Recruiters Warn On Bt300 Pay Hike

[tragickingdom]

As always, do not pay attention to any Thai male who makes a calculation. A increase in wage costs does not translate in an equal rise of the production costs. Even Charoen Pokhand one of Thailand's biggest conglomerates and yellow shirt sponsor agrees that 300 baht is a decent amount as salaries for the bottom end has hardly risen in a decade. Thailand is Asia's most unequal society when it comes to wealth. Unless Thai entrepreneurs do acknowledge that they are far inferior to their Chinese counterparts they should shut up. The minimum wage in China is still considerably higher than the 300 Baht in Thailand.

Add the shocking low wages to the dismal mentality of tax paying by the rich and you know why some people can drive a benz while they make on paper less money than their weekly petrol bill.

[kanderson]

I don't hear economists in the US complaining about minimum wage laws.

Actually there are quite a few politicians and economists who argue against its benefits.

Michele Bachmann is not an economist and is arguably nuts, but:

As if life were not hard enough for millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet in a soft economy, GOP presidential candidate Michele BachmannMichele Bachmann appears ready to make things worse. Bachman supports getting rid of minimum wage.

In the Minnesota State Senate in 2005, Bachmann said, "Literally, if we took away the minimum wage - if conceivably it was gone - we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level," according to Bloomberg.

http://www.allvoices...ease-us-poverty

and economic policy advocates who say such things as:

Don't Raise the Minimum Wage - The Bar Is Already Too High

With phrases such as "Giving America a Raise" and "Making Work Pay," the forces behind recent proposals to increase the federal minimum wage beyond its current level of $5.15 an hour suggest that they are looking out for today's poor working men and women. Truth be told, however, increasing the minimum wage is a misguided and wrong-headed policy that will do far more to hurt the poor than to help them.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba270

I didn't check out all the links - and I'm sure it;'s the same thing we learn in ECON 101 - minimum wage does all the wrong stuff. We know this.

We are taught this in Econ 101 .

For me it's getting beyond that I guess. Is it just one sided ?

[cdnvic]

Removed a post that was all in caps.

Seriously, who doesn't know by now that isn't allowed anywhere?

[edgarfriendly]

many hands make light work...

too many cooks spoil the broth...

or even better, good old, mai pen rai...

how many useless staff are gonna be back at home watching tv for a living?

my guess is not enough.

if employers indeed become 'more scrupulous' when hiring 'staff' will the efficiency improve? have they ever been scrupulous in the least??

only 3-4 'staff' to take 3 times as long to poorly accomplish anything that would have taken 8-12 'staff' just as long to equally poorly accomplish.

mai pen rai/lai, blame someone else.

im busy watching someone else 'work'

im glad to see the idiocy/simplicity/naiievety is still evidently both the HOW and the WHY that china have pwned this place since forever.

i reckon armed robbery and violent crime in general is about to 'explode'

hopefully the army will roll out and wipe the scavenging masses from our sight...

but then what will we do with the 3% of police that are left after the purge??

or was i being sarcastic....

20+ staff that all need to ask someone else ad infinitum gets boring after a decade

ef

[WithMarco]

so you guys want people to work for 12hrs a day for a pittance in order to make you rich, how's that different from slavery or outsourcing to burma and laos ?

and then you wonder why Thaksin won by a landslide ?

[kanderson]

Any pay rise sounds good in the short term but I have a few worries with this idea.

After a few months wouldn't the only thing that happens be that employers fire some of their staff and that inflation makes the 300 baht of today the 200 baht of tomorrow. What I mean here is that in six months the workers would have gained nothing and some would have lost their jobs. I'm not an economist however, but it seems relevant to me that if you're going to raise wages throughout the country you should factor in inflation and how that is going to effect the pay increase. It might make the whole exercise pointless apart from the PR gained of course.

You don't factor in relevant things into "A SOUND-BITE" designed to get you elected, do you!! This was intended to make the poor think that their wealth was going to increase when in fact the reverse will happen. The government will pay for it's reckless promises in the long run however as if they implement this nationwide in one go they will create inflation, reduce their cost of living in having to pay more for food and fuel and many of them will lose their jobs!!!

I bet that this is not what they bargained for when they voted for Pheu Thai (at face value) but they had better be ready for it as it will hit them like a bombshell when it descends upon them!!

I agree some what, (do you :-) !!)

Maybe it's a clear market correction whos time has come.

One of govenments jobs is to help in the redistribution of income.

It hasen't worked out as a bombshell for other countries - or has it ?

[whybother]

so you guys want people to work for 12hrs a day for a pittance in order to make you rich, how's that different from slavery or outsourcing to burma and laos ?

and then you wonder why Thaksin won by a landslide ?

Thaksin won in a landslide, because a lot of people (much like yourself) don't listen to what's being said.

[kanderson]

many hands make light work...

too many cooks spoil the broth...

or even better, good old, mai pen rai...

how many useless staff are gonna be back at home watching tv for a living?

my guess is not enough.

if employers indeed become 'more scrupulous' when hiring 'staff' will the efficiency improve? have they ever been scrupulous in the least??

only 3-4 'staff' to take 3 times as long to poorly accomplish anything that would have taken 8-12 'staff' just as long to equally poorly accomplish.

mai pen rai/lai, blame someone else.

im busy watching someone else 'work'

im glad to see the idiocy/simplicity/naiievety is still evidently both the HOW and the WHY that china have pwned this place since forever.

i reckon armed robbery and violent crime in general is about to 'explode'

hopefully the army will roll out and wipe the scavenging masses from our sight...

but then what will we do with the 3% of police that are left after the purge??

or was i being sarcastic....

20+ staff that all need to ask someone else ad infinitum gets boring after a decade

ef

I love that - Too many cooks - many hands - perfect english stuff.

We all might benefit from understanding Buddist ways more.

Now there is a job for everyone.

Put yourself in someone elses shoes.

You can become Budda like.

It's a life long thing.

[ozzieovaseas]

Professor!! my foot!! NB: I'm not sure whether there is a hint of sarcasm involved here or whether you actually believe this!!!

The only things that the minimum wage will do is to push up unemployment to levels not seen in a generation on account of immigrants from Cambodia (primarily) taking advantage of Yingluck's foolish promises in order to get elected. I have seen 1 million quoted as being the number of Cambodians applying to work in the Kingdom within days of the election outcome. Allied to this, the inflation rate, interest rates, strength of the baht and cost of living will all rise inexorably and the employment rate amongst Thai's, business competitiveness, exports, living standards and the nation's prosperity will all fall, depressingly.

I wonder just how many of those Thai's who voted Pheu Thai understood this. I think you could take that they voted for it on face value and didn't appreciate the consequences!!!

Gullible Thailand!!!!

If typical female opinion ive heard is anything to go by, the decision was heavily swayed by voting for a "sexy" pooying, instead of the usual method..picking the "most handsome" poochai...and thats about where it starts and ends i reckon.

As for consequences, most probably consider it all anchient history by now anyway and have reverted back to the more important daily issues of where to get the next Somtam from, and which Johnny bought their missus the most gold.

It does put the old "they get the government they deserve" theory into perspective though.

Kind of reminds me of childhood...Lads making billy carts out of spare parts and then taking turns at being pushed down the steepest hill to see if the steering and brakes would work. Usually the wheels fell of first but all you would get was a few bumps and schratches if you were lucky

[ozzieovaseas]

so you guys want people to work for 12hrs a day for a pittance in order to make you rich, how's that different from slavery or outsourcing to burma and laos ?

and then you wonder why Thaksin won by a landslide ?

Actually a lot of people in the west have to do this all their lives, so working 12 hour days to make the old boys rich is not an old concept.

Some of us older guys have had a good trot, we probably had to spend around 20-25% of our total earnings in rent or house payments during our working lives and are lucky to have something to show for it.

Spare a thought for the youth of today..sometimes paying over 40-50% of their earnings into rent or mortgages...they will never own their properties even with both parents working.

The cost of living..daycare through the roof, goods and services sky high, not to mention financial institutions,multinational chains, power and telecommunications companies absolutely taking the p^ss...directors earning 100s of millions in bonuses (even when they fail) while the rest of the other 90% are left to fight over the crumbs

A fella could rant on for hours but the fact is that this whole world is way past its happy days and the one thing..GREED will eat humanity from the inside out

Makes me want to join those boys on the barstool at Sukhumvit 365 a year

[kanderson]

"Not to moles it isn't!! They probably think that house is a peculiar word!!"

I hope the educational systems can continoue to crank out such free thinking.

This is what we need to hear - for example.

Also we can learn to speak other languages before negative thoughts.

Communicative language learning techniqes might help a lot.

(moles and peculiar words excluded) -

I think much of the music from the UK is because of the school system that

might have set them free to express emotions.

I am a big fan of British English too. Mostly the balls it takes to communicate - balls.

Not to wintz words - say it - in plain English.

Great rock and roll stuff too.

It seems that the British boy has the last word - my friend.

Peculiar - nice word

Who knows

Grow a pair -

[kanderson]

so you guys want people to work for 12hrs a day for a pittance in order to make you rich, how's that different from slavery or outsourcing to burma and laos ?

and then you wonder why Thaksin won by a landslide ?

Actually a lot of people in the west have to do this all their lives, so working 12 hour days to make the old boys rich is not an old concept.

Some of us older guys have had a good trot, we probably had to spend around 20-25% of our total earnings in rent or house payments during our working lives and are lucky to have something to show for it.

Spare a thought for the youth of today..sometimes paying over 40-50% of their earnings into rent or mortgages...they will never own their properties even with both parents working.

The cost of living..daycare through the roof, goods and services sky high, not to mention financial institutions,multinational chains, power and telecommunications companies absolutely taking the p^ss...directors earning 100s of millions in bonuses (even when they fail) while the rest of the other 90% are left to fight over the crumbs

A fella could rant on for hours but the fact is that this whole world is way past its happy days and the one thing..GREED will eat humanity from the inside out

Makes me want to join those boys on the barstool at Sukhumvit 365 a year

I think we can become "more Budda like" . Life = some suffering.

Nice english dude !

[bigbamboo]

Increasing the minimum wage on the face of it has merits but as ever there is a downside. Businesses will only pay what they can afford, especially the SMEs which are the ones who will be hardest hit. They will simply have to reduce the number of employees to make ends meet. the big companies will simply raise their p[rices to maintain their profit margins. Another issue is the minimum wage for university graduates where a new intake in the government sector will be paid only 1000 baht less than the average experienced graduate staff. That will not go down well. Nor will the fact that graduates will earn 3500 baht more a month on average than existing higher graded staff. Still, as Pheu Thai says theses were just campaign promises!

[Thaddeus]

I doubt that small SME uses expensive services as interim businesses or educated people so all a lot of fuzz about nothing

I'm trying to pick up British stuff - would that be a storm in a tea cup ?

Yes, or a mountain out of a molehill.

Thanks for the excellent spelling - I got that too = a mountain out of a molehill.

Isn't molehill a perfectly strange word.

I suppose it is a strange word if English isn't your first language.

If you are in to learning these things, another idiom that may be more appropriate here could be....

'You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'

[englishinsiam]

My wife graduated from University 9 years ago and her basic at Pattaya Memorial as a Medical Technologist (Labtech) is just 10,000 Baht a month. She earns 15,000 after overtime and that includes 16 hour nightshifts.

Are we to say that a new snotty nose will come in on a 5,000 a month higher basic?

If thats so then companies won't employ newly graduated unless it's necessary.

This will create a new breed of Unemployed held back by their qualifications.

[TAWP]

I'd go ahead with the minimum wage law.

It's a redistribution of income thing - that is one of governments jobs.

No, it is not a 'redistribution of income thing', unless you mean 'fire the uneducated and increase the salary for the educated'.

But somehow I think that is the opposite of what people want them to do.

[TAWP]

A increase in wage costs does not translate in an equal rise of the production costs.

If no increase in efficiency is implied; yes, it does.

Or please show how it does not and win a 'Ig Nobel Prize' in Economics.

[Roachiebkk]

I love the way the poor Red Shirt wearing rice farmers from upcountry were sucked in completely by this party's ideology about making it fairer for the po' folks up on the farm. Sucked in again....wheres the BBC coming out saying that the struggle was a class struggle, rich of Bangkok against the poor upcountry? First thing this mob do is increase the daily wage of those living in Bangkok. Oh well no need to take life too seriously.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Roachiebkk

[kanderson]

I'd go ahead with the minimum wage law.

It's a redistribution of income thing - that is one of governments jobs.

No, it is not a 'redistribution of income thing', unless you mean 'fire the uneducated and increase the salary for the educated'.

But somehow I think that is the opposite of what people want them to do.

It might be. What I was thinking about was in Economics 101 class - we know the result of a minimum wage law = always bad.

After so many years seeing minimum wage laws in effect - no one is really complaining. - at least from what I've seen.

It goes beyond economics - or something.

[kanderson]

A increase in wage costs does not translate in an equal rise of the production costs.

If no increase in efficiency is implied; yes, it does.

Or please show how it does not and win a 'Ig Nobel Prize' in Economics.

Isn't this Econ 101 revisited. I think other factors must be added in. That might be the hard part.

I know America has minimum wage laws.

Does UK have minimum wage laws ?

[kanderson]

I doubt that small SME uses expensive services as interim businesses or educated people so all a lot of fuzz about nothing

A high proportion of SME's outlay goes on paying it's workers salaries. If they have to increase this to 300 baht a day then it is generally recognised that an appreciable number of them will go out of business as they will be unable to compete with neighbouring countries on selling their export goods (where the labour is far cheaper to employ) and they can lower their prices if need be without impacting too much on the business.

Hardly a "fuzz about nothing".

Firstly, can you let me know the meaning of SME - does it mean small to medium size businesses.

hardly a fuzz about nothing

you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

You guys are killing me - I take it fuzz means fuss.

[whybother]

Firstly, can you let me know the meaning of SME - does it mean small to medium size businesses.

Yes.

You guys are killing me - I take it fuzz means fuss.

Yes. I assume it does anyway. Edited August 2, 2011 by whybother

[dutchweller]

so you guys want people to work for 12hrs a day for a pittance in order to make you rich, how's that different from slavery or outsourcing to burma and laos ?

and then you wonder why Thaksin won by a landslide ?

No I would gladly pay a Thai Worker 2, 3, 4 x the Minimum wage if I got 2,3,4 x the Current output of what they do.

Hell I would pay 5x the minimum wage if I got 3x the output to a 90% acceptable standard and remained productive for a full 8 hours.

Where do you get this 12 hrs a day?

My staff work 8.5 hours every day and have a guaranteed 30 minute (usually Stretched out o 60 minutes) lunch break with quality canteen food provided in an Air conditioned staff canteen.

Edited August 2, 2011 by dutchweller

[tomahawk]

I think there might be many bad effects to minimum wage being raised to 300 baht.

1-Goods will cost more.

2-Many workers will be laid off or replaced by foreign workers.

3-Bangkok business will suffer because why pay more to live in Bangkok when you can live cheaper and save money upcountry.

4-Exports will go down when prices rise.

5-People will have less incentive for education if they make as much without it.

I am not against raising minimum wage, but this is a really big increase in very short time. If 1 person gets a raise, while 3 more become unemployed, is this a good thing?

I am not sure, but to answer some people, no disrespect to anyone's religion, but I myself do not want to be buddha-like, or even buddhist. This does not make someone inferior, I don't think, to not wish to be like Buddha, just as it does not make one inferior if they do. People live in many ways and does not mean this way or that one is better, and really this does not have so much to do about minimum wage.

[Thai at Heart]

Professor!! my foot!! NB: I'm not sure whether there is a hint of sarcasm involved here or whether you actually believe this!!!

The only things that the minimum wage will do is to push up unemployment to levels not seen in a generation on account of immigrants from Cambodia (primarily) taking advantage of Yingluck's foolish promises in order to get elected. I have seen 1 million quoted as being the number of Cambodians applying to work in the Kingdom within days of the election outcome. Allied to this, the inflation rate, interest rates, strength of the baht and cost of living will all rise inexorably and the employment rate amongst Thai's, business competitiveness, exports, living standards and the nation's prosperity will all fall, depressingly.

I wonder just how many of those Thai's who voted Pheu Thai understood this. I think you could take that they voted for it on face value and didn't appreciate the consequences!!!

Gullible Thailand!!!!

Thailand reportedly today has an unemployment rate of under 2%. This is a complete anathema because under-employement is enormous. Just look at your local homepro or central and see the thousands standing around doing essentially nothing on 185 to 215 baht a day. However, don't believe that this idea to raise the wage to 300 hasn't been thought through.

One could look at this extremely cynically and believe there is an idea to ruin the country, or one could look at the demographics of the rural areas and realise that these places are absolutely dying on their feet. I worked in an agricultural company for many years, and the average age of the farmers (husband and wife) that we had supplying us was 46. The kids have left the villages and an enormous amount of them are working in Bangkok eaking out an existence on 200 baht a day. Meanwhile, the factories in Isaan and the North are literally crying out for labour. I know for a fact that a certain shoe manufacturer in central issan already pays more than 300 a day, and cannot find labour. My old company cannot find any new workers at all this year, just outside Korat. I recently heard that Toyota has bought 600 rai of land near Khon Kaen, so I expect a lot of their experienced labour to relocate. Nikon will open an enormous plant in Korat, and I hear that Honda is contemplating opening up there too. Why? Because that is where the labour in these factories comes from. 300 a day is a pittance to these companies, but they will bring literally thousands of jobs back to the regions. The existing factories around Bangkok can be upgraded with more automation, which as yet hasn't been done because labour has been so cheap.

The way that the minimum wage has been used in Thailand is essentially wrong. There has been a massive move of labour to Bangkok and the Eastern seaboard and industry has flourished, which has left the regions moribund of labour and eventually the regions will be wastelands without any young labour at all. So, this goes hand in hand with raising the guaranteed rice price (we can argue about the rights and wrongs of dems v PTP style for doing so), but there is an enormous family network still just about standing in the regions which can accommodate returning unemployed. And you know what, they now have a guaranteed income, for rice, while rubber and cassava have increased massively in value in the last 3 years.

I never said that a blanket raise of the minimum wage to 300 was the best idea, I simply pointed out how employers can exploit it by bringing in foreign labour. I have never believed this idea that "we cannot find local worker to do the job". I worked on farms in the summmer in the UK to earn pocket money, British people swept streets and waited tables for hundreds of years. Today the vast majority of those jobs have been taken by immigrants, because these jobs have been bid down to "the minimum" by an extra supply of imported labour.

So what do I see happening if the wages go up to 300 baht tomorrow. There will be some job losses in Bangkok and the eastern seaboard and quite a few people will return up country back to the village. They will go back to working on the farms with all time high prices for rubber, sugar, and now rice, and probably make a better living and have a better quality of life than working on a building site in Bangkok for 192 baht. If the government can bring new investment in and push it up into the regions, there will be some semi experienced labour available for supply.

Will inflation go nuts? Well that is the issue. I doubt very much that informal labour in agriculture will demand 300 because the families will been replenished with some extra labour. PTP will encourage more rice production in Isaan moving away from the 3 crop system in the centre of the country. The rural areas will be replenished with young to middle aged people, and the amount of people productive in agriculture will increase, and an average bar or office in Bangkok will lose some employees. Construction will be a hard one because they really pay minimum, but then they should invest in more machinery instead of relying on flip flop clad labour. Maybe I am being simplistic, but there is a place for agriculture in this country, just not at the prices that were being paid by the buyers in Bangkok. Rather luckily, China is about to have a massive rice crop failure due to drought in the central regions, so 15k per ton isn't far away from feasible.

Someone else called me a professor, I would never claim it myself. However, having worked in several international companies here where the profit margins were enormous because of the low cost of labour, I don't see it being the catastrophe you predict. Some companies will fold of course, but if they couldn't survive on 192 baht a day for labour, well what can one say. I don't see a minimum wage as something that should be considered a living wage, but a wage that prevents exploitation. As I mentioned in my post, using the minimum wage as an excuse to bring in Burmese or Cambodian labour, is a gross abuse of the people here.

If it was explained to the Thai people that all imported labour was to be banished from the country, and all jobs must pay at least 300 baht to prevent Thais being exploited, I think you might be surprised how difficult it would be for any business owner to admit that he wouldn't try to get behind it.

[khaowong1]

Anyone who has gone into a shop in Thailand and counted how many staff are on duty knows that there's fat that can be trimmed.

I couldent Agree More

I posted about this last night on a similar Thread

"I decided I would post some snaps I took over the last few days. Both Instances gave me a jolly good chuckle. and thinking to myself.. As an employer would you want to be paying each of these workers 300 THB for this type of productivity? I think Thai workers will get a serious shock if this 300 THB is implemented as any Sane employer will be cutting staff levels to counter the increase in wages (Just as my Employer has already started to do 100 jobs Axed ) and each worker will be expected to be more productive to fill the void. More money per work = less workers on the Job + same work output expected. I wonder what the crime rate will be like when all the unemployed turn to less legal means to put food on the tables? Oh well I guess the BIB will be happy think of all the kick backs for the "blind Eyes" they will be getting.. Note: The Ladies doing the painting were in a government office they took approximately 4 hours to collectedly paint 2 x 3 Meter wall. Resized to 55% (was 640 x 480) - Click image to enlarge Uploaded with ImageShack.us The 8 men took 8 hours to screw recycled corrugated "ASPESTOS!" to a pre erected fence. It mostly fell down 4 days later after a rain storm I was told they were a Building company building a 10 floor apartment next door.... So I believe they were probably all Immigrant workers but hey they are going to want a bit of this 300 THB action too. Resized to 55% (was 640 x 480) - Click image to enlarge Uploaded with ImageShack.us "

I was just saying - 'trimming the fat" expresion makes me grin from ear to ear.

I doubt I have a way to teach this expression to my kids. Hopefully they can learn English like this from the neighbors - hehe.

I'm sure the Buddist way is quite different.

I recommend studiying Budda ways .

I'm pretty sure that in Budda ways - it's not eve about trimming the fat.

Budidists are trying to be more Budda like.

The Buddha very specifically laid out instructions in one of his talks, about how an employer should treat his employees and how employees should treat their employer. Thailand is supposed to be a Buddhist nation, but they sure don't walk the walk, only talk the talk.

Edited August 4, 2011 by khaowong1

[TAWP]

Care to share what he supposedly said?

Edited August 4, 2011 by TAWP

[hammered]

Professor!! my foot!! NB: I'm not sure whether there is a hint of sarcasm involved here or whether you actually believe this!!!

The only things that the minimum wage will do is to push up unemployment to levels not seen in a generation on account of immigrants from Cambodia (primarily) taking advantage of Yingluck's foolish promises in order to get elected. I have seen 1 million quoted as being the number of Cambodians applying to work in the Kingdom within days of the election outcome. Allied to this, the inflation rate, interest rates, strength of the baht and cost of living will all rise inexorably and the employment rate amongst Thai's, business competitiveness, exports, living standards and the nation's prosperity will all fall, depressingly.

I wonder just how many of those Thai's who voted Pheu Thai understood this. I think you could take that they voted for it on face value and didn't appreciate the consequences!!!

Gullible Thailand!!!!

Thailand reportedly today has an unemployment rate of under 2%. This is a complete anathema because under-employement is enormous. Just look at your local homepro or central and see the thousands standing around doing essentially nothing on 185 to 215 baht a day. However, don't believe that this idea to raise the wage to 300 hasn't been thought through.

One could look at this extremely cynically and believe there is an idea to ruin the country, or one could look at the demographics of the rural areas and realise that these places are absolutely dying on their feet. I worked in an agricultural company for many years, and the average age of the farmers (husband and wife) that we had supplying us was 46. The kids have left the villages and an enormous amount of them are working in Bangkok eaking out an existence on 200 baht a day. Meanwhile, the factories in Isaan and the North are literally crying out for labour. I know for a fact that a certain shoe manufacturer in central issan already pays more than 300 a day, and cannot find labour. My old company cannot find any new workers at all this year, just outside Korat. I recently heard that Toyota has bought 600 rai of land near Khon Kaen, so I expect a lot of their experienced labour to relocate. Nikon will open an enormous plant in Korat, and I hear that Honda is contemplating opening up there too. Why? Because that is where the labour in these factories comes from. 300 a day is a pittance to these companies, but they will bring literally thousands of jobs back to the regions. The existing factories around Bangkok can be upgraded with more automation, which as yet hasn't been done because labour has been so cheap.

The way that the minimum wage has been used in Thailand is essentially wrong. There has been a massive move of labour to Bangkok and the Eastern seaboard and industry has flourished, which has left the regions moribund of labour and eventually the regions will be wastelands without any young labour at all. So, this goes hand in hand with raising the guaranteed rice price (we can argue about the rights and wrongs of dems v PTP style for doing so), but there is an enormous family network still just about standing in the regions which can accommodate returning unemployed. And you know what, they now have a guaranteed income, for rice, while rubber and cassava have increased massively in value in the last 3 years.

I never said that a blanket raise of the minimum wage to 300 was the best idea, I simply pointed out how employers can exploit it by bringing in foreign labour. I have never believed this idea that "we cannot find local worker to do the job". I worked on farms in the summmer in the UK to earn pocket money, British people swept streets and waited tables for hundreds of years. Today the vast majority of those jobs have been taken by immigrants, because these jobs have been bid down to "the minimum" by an extra supply of imported labour.

So what do I see happening if the wages go up to 300 baht tomorrow. There will be some job losses in Bangkok and the eastern seaboard and quite a few people will return up country back to the village. They will go back to working on the farms with all time high prices for rubber, sugar, and now rice, and probably make a better living and have a better quality of life than working on a building site in Bangkok for 192 baht. If the government can bring new investment in and push it up into the regions, there will be some semi experienced labour available for supply.

Will inflation go nuts? Well that is the issue. I doubt very much that informal labour in agriculture will demand 300 because the families will been replenished with some extra labour. PTP will encourage more rice production in Isaan moving away from the 3 crop system in the centre of the country. The rural areas will be replenished with young to middle aged people, and the amount of people productive in agriculture will increase, and an average bar or office in Bangkok will lose some employees. Construction will be a hard one because they really pay minimum, but then they should invest in more machinery instead of relying on flip flop clad labour. Maybe I am being simplistic, but there is a place for agriculture in this country, just not at the prices that were being paid by the buyers in Bangkok. Rather luckily, China is about to have a massive rice crop failure due to drought in the central regions, so 15k per ton isn't far away from feasible.

Someone else called me a professor, I would never claim it myself. However, having worked in several international companies here where the profit margins were enormous because of the low cost of labour, I don't see it being the catastrophe you predict. Some companies will fold of course, but if they couldn't survive on 192 baht a day for labour, well what can one say. I don't see a minimum wage as something that should be considered a living wage, but a wage that prevents exploitation. As I mentioned in my post, using the minimum wage as an excuse to bring in Burmese or Cambodian labour, is a gross abuse of the people here.

If it was explained to the Thai people that all imported labour was to be banished from the country, and all jobs must pay at least 300 baht to prevent Thais being exploited, I think you might be surprised how difficult it would be for any business owner to admit that he wouldn't try to get behind it.

Interesting read. Thanks

[whatsupdoc]

Thailand reportedly today has an unemployment rate of under 2%. This is a complete anathema because under-employement is enormous. Just look at your local homepro or central and see the thousands standing around doing essentially nothing on 185 to 215 baht a day. However, don't believe that this idea to raise the wage to 300 hasn't been thought through.

One could look at this extremely cynically and believe there is an idea to ruin the country, or one could look at the demographics of the rural areas and realise that these places are absolutely dying on their feet. I worked in an agricultural company for many years, and the average age of the farmers (husband and wife) that we had supplying us was 46. The kids have left the villages and an enormous amount of them are working in Bangkok eaking out an existence on 200 baht a day. Meanwhile, the factories in Isaan and the North are literally crying out for labour. I know for a fact that a certain shoe manufacturer in central issan already pays more than 300 a day, and cannot find labour. My old company cannot find any new workers at all this year, just outside Korat. I recently heard that Toyota has bought 600 rai of land near Khon Kaen, so I expect a lot of their experienced labour to relocate. Nikon will open an enormous plant in Korat, and I hear that Honda is contemplating opening up there too. Why? Because that is where the labour in these factories comes from. 300 a day is a pittance to these companies, but they will bring literally thousands of jobs back to the regions. The existing factories around Bangkok can be upgraded with more automation, which as yet hasn't been done because labour has been so cheap.

The way that the minimum wage has been used in Thailand is essentially wrong. There has been a massive move of labour to Bangkok and the Eastern seaboard and industry has flourished, which has left the regions moribund of labour and eventually the regions will be wastelands without any young labour at all. So, this goes hand in hand with raising the guaranteed rice price (we can argue about the rights and wrongs of dems v PTP style for doing so), but there is an enormous family network still just about standing in the regions which can accommodate returning unemployed. And you know what, they now have a guaranteed income, for rice, while rubber and cassava have increased massively in value in the last 3 years.

I never said that a blanket raise of the minimum wage to 300 was the best idea, I simply pointed out how employers can exploit it by bringing in foreign labour. I have never believed this idea that "we cannot find local worker to do the job". I worked on farms in the summmer in the UK to earn pocket money, British people swept streets and waited tables for hundreds of years. Today the vast majority of those jobs have been taken by immigrants, because these jobs have been bid down to "the minimum" by an extra supply of imported labour.

So what do I see happening if the wages go up to 300 baht tomorrow. There will be some job losses in Bangkok and the eastern seaboard and quite a few people will return up country back to the village. They will go back to working on the farms with all time high prices for rubber, sugar, and now rice, and probably make a better living and have a better quality of life than working on a building site in Bangkok for 192 baht. If the government can bring new investment in and push it up into the regions, there will be some semi experienced labour available for supply.

Will inflation go nuts? Well that is the issue. I doubt very much that informal labour in agriculture will demand 300 because the families will been replenished with some extra labour. PTP will encourage more rice production in Isaan moving away from the 3 crop system in the centre of the country. The rural areas will be replenished with young to middle aged people, and the amount of people productive in agriculture will increase, and an average bar or office in Bangkok will lose some employees. Construction will be a hard one because they really pay minimum, but then they should invest in more machinery instead of relying on flip flop clad labour. Maybe I am being simplistic, but there is a place for agriculture in this country, just not at the prices that were being paid by the buyers in Bangkok. Rather luckily, China is about to have a massive rice crop failure due to drought in the central regions, so 15k per ton isn't far away from feasible.

Someone else called me a professor, I would never claim it myself. However, having worked in several international companies here where the profit margins were enormous because of the low cost of labour, I don't see it being the catastrophe you predict. Some companies will fold of course, but if they couldn't survive on 192 baht a day for labour, well what can one say. I don't see a minimum wage as something that should be considered a living wage, but a wage that prevents exploitation. As I mentioned in my post, using the minimum wage as an excuse to bring in Burmese or Cambodian labour, is a gross abuse of the people here.

If it was explained to the Thai people that all imported labour was to be banished from the country, and all jobs must pay at least 300 baht to prevent Thais being exploited, I think you might be surprised how difficult it would be for any business owner to admit that he wouldn't try to get behind it.

The problem with your story is that it focusses on farmers and big companies like Toyota, Nikon. The businesses that will be hardest hit with the 300 baht wage hike will be the Small and Medium Enterprises upcountry. I would think that these businesses take the major share of employment opportunities in Thailand. If they start raising their prices and/or laying off their staff I am not optimistic about the economic and social consequences.

It will not be the farmers or the big companies that will be hurt most.

[lungmi]

"The Buddha very specifically laid out instructions in one of his talks, about how an employer should treat his employees and how employees should treat their employer. Thailand is supposed to be a Buddhist nation, but they sure don't walk the walk, only talk the talk."

A German professor for economics gives the same information, based on "Buddhist Economics" of P.A.Payutto (quoted by Al Gore already)

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/econ.htm

and

http://www.khbrodbeck.homepage.t-online.de/

It's a german homepage, but you can download in English "The financial crisis. A Buddhist view".

Thailand has the best think tank to resolve problems in an old proven way., but ........