Foreigners' Rights Under Thai Law Seminar Announced

[Dag]

I'd happily let my son do National Service, I think it should be brought back into Britain it'll teach some of the young some manners and respect.

Thanks for the advise though guys.

You are aware of the armed forces here...the ones with the experience and knowledge...the leaders.....were the ones that sent the rookies into the front line at last years turmoil in Bangkok right ??

I treasure my children way to much to send them into armed service in this country..

[livinginthericepatties]

did i read on here that if your a thai guy married to a foreign women..no problem to have your foreign wife become a duel citizen, i have invested 6 million baht MORE IF WEEEKLY EXPENSES ADDED IN ,,in thailand since 2002..been here 4 years ..getting real tired of the laws..its long overdue for thailand to start either a permenent res. or for foreigners to become duel citizens like my wife..without all the problems and jumping through hoops ..even this idea to buy a motorcyle,car,condo,driver lic..etc,,that you have to get permission first ..is a dam_n joke..just went to im..2 days ago to renew my visa..and they had a guy before me who was there to get permission to buy a car..and the im..even said that it was crazy,

[samran]

did i read on here that if your a thai guy married to a foreign women..no problem to have your foreign wife become a duel citizen, i have invested 6 million baht MORE IF WEEEKLY EXPENSES ADDED IN ,,in thailand since 2002..been here 4 years ..getting real tired of the laws..its long overdue for thailand to start either a permenent res. or for foreigners to become duel citizens like my wife..without all the problems and jumping through hoops ..even this idea to buy a motorcyle,car,condo,driver lic..etc,,that you have to get permission first ..is a dam_n joke..just went to im..2 days ago to renew my visa..and they had a guy before me who was there to get permission to buy a car..and the im..even said that it was crazy,

Hardly. My wife applied at the start of 2008. Still waiting.

And you have exactly the same right to apply, just like she did.

[hellodolly]

off course we have rights: the rights to spend (most of your) money, pay taxes, social security and beg each year that your stay might get extended for another 12 months

no more money (400k in the bank) or job and it's bye bye for you

even you have wife/children/condo/car/...

I think if we farang do not get any rights and threated like 2nd class citizen, our home countries would repay Thais by not allowing them to buy land, leave country if not enough $$ every year on their bankaccount, have no jobs...

that would be called: EQUAL rights

You knew the rules when you sat into the game. What ever possed you to think they were going to change them.

.

I don't know what country you are from but I am betting it is not easy for a Thai to get a retirement visa there. Heck just to get a visitors visa for a Thai to North America is not that easy to do.

[hellodolly]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.

Great post yours and the preceding one by falongjim restored my faith in expats.

For the life of me I can not understand why some of the posters put up with the conditions they continual describe here. They must feel like saints.:jap:

[kuffki]

off course we have rights: the rights to spend (most of your) money, pay taxes, social security and beg each year that your stay might get extended for another 12 months

no more money (400k in the bank) or job and it's bye bye for you

even you have wife/children/condo/car/...

I think if we farang do not get any rights and threated like 2nd class citizen, our home countries would repay Thais by not allowing them to buy land, leave country if not enough $ every year on their bankaccount, have no jobs...

that would be called: EQUAL rights

You knew the rules when you sat into the game. What ever possed you to think they were going to change them.

.

I don't know what country you are from but I am betting it is not easy for a Thai to get a retirement visa there. Heck just to get a visitors visa for a Thai to North America is not that easy to do.

Did you rules come attached with your retirement visa? i guess they misplaced mine when i arrived and also forgot to put one in when i registered the company

For a Thai with money or stable income is not problem to get a visa into any country.

For a Thai to retire in another country is also not a problem if he/she can show he/she has the means to support his/her self, because other countries offer same protection, rights and apply law to all citizens and tourists and expats equally.

Some countries will also pay benefits and support should one be ill, while in Thailand expat is on his own no matter what happens.

[kuffki]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.

Your post is total and utter bs.

Police do not attend accidents unless someone is injured.

Should police arrive at the scene of an accident and no one is injured, first question they will ask is if you have insurance. If the answer is yes, they advise you to call it and leave. If the answer is no and you are a foreigner, they make you go to police station and make you pay(especially when witnesses put a blame on you)

They certainly do not call out senior officer to the scene to determine who is at fault of damaged bumper bar

[Richard4849]

Someone please ask about dual pricing for nationals/foreigners, both by private businesses (ie., Crocodile Farms and the like) and by the government (National Parks), and ask how that can be reconciled with the Thai Constitution which guarantees freedom from discrimination based on race, religion, ethnicity, and national origin.

[MAJIC]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.

"The cost was waived as the Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet"

Does that mean that you paid for the repairs? or nobody did? or was it free for the guilty driver?

[whybother]

...and I am sure that this seminar is going to be attendend by thousands of Burmese.

You have a point nonetheless. A good one too.

Maybe the Burmese should attend. I'm sure the panel would get quite a shock and it would make for an interesting afternoon. lol

The Burmese might have a bit of trouble given the seminar will be conducted in English.

[Richard4849]

The average Burmese speaks English better than the average Thai!

[tailspin]

rights are overrated....you have the right to remain silent on this though

[tailspin]

sounds like you fell for the old "I only have 200 baht in my wallet trick"......u shudda asked to see his other wallet

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.

"The cost was waived as the Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet"

Does that mean that you paid for the repairs? or nobody did? or was it free for the guilty driver?

[Thai at Heart]

I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............

Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.

Indeed, I had 3 girls on a motorcycle drive straight into the front wing of my car trying to cross a road which had a sign explicitly stating left turn only.

They lost it completely with me, claiming I was doing this and that wrong, which I handled well enough in Thai. They claimed I was speeding, I wasn't. They claimed I was on the phone, I wasn't. They tried every BS line to put the fault on me. The fact that they drove and ended up lying on the bonnet of my car proved they tried to rush between cars without looking.

When the police arrived, he simply stated that they were in the wrong. They had no insurance, but he issued me with a statement that the accident wasn't my fault at all, so my insurance covered it completely.

It can be a hit and miss affair, but when I have been stopped for speeding, generally I have been speeding, so I don't complain too much. In the few times I have had to deal with the police in nearly 20 years in the country, they have solved a couple of cases of petty theft pretty rapidly. A friend of mine had his stepdaughter run away, everyone was frantic. The coppers put out a search and found her within 2 days. My kids once tried to walk themselves home, thinking my wife had forgotten to pick them up. She raced out onto the intersection in town and told the copper they were lost. Found them in 10 minutes.

Friend of mine got robbed in Chiangmai, laptops, phones all gone. They found the thieves in 2 days and everything was returned.

So it isn't all bad out there. I find, that when it comes to legal rights it gets complicated, because then you are dealing with the entire legal system and this is basically bribeable.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[Chopperboy]

The most odd part of this story is that it even has come up. Rights is perhaps the wrong choice of word anyway. The concept is really full protection and equal treatment in the eyes of the law. Under the laws of a developed country which I am sure Thailand considers itself to be, a foreigner will be treated EXACTLY the same as a citizen. The universal exception will of course be voting, and in Thailand's case the exception of buying land. So when a wealthy Thai flies to America, he will enjoy all the protection of the laws, EXACTLY the same as an American citizen. And of course he cannot vote. And of course he can buy all the land he wants.......

I believe that rights to own land, property and acquire citizenship should be reciprocal. i.e. if a foreign national can come and buy land in your country then you should be able to buy land and get residency in their country. Residency was meant to be reciprocal, but the Thais haven't issued one since 2006! The Middle East and Asians are generally getting richer, so there is no excuse blaming disparities of income.

[Dag]

It would be nice to see some decent changes for foreigners perhaps on certain visa or that have been here for xx number of years or have family and kids etc etc........but I shall not be holding my breath.

[hammered]

I guess I'm glad I don't own a jet ski. Is that what this is all about? Paying more for a jet ski? I've seen the scams on Drummond's site. Interesting stuff. Still, I don't own a jet ski. The meeting does sound like a good idea, a step in the right direction. Lived here a combined three years and just like in my own country, have not had much of a run in with the law other than a speeding ticket in Ohio. I was pick pocketed once on the BTS and Thai police did all they could, but I was realistic in not expecting a petty crime like this to be solved. This is Thailand, not South Korea where your wallet is returned to you by the locals. I rent an apartment so no issues there. My wife is Thai and I have seen her family become the victim of corrupt cops trying to extort money from them for a crime my in-law committed. (I know the police are corrupt. Probably should start there) I don't drive but taxi drivers have been knowledgeable and for the most part pleasant. If they don't use a meter, I step out. No anger or questions asked. I'm always amazed at the cynicism posted here on TV sometimes. I feel like I need a shower after reading some of the vile posts. Is this what it's become for some (glug glug)? Not happy? (glug, glug) I love being here. I keep waiting for the other foot to fall as if somehow my very loyal thai wife will magically produce a thai husband, my account suddenly drained and two men in brown standing outside my door ready to toss me off a balcony. I'm still waiting..I suspect I will be for a very long time.

Mention of Drummond and Noyes on the same thread. That could be interesting.

Anyway back on topic. It is always good that people know their rights.

[Dag]

How about ....are police allowed to take your licence and keep it when pulled over to pay a fine...especially if you are not from that area and then have to travel all the way there to pay it again.Can you pay these fines elsewhere....such as you can pay electric bills at 7/11 etc.

[Jobo]

I'd happily let my son do National Service, I think it should be brought back into Britain it'll teach some of the young some manners and respect.

Thanks for the advise though guys.

I would not look forward to my luk krung son doing "national service" in Thailand. He has dual citizenship now and we propose to give up the Thai

before he's old enough to be conscripted.

I could not think of anything worse that I would allow him to be subjected to, as while he is Thai he doesn't look at all Thai.

I dare say that he might be subjected to the worst the army had to offer.

In my home country I would probably not object though I am far from a military sympathiser.

[samran]

...and I am sure that this seminar is going to be attendend by thousands of Burmese.

You have a point nonetheless. A good one too.

Maybe the Burmese should attend. I'm sure the panel would get quite a shock and it would make for an interesting afternoon. lol

The Burmese might have a bit of trouble given the seminar will be conducted in English.

I think the Burmese would get a lot more out of it than some of the whingers we see here on this thread...

And yes, many of them have pretty decent English, Thai and in some cases, Hindi.

[samran]

I'd happily let my son do National Service, I think it should be brought back into Britain it'll teach some of the young some manners and respect.

Thanks for the advise though guys.

I would not look forward to my luk krung son doing "national service" in Thailand. He has dual citizenship now and we propose to give up the Thai

before he's old enough to be conscripted.

I could not think of anything worse that I would allow him to be subjected to, as while he is Thai he doesn't look at all Thai.

I dare say that he might be subjected to the worst the army had to offer.

In my home country I would probably not object though I am far from a military sympathiser.

I think you'd be doing your son a great disservice as a Thai dual citizen myself. Additionally, being the child of a foreign parent, the only time he can renounce his Thai citizenship is between 20 and 21...too late as I recall to avoid the national service lotto.

Plenty of legit legal ways that he can partake in to ensure he doesn't have to do 2 years boot camp.

Edited August 2, 2011 by samran

[Jobo]

I'd happily let my son do National Service, I think it should be brought back into Britain it'll teach some of the young some manners and respect.

Thanks for the advise though guys.

I would not look forward to my luk krung son doing "national service" in Thailand. He has dual citizenship now and we propose to give up the Thai

before he's old enough to be conscripted.

I could not think of anything worse that I would allow him to be subjected to, as while he is Thai he doesn't look at all Thai.

I dare say that he might be subjected to the worst the army had to offer.

In my home country I would probably not object though I am far from a military sympathiser.

I think you'd be doing your son a great disservice as a Thai dual citizen myself. Additionally, being the child of a foreign parent, the only time he can renounce his Thai citizenship is between 20 and 21...too late as I recall to avoid the national service lotto.

Plenty of legit legal ways that he can partake in to ensure he doesn't have to do 2 years boot camp.

Yes you are correct but he won't be living in Thailand when he's 21 - 22 and so it would most like be renounced offshore.

BTW what are the other legit ways of avoiding it?

[samran]

I'd happily let my son do National Service, I think it should be brought back into Britain it'll teach some of the young some manners and respect.

Thanks for the advise though guys.

I would not look forward to my luk krung son doing "national service" in Thailand. He has dual citizenship now and we propose to give up the Thai

before he's old enough to be conscripted.

I could not think of anything worse that I would allow him to be subjected to, as while he is Thai he doesn't look at all Thai.

I dare say that he might be subjected to the worst the army had to offer.

In my home country I would probably not object though I am far from a military sympathiser.

I think you'd be doing your son a great disservice as a Thai dual citizen myself. Additionally, being the child of a foreign parent, the only time he can renounce his Thai citizenship is between 20 and 21...too late as I recall to avoid the national service lotto.

Plenty of legit legal ways that he can partake in to ensure he doesn't have to do 2 years boot camp.

Yes you are correct but he won't be living in Thailand when he's 21 - 22 and so it would most like be renounced offshore.

BTW what are the other legit ways of avoiding it?

Other legit ways: well he'll be living offshore and unable to attend is a good one. Perfectly acceptable. That is what I did.

In the year he turns 30, he'll automatically be exempted (as happened to me). He'll be issued an exemption certificate by the conscription office when he 'does' turn up as a 30 year old, and that will be done.

He can still apply for a Thai passport and travel to/from Thailand with no issue up to age 30.

If living in Thailand to get around it he can:

- do cadets during high school (one afternoon per week for three years). Fund and games and a chance to get out of school for the average teenager.

- if he doesn't do cadets at high school, university education is a reason for deferal. He can still do cadets during uni.

- if he still hasn't done cadets by graduation, to avoid the lottery he can volunteer for 6 months in lieu of conscription. A lot of well of Thai's actually do this one as a bit of a military experience can be seen as a 'good' thing/asset amongst polite circles.

[Tomtomtom69]

Why shouldn't foreigners have rights in Thailand when Thais and other minorities constantly fight for theirs in the west? Then again, maybe it's because most westerners in Thailand are not well organized and come from many different countries rather than a single one and therefore have trouble trying to find common ground. Still, i think it's in the best interests of everyone that lives in Thailand that everyone should be treated equally and foreigners should get what they are entitled to. The only way of ensuring you are heard is to band together and demand certain rights that you are not currently getting in a legitimate and reasonable fashion. However, it doesn't help when some foreigners shun each other only because they believe other foreigners are ruining their "Thai experience" just due to the mere presence of another foreigner in their town or area or because some foreigners are not particularly helpful to each other in general, preferring only to do what they need to get ahead for themselves.

Therefore, let's hope concrete changes will be made to ensure the rights of foreigners living in Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

Jobo, sorry to hear about what you believe your son would be subject to, were he to be conscripted into the Thai army, which according to the tone of your article would probably imply some sort of racial discrimination (given his physical appearence as you say). While Thailand is a fairly tolerant society, you have every right to decide whether your son should or shouldn't go into the army, so I think you should consider the advice of these other posters as to possible ways to avoid military service, rather than giving up on Thai nationality in order to get past it. There is good reason to keep Thai nationality unless your son has no desire to ever return to live in Thailand and therefore only at most, visit Thailand as a tourist (i.e. for family reunions etc.). But don't even think of giving up on Thai citizenship and then have him continue to live here, as that would make his life unnecessarily difficult (i.e. unless the law changes in the future, that would mean increased charges for entering national parks, some temples and museums etc., the inability to work in a job that requires local citizenship and the inability to own land amongst other things).

[Dag]

Anyone know of any thai/foreign kids actually being conscripted ??

Once in the army can't he then go all the way through and become a General ??

Do you think anyone would want a foreigner as a General ??

[samran]

Anyone know of any thai/foreign kids actually being conscripted ??

Once in the army can't he then go all the way through and become a General ??

Do you think anyone would want a foreigner as a General ??

um, that 'General' will be Thai. It has less to do with ethnicity and more to do with what class you graduated from.

But you can go back to your 'everyone hates us' world.

[Dag]

Anyone know of any thai/foreign kids actually being conscripted ??

Once in the army can't he then go all the way through and become a General ??

Do you think anyone would want a foreigner as a General ??

um, that 'General' will be Thai. It has less to do with ethnicity and more to do with what class you graduated from.

But you can go back to your 'everyone hates us' world.

hate to correct you...but he will be half Thai.

you seem to have a chip on your shoulder in that last comment.....

[samran]

Anyone know of any thai/foreign kids actually being conscripted ??

Once in the army can't he then go all the way through and become a General ??

Do you think anyone would want a foreigner as a General ??

um, that 'General' will be Thai. It has less to do with ethnicity and more to do with what class you graduated from.

But you can go back to your 'everyone hates us' world.

hate to correct you...but he will be half Thai.

you seem to have a chip on your shoulder in that last comment.....

a Thai ID card says you are Thai, then you are Thai.

Ethnicity is a different kettle of fish.

[Trembly]

I would echo Samran's sentiments. As a loog-kreung myself I can verify from experience that Thai culture in the military, the government and society at large is geared towards acceptance rather than rejection. Put it this way, if an unmixed Chinese-Thai, unmixed Indian-Thai or halfling of any mix is an utter plonker then his racial make-up could be considered fair game for grief. If he is a good egg then he can use his race(s) to his advantage where appropriate and his peers will support it.

I doubt those who have had close contact with blue or green suits will be surprised about this.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Trembly