Nokia Dieing Slowly

[IsaanUSA]

Yeah, I read that Skype doesn't work on the more basic Windows handsets, but since I don't care, I didn't actually read past the first paragraph of the article.

I actually had to re-read those Nikkei BP Consulting results a few more times. Nokia is the leading brand in Thailand and Vietnam? What does that even mean? Does that mean for number/value of sales? Or does that mean people think of the brand Nokia more than other brands?

As for my friends in Thailand and Vietnam, they wouldn't be caught dead without an iPhone in their hand, but I know that secretly they would settle for a new Blackberry.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the brand rating was based on consumer opinion... not volume of purchases, market penetration or anything like that.

[IsaanUSA]

I hate how you can't go back and edit your own posts after a certain time limit has passed. Anyways I just saw on the news today that Skype now works on all Windows phones.

I know how people on ThaiVisa love reading about Thailand failing, so here's a press release about Nokia building a new factory in Vietnam.

Published April 23, 2012 | By Nokia - Press Release

Nokia officially starts the development of its manufacturing facility in Vietnam

Reaffirming long-term commitment to the country and the company's strategy to connect the next billion to information and the Internet

Bac Ninh, Vietnam - In an official ceremony today, Nokia kicked-off the development of its manufacturing facility in Vietnam, to serve the growing demand for mobile phones all over the world. The event featured Secretary of the Central Party Committee, Vice President of the National Assembly of Vietnam, Madam Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan; Minister of the Ministry of Science and Technology Vietnam, Mr. Nguyen Quan; Ambassador of Finland to Vietnam, Kimmo Lähdevirta; and high ranking officials from Central authorities and Bac Ninh province amongst more than 200 others.

Located in Vietnam-Singapore Industrial Park (VSIP) in Bac Ninh province, the Nokia Vietnam manufacturing facility is being developed on an area of 17 hectares. Nokia expects to start the operations of this factory in early 2013.

Today's event is one step further in reaffirming Nokia's long term commitment to the Vietnam market, under Nokia's strategy to connect the next billion people to information and the Internet.

Nokia's position in high growth economies is strong, and mobile phones play a strategic role. The new manufacturing site is being established to meet the growth in demand for these phones, as well as to help Nokia to deliver a contemporary mobile experience to the next billion consumers all over the world.

"We highly appreciate Nokia's efforts in making this commitment a reality, which contributes to the growth of foreign investment in Vietnam in general and in Bac Ninh in particular. We also hope this will bring up not only economic value, but also other social benefits for the country like job creation and community knowledge enhancement on information technology alike," said Mr. Nguyen Nhân Chien, President of People's Committee of Bac Ninh province.

Mary McDowell, Executive Vice President, Mobile Phones, Nokia, said: "Thanks to the valued support from the Vietnamese government, our manufacturing program in Vietnam has been progressing well. The new Nokia manufacturing plant will produce and provide new devices for compelling and affordable, localized mobile experiences, particularly in the growth markets.

"Nokia is also committed to extending our positive reputation as an employer and as a corporate citizen. We expect to attract competent and energetic employees from the local skilled labor force. And in turn, employees at our new factory can expect a state-of-the-art facility and a positive, modern working environment with high professional and ethical standards," continued McDowell.

Nokia is making progress in its strategy to connect the next billion. The company has launched an aspirational portfolio of devices that include fresh, contemporary design and form factors that are optimized for great experiences, such as social, entertainment, and messaging, and services that extend the value proposition to consumers.

Nokia first opened its doors in Vietnam in 1996 and, like many successful multinationals, saw Vietnam as a growing market with opportunity and potential. In light of the respect Nokia has wherever it operates, the company has worked hard to quickly become part of the Vietnamese community.

Nokia currently operates two representative offices in Vietnam: one in Ho Chi Minh City and the other in Hanoi. These offices carry out marketing and promotion activities for Nokia's handset business. In 2011, Nokia established a branch office in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, increasing its footprint within the IndoChina region.

In November, 2011, Nokia established a new company, Nokia (Vietnam) LLC, to build and operate the new Vietnam manufacturing facility.

Edited April 24, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[nikster]

As for my friends in Thailand and Vietnam, they wouldn't be caught dead without an iPhone in their hand, but I know that secretly they would settle for a new Blackberry.

Huh? Only Grandpa still has a Nokia ... if you look around on the street it seems like every second person has an iPhone. Of those who can obviously afford it, it's more like 75%. Android handsets are popping up everywhere too, and Blackberry is slowly waning but still around.

Middle class Thais wouldn't be caught dead with a Nokia... they'd maybe get one for the nanny.

Not sure how Nokia is building a factory in Vietnam is Thailand failing. Chances are Nokia won't be around for very much longer...

Edited April 27, 2012 by nikster

[lomatopo]

Samsung Overtakes Nokia, Becomes World's No.1 Handset Maker For First Time-Strategy Analytics

April 27, 2012, 12:22 a.m. ET

HONG KONG (Dow Jones)--Samsung Electronics Co. (005930.SE) for the first time ever became the world's biggest mobile handset vendor in the first quarter of 2012, capturing a quarter of the global market and overtaking struggling Nokia Corp. (NOK), according to data released Friday by London-based research firm Strategy Analytics.

In the quarter ended March, the South Korean electronics giant shipped 36% more handsets than a year earlier and also outsold archrival Apple Inc. (AAPL) in the smartphone segment. Samsung's smartphone shipments more than tripled on robust demand for its Galaxy handsets, the research firm said. Samsung held a 30.6% share of the world's smartphone market, while Apple followed with a 24.1% share, it said.

The latest mobile shipment numbers follow stronger-than-expected quarterly earnings this week from both Samsung and Apple, which together dominate the smartphone market.

In the first quarter, Samsung held a 25.4% share of the global mobile handset market, shipping 93.5 million units worldwide, compared with 68.9 million a year earlier, the data showed. Of those handsets, smartphone shipments jumped to 44.5 million units from 12.6 million.

Nokia held a 22.5% share as its shipments dropped 24% to 82.7 million units in the quarter.

Apple also enjoyed strong growth in the quarter, with iPhone shipments rising 89% to 35.1 million units. Its share of the world's overall handset market rose to 9.5% from 5.2%.

[Crushdepth]

Nokia aren't just losing market share, they have also reported a loss. Worst managed tech company on the planet. From world leader to global turkey in a few short years.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Crushdepth

[IsaanUSA]

As for my friends in Thailand and Vietnam, they wouldn't be caught dead without an iPhone in their hand, but I know that secretly they would settle for a new Blackberry.

Huh?

I'm assuming that English is not your first language?

I said they would not be caught dead without an iphone in their hand. That means if they were to die, they would have an iphone in their hand. It means nearly all of my Thai and Vietnamese friends use an iphone but that they would settle for a blackberry if they had to.

[IsaanUSA]

How long are we going to keep this thread going? We could each post different articles every day. It's getting boring

"As an arm chair quarterback, it is clear to me that [Nokia CEO Stephen] Elop is struggling. The results speak for themselves," says former Nokia exec Lee Williams

"Elop hasn't delivered a roadmap. He's been there for two to three years and there's really no roadmap," says Williams.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/nokias-windows-phone-bear-hug-is-choking-the-mighty-finn-50007750/

[Crushdepth]

How long are we going to keep this thread going? We could each post different articles every day. It's getting boring

"As an arm chair quarterback, it is clear to me that [Nokia CEO Stephen] Elop is struggling. The results speak for themselves," says former Nokia exec Lee Williams

"Elop hasn't delivered a roadmap. He's been there for two to three years and there's really no roadmap," says Williams.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/nokias-windows-phone-bear-hug-is-choking-the-mighty-finn-50007750/

Yeah but its the dieing *slowly* thread.

[lomatopo]

How long are we going to keep this thread going? We could each post different articles every day. It's getting boring

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Doctor: Don't do that.

Based on the number of posts/views this topic retains some interest. For those who find it boring it can easily be avoided?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not bored... I had a Nokia phone for many years and it served me well for its time. Nokia has been, until recently, the largest mobile phone maker in the world... And maybe, just maybe, if they're still alive then, I might consider buying a new Nokia handset once Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are released. But for right now:

-------------------------

Nokia (NOK) Gets More Income from Apple (AAPL) than Smartphones

April 27, 2012 10:53 AM EDT

Nokia (NYSE: NOK) is a phenom. Despite being one of the world's largest phone vendors, the company made more money from Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) patent licensing fees last quarter. As pointed out by AppleInsider earlier, Nokia profited about $600 million from those fees.

Nokia moved about 11.9 million smartphones (including 2 million attributed to the Lumia 710 and 800) with an average selling price of €143, for total revenue of €1.704 billion. With a non-IFRS gross margin of 24.4 percent, that is whittled down to €415.2 million, or about $553.9 million based on the conversion rate at March 30th.

Hmm...

Obviously, when taking into consideration costs of sales, operating margin was much less. In fact, as previously reported, Nokia's operating margin was a negative 3 percent in the last quarter. Nokia would have been almost better off not selling smartphones. (Margins include things like rebates and other promotions, along with typical SG&A).

For its Lumia lineup, which utilizes Microsoft's (Nasdaq: MSFT) Windows Phone 7 (WP7) platform, Nokia sold 2 million units at an average selling price of €220. Assuming the gross margin of 24.4 percent, that's €53.7 per unit, or €107.4 million ($143.2 million).

http://www.streetins...es/7379821.html

Edited April 28, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think people here have to remember, Nokia did a major pivot shift in its phone product, going from years of all Symbian to Windows Phone for its smartphone business. That resulted in a substantial period of basic market presence dead-time, wherein people knew their Symbian products were going extinct and yet their Windows Phone product had not arrived to market. But now it has...barely.

I think the key questions will be:

--did Nokia wait too long to innovate and remain competitive in the smartphone business, thus getting itself into an unrecoverable decline?

--will the popularity of the Windows Phone brand/OS (and the coming Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 innovations) be sufficiently great to pull Nokia out of its major marketplace decline despite the company's own past failures?

If I were a betting man, I'd say the jury's still out. But I wouldn't want to be wagering a lot of money at this point on a Nokia turnaround.

[IsaanUSA]

Well I think they waited too long in the US. I think it's been 5 to 10 years since we really had Nokia in the US on a wide basis. Apple, RIM and Android became popular and Microsoft tried, failed and pissed people off with the Kin.

Additionally I think they waited too long for the rest of the world, but the rest of the world might be more forgiving. I mean people did use those insanely expensive Nokia smartphones just 5 years ago. However people want iPhones not Windows phones. I think WP8 will only have a chance do *really* well in places where people actually use Windows 8. And developing countries are not known for upgrading to the newest Windows OS in a timely fashion. Of course people will still buy the phones, but they will not be getting the full benefit of all the integrating features.

Anyways, I love my Android phone. I love HTC Sense UI.

And in face to face talks with people I have not heard one person say they want a Windows phone. I have not seen one person with a Windows phone in public. However all the reviews I read online for the Lumia 900 are positive.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've been watching the NBA playoffs on TV from the U.S., and they're running a ton of U.S. network TV commercials right now for the 900 under the theme of something like "Smart Phone Beta Test."

It sounds like of dumb, but the commercials are actually pretty good and catchy...along the lines of suggesting that everyone using smartphones before the 900 were smartphone beta testers but that now the REAL smartphone has arrived with the 900...

I dunno if the average U.S. smartphone potential buyer particularly knows what a beta tester is... but the commercials themselves are amusing... However, one thing they don't do particularly well is sufficiently highlight any important features that would make someone want to buy the 900 instead of an Android or Iphone...

For example, in one of them, talking about the cameras, the commercial does its cutesy intro and then starts talking about the 900 having Carl Zeiss optics... I know what that is and is supposed to mean... But is that going to convince me to buy a 900 over an Android or a IPhone if I was shopping? Not likely.

[engrin]

i use the nokia 500. Paid 6000 baht. Not perfect but i like it a lot. Thanks for the spam killer tip.

[trunknuk]

It's like using chopsticks after you've seen the fork. Once people saw a company put all their technology, design and energy into a single phone, who wants to buy from a company that produces 100 designs a year?

[IsaanUSA]

It's like using chopsticks after you've seen the fork. Once people saw a company put all their technology, design and energy into a single phone, who wants to buy from a company that produces 100 designs a year?

So you use an iPhone?

[lomatopo]

Not a lot of good news, unless you shorted the stock, other than the patent trove. Honestly they should stop trying to make phones and just collect royalties from others who can? Or maybe try their hand at some Android phones?

http://247wallst.com/2012/05/14/almost-nothing-can-save-nokia-except-maybe-widespread-poverty/

Almost Nothing Can Save Nokia, Except Maybe Widespread Poverty

Posted: May 14, 2012 at 11:00 am

Nokia Corporation (NYSE: NOK) has been on a multiple-leg flight. Destination: Hell. Now it seems that any stop in Purgatory may be short-lived. This downgrade may feel a bit late, but Society-Generale has downgraded the rating to “Sell” from “Hold” and the European price target of 3.0 Euro is now down to 1.80 Euro. This is a situation where things seem bad, but are destined to get worse.

Nokia has been losing market share due to the explosion of smartphones. Whether this is fair or not after the company recently went after a new Windows phone, the company is considered to be a large seller of cheaper phones in emerging markets. What is so ironic about this story is that Nokia was just recently shown to be one of the top brands in Asia. Apparently that isn’t going to cut it.

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/05/14/nokia-is-getting-pummeled-stock-price-hits-staggering-low-after-a-6-nosedive/

Troubled Finnish phone maker Nokia saw its stock price take an unusually steep nosedive this morning on market open, dropping about 6.3 percent to 2.35 euros.

Earlier this morning, it even hit an all-time low of 2.34 euros per share. Yup, Nokia’s definitely no longer the most valuable Finnish company. As pointed out by Yle.fi, Nokia’s stock price is down 37.5 percent since the beginning of the year, and down almost 61 percent in the last year.

http://betanews.com/2012/05/14/the-measure-of-windows-phones-failure-is/

The measure of Windows Phone's failure is...

By Joe Wilcox

There are many measures, but one piqued my attention last week. According to Nielsen, Windows Mobile US smartphone market share, based on install base not unit shipments, is considerably higher than its successor -- 4.1 percent versus 1.7 percent for newer Windows Phone. Interpret however you like: Windows Mobile is so good, many Americans stick with it; Windows Phone isn't doing well after two version releases and 18 months of sales.

Nielsen's numbers are for first quarter, when Android share reached 48.5 percent, effectively from zero three years ago (the OS debuted on one smartphone from one carrier in Q4 2008). The next two places go to iOS and BlacBerry, with 32 percent and 16 percent share, respectively. In second quarter 2011: Android, 39 percent; iOS, 28 percent; BlackBerry, 20 percent; Windows Mobile/Phone, 9 percent. So Microsoft's overall share measured by both operating systems is down by one-third in just three quarters.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/may/14/nokia-falls-back-on-patents

Ailing Nokia falls back on patents legacy

Mobile phone maker steps up quest for royalties from rivals that it says infringe its patents

guardian.co.uk, Monday 14 May 2012 09.29 BST

Nokia earns £400m a year from patent royalties. Photograph: Antti Aimo-Koivisto/AFP/Getty Images

In a desperate search for cash to tide it over until sales ramp up of new products, Nokia is stepping up its quest for royalties from rivals that it says infringe its patents in their technology.

Last week it filed cases relating to 45 patents in the US and Germany against HTC, Viewsonic and BlackBerry maker RIM.

[IsaanUSA]

More and more Windows phones are coming to market here in the United States. That means Nokia has more competition, however the Lumia 900 still gets great reviews.

Does Nokia crashing affect Nokia Siemens Networks at all? Or are they completely separate entities.

EDIT: Oh good Lord, they just announced two new Crap-kia phones today.

http://www.nokia.com/mea-en/products/phone/110

http://www.nokia.com/mea-en/products/phone/112

Edited May 15, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The 110 looks like Series 40, 1.8 in screen, VGA 640 by 480 still camera, tiny tiny video resolution, dual SIM...

Amazing that they're even making that kind of phone anymore... though I think similar Nokia models are still sold in Big C and such here for around 1000-2000 baht.

Hope they're not betting the farm on these models...

Edited May 15, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

Congratulations - A Nokia Bankruptcy Is Baked Into The Price Already

May 17, 2012

Finally, Nokia (NOK) is so cheap that if the company was to go bankrupt today, its shares would be worth more than they are now. If we look at the company's balance sheet, we see why.

As of right now, Nokia's market value is $10.7 billion. In the latest quarterly report, Nokia had cash of $1.82 billion in addition to short term investments of $8.24 billion. The company's total account receivables sum up to $6.19 billion. In addition, the company's current inventory is worth $2.35 billion. The company's current total assets, according to its last SEC filing are worth $22.62 billion. If the company was to go bankrupt, everything would be up for a sale. This includes things like Nokia's plants, buildings and equipments, which are worth a total of $1.76 billion. If we add all the company's assets, cash and investments, we are looking at a total of $33 billion.

On the other hand, the company is not free of liabilities either. The company owes $4.9 billion and most of this amount (i.e., $3.8 billion) is long term debt. All Nokia's debt and liabilities total up to $22 billion. When company's total liabilities are subtracted from its assets, we have a balance of $11 billion.

However, this is not all. The company's assets of $33 billion don't include its patent holdings. Nokia has invested more than $62 billion in the last 20 years to build its patent portfolio. The company currently earns about $700 million a year from its patent royalties. Nokia's patent portfolio includes 10,000 patents, some of which are very important for building a mobile device.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/597161-congratulations-a-nokia-bankruptcy-is-baked-into-the-price-already

[lomatopo]

Gartner Says Worldwide Sales of Mobile Phones Declined 2 Percent in First Quarter of 2012; Previous Year-over-Year Decline Occurred in Second Quarter of 2009

Samsung's Android-Based Smartphone Sales in First Quarter of 2012 Represented More Than 40 Percent of Android-Based Smartphone Sales Globally; No Other Vendors Achieved More Than a 10 Percent Market Share

Egham, UK, May 16, 2012—

Worldwide sales of mobile phones to end users reached 419.1 million units in the first quarter of 2012, a 2 per cent decline from the first quarter of 2011, according to Gartner, Inc. This is the first time since the second quarter of 2009 that the market exhibited a decline. “Global sales of mobile devices declined more than expected due to a slowdown in demand from the Asia/Pacific region,” said Anshul Gupta, principal research analyst at Gartner. “The first quarter, traditionally the strongest quarter for Asia – which is driven by Chinese New Year, saw a lack of new product launches from leading manufacturers, and users delayed upgrades in the hope of better smartphone deals arriving later in the year.”

http://www.gartner.c....jsp?id=2017015

[IsaanUSA]

users delayed upgrades in the hope of better smartphone deals arriving later in the year.”

Heck yes. iPhone 5, Google Nexus phones, Windows 8, more widespread LTE, Tegra processors

So many "big" announcements of technology to come. Lots of people are waiting.

[Crushdepth]

users delayed upgrades in the hope of better smartphone deals arriving later in the year.”

Heck yes. iPhone 5, Google Nexus phones, Windows 8, more widespread LTE, Tegra processors

So many "big" announcements of technology to come. Lots of people are waiting.

3G in Thailand...

[IsaanUSA]

users delayed upgrades in the hope of better smartphone deals arriving later in the year.”

Heck yes. iPhone 5, Google Nexus phones, Windows 8, more widespread LTE, Tegra processors

So many "big" announcements of technology to come. Lots of people are waiting.

3G in Thailand...

Are people actually waiting for 3G in Thailand before buying a new phone? I really have no idea about the different iPhone versions and which ones have 3G or whatever.

EDIT: I don't really keep up to date on the different smartphones and different carriers, but I think nearly every smartphone has 3G service now. Only the original iPhone did not have 3G

Edited May 18, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[Guest]

Nokia do have loads of patents which bring E500M each year. The patents alone can easily be valued as E5B.

Since 2007 Nokia's cash have dropped from E10B to E5B. Then again most of the time Nokia has made profit during these years. So where have the money gone? Paid loans? Paid dividends? Naviteq?

[IsaanUSA]

Here's a fresh batch of Nokia in the media.

A lumia being used as a hammer

A comparison of RIM and Nokia as seen by American tech guys

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/20/clash-of-the-troubled-titans/

Windows phone beating iPhone in China

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57436975-75/windows-phone-edging-out-iphone-in-china-says-microsoft/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=readMore

[IsaanUSA]

Heaps more Nokia news today. It's nearly all bad news. 10,000 more job cuts. Management changes. More losses. I'm not even going to bother posting links, just Google it.

Nokia Corp. updated its outlook, saying that heavy competition would continue to hit its smartphone sector in the second quarter, but to a "somewhat greater extent than previously expected" and that the downturn would continue in the third quarter.

Edited June 14, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[lomatopo]

http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/15/nokia-windows-phone-android-competition/

Nokia eyes cheap Windows Phones to better compete with Android

By: Dan Graziano | Jun 15th, 2012

Nokia CEO Stephen Elop spoke about his continued confidence in Microsoft’s Windows Phone platform during a conference call with investors on Thursday, and blamed the company’s lackluster sales on the sellers. “The challenge in all of this is breaking through the strength Android and Apple have in a retail environment,” Elop said. “We aren’t getting the traction we prefer.” The executive noted, however, that the troubled Finnish handset maker needs to “compete with Android aggressively,” and pointed to the low-end smartphone market. “The low-end price point war is an important part of that,” Elop said, adding that Nokia “absolutely” plans to offer Windows Phones at a lower price than the Lumia 610. “We had plans already to go lower than the 610,” he said, and thanks to Microsoft’s engineering teams Nokia has identified “ways to go even further than we anticipated.” Microsoft is expected to announce the future of its mobile operating system at its Windows Phone Summit on June 20th. It is rumored that Nokia Maps will replace Bing Maps on Windows Phone 8 and include 3D navigation.

Quote: "...and blamed the company’s lackluster sales on the sellers". What a dou$he.

[Gary A]

I'm sorely tempted to buy some Nokia stock. Sound crazy? The book value is nearly double the price of the stock.