Protecting Your Investment

[tmd5855]

Halfway through building a house up Chaiyapum.

Firstly there is no Thai girlfriend involved, it is my friends wife who has everything in her name.

Been family friends for 7+years and my mate who I work with has been married to her for 11 years.

She is helping me to build my retirement home (I am 56). She is has a local lawyer who will transfer title of land and house to any Thai Lady I may meet. But she is scared that Thai GF will not have the most honest of motives, so wants me to get independent legal advise.

Sunbelt will be contacted when I come home on leave. At present working offshore, China.

Can someone advise me please on the following and anything else that may spring to mind???

1) Told that if I marry, I can get a lease from my wife for 15 x 2 years to stay in the property, but if we divorce that lease agreement is void, this correct??

2) Also the lease can be sold to a 3rd party.

Is that correct?

3) The person that gives me a lease...... That person dies..... her family inherit the property and can evict me??

This correct

4) Heard that the Thai person who owns the land can sign a document at the land registry giving up rights to the land/house for the duration of my life. (This is more interesting)

Is this correct.

All advise comments welcomed. Realise I will need to take legal advise (Sunbelt?) only wish to know options, pitfalls and questions I will need to have answered.

Thanks in advance.

TMD

[PattayaParent]

1) you can get a lease for the full 30 years. don't know what happens in the case of divorce but I would expect the lease to still be valid.

2) yes, but the terms of the lease would still be valid.

3) yes, but don't know about the eviction part, they may still have to honour the lease. But the property can be left to you by your wife if stated in a Will, you just have to sell it within 1 year.

4) this is probably a usufruct.

[adder]

The lease is still valid after devorce but if you want to be double sure just stipulate in the lease agreement that is the case

[stgrhe]

1) Told that if I marry, I can get a lease from my wife for 15 x 2 years to stay in the property, but if we divorce that lease agreement is void, this correct?

You can lease the land for any period up to thirty years. Note! There is no reason for you to lease the house as this can be owned by yourself provided certain measures have been taken. Any lease over three years must be properly registered at the local land office to be valid, else it will expire after three years.

2) Also the lease can be sold to a 3rd party.

Is that correct?

That is correct provided that provision has been entered on the land title document.

3) The person that gives me a lease...... That person dies..... her family inherit the property and can evict me??

This correct

It is correct that the person's family will inherit the land provided no will has been written, but the new owner is oblige to honor the current lease.

4) Heard that the Thai person who owns the land can sign a document at the land registry giving up rights to the land/house for the duration of my life. (This is more interesting)

Is this correct.

As I mention above, the house can be owned by yourself. As for the land, yes there are either the usufruct or the superficies that provides habitation of the land until death of the beneficiary. A usufruct right cannot be sold or inherited while a superficies can be inherited.

All land offices will, however, not agree to register usufructs or superficies. Building your house in Chayapum I suggest you contact Seb. at Isaan Lawyers in Nakhon Ratchasima. He is very good.

[thaiwanderer]

1) Told that if I marry, I can get a lease from my wife for 15 x 2 years to stay in the property, but if we divorce that lease agreement is void, this correct?

The maximum residential lease is 30 years so don't know why 15 x 2 years has been mentioned.

It might be to avoid the need to register (as less than 3 years) but not registering is against your interests.

Also, a 30 year lease avoids theproblems of attempting to renew during that time.

The problems with wife as landowner are the land office may refuse to register her ownership at all.

Even if they do register it they may require you to sign a form that the land is entirely hers which you may rue come divorce.

Contracts between husband and wife are voidable any time during the marriage and iirc within a year of divorce.

At any time she or others might state the land puchase / lease was all a sham, you could lose it all and be guilty of an imprisonable offence.

2) Also the lease can be sold to a 3rd party.

Is that correct?

If the lease specifies it, you can sell it to a third party. Though of course it is a diminishing asset.

3) The person that gives me a lease...... That person dies..... her family inherit the property and can evict me??

This correct

The lease continues. The main problem with this is it makes enforcing renewals even less likely.

4) Heard that the Thai person who owns the land can sign a document at the land registry giving up rights to the land/house for the duration of my life. (This is more interesting)

Is this correct.

There are superficies, rights of habitation and usufruct. I think you may be referring to usufruct.

You can entirely own the house although the usefulness of that is of course dependent on how secure your right to use the land is.

Hopefully this will point you in the right direction as regards further reading within the wealth of threads here and elsewhere before then taking legal advice.

You might also wish to consider mortgage (you to landowner) or your own company ownership in attempting to secure things.

However there is no magic answer. You can own freehold within a condo but it means owning a condo unit.

To the extent that you wish to secure beneficial control and use you are attempting to circuvent the general prohibition on foreigners owning land.

Past enforcement or lack thereof of regulations is no indicator of future enforcement in your individual case and regulations can anyway change.

[tmd5855]

Thank you all for replying.

Well thought and informative replies, will be contacting 'Seb' at Issan lawyers.

Intend retiring within 3-4 years and do not want the risk of meeting/falling in love with a woman who has me twisted around her little finger while my head is detached from sane thought process.

If you get what I mean, want to avoid.

Thanks again

TMD

[Boater]

nver put ANYTHING in a thai womens name, married or not, seen to many times ferang lose everything

best to put the land and house into a company, not to sure why your lawyer has not advised this already

[stgrhe]

nver put ANYTHING in a thai womens name, married or not, seen to many times ferang lose everything

best to put the land and house into a company, not to sure why your lawyer has not advised this already

If they loose "everything" it is most likely because they didn't do their homework. Ignorance is never excused in a court of law. The "company route" is, however, illegal if it used for a nominee company since it circumvent the spirit of the law.

[beamer]

Just take it on as a 30 year lease in your name only from the land owner or company that owns the land ! and register with Lands Dept .

That will see you through retirement

[LivinLOS]

Just another data point.. While it may all seem like a great idea now.. Things change.. Places cheage.. People change..

And if you give someone else ownership / control of that land, while taking a lease in return, the property is very hard to sell as other people will want full ownership not a time ticking down leasehold.

If your looking at the property as a small investment, that doesnt much worry you, then fine.. But a lease is far less of an asset than ownership.

[thaihome]

The lease is still valid after devorce but if you want to be double sure just stipulate in the lease agreement that is the case

Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

If they sign the lease as part of a pre-nuptial agreement and register the agreement at the time of marriage it is valid, otherwise, the wife can break the lease anytime.

I would think the best thing the OP could do is get a usufruct from his friend’s wife and just leave the property in her name.

TH

[Tanaka]

As has been said, a usufruct valid for life is the only way to go here. Forget the lease, it is lesss secure. And you must register a rental sum. When time comes for building, take out a superficiary on the building. Then you own your house. It must be done before the house is finished.

[InterestedObserver]

As has been said, a usufruct valid for life is the only way to go here. Forget the lease, it is lesss secure. And you must register a rental sum. When time comes for building, take out a superficiary on the building. Then you own your house. It must be done before the house is finished.

I have yet to hear of a lifetime usufruct and a lifetime superficies both being registered against the same piece of land.

[tmd5855]

Thanks to all of you who have posted replies/comments. It has opened up many possible scenarios and conversations.

Up Barmet Narong looking at the preparations and have pointed out to my mate (Might be wrong on this)

If his wife, her mother and daughter were all to pass away in an accident?? Her two brothers would inherit everything. That had his wife jumping up and down so she wants to go down the same route as me to protect him?

Funny old world??

Thanks again to all for advise, being here 7+years now seen many guys loose the shirts on their backs.

But there seems to be some decent/non-mercenary Thai females.