London Riots Spread South Of Thames

[Murgatroyd]

As uptheos says, the fatal shooting of a suspect by police last week is nothing new... For a very long time the UK police, and especially the London Metropolitan Police have operated a shoot to kill policy in situations where the suspect is, or is believed to be, armed with a firearm of any description. That includes replica weapons, converted or otherwise, Cigarette lighters that resemble guns, and even plastic toys. The police have been trying to put over the message "If you go armed, we will kill you" ... and any citizen with a brain cell should know that by now.

[Zammo]

Go buy yourself another keyboard, or if your in London head to a Pc World there giving them away for free.

[chooka]

It appears that they are not just misbehaving abroad.

"British Behaviour Abroad Report"

Another thread about British behaviour in Thailand.

[lomatopo]

Shoot the looters dead.

How'd that work out for you on January 30, 1972?

[uptheos]

This wasn't a spontaneous uprising of dissent from the downtrodden masses, it was shopping with violence. Enfield isn't a deprived inner-city ghetto, it's a peaceful middle-class suburb. The disturbances there weren't a protest against police brutality. A few hooligans figured the police would be so busy down the road in Tottenham, that it was the perfect opportunity to rob the local Vodafone

Edited August 9, 2011 by uptheos

[zydeco]

In a situation like this, I value live fire. A few broadsides and the looters will go back to their council flats to await their next welfare cheque. It is at times like this England misses Baroness Thatcher. She never would have allowed these criminals to run roughshod. A few dead bodies will send a proper message. Shoot the looters dead.

There is something to be said for the use of force. "Stop", say the police. Or what? There is no "or what" in the UK. Of course, I seem to remember a lot of the advocates of force today in the UK were the same ones who endorsed the NATO attack on Libya because Gaddafhi did exactly that in his country.

[uptheos]

There's resentment against those who are perceived to have got on in life.

Unemployment is a problem, largely because so many of the poor, misunderstood pieces of crap, prefer to live on benefits and the proceeds of gang crime rather than seek gainful employment. While they are sitting on their arse's at home posing for 'gangsta' photos on Facebook, most of the low-paid, but essential, jobs are filled by hard-working recent arrivals.

On a recent trip back home I visited that area and just looking at the shop signs in Tottenham High Road you can see how many are written in Polish. One of the convenience stores looted was advertising Bulgarian food.These are the people who have tried to make an honest living and have been burned out of their homes and small businesses. There were two dozen flats above the carpet warehouse which went up in flames.

The tragedy is not that the rioters have fouled their own nest, they have destroyed the hopes of so many decent people who have devoted their lives to building a real community in Tottenham.

Edited August 9, 2011 by uptheos

[transam]

I reckon guys like these would fit right in to the Afghan mountains, whilst the 'real' soldiers come home!

He probably is Afghan, have a walk round any UK community and see what l mean.

[meatboy]

has there been any comment from the human rights brigade.

[uptheos]

I reckon guys like these would fit right in to the Afghan mountains, whilst the 'real' soldiers come home!

He probably is Afghan, have a walk round any UK community and see what l mean.

Now we have 2 reasons to send him to Afghanistan.

[bartender100]

Should be a few bargains on Ebay.

[uptheos]

has there been any comment from the human rights brigade.

Yes indeed, some of the Flat Screen TV's didn't have High Definition.

Edited August 9, 2011 by uptheos

[geriatrickid]

Shoot the looters dead.

How'd that work out for you on January 30, 1972?

No idea. I wasn't part of that generation, The events of Bloody Sunday can hardly compare to these current events. I can understand the outrage of some in respect to the Bloody Sunday deaths as many were not necessarily looters and no one was torching the businesses that sustained the community. In the case of London, this is just opportunistic thuggery being organized by the local gangs and anarchists. The only way to contain unprovoked criminaliity is to use a heavy hand and to make examples of some of the people. These maniacs are setting buildings alight. It is only a matter of time before some family is burnt to death.

Those most accepting of the behaviour are the ones that don't face the risk of being pulled from a vehicle and beaten. These are not political protests. They are opportunistic mobs run amuck. There is far too much restraint. The gloves must come off as this is an attack on basic law and order. it is obvious that the current PM and ministers have no backbone. The UK spent a fortune on APCs. Deploy them and run down a few of the rioters and the message will sink in. Unless something is done immediately, there will be a backlash and the popularity of extremist rightwing racially motivated groups will soar as people deprived of their security embrace those that promise to provide it.

[geriatrickid]

In a situation like this, I value live fire. A few broadsides and the looters will go back to their council flats to await their next welfare cheque. It is at times like this England misses Baroness Thatcher. She never would have allowed these criminals to run roughshod. A few dead bodies will send a proper message. Shoot the looters dead.

There is something to be said for the use of force. "Stop", say the police. Or what? There is no "or what" in the UK. Of course, I seem to remember a lot of the advocates of force today in the UK were the same ones who endorsed the NATO attack on Libya because Gaddafhi did exactly that in his country.

Really? Are these arsonists and looters asking for elections? Are they protesting for basic freedoms? Do they disappear at the hands of the secret police? Are they prevented from traveling in the UK? How are their basic human rights violated?

[transam]

I wager they never torched the Dole Office eh.

[lomatopo]

Deploy them and run down a few of the rioters and the message will sink in. Unless something is done immediately, there will be a backlash and the popularity of extremist rightwing racially motivated groups will soar as people deprived of their security embrace those that promise to provide it.

Well at least you've backed off from your original "shoot 'em dead" directive.

Any rational human being understands that the shooting and killing of unarmed civilians by military or police will only exacerbate the short-term situation, after all these riots seems to have been started in part as a response to a potentially extra-legal police action, and make problems worse in the long run. How's that old quote about the definition of "insanity" go again?

One need only look at last week's conviction of five NOPD officers for their actions, including killing two people, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina for a lesson in the results of irrational behavior. (This, by the way, is the subject of two of the story arcs in the great HBO series, "Treme".)

[kevkev1888]

Wait until they have all gone to bed this afternoon and torch them in their high rises.

[zydeco]

In a situation like this, I value live fire. A few broadsides and the looters will go back to their council flats to await their next welfare cheque. It is at times like this England misses Baroness Thatcher. She never would have allowed these criminals to run roughshod. A few dead bodies will send a proper message. Shoot the looters dead.

There is something to be said for the use of force. "Stop", say the police. Or what? There is no "or what" in the UK. Of course, I seem to remember a lot of the advocates of force today in the UK were the same ones who endorsed the NATO attack on Libya because Gaddafhi did exactly that in his country.

Really? Are these arsonists and looters asking for elections? Are they protesting for basic freedoms? Do they disappear at the hands of the secret police? Are they prevented from traveling in the UK? How are their basic human rights violated?

How are their basic human rights violated? If you get your wish, how about being shot on sight without arrest, trial or conviction?

[uptheos]

Here.is.a.chourus.from.a.song.I.remember.from.my.1960's.protester.days.

First recorded by Neil Young, September 1970

[ludditeman]

Really? Are these arsonists and looters asking for elections? Are they protesting for basic freedoms? Do they disappear at the hands of the secret police? Are they prevented from traveling in the UK? How are their basic human rights violated?

If you haven't been living in the UK for a while, how would you know?

The police have a tendency to shoot (or arrest) unarmed civilians with little or no excuse.

There was a Brazilian in the underground who had a policeman empty his gun into him.

Then there was the elderly man who died from a beating from a policeman while walking home.

The 50+ year old woman badly beaten by a police custody while under arrest.

In each case the responsible policemen were let get away with these actions either scott free without serious penalty

And now the latest shooting of Mr. Duggan where the police will spend a huge amount of public money in an attempt to justify their actions and blacken his name.

These are only the cases that made the news, I suspect there are many more that get swept under the carpet.

There is no longer freedom or human rights in the UK, only the surface appearance of such.

and

* CCTV cameras caught a policeman kicking Delbo King, a 33-year-old former paratrooper, and spraying him with gas while trying to arrest him in Manchester in 2003. Mr King admitted resisting arrest, but felt that the beating had been gratuitous. No officers were charged.

* Christopher Alder, aged 37 and also a former paratrooper, choked to death in Hull police station in 1998. CCTV ishowed five officers dragging him unconscious into the custody suite where they left him face-down in his vomit for 10 minutes. Officers were cleared of manslaughter.

* Nuur Saeed, a 22-year-old Somali man from Woolwich, London, died two weeks after falling 25 feet from the balcony of a flat at roughly the same time it was raided by police. Officers found him unconscious with head injuries.

* Michael Powell died after he was detained by police outside his mother's home in the Lozells area of Birmimgham in 2003. Ten officers charged over the 38-year-old's death were aquitted.

* An investigation into alleged police brutality was launched last night after a black female teenager was filmed being repeatedly punched by a policeman, while two colleagues held her down outside a Sheffield nightclub.Toni Comer said she suffered injuries to her neck, shoulders and legs during the confrontation which ended with the woman being dragged away. CCTV shows she was punched at least 5 times (2007)

Edited August 9, 2011 by ludditeman

[Steely Dan]

I bet you get far more police violence in France or Italy. You are trying to excuse gratuitous opportunistic theft and arson, if necessary curfews should be imposed and those who break them should be looking at 5 years in jail.

[uptheos]

Unfortunately, when you trim services like Police to the bone - they feel (are) more vulnerable and often act in ways they wouldn't if they had enough resources.

[zydeco]

Unfortunately, when you trim services like Police to the bone - they feel (are) more vulnerable and often act in ways they wouldn't if they had enough resources.

Throughout the Western world, the one thing that has not been cut "to the bone" is the ever growing police state apparatus. It doesn't matter whether you're in the UK or US, the governments will find a way to scan you, track you, spy on you, and investigate you inside and outside your home. They are oppressive. It's worse than East Berlin. And I do remember what it was like to be in East Berlin.

[uptheos]

It doesn't matter whether you're in the UK or US, the governments will find a way to scan you, track you, spy on you, and investigate you inside and outside your home. They are oppressive. It's worse than East Berlin. And I do remember what it was like to be in East Berlin.

Maybe a teensy weensy bit OTT?

I go back twice a year. I have a son and daughter both married, house, jobs, car etc....normal family life, go places, do things, holidays etc. I can't recall any visits from the Stasi. I think you must be living in a John Le Carre novel.

Edited August 9, 2011 by uptheos

[Atmos]

given the amount of flak India received over its management of the last Commonwealth Games . . . this from The Times of India .

It's a valid concern, how they handle, or fail to handle, these riots.

London riots cloud 2012 Olympics

Ashis Ray, TNN | Aug 9, 2011, 12.35AM IST

LONDON: As violence in London showed no sign of abating, questions surfaced about the metropolis being safe enough to stage next year's Olympic Games. On Monday morning, the police desperately sought to give the impression that the city was slowly gaining control after arresting over 170 people. Later, as the evening wore on, fresh violence in Hackney, close to the main Olympic stadium in East London, seemed ominous.

Admitting that London's image has taken a beating when it's preparing for the Olympics, deputy mayor Kit Malthouse said, "It's pretty rotten for London, it does not look good.

The mayor, Boris Johnson, tried to reassure everybody that London was safe, saying, "I hope people will have a fantastic Olympics no matter what happened last night."

more

[uptheos]

given the amount of flak India received over its management of the last Commonwealth Games . . . this from The Times of India .

It's a valid concern, how they handle, or fail to handle, these riots.

Yep, if this was in Mumbai or Delhi, the UK press would be calling for a boycott of every sporting event involving a Brit, within a 5, 000 mile radius........so, I don't blame India for jumping on the bandwagon.

[Atmos]

re the Olympics again, a 'test event' begins in London this morning; may be a test for the athletes as well depending where they're based.

I don't know London geography - hope this event is being held well away from the riots?

London 2012 Olympic Games test event starts - Beach Volleyball

The 2012 Olympic Games Beach Volleyball test event is taking centre stage on Tuesday, August 9. The campaign is scheduled to run through the coming weekend and close off on Sunday, August 14. It is the first time that the city of London will hold this type of international beach volleyball tournament on its soil.

The Horse Guards Parade is ready to host the action as tons of sand has been brought to the venue and five courts have been designed for the tournament. One court will serve as centre court, while rest of the courts will be served as training and warm-up courts.

The test event for London Olympic is also being labelled as the Visa FIVB Beach Volleyball International Tournament.

and this from Darryll Seibel - director of communications at the British Olympic Association

"No doubt it is not the type of advert we want to see with less than a year to go to the Games, but we need to keep in mind that security during an event like the Olympic Games rests primarily with local authorities," Seibel told Sky Sports News.

"From the day London was awarded the Games, security was a top priority for all the authorities and we have a lot of confidence in the plan that has been developed and ultimately will be implemented.

"If you look back at recent games and the security posture around them, it was much more difficult than what we face in London. Most recently in Vancouver for the Winter Games, that city had a violent crime issue it was grappling with right until the beginning of the Games - much of which was the product of a long-running feud between rival drug gangs.

"Salt Lake City in 2002, the first Winter Games after 9/11, you can imagine what the atmosphere and environment was like.

"This [London] is unfortunate, it is unpleasant and not what anyone would say is acceptable, but to suggest it would in any way impact on the overall approach to the Games - we are nowhere near that discussion now."

Seibel is hopeful that the Games can unite London and become a catalyst for celebration.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Atmos

[Colin Yai]

Unfortunately, when you trim services like Police to the bone - they feel (are) more vulnerable and often act in ways they wouldn't if they had enough resources.

Throughout the Western world, the one thing that has not been cut "to the bone" is the ever growing police state apparatus. It doesn't matter whether you're in the UK or US, the governments will find a way to scan you, track you, spy on you, and investigate you inside and outside your home. They are oppressive. It's worse than East Berlin. And I do remember what it was like to be in East Berlin.

I was'nt aware we had a member who was a Joseph Goebbels clone!,LOL.

[uptheos]

The Horse Guards Parade is ready to host the action as tons of sand has been brought to the venue and five courts have been designed for the tournament. One court will serve as centre court, while rest of the courts will be served as training and warm-up courts.

Horse Guards Parade is where the Queen's birthday parade usually takes place......should be safe enough.

[irishken]

the police should move in with the water canons and send these little shits back where they came from. attacking old ladies in there house and burning down shops and these community leaders are still saying they don't want the police to over react. this just shows that the whites in england are losing power more and more all the time and they are afraid to upset other ethnic groups.

and i am not being racist,just saying what i believe from seeing interviews giving on tv.