Yingluck Evasive On Queries About Thaksin

[noahvail]

Your question would have more credibility if it said...

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

A The Thai PM should contact the Japanese Government and explore any extradition option.

However, if I change the question to reflect the reality....

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave her Brother, an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

the answer would be very different.

Do you understand the words "conflict of interest?"

Q: What is that Thai arrest warrant worth on the international level? Will foreign authorities accept it?

A: Not sure. But the previous government who was totally eager to get Thaksin actually never tried it that way. They don't even made a translation of it, according to Abhisit.

Guess why?

Diplomats are no Aspergers or hotheaded blockheads. No one want big diplomatic conflicts.

Extradition requests are stress. Specially in the case Thaksin and with all that circumstances surrounding it.

Thaksin wants travel to Japan. Japan ask Thailand if that is a problem. Thailand says will will make no stress.

Everyone is happy. No one is hurt.

Just as a point of information, diplomats can have Aspergers. Google it. I'm not saying that any of the players in Thailand have AS, just that your statement isn't true.

[DLock]

Your question would have more credibility if it said...

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

A The Thai PM should contact the Japanese Government and explore any extradition option.

However, if I change the question to reflect the reality....

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave her Brother, an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

the answer would be very different.

Do you understand the words "conflict of interest?"

Q: What is that Thai arrest warrant worth on the international level? Will foreign authorities accept it?

A: Not sure. But the previous government who was totally eager to get Thaksin actually never tried it that way. They don't even made a translation of it, according to Abhisit.

Guess why?

Diplomats are no Aspergers or hotheaded blockheads. No one want big diplomatic conflicts.

Extradition requests are stress. Specially in the case Thaksin and with all that circumstances surrounding it.

Thaksin wants travel to Japan. Japan ask Thailand if that is a problem. Thailand says will will make no stress.

Everyone is happy. No one is hurt.

I agree, the Abhisit Government did a poor job if they really wanted Thaksin to return to face charges. I've always wondered about that. Did they think his return would ignite a revolution?

But I disagree that if Thailand wanted, they could raise a diplomatic conflict, in Japan or elsewhere.

If they really wanted him....they could make life difficult for him.

But now the conflict of interest makes it impossible and your initial question is valid.

[JAG]

Although it is intersting to talk about Thai politics and even try to guess what may happen or why something happened, at the end of the day for us on here it is all academic really as we dont have a vote and it isnt our country and the people do seem to have a mind of their own in making decisions that doesnt always fit with what media, government or powerful people want.

... and especially with what many of the posters on this forum want!

[samurai]

Maybe the rule of law is hurt? If the government now really wanted to play fair, and treat all citizens the same, they would be seeking extradition of Thaksin just the same as the Abhisit government. He has pending charges to face in Thailand. Why the special treatment, as if I have to ask?

The Thai PM isn't responsible how the Japanese handle their Visa issues.

What special treatment? What extradition requests? Has the Abhisit Government ever done something like that?

Abhisit also commented on a report that the Interpol has removed Thaksin from its wanted list and the fact that it never issued a warrant for his arrest.

.

The Democrat Party leader admitted his administration was to be blamed for failing to expedite the process concerning the extradition of the ousted premier.

He revealed the extradition petition is still being reviewed and translated.

[Crushdepth]

Maybe the rule of law is hurt? If the government now really wanted to play fair, and treat all citizens the same, they would be seeking extradition of Thaksin just the same as the Abhisit government. He has pending charges to face in Thailand. Why the special treatment, as if I have to ask?

The Thai PM isn't responsible how the Japanese handle their Visa issues.

What special treatment? What extradition requests? Has the Abhisit Government ever done something like that?

Abhisit also commented on a report that the Interpol has removed Thaksin from its wanted list and the fact that it never issued a warrant for his arrest.

.

The Democrat Party leader admitted his administration was to be blamed for failing to expedite the process concerning the extradition of the ousted premier.

He revealed the extradition petition is still being reviewed and translated.

Why isn't she responsible? The Thai government made a special request for Thaksin to be granted a visa. It was confirmed by the Japanese authorities, a fact that you seem reluctant to acknowledge.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Crushdepth

[Pi Sek]

She "knew nothing about the visa"? Honesty and integrity are obviously important to her.

Q: What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave a Montenegrin citizen a Visa?

A: Not the business of a Thai PM.

Next question. (No need to ask if someone has Prostate cancer)

In my honest opinion, that wasn't a bad answer, unless of course the request came from Bangkok in the first place.

Sure the media should report on this, but they should also get the perspective right and report on and prioritse the many issues that concern ordinary people a lot more than the travels or return of one man which only the higher echelons really fixate over.

...

Im sure PTP are doing things to help Thaksi, after all they are his party and the people knew this when electing them. However, they are also starting to do a lot of things that are more about running the country and the media would serve it better by using its reporters to look at what matters to the majority more.

I don't agree that only the higher echelons are fixated on the Thaksin issue, but then I expect I don't live in the same part of the country as you. Sentiments from Surat, Nakhon Sri, Krabi, Phuket, Phattalung, Songkhla and Narathiwat - Thaksin will be killed within minutes of arrival, and not by the army or the PAD but by one of thousands of willing individuals. "Pak Dai mai yom hai khow krap ma - don ying nae-non". But then, Peua Thai did not win a single seat south of Bangkok. The Dems only won a few seats in Isaan, and not surprisingly Abhisit's campaign trail there was seriously opposed, just as the UDD's protest at Phuket's Sanam Luang before the Democrat rally lasted a couple of minutes before they "retreated".

Whilst I agree with your sentiment that the media should not focus on a single issue, I also think it's important that the media is aggressively looking for answers when a politician is doing the exact opposite of what they said they would do (to which you agreed in your first paragraph). Besides, I'm sure that some very naive types even might not have expected such brazen support to bring him back unchallenged.

Interesting opinion but you are not Thai and the Thai people clearly want Pheu Thai Yingluck and Thaksin. Why do you assume that you know better? Do you have plans to colonize the country? If not shut up and let the Thais sort it out for themselves. personally I would rather have Pheu Thai Yingluck and Thaksin over the obnoxious, self serving, cheating elite of Abhisit and his cronies and I seem to be in tune with most thai people but as I said I am not Thai so my (and your) opinions arent worth didley squat.

Regardless of whether nearly half of Thais "clearly want Pheu Thai Yingluck and Thaksin", by the same argument one could say more than half clearly don't want Pheu Thai Yingluck and Thaksin. Maybe you seem to be "in tune with most thai people" where you live. I seem to be "in tune with most thai people" where I live, but my opinion is the exact opposite of yours.

What's more: voter or not, your opinion does mean something. A lot of Thai people listen to foreigners, because we have access to information sources that they typically don't (it's not just Thailand - for example, Malaysian school history books print lies about the Portuguese). We also know more about history of other countries than your "average" Thai. What's more, anyone has a right to an opinion, unless of course you are opposed to democracy - it's the value of that opinion that is in question. But if I can confirm my opinion changed at least one Thai vote, is it worth "didley squat"? I wouldn't say so.

[samurai]

Your question would have more credibility if it said...

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

A The Thai PM should contact the Japanese Government and explore any extradition option.

However, if I change the question to reflect the reality....

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave her Brother, an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

the answer would be very different.

Do you understand the words "conflict of interest?"

Q: What is that Thai arrest warrant worth on the international level? Will foreign authorities accept it?

A: Not sure. But the previous government who was totally eager to get Thaksin actually never tried it that way. They don't even made a translation of it, according to Abhisit.

Guess why?

Diplomats are no Aspergers or hotheaded blockheads. No one want big diplomatic conflicts.

Extradition requests are stress. Specially in the case Thaksin and with all that circumstances surrounding it.

Thaksin wants travel to Japan. Japan ask Thailand if that is a problem. Thailand says will will make no stress.

Everyone is happy. No one is hurt.

Just as a point of information, diplomats can have Aspergers. Google it. I'm not saying that any of the players in Thailand have AS, just that your statement isn't true.

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

[Crushdepth]

Your question would have more credibility if it said...

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

A The Thai PM should contact the Japanese Government and explore any extradition option.

However, if I change the question to reflect the reality....

Q What is the job of a Thai PM when the Japanese authorities gave her Brother, an convicted fugitive that has pending arrest warrants in Thailand a Visa?

the answer would be very different.

Do you understand the words "conflict of interest?"

Q: What is that Thai arrest warrant worth on the international level? Will foreign authorities accept it?

A: Not sure. But the previous government who was totally eager to get Thaksin actually never tried it that way. They don't even made a translation of it, according to Abhisit.

Guess why?

Diplomats are no Aspergers or hotheaded blockheads. No one want big diplomatic conflicts.

Extradition requests are stress. Specially in the case Thaksin and with all that circumstances surrounding it.

Thaksin wants travel to Japan. Japan ask Thailand if that is a problem. Thailand says will will make no stress.

Everyone is happy. No one is hurt.

Just as a point of information, diplomats can have Aspergers. Google it. I'm not saying that any of the players in Thailand have AS, just that your statement isn't true.

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

[Thaddeus]

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict.

It always amuses me when someone plays the 'politically motivated' card.

He's a politician (or was) in a political arena changing or ignoring policies to suit his own political ends.

I'd love to know what any other motivation could possibly exist ..... don't like his hairstyle maybe.

[Pi Sek]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

And there it is... unless of course the "credible intelligence services" were in on the act of trying to suppress true democracy lest their own countries go the same way (I don't believe this, but I thought I might try to pre-empt some possible refutations!).

[kraplung]

The previously carefully hidden strings are beginning to show already!

[hammered]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

And there it is... unless of course the "credible intelligence services" were in on the act of trying to suppress true democracy lest their own countries go the same way (I don't believe this, but I thought I might try to pre-empt some possible refutations!).

It is quite likely that when/if there is an anti-thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not allowing the controversial one into their country. It is quite likely that when/if there is a pro-Thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not hindering the controversial ones travels.

[noahvail]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

And there it is... unless of course the "credible intelligence services" were in on the act of trying to suppress true democracy lest their own countries go the same way (I don't believe this, but I thought I might try to pre-empt some possible refutations!).

It is quite likely that when/if there is an anti-thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not allowing the controversial one into their country. It is quite likely that when/if there is a pro-Thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not hindering the controversial ones travels.

I reckon you nailed it in one. Well said.

[Pi Sek]

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

And there it is... unless of course the "credible intelligence services" were in on the act of trying to suppress true democracy lest their own countries go the same way (I don't believe this, but I thought I might try to pre-empt some possible refutations!).

It is quite likely that when/if there is an anti-thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not allowing the controversial one into their country. It is quite likely that when/if there is a pro-Thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not hindering the controversial ones travels.

A fair statement and yes, it is quite likely - "power countries" have admitted the likes of General Pinochet (just to give an example) as asylum seekers, which probably didn't please too many of the Chilean people (but was quite convenient for the government at the time). I suppose it depends more about the value of bilateral trade rather than right or wrong, which we all know is not black and white.

[noahvail]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

Rubbish. How many countries arrested Thaskin and extradited him to Thailand? Zero! Why?

And which ones banned him? Please bring official government statements by these countries and not some Kasit or Abhisit sayings that country XY banned Thaksin because of his 'crimes'.

That was the case with Japan for example. That Thaksin is banned there we heard only from Abhisit.

Now Abhisit gone and suddenly Japan has no problem with his crimes anymore. How it comes? Did the Thai PM made the Japanese authorities to bend the law? No.

The Thai PM will make no stress and silly complications with diplomatic notes of extradition request the Japanese would not follow anyway. Thats all.

England, for one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom

[noahvail]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

Rubbish. How many countries arrested Thaskin and extradited him to Thailand? Zero! Why?

And which ones banned him? Please bring official government statements by these countries and not some Kasit or Abhisit sayings that country XY banned Thaksin because of his 'crimes'.

That was the case with Japan for example. That Thaksin is banned there we heard only from Abhisit.

Now Abhisit gone and suddenly Japan has no problem with his crimes anymore. How it comes? Did the Thai PM made the Japanese authorities to bend the law? No.

The Thai PM will make no stress and silly complications with diplomatic notes of extradition request the Japanese would not follow anyway. Thats all.

England, for one: http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

Germany, for another, although I understand the ban was lifted 3 days after the election:

[Crushdepth]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

Rubbish. How many countries arrested Thaskin and extradited him to Thailand? Zero! Why?

And which ones banned him? Please bring official government statements by these countries and not some Kasit or Abhisit sayings that country XY banned Thaksin because of his 'crimes'.

That was the case with Japan for example. That Thaksin is banned there we heard only from Abhisit.

Now Abhisit gone and suddenly Japan has no problem with his crimes anymore. How it comes? Did the Thai PM made the Japanese authorities to bend the law? No.

The Thai PM will make no stress and silly complications with diplomatic notes of extradition request the Japanese would not follow anyway. Thats all.

Righto! I will have the official government statements delivered by diplomatic bag to your door. What a stupid thing to say. Look it up yourself.

Offhand, UK and Germany denied him entry, there's a start, and many others issued warnings. And for the 3rd time - you still haven't acknowledged this - the Japanese government has publicly stated that the Thai government made a special request for Thaksin to be granted entry. If you genuinely believe she didn't know anything about it, even though it was front page news concerning her government and her brother, you must be pretty gullible.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Crushdepth

[samurai]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

And there it is... unless of course the "credible intelligence services" were in on the act of trying to suppress true democracy lest their own countries go the same way (I don't believe this, but I thought I might try to pre-empt some possible refutations!).

It is quite likely that when/if there is an anti-thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not allowing the controversial one into their country. It is quite likely that when/if there is a pro-Thaksin government in power countries will be considering their interests best served by not hindering the controversial ones travels.

Thaksin was also diplomatic enough not to push it to the extend that these countries release an official 'NO, you are not welcome'.

On the diplomatic level everyone knew that the hothead and Thaksin hunter Kasit who would raise issues and go apesh_t for no reason than to score points in the domestic conflicts in Thailand will be sooner or later not in office anymore.

And the Abhisit administration knew that their Thai arrest warrant would be not enough for an extradition request. Interpol dismissed the conflict of interest case. With the charges of terrorism they didn't even tried it, nor translate the documents. Only for the local propaganda machine they made big noise about it. But actually never send some arrest warrants out or filled charges in a Montenegrin court.

The current government don't has to push these countries to give the Montenegrin a visa. They just have to send out the signals and give some feedback that they will make no stress and don't act like Kasit.

[Soutpeel]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

Rubbish. How many countries arrested Thaskin and extradited him to Thailand? Zero! Why?

And which ones banned him? Please bring official government statements by these countries and not some Kasit or Abhisit sayings that country XY banned Thaksin because of his 'crimes'.

That was the case with Japan for example. That Thaksin is banned there we heard only from Abhisit.

Now Abhisit gone and suddenly Japan has no problem with his crimes anymore. How it comes? Did the Thai PM made the Japanese authorities to bend the law? No.

The Thai PM will make no stress and silly complications with diplomatic notes of extradition request the Japanese would not follow anyway. Thats all.

England, for one: http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

England did not ban him....the United Kingdom banned him.....only England banning him would imply he could travel to Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland....

As to Samuri's comment.....No countries arrested old squarehead, because nobody in goverment in Thailand at the time asked them to.....He didnt commit any crimes in these countries (although buying into Man City, should be crime against humanity... ) therefore they had no reason to arrest him,

The onus was on Thailand to request he be detained pending extradition, therefore Thailand failed in this regard,

Abhsit's remark that they were waiting for translations to be done...rather BS/poor excuse, bloody hell man you went to Oxford, surely you could have done translation yourself...

Edited August 17, 2011 by Soutpeel

[rixalex]

Sure the media should report on this, but they should also get the perspective right and report on and prioritse the many issues that concern ordinary people a lot more than the travels or return of one man which only the higher echelons really fixate over.

...

Im sure PTP are doing things to help Thaksi, after all they are his party and the people knew this when electing them. However, they are also starting to do a lot of things that are more about running the country and the media would serve it better by using its reporters to look at what matters to the majority more.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment that the media should not focus on a single issue, I also think it's important that the media is aggressively looking for answers when a politician is doing the exact opposite of what they said they would do (to which you agreed in your first paragraph). Besides, I'm sure that some very naive types even might not have expected such brazen support to bring him back unchallenged.

I too appreciate hammered oft-repeated sentiments of late that the media and the public in general should focus on other more important matters besides Thaksin, but i don't think it helps when you have from various government sources contradicting statements, from one day to the next. Stop treating the public like imbeciles. Stop with the blatant bullsh*tting. It's quite simple, just follow the law. Do that and then perhaps then we can all focus on more pressing matters. Otherwise, expect it to remain a hot topic.

[noahvail]

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

Rubbish. How many countries arrested Thaskin and extradited him to Thailand? Zero! Why?

And which ones banned him? Please bring official government statements by these countries and not some Kasit or Abhisit sayings that country XY banned Thaksin because of his 'crimes'.

That was the case with Japan for example. That Thaksin is banned there we heard only from Abhisit.

Now Abhisit gone and suddenly Japan has no problem with his crimes anymore. How it comes? Did the Thai PM made the Japanese authorities to bend the law? No.

The Thai PM will make no stress and silly complications with diplomatic notes of extradition request the Japanese would not follow anyway. Thats all.

England, for one: http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

England did not ban him....the United Kingdom banned him.....only England banning him would imply he could travel to Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland....

Quite right, it was the UK. Apologies for my grievous error.

[samurai]

Apologize to Aspergers. Replace the term with 'inflexible bureaucrats'.

There is nothing to win if you go hardcore and insist on a Thaksin hunt and that the foreign countries should obey to Thailands demands. That is like acting like a little child.

These foreign countries consider these charges in Thailand against Thaksin as politically motivated charges and don't want get involved in that conflict. So don't push it. The real world is not like a discussion teh internets.

Don't cause conflict and stress and all other diplomatic relations stay smooth. That is diplomatique.

Rubbish. Quite a few of Thaksin's regular haunts banned him from entry because of his activities, and have credible intelligence services. If they thought the guy was being persecuted rather than prosecuted, he would probably have been granted asylum instead of told to get lost.

Rubbish. How many countries arrested Thaskin and extradited him to Thailand? Zero! Why?

And which ones banned him? Please bring official government statements by these countries and not some Kasit or Abhisit sayings that country XY banned Thaksin because of his 'crimes'.

That was the case with Japan for example. That Thaksin is banned there we heard only from Abhisit.

Now Abhisit gone and suddenly Japan has no problem with his crimes anymore. How it comes? Did the Thai PM made the Japanese authorities to bend the law? No.

The Thai PM will make no stress and silly complications with diplomatic notes of extradition request the Japanese would not follow anyway. Thats all.

Righto! I will have the official government statements delivered by diplomatic bag to your door. What a stupid thing to say. Look it up yourself.

Offhand, UK and Germany denied him entry, there's a start, and many others issued warnings. And for the 3rd time - you still haven't acknowledged this - the Japanese government has publicly stated that the Thai government made a special request for Thaksin to be granted entry. If you genuinely believe she didn't know anything about it, even though it was front page news concerning her government and her brother, you must be pretty gullible.

I see. You cannot show me any official government statement.

Germany just canceled his resident visa, because it was obtained in some 'fast track way' with involvement of an intelligence agency( under plausible deniability).

Did Thaksin travel with other visa to Germany? Yes, that was in the news.

The UK didn't gave an official statement.

Don't over interpret what an third sourced called 'request' as the official Japanese statement.

Which ones are the many other countries that banned Thaksin?

Edited August 17, 2011 by samurai

[Pi Sek]

I too appreciate hammered oft-repeated sentiments of late that the media and the public in general should focus on other more important matters besides Thaksin, but i don't think it helps when you have from various government sources contradicting statements, from one day to the next. Stop treating the public like imbeciles. Stop with the blatant bullsh*tting. It's quite simple, just follow the law. Do that and then perhaps then we can all focus on more pressing matters. Otherwise, expect it to remain a hot topic.

Moreso given the underlying reason for Peua Thai's victory - the right or wrong perception that the elite didn't treat the public with respect.

[Soutpeel]

And the Abhisit administration knew that their Thai arrest warrant would be not enough for an extradition request. Interpol dismissed the conflict of interest case. With the charges of terrorism they didn't even tried it, nor translate the documents. Only for the local propaganda machine they made big noise about it. But actually never send some arrest warrants out or filled charges in a Montenegrin court.

Sumo

My understanding was the Thai goverment never even contacted interpol at the time, and if memory serves they stated this, and it would not have been Interpols mandate to determine any conflict of interest.

They would have acted on a request by the Thai goverment to execute the arrest warrant, it would be up to the extradition court in the country were he was arrested to determine whether the grounds for extradition where based on legimate cause or politically motivated.

[samurai]

England, for one: http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

England did not ban him....the United Kingdom banned him.....only England banning him would imply he could travel to Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland....

Quite right, it was the UK. Apologies for my grievous error.

"Banned" for what reason?

And i don't consider a wikipedia page as official government statement.

If you check the news about that case, you will always find some line like that "British Embassy officials in Thailand refused to confirm the report" or similar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/3404374/Former-Manchester-City-FC-owner-Thaksin-Shinawatra-banned-from-Britain.html

And that is the point. It was only a temporary practices as long the Democrats were in power, but never ever any official acknowledgement that Thaksin is "the criminal" or "the terrorist". Something like that was only suggested and implied by the Democrats and the local Thaksin hunting central office with the boss Kasit.

[noahvail]

England, for one: http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

England did not ban him....the United Kingdom banned him.....only England banning him would imply he could travel to Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland....

Quite right, it was the UK. Apologies for my grievous error.

"Banned" for what reason?

And i don't consider a wikipedia page as official government statement.

If you check the news about that case, you will always find some line like that "British Embassy officials in Thailand refused to confirm the report" or similar.

http://www.telegraph...om-Britain.html

And that is the point. It was only a temporary practices as long the Democrats were in power, but never ever any official acknowledgement that Thaksin is "the criminal" or "the terrorist". Something like that was only suggested and implied by the Democrats and the local Thaksin hunting central office with the boss Kasit.

Of course there's no official government statement - it is not the policy of the Home Secretary to do so. A prior HS, Jacqui Smith, named 16 individuals who were banned, and nearly lost her post because of it. So, the bans do take place, but for their own reasons, the government doesn't make official statements on them. So how do they get announced? They leak them to the fourth estate, who then informs the public.

But I'm sure you knew that to begin with - which makes your argument specious.

[scorecard]

Although it is intersting to talk about Thai politics and even try to guess what may happen or why something happened, at the end of the day for us on here it is all academic really as we dont have a vote and it isnt our country and the people do seem to have a mind of their own in making decisions that doesnt always fit with what media, government or powerful people want.

... and especially with what many of the posters on this forum want!

Considering that there are about 30 active posters, and around 26 of whom are very clearly anti-Thaksinitas for reasons apparent only to themselves, yes, the use of the word "many" is correct. Sadly, it's not worth one iota to the real world out there.

Not correct, many people who post here and show their dislike, serious dislike for thaksin have many times explained in details their specific reason why they dislike him.

[Buchholz]

Although it is intersting to talk about Thai politics and even try to guess what may happen or why something happened, at the end of the day for us on here it is all academic really as we dont have a vote and it isnt our country and the people do seem to have a mind of their own in making decisions that doesnt always fit with what media, government or powerful people want.

... and especially with what many of the posters on this forum want!

Considering that there are about 30 active posters, and around 26 of whom are very clearly anti-Thaksinitas for reasons apparent only to themselves, yes, the use of the word "many" is correct. Sadly, it's not worth one iota to the real world out there.

Not correct, many people who post here and show their dislike, serious dislike for thaksin have many times explained in details their specific reason why they dislike him.

You're posting the reality to someone intent on flaming a couple dozen members with a single post who just happens to overlook the hundreds of transient pro-Thaksin posters who take turns trolling.

.

[noahvail]

"Banned" for what reason?

And i don't consider a wikipedia page as official government statement.

If you check the news about that case, you will always find some line like that "British Embassy officials in Thailand refused to confirm the report" or similar.

http://www.telegraph...om-Britain.html

And that is the point. It was only a temporary practices as long the Democrats were in power, but never ever any official acknowledgement that Thaksin is "the criminal" or "the terrorist". Something like that was only suggested and implied by the Democrats and the local Thaksin hunting central office with the boss Kasit.

Of course there's no official government statement - it is not the policy of the Home Secretary to do so. A prior HS, Jacqui Smith, named 16 individuals who were banned, and nearly lost her post because of it. So, the bans do take place, but for their own reasons, the government doesn't make official statements on them. So how do they get announced? They leak them to the fourth estate, who then informs the public.

But I'm sure you knew that to begin with - which makes your argument specious.

No, i didn't know that.

You mean the British government would rather "leak" it via some posts on a Thaivisaforum or in wikipedia that Thaksin is banned rather than to give an official statement and also deny any conformation of this? That is new to me.

So than can also nobody claim that Thaksin is officially banned nor knew some reasons for it.

I believe that during the last two years or so Thaskin wouldn't get an official Visa, but i think also he never even tried it and pushed the British authorities in the situation to give an official 'NO'.

But i also think that that the reasons are of diplomatic nature and issues with the then Thai government and not because they consider Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorist.

And that is the point again. On the international level nobody will see Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorists and deny him entry for these reasons.

On the juristic level on the way of the law Thailand can achieve nothing to get Thaksin. Only with some (un)diplomatic pressure some half-assed "bans". But what is won with this pressure in terms of good bilateral relationship? Nothing.

The pusher can only score points on the domestic level here in Thailand, but it is stress in the bilateral relationship.

Not to make Thaksin to an issue is a win win situation for the foreign affairs.

Evidently you don't know the meaning of the fourth estate. It refers to news organizations, newspapers, television news departments, and the like. Hardly a ThaiVisa forum.

I don't know if he applied for a visa to travel to the UK in the last two years. I don't follow such things, as a rule. But I do know that he and his wife earlier had applied for political asylum in the UK: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/10/05/thaksin-shinawatra-seeking-political-asylum-in-britain-115875-20775717/

They withdrew their applications within days, without having their applications approved. Who knows what he was thinking? Not me. I could speculate that he was told through unofficial channels that they wouldn't be approved, so they might have withdrawn it in order not to lose face...but that is mere speculation on my part.

[scorecard]

"Banned" for what reason?

And i don't consider a wikipedia page as official government statement.

If you check the news about that case, you will always find some line like that "British Embassy officials in Thailand refused to confirm the report" or similar.

http://www.telegraph...om-Britain.html

And that is the point. It was only a temporary practices as long the Democrats were in power, but never ever any official acknowledgement that Thaksin is "the criminal" or "the terrorist". Something like that was only suggested and implied by the Democrats and the local Thaksin hunting central office with the boss Kasit.

Of course there's no official government statement - it is not the policy of the Home Secretary to do so. A prior HS, Jacqui Smith, named 16 individuals who were banned, and nearly lost her post because of it. So, the bans do take place, but for their own reasons, the government doesn't make official statements on them. So how do they get announced? They leak them to the fourth estate, who then informs the public.

But I'm sure you knew that to begin with - which makes your argument specious.

No, i didn't know that.

You mean the British government would rather "leak" it via some posts on a Thaivisaforum or in wikipedia that Thaksin is banned rather than to give an official statement and also deny any conformation of this? That is new to me.

So than can also nobody claim that Thaksin is officially banned nor knew some reasons for it.

I believe that during the last two years or so Thaskin wouldn't get an official Visa, but i think also he never even tried it and pushed the British authorities in the situation to give an official 'NO'.

But i also think that that the reasons are of diplomatic nature and issues with the then Thai government and not because they consider Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorist.

And that is the point again. On the international level nobody will see Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorists and deny him entry for these reasons.

On the juristic level on the way of the law Thailand can achieve nothing to get Thaksin. Only with some (un)diplomatic pressure some half-assed "bans". But what is won with this pressure in terms of good bilateral relationship? Nothing.

The pusher can only score points on the domestic level here in Thailand, but it is stress in the bilateral relationship.

Not to make Thaksin to an issue is a win win situation for the foreign affairs.

Your opinion:

"But i also think that that the reasons are of diplomatic nature and issues with the then Thai government and not because they consider Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorist.

And that is the point again. On the international level nobody will see Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorists and deny him entry for these reasons."

Sorry but your argument is not valid.

You seem to be saying that UK banned him because the Thai government of the day asked them to do so. This is total rubbish, the UK or any other first world country does not ban people simply because of pressure from another country.

The UK, like all countries has experienced and capable people who investigate the details then the relevant authority makes a decision on these details.

You say: "On the international level nobody will see Thaksin as the criminal or the terrorists and deny him entry for these reasons.":

That's your opinion not a researched fact, and I don't accept your opinion at all.