Stupid Thais? Or Just Stupid People?

[bonobo]

I arrived back at the Suvarnabhumi the other evening, right in the middle of rush hour. As i live on the Thonburi side, I told my taxi driver to take Kachanapisek around Bangkok and then in the short way to my home instead of going in through Bangkok proper and fighting the traffic. The driver kept complaining that this way was too far (going this route adds about 5 km to the trip, but then again, there is no traffic of which to speak.) I tried to explain to him that he will be getting more money on the meter while taking far less time, which is obviously to his advantage. Yet he still wanted to go through town, repeating the mantra that my way was too far. Finally, I just gave him no choice, and as I sat back, I will admit, the thought of "stupid Thai taxis drivers" flitted across my mind.

And in reading this forum for several years now, I find this to be a trend amongst some posters here. One Thai woman cuts off her husband's member, and this is something all Thai women do regularly. One Thai woman with a foreign boyfriend has a Thai boyfriend on the side, and all Thai women in relationships with foreigners do the same. One Thai man abandons his pregnant Thai girlfriend, and all Thai men do that. One Thai man gets drunk each night in the village on cheap Thai rotgut, and all Thai men do that

But when I consider my thought of "stupid Thai taxi drivers," too dumb to understand when something works out in their favor, I have to remember how stupid some people in my home country can be. You only have to go as far as "Are you Smarter than a Fifth Grader" on TrueVIsion to see that the US has some pretty stupid people as well. Or when you stand in line after giving a cashier at the grocery store $11.75 for a $6.63 bill and watch her screw up her face in confusion as to why you gave her the extra $1.75 over the $10 bill, then try to figure out your change.

Unless you are fluent in the local language, and maybe not even then, I think it is very difficult for a foreigner to really feel like a full-fledged member of a host culture. So there is always a little bit of an us-vs-them attitude present. And I think we tend to gloss over what is wrong within our home cultures, when we see the same things in the host culture, we brand that specific action as endemic to everyone in that culture.

An American drunk driver who hits and kills a family of four back in Ohio is considered a bastard, a criminal, a social deviant who needs to be locked away. But a Thai drunk driver who hits and kills a family of four in Korat is just proof that all Thais are drunks, that they drive and drink, and that this is a reflection on Thai society.

I know it is hard to do at times, but I think those of us who live here would lead happier lives if we didn't lump all Thais together with the actions of the few.

And now, I will get off my soapbox.

[carmine]

I really think your example of how an american would be singled out as an individual doing wrong but thais universally being labelled for the wrongdoing of an individual is wrong and rather unfair. Surely you must understand only a complete berk would view situations like this?

In short, there will always be fools who think this way and as their are fools that come on here specically to knock thais or knock foreigners. Fortunately they are in the minority.

[robblok]

You are saying exactly what i have been thinking. Its easy to lump up all Thais for the fault of one because we don't belong to that group so we can put them down easy.

Your example from the US just say it all.

Though in general i guess the expats that come here are higher educated as the local Thais so this will happen a lot.

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine yesterday.

In Holland if some guy did something stupid we would blame the whole subgroup of those people (lets say low class idiots) This way we exclude our self and can comment on them easy. Here we don't say stupid uneducated Thais but stupid Thais. We aren't Thai so we dont have to put them in sub classes to feel better our selves.

[bonobo]

You are saying exactly what i have been thinking. Its easy to lump up all Thais for the fault of one because we don't belong to that group so we can put them down easy.

Your example from the US just say it all.

Though in general i guess the expats that come here are higher educated as the local Thais so this will happen a lot.

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine yesterday.

In Holland if some guy did something stupid we would blame the whole subgroup of those people (lets say low class idiots) This way we exclude our self and can comment on them easy. Here we don't say stupid uneducated Thais but stupid Thais. We aren't Thai so we dont have to put them in sub classes to feel better our selves.

Good point. You expressed that better than I did.

[talk2sam]

In essence...farangs have a holier than thou attitude....

[WarpSpeed]

Or when you stand in line after giving a cashier at the grocery store $11.75 for a $6.63 bill and watch her screw up her face in confusion as to why you gave her the extra $1.75 over the $10 bill, then try to figure out your change.

[thequietman]

guys, the one example that i can give once again narrows all thais in to one group. when i say all thais are crap drivers in my town, i can say it with some degree of certainty.

i drive to work everyday and run a gauntlet the moment i leave my home until i arrive in work.

now the guy who cut me off, or pulled out in front of me, or sits right at the white line while doing 30 kmph, or drives a motorbike refusing to turn his head to look if anything is coming, or jumps a red light, or doesnt give way, or doesnt know how to use a roundabout, may be the same person and if it is him in all those different pickups, cars and motorbikes, then I apologise. however if these are different people for the 5 days that I go and come from work, then i am sorry but I must conclude that all drivers in my town are crap.

i am not trying to generalise as I know they are terrible drivers.

:jap:

[outofoz]

Or when you stand in line after giving a cashier at the grocery store $11.75 for a $6.63 bill and watch her screw up her face in confusion as to why you gave her the extra $1.75 over the $10 bill, then try to figure out your change.

i think i would also give you a look of confusion....

[Bagwan]

I have a simple credo. All Thais are stupid. All farangs are ting tong. Nobody has yet to take issue with me over this.

[Moonrakers]

People are people some are just smarter than others.

I had a taxi driver yesterday take me the wrong way. I don't think he is stupid, smart people make mistakes too. He realised his mistake and was very apologetic, he even reduced the fair to a figure closer to what it would have been if he had taken the correct route. No biggie.

while I do get frustrated at times with the Thai bureaucracy I don't think I find myself tarring them all with the same brush.

There's another side to this coin as well though.

A pizza delivery boy turning up 1 hour late with a cold pizza, for example, is going to be bashed. It is them a common thing for people to take any negative remarks and admonish the person making them for being a 'Thai basher'. It's not a case of Thai bashing, it's a case of bashing an individual who just happens to be a Thai.

I said in another thread just a few minutes ago that it seem to be a common misconception that Thai's aren't people just like the rest of us. I treat Thai's just like I would treat anybody else, and I get on just fine.

[manarak]

You are saying exactly what i have been thinking. Its easy to lump up all Thais for the fault of one because we don't belong to that group so we can put them down easy.

Your example from the US just say it all.

Though in general i guess the expats that come here are higher educated as the local Thais so this will happen a lot.

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine yesterday.

In Holland if some guy did something stupid we would blame the whole subgroup of those people (lets say low class idiots) This way we exclude our self and can comment on them easy. Here we don't say stupid uneducated Thais but stupid Thais. We aren't Thai so we dont have to put them in sub classes to feel better our selves.

Good point. You expressed that better than I did.

We can even go a step further: Thais themselves are pretty good at this sport.

The whitish-looking university educated Thais will bash mercilessly the uneducated farm people, taxi drivers, etc.

I've seen it happen many times.

[thaimate]

You are saying exactly what i have been thinking. Its easy to lump up all Thais for the fault of one because we don't belong to that group so we can put them down easy.

Your example from the US just say it all.

Though in general i guess the expats that come here are higher educated as the local Thais so this will happen a lot.

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine yesterday.

In Holland if some guy did something stupid we would blame the whole subgroup of those people (lets say low class idiots) This way we exclude our self and can comment on them easy. Here we don't say stupid uneducated Thais but stupid Thais. We aren't Thai so we dont have to put them in sub classes to feel better our selves.

Good point. You expressed that better than I did.

We can even go a step further: Thais themselves are pretty good at this sport.

The whitish-looking university educated Thais will bash mercilessly the uneducated farm people, taxi drivers, etc.

I've seen it happen many times.

I have to agree with you there,my wifes familly are what we would call middle class ,they tend to look down on the uneducated Thais and seem to be worse than i am when driving and complaining about other road users .

On that i must agree though ,the average Thai driver has about as much inteligence as plant it seems when driving ,especially the woman who indecated right this afternoon and then turned left

[leo12345]

One generalization is sure, Any Thai driving an expensive car has not been trained in the art of indicating when changing lanes and lead foot driving.

This is not being harsh as i see this every day from every Benz and BMW

[OlafStapleton]

Thai school attempt to produce produce that exactly the same.

Thai school succeed.

Thai people far more homogeneous than western people who taught to think independent.

[happyrobert]

Excellent post (kissup). Yep, we all think it at times, some just feel obligated to voice it. Others let it pass unspoken in a few seconds.

On the other end of the spectrum, though, are the apologists who declare none of their particular race, creed or nationality can do wrong. Just as irritating and counter-productive.

[GreenSnapper]

Stereotypes are based on experiences. Mostly correct.

Like experiences with a Thai taxi driver. Or with a PC American.

"oh... not again...."

[waza]

I find it offensive that you generalise all TVF members in this way. Just because a few members make blanket statement as you have described and like you have done, doesn't mean you can paint us all with the same brush.

[bonobo]

Stereotypes are based on experiences. Mostly correct.

Like experiences with a Thai taxi driver. Or with a PC American.

"oh... not again...."

So the stereotype of the male-member cutting Thai woman, so often mentioned in this forum, is correct?

[bonobo]

I find it offensive that you generalise all TVF members in this way. Just because a few members make blanket statement as you have described and like you have done, doesn't mean you can paint us all with the same brush.

I would suggest your read a little better. Where was there any generalization of "all" ThaiVisa posters in my post?

[beautifulthailand99]

guys, the one example that i can give once again narrows all thais in to one group. when i say all thais are crap drivers in my town, i can say it with some degree of certainty.

i drive to work everyday and run a gauntlet the moment i leave my home until i arrive in work.

now the guy who cut me off, or pulled out in front of me, or sits right at the white line while doing 30 kmph, or drives a motorbike refusing to turn his head to look if anything is coming, or jumps a red light, or doesnt give way, or doesnt know how to use a roundabout, may be the same person and if it is him in all those different pickups, cars and motorbikes, then I apologise. however if these are different people for the 5 days that I go and come from work, then i am sorry but I must conclude that all drivers in my town are crap.

i am not trying to generalise as I know they are terrible drivers.

:jap:

Have always considered it dangerous for a farang to drive in Thailand if you're in an accident which isn't your fault you're going to have to take the grief and if there's a death then you're in serious trouble. The cost of having a car / motorbike taxi is an acceptable tax to keep you out of an 'end-gamer'. Plus the only time I ever tried a motorbike with the missus in Pai I came off at a sandy junction not worth the trouble.

[carmine]

I find it offensive that you generalise all TVF members in this way. Just because a few members make blanket statement as you have described and like you have done, doesn't mean you can paint us all with the same brush.

I would suggest your read a little better. Where was there any generalization of "all" ThaiVisa posters in my post?

Sorry bonobo but i have read it a few times, waza probably has too. Your post does'nt offend me in the least i just find it extremely narrow minded. But i'm also aware its not against forum rules to make sweeping unfounded statements. Everyone is entitled to their opinions i suppose, no matter how bizarre.

I too know people that thionk in the manner you say, however, they account for a tiny minority of the peolpe i know.

[carmine]

I find it offensive that you generalise all TVF members in this way. Just because a few members make blanket statement as you have described and like you have done, doesn't mean you can paint us all with the same brush.

I would suggest your read a little better. Where was there any generalization of "all" ThaiVisa posters in my post?

Theres a clear inference that its a general opinion, which i hope you are going to acknowledge is a load of rubbish.

[Ulysses G.]

Of course bonobo is speaking in generalizations, but he is still not far off. Why nitpick about it?

Edited August 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[wolf5370]

I had an Indian friend back in the UK. He was well educated (PhD) and had been driving since he was old enough to reach the pedals. When he came to live in the UK, he took driving lessons for a year before he took his UK test and drove there. I asked him why he did not just apply for the test and use his international license in the meantime. He said (his words or thereabouts) that no one in India learns to drive, they get in a car and just do it. They have no concept of driving rules or even about the correct way to use the controls. He told me stories about people driving on either side of the road and driving across the land between roads to go around vehicles (even on-coming ones), driving on pavements, never getting out of first gear and so on. There was no way he would drive in London without learning to drive!

My wife is Thai but lived for 14 years in the UK, where she learned to drive (and drove a car daily for more than a decade) - when we moved here she wanted to get a Thai license. I told her she could just use her UK licence and Int. licence to get one. She phoned up the testing place anyway just to be sure - before she told them about already having the UK/Int. licences, she was told to come along do a one day driving course and take the very basic test. It isn't hard to see why there are so many terrible drivers out there on the Thai roads.

//Edit: Must stop typing with my elbows! //

Edited August 6, 2011 by wolf5370

[Ulysses G.]

Oh thats right right....it pandersto you own small mindedminded beliefs

Your moaning, whining, nitpicking and mangled English does nothing to improve the thread.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[carmine]

Oh thats right right....it pandersto you own small mindedminded beliefs

Your moaning, whining, nitpicking and mangled English does nothing to improve the thread.

You really are tedious. Even for a ill thought out sniping one liner thats dull.

[ozsamurai]

If you have been reading TV over the years as most have that replied, you read of a trend in behavior, these are confirmed or not in your own dealings with Thai people on a personal level.

These become the Thai stereotypes; Yabba Truck Drivers, Crazy Gang Banger Youth, Scam Artist Bar-girl, Double Pricing Merchant.... et al. So you are automatically on your guard against these people and would notice them more. 400 truck drivers may pass you a day, but you only notice the ass that cut you off!

As farang here with no rights, we MUST be aware and super diligent, there are no friends here for us (police, government, law), this is not a complaint, its reality here in Thailand. Now before you tell me to go home if I don't like it, I choose to operate within these conditions, which is why I am here.

These stereotypes however ugly they are provide a guideline for our own protection, if you choose to ignore them it is at your own peril. If you choose to apply them exclusively then you will be treated like the hostile, and self fulfill your own prejudices.

Oz

[robblok]

If you have been reading TV over the years as most have that replied, you read of a trend in behavior, these are confirmed or not in your own dealings with Thai people on a personal level.

These become the Thai stereotypes; Yabba Truck Drivers, Crazy Gang Banger Youth, Scam Artist Bar-girl, Double Pricing Merchant.... et al. So you are automatically on your guard against these people and would notice them more. 400 truck drivers may pass you a day, but you only notice the ass that cut you off!

As farang here with no rights, we MUST be aware and super diligent, there are no friends here for us (police, government, law), this is not a complaint, its reality here in Thailand. Now before you tell me to go home if I don't like it, I choose to operate within these conditions, which is why I am here.

These stereotypes however ugly they are provide a guideline for our own protection, if you choose to ignore them it is at your own peril. If you choose to apply them exclusively then you will be treated like the hostile, and self fulfill your own prejudices.

Oz

I like your post i am always careful and guard myself for trouble here. But i have noticed that you should not tar everyone with the same brush. Just be careful but if your hostile they will be too.

Your right about the self fur filling prophecy.

[Ijustwannateach]

I tried to point out something along the same lines as Bonobo not too long ago noticing the same trend in people's posting (my thread about the 'elephant').

The ironic thing is that you can find people on both sides of the fence ('Thais are all angels blah blah', 'Thais are all devils blah blah'). The two will argue bitterly as if one of them must be right.

It's a nation. Probably most of us have never even met half of all the ethnic groups that dwell within its borders. Furthermore, the range of technologies and lifestyles is much broader than probably exists in most of our home countries- subsistence farming isn't a big thing back in the US, anyway.

Statistically speaking, there should be EVERY type of person here in Thailand from the worst evil psychotics to the best altruistic angels.

Anyone can have bad luck (or good) and wind up meeting the 'wrong' kind of person by chance.

However, if there's a frequently repeating pattern of great 'badness' in meeting people, it doesn't say anything about Thailand- it says a LOT about the person complaining.

Unfortunately, moving to another country where one can apply one's blind spots liberally due to lack of self-awareness and plausible deniability about the 'real' state of the country allows a lot of dysfunctional types to give themselves the liberty to claim that 'all Thais are blah blah blah' in an intelligence-insulting way that they would never allow themselves to stoop to back in their own countries where people would much more easily call them on it.

There ARE some differences here- frankly, there's a lot of poverty, and that means that educational levels are kind of low among many groups, without it being their fault. There are cultural choices to be made about status and money that pervert some decisions in ways not always transparent to foreigners. Some misunderstandings may be more frequent because of this. But loosely speaking, decent and considerate behaviour is still decent and considerate behaviour. If you're not being treated well, find different ways to choose people.

[mca]

What's the betting if there were a Thai folks equivalent of TVF in the west there'd be a myriad of Thai posters generalizing about westerners? " I saw a farang the other day......" " I was in a shop being served and the farang behind the counter....." etc.

Generalizing isn't the exclusive domain of westerners.