Nokia Dieing Slowly

[Gary A]

Could it be that Nokia realizes that some people just want a phone that is simple and works? In my wife's family including me, there are two smart phones, both Nokias. One belongs to me and the other belongs to my wife. I do use several smart phone features. My wife does use her smart phone for her infrequent Internet connection and sometimes looks at pictures from the phone through the TV. She carries a 1,200 baht Nokia phone for every day use. There are at least 8 other 1,200 baht or less phones that her family members use.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I too have an early Nokia smartphone with a 2.8 inch display and QWERTY keyboard that I've grown to love... Along the way, I got comfortable and familiar with the Symbian OS... And the hardware's still going strong after 5 or so years of use. Does almost everything I want besides calling -- Internet browsing via Opera, snaps photos, plays music, messaging, etc etc.

I'd love to buy an updated version of the same kind of Nokia phone today, but shelling out bucks for any of Nokia's current Symbian offerings at this point seems like throwing money down a hole for anyone with any tech orientation and desire to do more than just routine phone things in the future...

Nokia has abandoned the Symbian OS, and thus developers simply aren't going to be writing new apps for it. Every time I see something new that I'd be interesting in adding to my phone, I check the info and it's almost always available for IPhone and Android, sometimes also for Blackberry and Windows, and now almost never for Symbian. Very unfortunately, it's become a dead-end road.

[FarangBuddha]

Could it be that Nokia realizes that some people just want a phone that is simple and works? In my wife's family including me, there are two smart phones, both Nokias. One belongs to me and the other belongs to my wife. I do use several smart phone features. My wife does use her smart phone for her infrequent Internet connection and sometimes looks at pictures from the phone through the TV. She carries a 1,200 baht Nokia phone for every day use. There are at least 8 other 1,200 baht or less phones that her family members use.

If all you want to do is make calls great...there are still some call only phone models for people like you. If you have no need for a of the sophisticated services offered by today's smartphones then don't buy one...just stop knocking them!

[Gary A]

Could it be that Nokia realizes that some people just want a phone that is simple and works? In my wife's family including me, there are two smart phones, both Nokias. One belongs to me and the other belongs to my wife. I do use several smart phone features. My wife does use her smart phone for her infrequent Internet connection and sometimes looks at pictures from the phone through the TV. She carries a 1,200 baht Nokia phone for every day use. There are at least 8 other 1,200 baht or less phones that her family members use.

If all you want to do is make calls great...there are still some call only phone models for people like you. If you have no need for a of the sophisticated services offered by today's smartphones then don't buy one...just stop knocking them!

Gee, I didn't think that I was knocking my E52 Nokia smart phone. I think it is the best phone I have ever owned. My point is that I don't like touch screen phones, and am concerned that there may not be any high end phones other than touchscreens in the near future. If anyone is knocking anything, I feel that other posters are knocking Nokia.

[lomatopo]

If anyone is knocking anything, I feel that other posters are knocking Nokia.

Perhaps the title of the thread might have been an indication of the expected tenor of the thread?

I only posted the announcement of the low-end Nokia phones to illustrate the lack of focus, scattershot product announcements and basic lack of understanding of any of the mobile communications markets. This is typical of a legacy company.

The very fact that the VP refers to an emerging markets' view of a phone as an investment shows total ignorance. It's not a <deleted>' investment, it's a communications device. The gross margin on these newly announced models is probably ~ $ 8, which has to be shared along the value chain, so Nokia will need a billion customers just to not lose money. In these emerging market Nokia has limited brand awareness, so cannot capitalize on that and is likely to get price pressure from below and above. In some of these markets it might be a JetStar phone, or a Pepsi phone (MVNO model), not a Nokia phone.

And projecting personal preferences (the "it's good enough for me" mentality), and those of a single family, in a saturated market is not the way to address new markets, increase revenue and market share.

Symbian, MeeGo, Maemo, Harmottan, WM, N9, N900, Booklet; all illustrate a lack of focus at the senior management level. Hence the apropos thread title and follow on knockin'.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One of the good things about Nokia smartphone handsets in recent years has been their broad, multi-band compatibility for 3G services, which is especially significant in a fragmented, scattered 3G marketplace like Thailand.

When I buy a smartphone for a princely sum, I'd prefer not to find myself locked into only one or two 3G carriers in the ever-changing future, because the phone (other than Nokia) only supports 900 and 2100 Mhz 3G, or only 2100 Mhz 3G, or only 850 and 2100 Mhz... but not 900 Mhz...

Who knows whether the future Windows Phone versions of Nokia smartphones will continue that past broad compatibility... I hope so... Because most of the other major handset manufacturers do a pretty poor job of covering the different 3G bases with their handsets, probably because their larger country markets for 3G aren't nearly so fragmented as Thailand.

[lomatopo]

One of the good things about Nokia smartphone handsets in recent years has been their broad, multi-band compatibility for 3G services, which is especially significant in a fragmented, scattered 3G marketplace like Thailand.

Until just a few weeks ago this really wouldn't have been considered a feature per se.

But yes, Nokia does offer 5-band 3G radios on many of their Symbian smartphones: N8, C7, X7, E7, C6. This of course add significant costs, and further reduces margin for Nokia.

And Nokia's trio of new smartphones, 600, 700 and 701 all have 5-band radios.

Nokia 600, 700, 701 and Symbian Belle Now Official

That said I'm not sure if Nokia Thailand is localizing all of these models given the short life of Symbian? And I would choose a 3G service provider, then choose the best phone for that provider. But that's me. You have to go pretty deep with an Iphone 4 or SGS2 to get 4-band 3G. The obvious choices are AIS/900 Mhz or True (or even DTAC)/850 Mhz. It would be nice to have the flexibility, but certainly not worth tying yourself to a dead OS or dying Nokia.

Nokia Q2 2011 results - smartphone sales fall to 16.7m

Published by Rafe Blandford at 12:07 UTC, July 21st 2011

Nokia has released its Q2 2011 results, reporting an operating loss of -€487 million, with net sales of €9.275 billion (down 7% YoY). Nokia's Devices and Services division's losses were -€247 million. Margins in devices and services were -4.5% (down 14% YoY and down 14.2% QoQ). However, non-IFRS operating profit was €391 million (down 41% YoY and down 44% QoQ), with Devices and Services non-IFRS profit at €369 million, and margins at 6.7%. Total smartphone device sales were 16.7 million, compared with 24 million units in Q2 2010 (down 34% YoY) and 25.2 million units in Q1 2011 (down 31%, QoQ).

[GreenSnapper]

One of the good things about Nokia smartphone handsets in recent years has been their broad, multi-band compatibility for 3G services, which is especially significant in a fragmented, scattered 3G marketplace like Thailand.

When I buy a smartphone for a princely sum, I'd prefer not to find myself locked into only one or two 3G carriers in the ever-changing future, because the phone (other than Nokia) only supports 900 and 2100 Mhz 3G, or only 2100 Mhz 3G, or only 850 and 2100 Mhz... but not 900 Mhz...

Who knows whether the future Windows Phone versions of Nokia smartphones will continue that past broad compatibility... I hope so... Because most of the other major handset manufacturers do a pretty poor job of covering the different 3G bases with their handsets, probably because their larger country markets for 3G aren't nearly so fragmented as Thailand.

Correct.

When you live in Thailand, you want to be prepared to have all necessary 3G frequencies available and not being attached to a certain provider. Everything changes here constantly, or you may just move to a different area where yo need another provider.

So the basic rule is: Only buy a smartphone which supports all of 850, 900 and 2100 MHz. This will limit your choice to Blackberry, iPhone, Nokia and the Samsung SGS2.

Some more points about anti Nokia drivels I read here:

First: Symbian is not dead. Actually it will be supported with updates until 2016. This is from an official statement. The latest updates (called "Anna" and "Belle") are actually quite nice. There is more to follow.

Second: Nokia is not dead. Actually they build some of the best quality hardware available. You will rarely find a better RF-system, better sound system (only iPhone can compete in this field), better battery life and so on. And you get all this for almost half the price of an iPhone or an upper Samsung.

Third: Windows Phone will soon be the next major platform for high-end Nokia smartphones. This may shock some people who worry that it will be of the same low quality as previous Microsoft software. I'm not fond of Windows either, but from what I heard from qualified sources, "WP7 is the first time Microsoft got something right".

If this is the case then they have a bright future, combining a competitive new OS and their long expertise in hardware.

We will see. The smartphone market is moving very fast, and the hype of yesterday will not be the hype of tomorrow.

[lomatopo]

Some more points about anti Nokia drivels I read here:

First: Symbian is not dead. Actually it will be supported with updates until 2016. This is from an official statement. The latest updates (called "Anna" and "Belle") are actually quite nice. There is more to follow.

Second: Nokia is not dead. Actually they build some of the best quality hardware available. You will rarely find a better RF-system, better sound system (only iPhone can compete in this field), better battery life and so on. And you get all this for almost half the price of an iPhone or an upper Samsung.

Third: Windows Phone will soon be the next major platform for high-end Nokia smartphones. This may shock some people who worry that it will be of the same low quality as previous Microsoft software. I'm not fond of Windows either, but from what I heard from qualified sources, "WP7 is the first time Microsoft got something right".

If this is the case then they have a bright future, combining a competitive new OS and their long expertise in hardware.

We will see. The smartphone market is moving very fast, and the hype of yesterday will not be the hype of tomorrow.

1. Yes, Symbian will be supported until 2016, but not by Nokia.

On February 11, 2011, Nokia announced that it would migrate away from Symbian to Windows Phone 7.[8] In June 22, 2011 Nokia has made an agreement with Accenture as an outsourcing program. Accenture will provide Symbian based software development and support services to Nokia through 2016 and about 2,800 Nokia employees will be Accenture employees at early October 2011.

Look, it's dead. Just because you want to "Weekend at Bernies" it doesn't mean it has a pulse.

2. Nobody said Nokia is dead. Some us are saying that it is dying. Only a fool, or a senior manager at Nokia, could fail to acknowledge the dire straights the company is in. While not on life support yet, euthanasia (not asian children) should be considered, in the form of a sale.

3. Nokia Windows phones are not due until sometime in 2012. Nokia plans another 20 or so Symbian models to stanch the bleeding.

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Microsoft's(MSFT_) new crop of Mango Windows 7 phones are coming as early as next week.

But here's the upshot: The introduction is not in the U.S., and Nokia(NOK_), the company that has staked its survival on Windows, isn't involved.

Instead, it's HTC that's expected to announce two Windows Phone 7 devices next week at a press conference in London. Not only are these among the first phones to run the new Mango version of Windows 7, but they are also expected to be the first to incorporate Microsoft's Skype video calling application.

While Microsoft has a lot riding on the success of Windows 7, it arguably represents the make-or-break moment for Nokia. And with HTC and Fujitsu already out with Mango phones, the clock is ticking for Nokia, which has promised to have its first Windows phone available this year.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11231970/1/nokia-still-missing-windows-opportunity.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It would be nice to have the flexibility, but certainly not worth tying yourself to a dead OS or dying Nokia.

I wasn't suggesting anyone buy a Symbian Nokia phone at this point... In fact, above in this thread, I specifically, with some regret, called that a dead-end road because of the end of application support, among other issues. Now, what will the future Nokia Windows Phones look like in Thailand? That's an interesting question for the future...

It's nice to say, pick your mobile carrier first, and then choose the corresponding smartphone. But things change as time passes. People move from one location to another. Mobile companies get accused of operating illegally in Thailand. Companies promise service, then can't meet those promises, etc etc...

Given the way the mobile phone industry operates in Thailand, under the "oversight" of the government, I'd rather prefer to keep all my service options open and not be locked in by the choice of a limited bands 3G phone.

[GreenSnapper]

1. Yes, Symbian will be supported until 2016, but not by Nokia.

Who cares. It is just a company restructuring, mostly the same engineers. Happens all the time.

Android is also not by Samsung, just to remind you.

And finally, technology moves on. The current Symbian phones are some of the best value phones on the market. In about 2 years, you buy another phone anyway. For current customers it is sufficient to know that Symbian is not dead and is supported until 2016.

And you are wrong again: Nokia WP7 phones will be out before Christmas.

My prediction: in the next two years, high end smartphones will come mostly from Nokia and Apple. Samsung, LG, HTC will serve the mid market. Low end will come from Chinese (Huawei).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3. Nokia Windows phones are not due until sometime in 2012. Nokia plans another 20 or so Symbian models to stanch the bleeding.

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Microsoft's(MSFT_) new crop of Mango Windows 7 phones are coming as early as next week.

But here's the upshot: The introduction is not in the U.S., and Nokia(NOK_), the company that has staked its survival on Windows, isn't involved.

I try to keep up with this general subject as best as possible... And there seems to be a lot of uncertainty of just what's going to happen with the future of Windows Phone and Nokia...

I keep hearing about some kind of two-pronged approach, being Nokia smartphones, like the hardware from their recent N and E models, being released in the U.S. for pretty substantial prices and meant to compete head-on with the IPhone and higher level Android models...

But then, supposedly, some kind of different and/or lesser version of the Windows Phone OS on other hardware targeted for "emerging" markets... where it would/could run on less costly and less sophisticated hardware.

Where Thailand comes out in that future, in terms of Nokia and Windows Phone OS, I don't have a clue.

[lomatopo]

Nokia will likely launch a Windows Phone (See-Ray), which may be a cobbled-together N9, at Nokia World, Oct. 26/27. I assumed everyone understands it takes a long time to get product into the channel, so any Q4 units have had to have been manufactured (rumors ~ 2 million units by Compal in Taiwan) by now. This will have zero positive financial impact in Q4, likely a negative one. It will take well into 2012 before Nokia has global availability (localizations take time) of any one model.

To just get within sight of Apple and Android, Nokia will have to expend serious marketing effort and money. They could have the best hardware, and even the best software and maybe the best apps/market/store, but changing the perception of consumers is not so easy. Then you add in all of the channel/service provider issues and you see a market which will be unaccepting of Nokia's sales pitch as there is little end-user interest/demand. What's left? Price? When was the last time you saw anyone in public in Thailand with a Nokia smartphone? Maybe the same time I saw someone one the BTS using a "netbook".

The U.S. market is different and Nokia may never be able to recover there? Maybe in the pre-paid/burner/low-end market?

Current Nokia Symbian smartphones are values because Nokia can only compete on price. Again, they could give them away here for free and people still wouldn't take them, except perhaps to sell in the market to make some extra cash?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When was the last time you saw anyone in public in Thailand with a Nokia smartphone? Maybe the same time I saw someone one the BTS using a "netbook".

Actually, I know a fair number of Thais who have and use various Nokia smartphone models, among them the N8, which seemed to be pretty popular here...

When I'm out and around in BKK, I see various models in hand pretty often. But when I'm on SkyTrain, to my continuing amazement, I see tons of Thai folks, particularly women, still wielding their Blackberries...

I can't say for certain about this, but the regular Thais (not the geeks) I've encountered seem to be pretty unaware of the whole changing OS and world market share issues. Either Blackberries continue to be cool, or a lot of Thais haven't gotten around to replacing them yet... And I'd tend to doubt the latter, given how frequently the typical urban Thai seems to get a new mobile phone.

[lomatopo]

I have never seen anyone here with a Nokia smartphone, I mean in the last three years. I do see Nokia smartphones by the hundreds in those sad used mobile phone display cases in the markets, selling for satangs on the baht. A bit reminiscent of the "Island of Misfit Toys" actually.

I agree, the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000).

And I'll also stipulate that for those foreigners worried about the 3G landscape here (all three of them), then yes, buy a quad-/penta-/hexaband phone to safeguard yourself from the scary Thai 3G market. Clearly the majority, 99.999997% of the market here is not following that lead. And don't try to tell me that it was Nokia's plan specifically to address the Thai market. Nokia has little forecasted demand by frequency, and cannot support multiple SKUs, so they had little choice but to incur additional cost by building multiple carrier support up front. Other manufacturers have visibility into carrier requirements and build the phones to match, at lower cost.

Buy, sell, hold, throw overboard?

[Gary A]

I have never seen anyone here with a Nokia smartphone, I mean in the last three years. I do see Nokia smartphones by the hundreds in those sad used mobile phone display cases in the markets, selling for satangs on the baht. A bit reminiscent of the "Island of Misfit Toys" actually.

I agree, the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000).

And I'll also stipulate that for those foreigners worried about the 3G landscape here (all three of them), then yes, buy a quad-/penta-/hexaband phone to safeguard yourself from the scary Thai 3G market. Clearly the majority, 99.999997% of the market here is not following that lead. And don't try to tell me that it was Nokia's plan specifically to address the Thai market. Nokia has little forecasted demand by frequency, and cannot support multiple SKUs, so they had little choice but to incur additional cost by building multiple carrier support up front. Other manufacturers have visibility into carrier requirements and build the phones to match, at lower cost.

Buy, sell, hold, throw overboard?

Maybe you don't know a Nokia smartphone when you see one. In a previous post I asked the Apple fan boys and the Android fan boys what their touch screen phones could do that my Nokia E52 wouldn't do. All I got was a ridiculous "EVERYTHING" answer. That answer must have been carefully thought out.

Different strokes for different folks. You use what suits you and I use what I like.

[MJo]

First this thread is a troll from the beginning. Claiming Nokia is pulling out of US and Canada which is not true. The news was only for one model that Nokia announced is not made available in US.

Fact is that the whole business is in transition, been there for some time now and will go on for few more years most likely. Give it a bit time and it's not what phone you buy anymore but what OS you licence and use in your phone. What is happening is the same that happened in the PC business. Those who can not remember google story of IBM or Microsoft. You might find out your hated evil corporation actually was small pretty open minded start-up of young geeks that actually made it. Nokia was the same, the innovators and leaders who developed and actually created the whole business. Sure there was others like Motorola but Nokia made it big and available for all.

Looking at the sw side of PC business with Windows, iOS and Linux distros one could assume Windows and iOS are part of the mobile landscape as well. Together with Android for the simple reason it is backed by giant Google. Which by the way bought Motorola phone business so are they trying to stop what they started and limit latest Android versions only for their own phones? People always claim Android is free so maybe they need to start making some money out of it to keep developing. Interesting to see how it pans out.

Couple points from the thread.

Nokia N8 sold more than 1000 units on pre-orders alone, still superior camera and not to forgot the free good navteq map voice quided navigation. Both something that is more important to large base of customers than availability of any singe app others have in offer. E7 sells also very well in Europe for corporations, the intended customers in first place.

Buying a low end phone is investment for majority of the population in developing nations, comparable for us expats here in Thailand buying a new Fortuner. I've spend some time in east africa and it is amazing how basic things like cheap phones are something people save for years to get one and improve their business or just to be able to communicate. Nokia by the way has build their business on top of the fact that they are second to none in managing logistics and supply chains. The very base of their business success over the past 20 years. So they know how to make money on the low end. Although so called no name manufacturers are gaining ground in Asia so wait and see how it goes. Usually volumes give you advantage.

Nokia, and all other manufacturers, have always outsourced majority of the work/staff to companies like Accenture. So it is nothing new, Loma just cherry picked the article for quote but it was about one more batch of engineers outsourced under partners. Nokia has been announcing these at least once a year the past 10 years. This one just got to the USA media due the hype involved with Nokia - Microsoft deal. Actually Nokia themselves released Symbian Anna recently and announced Symbian Belle which will bring those "must have" features like pull down notifications etc Android and others have. It is actually matter of preference which OS you use, they all have more or less same features available. Some pre-installed some requiring apps.

And last let's face it, we are lemmings. The media, ads, people around us influence us and defines what is cool and so on. That can be seen in these OS war threads. Some hangs out with Android geeks or developing apps for it and so on. What comes to the iPhone, the hype started from USA, it was the first smart phone people get in their hands since old windows mobile and blew their minds. From there it rapidly spread. It might have been different if people would have had access to other smart phone OS prior the iPhone launch. This we will never know as at the time Nokia did not agree on selling on operators terms (how the business was and is done in USA) as they could sell more of their gear themselves that they could manufacture and with better margins. Looking at it now after years maybe it was a mistake but certainly not one of Elop's.

Going back to topic Nokia certainly is not going to pull out of USA markets. Quite opposite, is looking to gain significant market share there with WM7 phones that should appeal those who been using old windows mobile and for corporate customers running on windows platform already.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Going back to topic Nokia certainly is not going to pull out of USA markets. Quite opposite, is looking to gain significant market share there with WM7 phones that should appeal those who been using old windows mobile and for corporate customers running on windows platform already.

That's correct.... though I don't believe the OP, despite the flawed headline on the article, ever simply said Nokia was pulling out of the U.S. market... It did say Nokia is going to cease selling Symbian OS smartphones in the U.S., which is in fact their plan, as they transition to Windows Phone as their new OS.

There's an odd kind of dichotomy about Nokia... At least until recently and maybe even still today, Nokia has been the largest mobile phone maker in the world in terms of numbers of units... Note I said mobile phone... not just smart phone...

But, at the same time, their market share for the U.S. smart phone market, and probably the mobile phone market in general, has been abysmal... Mainly because, they generally have not had mobile carrier tie-ins for their phones, meaning U.S. consumers usually only had the option to pay full retail price, whereas most people in the U.S. get their new phones every two years or so for free or at a substantial discount as part of renewing their mobile service plan contracts... a practice that's rare in the rest of the world.

So in the U.S., Nokia definitely will have an uphill road to climb, not only because they'll be offering new phones with a newish OS that doesn't have much market penetration as yet, but also because they don't have any great history of market presence there themselves for their brand and handsets.

The rest of the world, though, is an entirely different story.

I for one will be very interested to see what Nokia plans to roll out for Asia (including Thailand), both for its future feature phones and its future smart phones.

Thais using Windows Phone OS???? Hmmmm.......

Edited August 28, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Gary A]

I have never seen anyone here with a Nokia smartphone, I mean in the last three years. I do see Nokia smartphones by the hundreds in those sad used mobile phone display cases in the markets, selling for satangs on the baht. A bit reminiscent of the "Island of Misfit Toys" actually.

I agree, the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000).

And I'll also stipulate that for those foreigners worried about the 3G landscape here (all three of them), then yes, buy a quad-/penta-/hexaband phone to safeguard yourself from the scary Thai 3G market. Clearly the majority, 99.999997% of the market here is not following that lead. And don't try to tell me that it was Nokia's plan specifically to address the Thai market. Nokia has little forecasted demand by frequency, and cannot support multiple SKUs, so they had little choice but to incur additional cost by building multiple carrier support up front. Other manufacturers have visibility into carrier requirements and build the phones to match, at lower cost.

Buy, sell, hold, throw overboard?

Maybe you don't know a Nokia smartphone when you see one. In a previous post I asked the Apple fan boys and the Android fan boys what their touch screen phones could do that my Nokia E52 wouldn't do. All I got was a ridiculous "EVERYTHING" answer. That answer must have been carefully thought out.

Different strokes for different folks. You use what suits you and I use what I like.

I just Googled Nokia N8 sales and found that they have sold 4 million units. That's a few more than a thousand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's the latest IDC forecast on mobile phone market share. I don't know if I believe their Windows Phone No. 2 mobile OS by 2015 prediction.... but that's what they're saying...

IDC expects Android, which passed Symbian as the leading operating system worldwide in Q4 2010, to grow to more than 40% of the market in the second half of 2011. A significant and growing list of vendors who have made Android the cornerstone of their respective smartphone strategies is propelling the growth of Android.

Symbian will steadily lose share throughout the forecast period as its biggest supporter Nokia transitions its smartphone strategy to Windows Phone. This will present a huge opportunity for competing operating systems to gain footing. Still, Nokia's commitment to support Symbian devices until 2016 will keep the installed base of Symbian-powered smartphone users on par with its competitors.

Windows Phone 7/Windows Mobile will benefit from Nokia's support, scope, and breadth within markets where Nokia has historically had a strong presence. Until Nokia begins introducing Windows Phone-powered smartphones in large volumes in 2012, Windows Phone 7/Windows Mobile will only capture a small share of the market as the release of Mango-powered smartphones are not expected to reach the market until late 2011. Nevertheless, assuming that Nokia's transition to Windows Phone goes smoothly, the OS is expected to defend a number 2 rank and more than 20% share in 2015.

http://www.idc.com/g...Id=prUS22871611

It's kind of interesting... If you look at the SMARTPHONE OS chart at the bottom of the above linked web page, IDC is saying Symbian OS will go from about 20% share in 2011 to nearly 0% by 2015. But they're saying Windows (all varieties) will grow from about 4% in 2011 to about 20% by 2015, essentially replacing all of Symbian's current market share for smartphones.

And here's IDC's 3rd Q 2010 rankings on mobile phone manufacturers that still showed Nokia, by a wide though declining margin, as the largest manufacturer based on units shipped.

Edited August 28, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

I have never seen anyone here with a Nokia smartphone, I mean in the last three years. I do see Nokia smartphones by the hundreds in those sad used mobile phone display cases in the markets, selling for satangs on the baht. A bit reminiscent of the "Island of Misfit Toys" actually.

I agree, the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000).

And I'll also stipulate that for those foreigners worried about the 3G landscape here (all three of them), then yes, buy a quad-/penta-/hexaband phone to safeguard yourself from the scary Thai 3G market. Clearly the majority, 99.999997% of the market here is not following that lead. And don't try to tell me that it was Nokia's plan specifically to address the Thai market. Nokia has little forecasted demand by frequency, and cannot support multiple SKUs, so they had little choice but to incur additional cost by building multiple carrier support up front. Other manufacturers have visibility into carrier requirements and build the phones to match, at lower cost.

Buy, sell, hold, throw overboard?

Maybe you don't know a Nokia smartphone when you see one. In a previous post I asked the Apple fan boys and the Android fan boys what their touch screen phones could do that my Nokia E52 wouldn't do. All I got was a ridiculous "EVERYTHING" answer. That answer must have been carefully thought out.

Different strokes for different folks. You use what suits you and I use what I like.

I just Googled Nokia N8 sales and found that they have sold 4 million units. That's a few more than a thousand.

You'll note that my statement was, "the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000)"

"here" means Thailand as the discussion had taken turn in that direction. Also I said, "sold through", which doesn't cover product with distributors.

---------------------------------------------

Nokia N8 sales plummet – does this spell the end?

On 05.23.11, In General Nokia N8, by Nick M

As has been reported by various outlets over the past week or so, including the likes of Forbes, it appears that our beloved Nokia N8 is rapidly becoming somewhat obsolete. Apparently, sales of the phones are nose diving to a point where many believe that the phone is already being ‘phased out’ – however how believable these stories and statistics are is another thing.

It seems there is some truth to these stories however, as the Nokia N8 at least here in the UK, has been massively discounted by various carriers with prices diving from £400+ on release day, down to now a mere £220 which is almost 50% off the launch price for Pas As You Go users. On the other side, if you’re interested in getting your hands on a Nokia N8 it now costs lower than 15 Euro’s in some European countries if taken out on a contract basis – this is good news for potential new owners, but what does it mean for the rest of us?

The phone, regardless of anyones price guide or sales figures, is still the best smart phone in the world in terms of its camera – i mean, come on, it’s a 12 megapixel camera that is built in to your phone. I personally think the lower cost per unit is only going to help build the user base around the Nokia N8, it’s a phone that appeals to almost every semi-professional photographer and amateur photographers alike – it’s a phone with a really awesome camera that can be taken with you wherever you go, what’s not to like?

On another bad note for Symbian^3 it appears that the newly released Nokia E7 smartphone isn’t getting the carrier support that was once expected. Let’s hope this doesn’t signal a near end for Symbian^3 and more to the point, the Nokia N8 itself.

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Nokia N8 seeing no pent-up demand on home turf?

Analyst says Nokia N8 sales tepid

Nokia's just-shipping N8 flagship may have had no real effect on sales, an analyst note from Pacific Crest's James Faucette said today. An investigation of interest in Western Europe has shown "little to no pent-up demand." He warned that the pricing was too close to that for Apple and Google devices, with only Symbian loyalists likely to buy in.

"Given that the device is priced in line with the iPhone and above most Android devices, we believe demand, outside of Nokia enthusiasts, will likely wane almost immediately upon launch," Faucette said.

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Ailing Nokia cuts smartphone prices to halt slump

By Tarmo Virki, European Technology Correspondent

HELSINKI | Tue Jul 5, 2011 12:13pm EDT

(Reuters) - Struggling Nokia has cut the prices of its smartphones in Europe, two industry sources told Reuters on Tuesday, raising the possibility of a more intensive price war in the mobile phone market.

Nokia's smartphones are rapidly losing market share to phones running on Google's Android operating platform, and the Finnish company is expected to report losses for the second and third quarters this year.

One of the sources with direct knowledge of Nokia's pricing said the steepest cuts of around 15 percent were on the flagship N8, the multimedia C7 and the business user-targeted E6.

Other price cuts were smaller, both sources said.

"There are no very big cuts per model, but the scale -- across the portfolio -- has not been seen for a very, very long time," said one of the sources, who works at a European telecoms operator.

Shares in Nokia dropped 1.5 percent to 4.37 euros by late trade. They have fallen more than 40 percent this year on fears a shift to Microsoft Windows software may not help it better compete with rivals such as Apple Inc's iPhone.

A Nokia spokesman declined to comment on specific prices but said the changes were part of its normal business.

In the past, Nokia has cut prices globally across its portfolio once a quarter. But it has not used that tactic for many quarters, instead marking down prices model by model.

Nokia's share of the British smartphone market, seen as a key indicator for trends in Europe, dropped to 10.6 percent in the 12 weeks to mid-May, from 31 percent in the same period a year earlier, according to Kantar Worldpanel ComTech's survey.

At the end of May, it warned second-quarter results would be well below a previous outlook and ditched its full-year targets.

Chief Executive Stephen Elop is pinning turnaround hopes on the Windows phone due this year, but some analysts said Nokia is losing so much market share it may never regain its footing.

"In May, European operators largely rejected the new Nokia models, particularly the E6 and C7," said Tero Kuittinen, analyst with MKM Partners.

"This is now driving panic price cuts for those models but, without operator support, price cuts rarely work."

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No doubt the N8 has a fantastic camera. And it is supposedly doing well in India, UAE, Malayasia.

Take a look at AIS, DTAC and True's sites. Do you see any Nokia models promoted?

Edited August 28, 2011 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a couple of interesting blog posts from Feb. 2011 on the smart phone market in Thailand, the the most recent one still saying Blackberry is Thailand's dominant smart phone...though not providing any statistics or sources to back up that claim...

http://asiancorrespo...ure-challenges/

The earlier post talks about the rising threats to BB's supposed dominance in Thailand from Android and IPhone...

http://asiancorrespo...on-in-thailand/

And just so the I-Boys and Girls don't feel neglected here...

Chinese teen offers virginity in exchange for iPhone 4

Really!

Edited August 28, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

Here's the latest IDC forecast on mobile phone market share. I don't know if I believe their Windows Phone No. 2 mobile OS by 2015 prediction.... but that's what they're saying...

I've dealt with IDC for eons. Just so we're clear they're the S&P ratings organization for tech/comms. They get paid by vendors so they'll say a pile of poop is gold. The CAGR (82%) for Windows Phone is laughable. I know you don't believe but some here might.

Here's a couple of interesting blog posts from Feb. 2011 on the smart phone market in Thailand, the the most recent one still saying Blackberry is Thailand's dominant smart phone...though not providing any statistics or sources to back up that claim...

Again, another market Nokia saw fly by. Heck, RIM apexed and cratered while Nokia slowly passed into a coma. Nokia couldn't give away smartphones here (Thailand, in case that wasn't obvious ). And even with huge discounts in other markets they struggle. Obviously Symbian loyalists are fervent, that's why we call them loyalists, but how many phones can they buy?

People here need to try not to take personal offense as we, and just about every analyst in the world, questions Nokia's future, just because you own a Nokia handset.

If you believe that Nokia will rebound then you should invest in NOK.

[lennois]

I agree, the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000).

You pull that figure out of your bum lad?

First 800 customers that pre-ordered the N8 got some free goodies. I tried to pre-order it and they had sold out of the freebies.

[lennois]

I have never seen anyone here with a Nokia smartphone, I mean in the last three years. I do see Nokia smartphones by the hundreds in those sad used mobile phone display cases in the markets, selling for satangs on the baht. A bit reminiscent of the "Island of Misfit Toys" actually.

You have NEVER seen anyone with a Nokia smartphone in 3 years?? lool, do you live in a cave and never leave it?

[GreenSnapper]

I agree, the N8 has probably been the most successful Nokia Smartphone here recently, maybe selling through to a few hundred end-users (fewer than 1,000).

You pull that figure out of your bum lad?

First 800 customers that pre-ordered the N8 got some free goodies. I tried to pre-order it and they had sold out of the freebies.

Never let facts disturb a good discussion....

But i agree with others, it's becoming a troll thread....

[moo9]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car. Why do you was your time with it. I use Nokia and HTC, IPhone, Blackberry...just not care. I need to call, message, listen to music and do some photoshots. Every mobile for 5000 - 10000 Baht can do this today, so why pay for brands, cool factors etc.? Sometimes it is good to be adult.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car.

I personally tend to agree with the above comment, and handle my phone affairs accordingly... But don't try to sell that idea to my Thai wife... She'd say just the opposite. .

She keeps bugging me for a Samsung Galaxy S2.... or whatever it's called... the phone... not the tablet...for about 18,000 baht.... And I keep telling her, "ya, but for 18,000 baht, what exactly is that phone going to do that your (already very nice) current phone doesn't do?" She has no clue....

[GreenSnapper]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f

A phone less important than a wife?

You must be freshly married, moo, congratulations and my best wishes for your future!

[Phil Conners]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car. Why do you was your time with it. I use Nokia and HTC, IPhone, Blackberry...just not care. I need to call, message, listen to music and do some photoshots. Every mobile for 5000 - 10000 Baht can do this today, so why pay for brands, cool factors etc.? Sometimes it is good to be adult.

Like I've said before, if that's all you need in a phone by all means get a cheap one that will do that.

I know my Android phone has taken over about half of my PC usage allowing me freedom to accomplish the same as before without having to be linked to my PC. I think if you look at the global trends you will find we are many who feel like that.