as well and prevent them from being exploited and feeling powerless.

Edited July 31, 2011 by jonclark

[Traxster]

We have rights?

Maybe they mean 'wrights' or perhaps 'rites' ??

[jonclark]

Thai law does not recognize dual citizenship, but in usual applications, it does not seem to be a problem ie. always enter and leave Thai territory under the same passport. Please be careful if your male child is of age to be conscripted into the army. As for the person who wonders about putting the house in a child's name, you should contact a law office such as Sunbelt Asia. This is not a plug for them, but they may be able to point you in the right direction. You can(100%) put the building(house) in your name because this is what I have done with my place in Krung Thep. The document you need is an ufrustuct(horrible spelling) from the Khet or Amphur office BEFORE the land title is transferred! This gives you right of abode until you die. The land/house cannot be sold without your permission. I own my house and my wife owns the land. Since we have 4 children, I have no worries after I am dead.

nonsense you dont need expensive sunbelt just do paperwork at land office as we did years ago but if i remember both parents had to sign several forms It is really easy. The point about a male is very valid if a male does not do his national service and hes meant to then he cant get a Thai passport.

two incorrect posts in a row.

Thai law explicitly recognises that people can have more than one citizenship. There are clauses within the Nationality act which specifically talk about circumstances with dual citizenship can handle renouncing Thai citizenship, if they so wish.

But, having more than one citizenship is not problematic under Thai law.

As for not doing national service being a barrier to get a Thai passport, utter Tosh. All you need to get a Thai passport is a Thai birth certificate (if living overseas) or an ID card if living in Thailand. No certifcation that you've done military service is needed.

I've never needed to show my military exemption certificate for anything, except during appling for my wife's Thai citizenship.

Anyway, back to the moan-fest. Quite ironic, as farang's in most cases are treated much better under Thai law, and with more deference, than the average poor Thai citizen. But what would I know?

Not gonna moan, but not sure that the last part of your post is as black and white as you make out. I'm sure we all remember the case of the young girl (from a very well connected Thai family) who had the car accident and killed 8 - 9 people. I think the consequence for the girl might have been different had she been Burmese. The OP is about the rights of Foreigners - Not farangs - just to be clear. Certain groups of foreigners are treated far worse than the poor average Thai. Lets not pigeon hole (i know its hard not to on this forum).

[samran]

Thai law does not recognize dual citizenship, but in usual applications, it does not seem to be a problem ie. always enter and leave Thai territory under the same passport. Please be careful if your male child is of age to be conscripted into the army. As for the person who wonders about putting the house in a child's name, you should contact a law office such as Sunbelt Asia. This is not a plug for them, but they may be able to point you in the right direction. You can(100%) put the building(house) in your name because this is what I have done with my place in Krung Thep. The document you need is an ufrustuct(horrible spelling) from the Khet or Amphur office BEFORE the land title is transferred! This gives you right of abode until you die. The land/house cannot be sold without your permission. I own my house and my wife owns the land. Since we have 4 children, I have no worries after I am dead.

nonsense you dont need expensive sunbelt just do paperwork at land office as we did years ago but if i remember both parents had to sign several forms It is really easy. The point about a male is very valid if a male does not do his national service and hes meant to then he cant get a Thai passport.

two incorrect posts in a row.

Thai law explicitly recognises that people can have more than one citizenship. There are clauses within the Nationality act which specifically talk about circumstances with dual citizenship can handle renouncing Thai citizenship, if they so wish.

But, having more than one citizenship is not problematic under Thai law.

As for not doing national service being a barrier to get a Thai passport, utter Tosh. All you need to get a Thai passport is a Thai birth certificate (if living overseas) or an ID card if living in Thailand. No certifcation that you've done military service is needed.

I've never needed to show my military exemption certificate for anything, except during appling for my wife's Thai citizenship.

Anyway, back to the moan-fest. Quite ironic, as farang's in most cases are treated much better under Thai law, and with more deference, than the average poor Thai citizen. But what would I know?

Not gonna moan, but not sure that the last part of your post is as black and white as you make out. I'm sure we all remember the case of the young girl (from a very well connected Thai family) who had the car accident and killed 8 - 9 people. I think the consequence for the girl might have been different had she been Burmese. The OP is about the rights of Foreigners - Not farangs - just to be clear. Certain groups of foreigners are treated far worse than the poor average Thai. Lets not pigeon hole (i know its hard not to on this forum).

...and I am sure that this seminar is going to be attendend by thousands of Burmese.

You have a point nonetheless. A good one too.

[saraburioz]

WOW!!!

"Foreigner's rights in LOS"??? Bombastic!!

And in Pattaya - come on

[terryp]

OK this is a great opportunity for you all.

This is NOT the first time that something like this has happened. But it is the first time that it is free.

Back in 2005 I attended a "Legal Guidance for Foreigners" seminar in Bangkok.

It was excellant, and a big thank you to the faculty of law at the Dhurakij Pundit University for holding it. It taught me a lot.

We foreigners DO have rights. And it works.

Those cynics amongst you can poo poo this idea, and that is why you are always going to lose.

If this free seminar is half as good as the one that I attended - get your butts down there.

LOL you obviously attended a different seminar than i did .. a complete wast of time and money, officials from the relevant dept inc the BOI that knew less than i did, every single question i asked no one knew the answer.

40 minutes were taken up by a Japanese guy who asked do i need a work permit if i use my lap top in my hotel room?????

But you did get a nice big book of papers and some reasonable buffet to network while eating.

Like everything in Thailand ..all show and no meat, anyone who believes this will help foreigners rights is a fool..that will only happen with pressure from Foreign Governments connected to trade restrictions.

Just to clarify Foreigners have absolutely few rights here ...and they comprise of giving money , keeping quiet and of course LEAVING.

To the guy asking about the unborn child and property..... your child has NO rights until it's first breath of Thai air that includes opening a bank account as it does not have an id or a tabien Bahn listing.

[saraburioz]

For those of you who think we have no rights this is your chance to air those thoughts with constructive questions.

Post them here and I'm sure the non offensive/racist ones will be put forward.

I have one question -

My wife is about to give birth to our first child. We are hoping to buy a house soon can we put the house in his name now? Or do we have to wait until he is older?

thailand

yes our 2 children have owned property since they were a few years old But it cant be sold without a court order until they are 20. Minors can own property here and their is no trust law in

Why on earth marry a woman that you don't trust and have your child? My wife would be highly offended if I suggested such a thing.

[Artisi]

Interesting that 5 criminal court judges are on the panel - do you think that this might mean something?

[jonclark]

...and I am sure that this seminar is going to be attendend by thousands of Burmese.

You have a point nonetheless. A good one too.

Maybe the Burmese should attend. I'm sure the panel would get quite a shock and it would make for an interesting afternoon. lol

[EyesWideOpen]

The most odd part of this story is that it even has come up. Rights is perhaps the wrong choice of word anyway. The concept is really full protection and equal treatment in the eyes of the law. Under the laws of a developed country which I am sure Thailand considers itself to be, a foreigner will be treated EXACTLY the same as a citizen. The universal exception will of course be voting, and in Thailand's case the exception of buying land. So when a wealthy Thai flies to America, he will enjoy all the protection of the laws, EXACTLY the same as an American citizen. And of course he cannot vote. And of course he can buy all the land he wants.......

[dumpling]

OK this is a great opportunity for you all.

This is NOT the first time that something like this has happened. But it is the first time that it is free.

Back in 2005 I attended a "Legal Guidance for Foreigners" seminar in Bangkok.

It was excellant, and a big thank you to the faculty of law at the Dhurakij Pundit University for holding it. It taught me a lot.

We foreigners DO have rights. And it works.

Those cynics amongst you can poo poo this idea, and that is why you are always going to lose.

If this free seminar is half as good as the one that I attended - get your butts down there.

Good advice , save the pontificating for after the seminar if you must.

[hpwheelman]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

The policeman story pops up every time a foreigner wants to express here his/hers enthousiasm for living in Thailand. Interesting.

Interestingly enough, when I was stationed in Japan, as a military police officer, I responded to many traffic accidents. The general consensus there in Japan was that if the foreigner was not here, the accident would not have happened. I have seen many people charged with offences that they would never have been charged with had they been

Japanese for this simple reason. Only with properly ranked individuals would this rule be different. On the flip side, there were many TA's that were very much caused by foreigner's who did not know or did not respect the local laws. Not to even begin on the DUI/DWI or just plain old drunk and disorderly cases.

Basically I am saying that it may not be the case every time, but it does happen, and more then you may think.

[hpwheelman]

I do have a legitimate question concerning the right to work.

I am a student at a well respected Thai University, working on getting my bachelors degree. What are the specifics about my right to work in Thailand? I have been told I could work up to 20 hours a week without a work permit, but I haven't been able to find that in writing.

[konaboy]

Why all the negative responses? We have opted to be in LOS, so let us see what is being said with an open, and (maybe) positive mindset!

Well said-If all farangs educated themselves and stood up together, things would change! There are too many of us here to ignore-No more divide and conquer-.Why don't we have a large showing at this meeting-Noyes is on it--Lets see a little attitude change and see .what happens! Can't b any worse.

[buddy]

The current laws are "tourist" laws....the Thais dont want foriegners in Thailand permanently.

Unless I see changes to ownership rights of property and businesses they can talk to eternity because nothing will change until that happens.

[Replogle]

The current laws are "tourist" laws....the Thais dont want foriegners in Thailand permanently.

Unless I see changes to ownership rights of property and businesses they can talk to eternity because nothing will change until that happens.

I'm curious to know if Thais wish to own Foreign Public Debt permanently. As an American fathering children here, who constantly feels uneasy about domestic laws pertaining to me, it only makes sense that the reduction of my self-worth in Thailand is matched only by the value of Thailand's US treasuries holdings. Deporting 30% of their value in dollar terms shall do just nicely, thank you.

[JRinger]

I honestly applaud the effort as foreigners do have rights - But whilst this may be sound in theory. In practice it fails as most Thais believe that Foreigners have no rights under the law and until the Thai population at large is (re) educated to understand that , shock, horror, we have rights too, nothing in practice will change.

That is a two way street. If you will read the posts so far you will notice that what you say the Thais believe is also what the majority of the posters so far believe.

It would be interesting to here some honest opinions on the subject. I have a skeptical outlook on the opinion of people who constantly belittle Thai's. I find it easy to not do that by realizing I am in another country by choice.

Part of the reason I chose to live here is because they are different here. If I tried to judge them on them not being like back where I came from I would be with the Thai basher's in a heartbeat. And shortly after that on my way back to where I came from.

No my post was not about belittling and bemoaning Thais. It was about stating fact. We have rights which are guaranteed by law, however most Thais are unaware of the law, which was written by Thais for all people living in Thailand. All I'm saying is that perhaps Thais should educate themselves about the laws they themselves wrote (especially those involved in the enforcement of the law). Being in Thailand by choice is irrelevant as these laws should be applied to all people in Thailand whether or not they are here by choice or otherwise.

My post was aimed at promoting awareness amongst Thais of their own laws.

Edit. As part of the broader picture; this awareness should help Thais understand their legal rights as well and prevent them from being exploited and feeling powerless.

Maybe you should mount some loudspeakers on your truck and drive around through all the villages reminding the Thai's of their rights and how they should treat foreigner's. I've seen very fews laws enforced here except for criminal acts.

If you live here and think you have any rights you're dreaming although on the other hand, if you live a quiet life and do your best to avoid stepping on toes and making noise, you may end up living in peace.

[BlueSmurf]

Ok its a start but laws have to inforced by people who uphold the law and not make it up as they go alone i.e. BIB....How the hell this will help Joe Blogs the next time he is scammed hereI do not know.<deleted> they cannot even stop the Jet Ski scams in Patts and Phuket and that damages the FACE of Thailand...

[Arkady]

It's a great idea to have a seminar like this. It promotes a lot of discussion as well as throwing up useful information, as well as potentially a lot of misinformation. Sadly, a similar initiative that took place in Bangkok and Chiang Mai (see thread on the Chiang Mai one) involved government officials who used the opportunity to provide a lot of half truths and some untruths. For example: they gave detailed information on applying for permanent residence without mentioning that the process has ground to a halt since 2006; they talked about the ability of foreigners to inherit up to a rai of residential land, as if this were an every day occurrence, without mentioning that it requires the approval of the Interior Minister which is not known to have been given within living memory; they talked about forcing foreigners applying for Thai nationality to renounce their existing nationality without mentioning that they have no legal power to do this.

In sum let's hope the seminar provides practical insight in the legal position of foreigners, rather than a platform for government officials to promote a deliberately distorted view of things by providing just the letter of the law without explaining how it works in reality.

[hellodolly]

I honestly applaud the effort as foreigners do have rights - But whilst this may be sound in theory. In practice it fails as most Thais believe that Foreigners have no rights under the law and until the Thai population at large is (re) educated to understand that , shock, horror, we have rights too, nothing in practice will change.

That is a two way street. If you will read the posts so far you will notice that what you say the Thais believe is also what the majority of the posters so far believe.

It would be interesting to here some honest opinions on the subject. I have a skeptical outlook on the opinion of people who constantly belittle Thai's. I find it easy to not do that by realizing I am in another country by choice.

Part of the reason I chose to live here is because they are different here. If I tried to judge them on them not being like back where I came from I would be with the Thai basher's in a heartbeat. And shortly after that on my way back to where I came from.

No my post was not about belittling and bemoaning Thais. It was about stating fact. We have rights which are guaranteed by law, however most Thais are unaware of the law, which was written by Thais for all people living in Thailand. All I'm saying is that perhaps Thais should educate themselves about the laws they themselves wrote (especially those involved in the enforcement of the law). Being in Thailand by choice is irrelevant as these laws should be applied to all people in Thailand whether or not they are here by choice or otherwise.

My post was aimed at promoting awareness amongst Thais of their own laws.

Edit. As part of the broader picture; this awareness should help Thais understand their legal rights as well and prevent them from being exploited and feeling powerless.

Well what you say is true what I say is also true most Foreigners do not know they have rights. Most of the posts to this point are aimed at that. Yes there has been few posts pointing out some of there rights. But far from the majority.

Would suggest you find a Thai forum to promote Thais understanding their own laws. I know there are some Thais here but I think they pretty well understand their laws. Well as much as we understand are own laws. We may know what they are but are clueless to understand them we have to get lawyers to explain them.

[englishinsiam]

Why on earth marry a woman that you don't trust and have your child? My wife would be highly offended if I suggested such a thing.

I trust my wife with my life.

[exbelg]

off course we have rights: the rights to spend (most of your) money, pay taxes, social security and beg each year that your stay might get extended for another 12 months

no more money (400k in the bank) or job and it's bye bye for you

even you have wife/children/condo/car/...

I think if we farang do not get any rights and threated like 2nd class citizen, our home countries would repay Thais by not allowing them to buy land, leave country if not enough $$$ every year on their bankaccount, have no jobs...

that would be called: EQUAL rights

[Cuban]

Might this be a better lecture series for the whole country conducted in Thai?

Foreigners have rights not to be over charged, automatically assumed the guilty party in any road accident, the list is endless...

Start with dual pricing and jet skis, until then don't hold your breath.

[falangjim]

I guess I'm glad I don't own a jet ski. Is that what this is all about? Paying more for a jet ski? I've seen the scams on Drummond's site. Interesting stuff. Still, I don't own a jet ski. The meeting does sound like a good idea, a step in the right direction. Lived here a combined three years and just like in my own country, have not had much of a run in with the law other than a speeding ticket in Ohio. I was pick pocketed once on the BTS and Thai police did all they could, but I was realistic in not expecting a petty crime like this to be solved. This is Thailand, not South Korea where your wallet is returned to you by the locals. I rent an apartment so no issues there. My wife is Thai and I have seen her family become the victim of corrupt cops trying to extort money from them for a crime my in-law committed. (I know the police are corrupt. Probably should start there) I don't drive but taxi drivers have been knowledgeable and for the most part pleasant. If they don't use a meter, I step out. No anger or questions asked. I'm always amazed at the cynicism posted here on TV sometimes. I feel like I need a shower after reading some of the vile posts. Is this what it's become for some (glug glug)? Not happy? (glug, glug) I love being here. I keep waiting for the other foot to fall as if somehow my very loyal thai wife will magically produce a thai husband, my account suddenly drained and two men in brown standing outside my door ready to toss me off a balcony. I'm still waiting..I suspect I will be for a very long time.

[maloyd1]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.

[puipuitom]

After 18 years experience with Thailand thought the only rights a farang has in Thailand is to spend his/her money as quick as possible and keep his / her mouth shut.