Legendary British Farmer Joe Loses Water-Tight 30-Year Lease In Thailand

[benbear]

Big fan of andrew drummond's work, his website is always worth reading and catching up on

Feel for Joe and hope it can be sorted out in a fair way

[soundman]

I always thought farming was one of the reserved for Thai nationals occupations.

I believe that actually doing the farming work is prohibited for foreigners, however, holding shares in an agricultural business is fine.

[jybkk]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

to be fair I don't think Thais discriminate here..... one example, the 45 year old brother of my (Thai) girlfriend recently married a very cute 23year old Thai girl, he has a lot of rubber trees making about 200,000Bht every month, she made it very clear that if he doesn't give her a good part of this to her and her side of the family every month then she's off back to mummy.....

You are absolutely correct. Many here fail to see that this kind of action by Thais are not directed towards farangs, but towards anyone who has money.

Mariage in Thailand is just a matter of money, love doesn't count here. Getting married for Thais is like securing assets. Most of Thai women (because they won't be the ones bringing the money at home) make sure they will have enough property for themselves if they were to divorce after their "expiry date". They do this with farangs, but they also do this to thai men too. There's no discrimination here.

I've seen many of these "arrangements" in purely thai mariages... and sometimes with the roles reversed (the husband securing some assets in case of separation)... but that's much more rare.

You can, however, find Thai women who don't play in this scheme. I know some. But it's pretty rare, as thai men do not give a great example of trustworthiness, the girls assume by default that they are going to be cheated on, one day or another.

[rgs2001uk]

The Thai bashing going on here is unbelievable.

I have a couple of questions to the detractors:

If you live in Thailand but feel the need to rubbish the place and the people endlessly then why do you stay?

If you don't live in Thailand and are not in a relationship with a Thai then why are you here in this forum rubbishing a place and people you know nothing about?

If you have married a beautiful woman 20 or more years younger than you and you think it's because you are a great person then why couldn't you jag a young beauty in your home country?

I am married to a Thai lady 19 years my junior, we presently live in another 3rd world country where I am working at present. I've lived here for nearly 20 years and have seen plenty of blokes who fall hopelessly in love with young girls and then suffer emotionally or financially or both. There is no doubt the vast majority of these types of relationships (ones with a substantial age difference) are based initially on the lady wanting out of a desperate situation, either abject poverty or being subject to routine bashings. Not because they find old men attractive. This happens in all 3rd world countries, it is not unqiue to Thailand. Many of these relationships fail and many prosper. Young blokes have an excuse for being naive, older men don't. Accept the fact that the lady is with you to escape and try to make it work. Most older blokes can tell very quickly, certainly inside a year, if they're being had.

Where I live there is a fairly small Thai community (30 - 40 ladies) comprised almost exclusively of women who were "working" in Thailand and subsequently married a farang client who offered them a permanent way out. They are a highly principled group and their husbands (like myself) are the happiest they have ever been. There are few exceptions. Perhaps it should be pointed out though that these men all have many years of 3rd world country experience.

LIfe is what you make it. Be a realist and be careful. If you're not happy then do something about it, don't sit and bitch and try to make everyone around you miserable too.

If you screwed up, it's your fault, no one else's.

Well said! :jap:

here here

I also know of, quote "a fairly small Thai community (30 - 40 ladies) comprised almost exclusively of women who were "working" in Thailand and subsequently married a farang client"and know for a fact that the qoute "highly principled group" couldnt be further fom the truth.

From the jealousy, bitterness and resentment to the hatred and hostility shown to each other, to the lieing cheating and stealing and thats just to the other Thais, never mind the husbands.

Wifes who cannot or will not cook, wifes who refuse to clean the house or do washing and ironing, house boys to do everything, in some cases the women herself.

All day spent gambling drinking and sat on their ass eating som tam whilst viewing Thai soaps on the tv.

The boyfriends, both inside the 3rd world country and here in Thailand.

Husbands at their wits end trying to keep up with the ever growing demands.

One husband setting fire to his wifes clothes to try and keep her indoors and away from her gambling friends, no problem they just came to her house.

A husband on reaching 65 and facing retirement writing a letter trying to be kept on as a "special advisor" such was his financial plight.

Another husband driven to the airport literally kicking and screaming when his job was done away with, the same guy breaking down in tears in a managers office begging for any job that would enable him to stay.

A Thai woman willing to give away her baby to anyone willing to take it off her hands.

Another who (allegedly) tried to have her husband shot whilst on holiday in Thailand.

Others going on holiday with the boyfriend to Thailand under the pretext of taking care of family business.

It was my experience that quote, " Most older blokes can tell very quickly, certainly inside a year, if they're being had.", most of them were either in denial, turned a blind eye to or were ignorant of what was happening around them, this inspite of being told what was going on.

One mug I knew blamed himself for his wife screwing around, told me it was his fault for working too hard, others heard all the excuses and still put up with it.

One guy I knew told me his wife had made his life a living hell, constantly belittling him in front of others, the poor guy couldnt do enough, thankfully he saw the light and has since divorced.

Yet another whose wife took him to the cleaners, her and her Thai boyfriend are now living in a house this sucker bought and driving his car, damned near broke the poor guy.

I could go on, but why bother.

We must of course be talking about two different 3rd world countries with two differing types of women.

[Screws]

Has anybody guesstimated the amount of money coming in on these one way scams?

Going by the stories here from just a few posters, and more to come out soon, I would say of the order of a billion ß a month -

Do you know what a billion is??? If you do, then you are off your head. If you don't, you shouldn't use the word!!!!!

Well a yank bill, not a pommy one. That's only a million US a day - not impossible considering the constant stories like this.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Has anybody guesstimated the amount of money coming in on these one way scams?

Going by the stories here from just a few posters, and more to come out soon, I would say of the order of a billion ß a month -

Do you know what a billion is??? If you do, then you are off your head. If you don't, you shouldn't use the word!!!!!

Well a yank bill, not a pommy one. That's only a million US a day - not impossible considering the constant stories like this.

So you are saying that there are 1,000 days in a month then!!!!!!

[ozziebloke]

The Thai bashing going on here is unbelievable.

I have a couple of questions to the detractors:

If you live in Thailand but feel the need to rubbish the place and the people endlessly then why do you stay?

If you don't live in Thailand and are not in a relationship with a Thai then why are you here in this forum rubbishing a place and people you know nothing about?

If you have married a beautiful woman 20 or more years younger than you and you think it's because you are a great person then why couldn't you jag a young beauty in your home country?

I am married to a Thai lady 19 years my junior, we presently live in another 3rd world country where I am working at present. I've lived here for nearly 20 years and have seen plenty of blokes who fall hopelessly in love with young girls and then suffer emotionally or financially or both. There is no doubt the vast majority of these types of relationships (ones with a substantial age difference) are based initially on the lady wanting out of a desperate situation, either abject poverty or being subject to routine bashings. Not because they find old men attractive. This happens in all 3rd world countries, it is not unqiue to Thailand. Many of these relationships fail and many prosper. Young blokes have an excuse for being naive, older men don't. Accept the fact that the lady is with you to escape and try to make it work. Most older blokes can tell very quickly, certainly inside a year, if they're being had.

Where I live there is a fairly small Thai community (30 - 40 ladies) comprised almost exclusively of women who were "working" in Thailand and subsequently married a farang client who offered them a permanent way out. They are a highly principled group and their husbands (like myself) are the happiest they have ever been. There are few exceptions. Perhaps it should be pointed out though that these men all have many years of 3rd world country experience.

LIfe is what you make it. Be a realist and be careful. If you're not happy then do something about it, don't sit and bitch and try to make everyone around you miserable too.

If you screwed up, it's your fault, no one else's.

Well said! :jap:

here here

I also know of, quote "a fairly small Thai community (30 - 40 ladies) comprised almost exclusively of women who were "working" in Thailand and subsequently married a farang client"and know for a fact that the qoute "highly principled group" couldnt be further fom the truth.

From the jealousy, bitterness and resentment to the hatred and hostility shown to each other, to the lieing cheating and stealing and thats just to the other Thais, never mind the husbands.

Wifes who cannot or will not cook, wifes who refuse to clean the house or do washing and ironing, house boys to do everything, in some cases the women herself.

All day spent gambling drinking and sat on their ass eating som tam whilst viewing Thai soaps on the tv.

The boyfriends, both inside the 3rd world country and here in Thailand.

Husbands at their wits end trying to keep up with the ever growing demands.

One husband setting fire to his wifes clothes to try and keep her indoors and away from her gambling friends, no problem they just came to her house.

A husband on reaching 65 and facing retirement writing a letter trying to be kept on as a "special advisor" such was his financial plight.

Another husband driven to the airport literally kicking and screaming when his job was done away with, the same guy breaking down in tears in a managers office begging for any job that would enable him to stay.

A Thai woman willing to give away her baby to anyone willing to take it off her hands.

Another who (allegedly) tried to have her husband shot whilst on holiday in Thailand.

Others going on holiday with the boyfriend to Thailand under the pretext of taking care of family business.

It was my experience that quote, " Most older blokes can tell very quickly, certainly inside a year, if they're being had.", most of them were either in denial, turned a blind eye to or were ignorant of what was happening around them, this inspite of being told what was going on.

One mug I knew blamed himself for his wife screwing around, told me it was his fault for working too hard, others heard all the excuses and still put up with it.

One guy I knew told me his wife had made his life a living hell, constantly belittling him in front of others, the poor guy couldnt do enough, thankfully he saw the light and has since divorced.

Yet another whose wife took him to the cleaners, her and her Thai boyfriend are now living in a house this sucker bought and driving his car, damned near broke the poor guy.

I could go on, but why bother.

We must of course be talking about two different 3rd world countries with two differing types of women.

Yes we are !!!!!!

[Screws]

Has anybody guesstimated the amount of money coming in on these one way scams?

Going by the stories here from just a few posters, and more to come out soon, I would say of the order of a billion ß a month -

Do you know what a billion is??? If you do, then you are off your head. If you don't, you shouldn't use the word!!!!!

Well a yank bill, not a pommy one. That's only a million US a day - not impossible considering the constant stories like this.

So you are saying that there are 1,000 days in a month then!!!!!!

billion ß

apology required

Edited August 23, 2011 by Screws

[SICHONSTEVE]

OK, I appreciate that are saying 1,000,000 dollars a month now, my error. So you are implying that there are 1,000 yanks sending 1,000 dollars a month to their sweethearts every month. Taking all things into consideration:

yanks - gullibility - intelligence levels (lack of) - stupidity etc: then I think that it is highly possible. In fact you have convinced me by your arguments - well done :jap:

[sfbandung]

The Thai bashing going on here is unbelievable.

I have a couple of questions to the detractors:

If you live in Thailand but feel the need to rubbish the place and the people endlessly then why do you stay?

If you don't live in Thailand and are not in a relationship with a Thai then why are you here in this forum rubbishing a place and people you know nothing about?

If you have married a beautiful woman 20 or more years younger than you and you think it's because you are a great person then why couldn't you jag a young beauty in your home country?

I am married to a Thai lady 19 years my junior, we presently live in another 3rd world country where I am working at present. I've lived here for nearly 20 years and have seen plenty of blokes who fall hopelessly in love with young girls and then suffer emotionally or financially or both. There is no doubt the vast majority of these types of relationships (ones with a substantial age difference) are based initially on the lady wanting out of a desperate situation, either abject poverty or being subject to routine bashings. Not because they find old men attractive. This happens in all 3rd world countries, it is not unqiue to Thailand. Many of these relationships fail and many prosper. Young blokes have an excuse for being naive, older men don't. Accept the fact that the lady is with you to escape and try to make it work. Most older blokes can tell very quickly, certainly inside a year, if they're being had.

Where I live there is a fairly small Thai community (30 - 40 ladies) comprised almost exclusively of women who were "working" in Thailand and subsequently married a farang client who offered them a permanent way out. They are a highly principled group and their husbands (like myself) are the happiest they have ever been. There are few exceptions. Perhaps it should be pointed out though that these men all have many years of 3rd world country experience.

LIfe is what you make it. Be a realist and be careful. If you're not happy then do something about it, don't sit and bitch and try to make everyone around you miserable too.

If you screwed up, it's your fault, no one else's.

Emm. 'If you screwed up its your fault, no one elses." First of all this is a typical story of what can happen in Thailand. It is certainly not written to bring all the Thai bashers out of the wood-work, but that is something of an inevitability, because of the number of bitter people out there.

The point is, even though Mr.Stanyer made mistakes, he thought (1) Thai law would protect him and he would at least get 50 per cent of the assets from his marriage back and (2) he could rely on the honesty of lawyers one of whom he had known for 25 years.

No one could have anticipated that documents could be altered and the perpretrators could to easily get away with it. Or is it your assertion that he should have anticipated that, which is fair enough.

Those who read the story of Colin Vard in Phuket who lost not one but SIX properties will have known this could only have been by using false papers and sorting out senior police, legal, and land officers figures.

If you meant to say however if you screwed up its your own fault because dishonesty is going to hit you in the face at every level in Thailand, then that would be a more accurate assessment.

It may be that your group of 'highly principled' ex-pat husbands and Thai wives (most of whom you say were former working girls) are living happily because they are indeed in a foreign third world country and the inevitable few do not have the wherewithal to do anything else.

I certainly know of many marriages, which while apparently successful abroad, ended up with the husband being cleaned up when he returned to Thailand with his wife.

Hi Andrew,

With respect, I think you misunderstood where I was coming from. Probably my fault as I was replying primarily to the thread as opposed to the post. The level of invective directed at Thailand and Thai people in general bothered me. This despite several interventions by the moderator.

This bloke's situation speaks for itself. But I must say that after three children the demise of the relationship must have happened over a long period of time, or the scam had an incredibly long gestation period. I made very specific mention of prior "working girls" because the vast majority of this type of relationship had their origins exactly there. And in my (limited) experience they tend mostly to have happy endings. Unfortunately bad news makes better press.

That said however, there are disasters everywhere. My main point was that there seems to be quite a number of people in the virtual "here" that have an intense dislike for the country and its people. And I'll say it again, if you really hate it, leave. And if you really dislike Thailand in general why be a part of this forum?

In the community where I live it is true that most of the men (and women) are happy. Perhaps we live in a fool's paradise. It may be that you have a valid point that once back domiciled in Thailand it will all change. But for now I love my wife and her family and I have never been happier. I'm not advocating against the protection of assets belonging to a union being split evenly in the event of a demise, or in support of the deliberate actions of government (or otherwise) officials to assist in the gaining of financial advantage unfairly.

Sometimes it works is all. And it seemed to need saying here.

Cheers,

Steve

Edited August 23, 2011 by sfbandung

[Steely Dan]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

to be fair I don't think Thais discriminate here..... one example, the 45 year old brother of my (Thai) girlfriend recently married a very cute 23year old Thai girl, he has a lot of rubber trees making about 200,000Bht every month, she made it very clear that if he doesn't give her a good part of this to her and her side of the family every month then she's off back to mummy.....

You are absolutely correct. Many here fail to see that this kind of action by Thais are not directed towards farangs, but towards anyone who has money.

Mariage in Thailand is just a matter of money, love doesn't count here. Getting married for Thais is like securing assets. Most of Thai women (because they won't be the ones bringing the money at home) make sure they will have enough property for themselves if they were to divorce after their "expiry date". They do this with farangs, but they also do this to thai men too. There's no discrimination here.

I've seen many of these "arrangements" in purely thai mariages... and sometimes with the roles reversed (the husband securing some assets in case of separation)... but that's much more rare.

You can, however, find Thai women who don't play in this scheme. I know some. But it's pretty rare, as thai men do not give a great example of trustworthiness, the girls assume by default that they are going to be cheated on, one day or another.

I would tend to agree, Buddhist culture was born out of Hindu culture and though the caste system is less explicit for Buddhism I think there is still an ingrained belief that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more. Farrang often fit the having more criteria and the fact the law also favours Thais is just the cherry on the cake.

[Richard4849]

Anyone who gets up in arms by an Andrew Drummond tabloid tale of woe needs to have his head examined.

[surangw]

if he looses his farm, and thais run it, it will turn to crap in short order

[Richard4849]

Because Thais don't know how to run a farm as well as a farang? What racist trash...getting awfully tired of it here.

[Thakkar]

You are absolutely correct. Many here fail to see that this kind of action by Thais are not directed towards farangs, but towards anyone who has money.

Mariage in Thailand is just a matter of money, love doesn't count here. Getting married for Thais is like securing assets. Most of Thai women (because they won't be the ones bringing the money at home) make sure they will have enough property for themselves if they were to divorce after their "expiry date". They do this with farangs, but they also do this to thai men too. There's no discrimination here.

I've seen many of these "arrangements" in purely thai mariages... and sometimes with the roles reversed (the husband securing some assets in case of separation)... but that's much more rare.

You can, however, find Thai women who don't play in this scheme. I know some. But it's pretty rare, as thai men do not give a great example of trustworthiness, the girls assume by default that they are going to be cheated on, one day or another.

I would tend to agree, Buddhist culture was born out of Hindu culture and though the caste system is less explicit for Buddhism I think there is still an ingrained belief that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more. Farrang often fit the having more criteria and the fact the law also favours Thais is just the cherry on the cake.

I've read some pretty inane stuff here on TV, some of it posted by yours truly (I love reading my own posts once I get sober). But this is award-winning inanity, so, kudos.

To go from: Buddhism derives from Hinduism which has a cast system straight to "there is still an ingrained belief [among Buddhists/Hindus?] that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more" is bizarre reasoning. I can only assume that you've had some bad Sambuca (been there) and will wake up tomorrow and chuckle at your own post, the way I often do at mine.

T

[surangw]

Because Thais don't know how to run a farm as well as a farang? What racist trash...getting awfully tired of it here.

maybe I am being a bit harsh on the thais, but no experience like the person that put all those years into it.

take over of farms in Rhodesia comes to mind

[MAJIC]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

[Gary A]

I'm married and have a Thai wife. And yes, I have bought her property and signed the paper saying that I have no claim on that property. And no, I didn't even consider any of the dodgy work arounds. It should be quite obvious that it is illegal for a non Thai to own property other than a condo.

I do own a nice condo that I purchased in my name prior to my marriage. I have a pickup truck in my name and the car is in my wife's name.

The old saying that a fool and his money are soon parted is especially apt here in Thailand and everywhere else in the world too. You look out for number one in this life because no one else is going to look after you.

I simply cannot work up much sympathy for fools. You made your bed, now sleep in it. I was in business with a "trusted" Thai partner and between my partner and MY crooked lawyer, I lost everything I put in the business. I learned from that experience and it won't happen again.

[kutjebu]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

You are absolute right.

[Richard4849]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

Well, I'm sure glad I never listened to advice like this. I arrived in Thailand empty-handed in my mid-twenties, and 20+ years later -- without bragging too much -- have done very well for myself here.

[alina]

Now think of all those silly people that have bought on a 30 year lease from a so called builder, married to a Thai, all the land is in her name, she can borrow without the leaser's knowledge against the land. In 30 years the land is and house is hers again.

FOOLS

[spidermike007]

It is a sad story. But, I always say do not buy anything here in the name of a Thai national, that you are not prepared to walk away from. Personally, I own a house up north, in the name of my thai girlfriend (who I have been with for 6 years), and also a car in her name. But, I would be prepared to walk away from both of them, if need be. If things went south with us, I would not expect to get either of them. That is the way to play it here. It is their country, and as we all know they are very protective of it, and intensely nationalistic, when it suits them. So, though I feel bad for this guy, I am not surprised, and he should not be either. Looks like he married the wrong girl.

[Oberkommando]

Why invest anything in a country that does not want you here nor provides proper rights and protection for foreigners residing here?

Fool's gold.

[rgs2001uk]

Why invest anything in a country that does not want you here nor provides proper rights and protection for foreigners residing here?

Fool's gold.

Agree with the jist of your post, however I find the following a bit missleading, "nor provides proper rights and protection for foreigners residing here?".

Its my understanding the laws are already in place to prevent we farangs from being ripped off, we cannot legally own land here, its only when farang attempt to circumvent laws that are there to protect them they run into problems.

Why they chose to do is beyond me.

I sleep easy in my bed at night because I have nothing here.

[Steely Dan]

You are absolutely correct. Many here fail to see that this kind of action by Thais are not directed towards farangs, but towards anyone who has money.

Mariage in Thailand is just a matter of money, love doesn't count here. Getting married for Thais is like securing assets. Most of Thai women (because they won't be the ones bringing the money at home) make sure they will have enough property for themselves if they were to divorce after their "expiry date". They do this with farangs, but they also do this to thai men too. There's no discrimination here.

I've seen many of these "arrangements" in purely thai mariages... and sometimes with the roles reversed (the husband securing some assets in case of separation)... but that's much more rare.

You can, however, find Thai women who don't play in this scheme. I know some. But it's pretty rare, as thai men do not give a great example of trustworthiness, the girls assume by default that they are going to be cheated on, one day or another.

I would tend to agree, Buddhist culture was born out of Hindu culture and though the caste system is less explicit for Buddhism I think there is still an ingrained belief that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more. Farrang often fit the having more criteria and the fact the law also favours Thais is just the cherry on the cake.

I've read some pretty inane stuff here on TV, some of it posted by yours truly (I love reading my own posts once I get sober). But this is award-winning inanity, so, kudos.

To go from: Buddhism derives from Hinduism which has a cast system straight to "there is still an ingrained belief [among Buddhists/Hindus?] that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more" is bizarre reasoning. I can only assume that you've had some bad Sambuca (been there) and will wake up tomorrow and chuckle at your own post, the way I often do at mine.

T

Nope, I'm sober now as I was when I posted originally. Starting at the top we have the special surnames followed by the army generals then the new money Chinese Thais then the educated middle class then the rest. Thailand is a rigidly hierarchical system which differs from the Hindu caste system only in that money will let you move up the ladder - and here is the rub, education is pitiful for most, wages are low and corruption maintains the status quo. This means realistically a sudden windfall is about the only way to escape from the bottom rungs of the ladder, Thais know this only so well which is why imho they are so preoccupied with magical thinking, lotteries and rich benefactors witting or unwitting.

[Richard4849]

Well, I have to disagree. The lottery / magical etc. windfall hopes come not from a lack of opportunity but from a lack of ambition. Laziness, to be more exact.

There are fewer barriers here to getting rich than anywhere I can think of. If you can afford a folding card table and a patch of sidewalk, you're in business. My regular somtam kai yang lady has bought a house and car on her savings, and sent her kids to university. All she needed was ambition and some elbow grease.

It is not difficult, unless you are a lazy sack of sh&t.

[Thakkar]

You are absolutely correct. Many here fail to see that this kind of action by Thais are not directed towards farangs, but towards anyone who has money.

Mariage in Thailand is just a matter of money, love doesn't count here. Getting married for Thais is like securing assets. Most of Thai women (because they won't be the ones bringing the money at home) make sure they will have enough property for themselves if they were to divorce after their "expiry date". They do this with farangs, but they also do this to thai men too. There's no discrimination here.

I've seen many of these "arrangements" in purely thai mariages... and sometimes with the roles reversed (the husband securing some assets in case of separation)... but that's much more rare.

You can, however, find Thai women who don't play in this scheme. I know some. But it's pretty rare, as thai men do not give a great example of trustworthiness, the girls assume by default that they are going to be cheated on, one day or another.

I would tend to agree, Buddhist culture was born out of Hindu culture and though the caste system is less explicit for Buddhism I think there is still an ingrained belief that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more. Farrang often fit the having more criteria and the fact the law also favours Thais is just the cherry on the cake.

I've read some pretty inane stuff here on TV, some of it posted by yours truly (I love reading my own posts once I get sober). But this is award-winning inanity, so, kudos.

To go from: Buddhism derives from Hinduism which has a cast system straight to "there is still an ingrained belief [among Buddhists/Hindus?] that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more" is bizarre reasoning. I can only assume that you've had some bad Sambuca (been there) and will wake up tomorrow and chuckle at your own post, the way I often do at mine.

T

Nope, I'm sober now as I was when I posted originally. Starting at the top we have the special surnames followed by the army generals then the new money Chinese Thais then the educated middle class then the rest. Thailand is a rigidly hierarchical system which differs from the Hindu caste system only in that money will let you move up the ladder - and here is the rub, education is pitiful for most, wages are low and corruption maintains the status quo. This means realistically a sudden windfall is about the only way to escape from the bottom rungs of the ladder, Thais know this only so well which is why imho they are so preoccupied with magical thinking, lotteries and rich benefactors witting or unwitting.

What you're saying actually makes a lot of sense. But the leap you make from all the sensible stuff to "an ingrained belief that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more" remains an inexplicable leap. Anywhere in the world, for perpetrators who are so inclined (not necessarily having to do with religion, culture or societal structure), whether they are rich or poor, they will prey on the most convenient targets (who themselves can be rich or poor); it's simply a matter of opportunity.

Once you strip away the cultural accouterments, greed—and the willingness to fulfill it unscrupulously— is just greed in any society and, for the most part, I don't think any one culture is more inclined towards it than any other.

T

BTW, I should apologize for my flippancy yesterday and am pleasantly humbled by your measured response.

:jap:

T

Edited August 24, 2011 by Thakkar

[xavierr]

The wife was the weak link in the chain. There is something mysterious here. His wife was not devoted to him and he didn't see red flags before? I find it so strange that men past their forties, who would not give a penny to a friend in need, sign away large chunks of wealth to a younger woman whose culture they understand only imperfectly.

Many foreigners come here to Thailand and try to recreate an artificial dreamland, regularly meeting other foreigners in air-conditioned bars that are literally pieces of their own country transported here. They lose touch with the reality, with the country surrounding them, to which their wife belongs. I wonder how close Farmer Joe was to his wife, if he was ever close.

Close enough to father three children.

*rim shot*

T

So when someone says "close friend" or "close relative" is that what you understand? Fathering children?

In business one needs a certain amount of essential trust in the partner which is not possible when there is no communication and no full knowledge about the background.

A man could father kids without even speaking or understanding a woman.

What is playing dumb supposed to achieve?

[arthurwait]

You are absolutely correct. Many here fail to see that this kind of action by Thais are not directed towards farangs, but towards anyone who has money.

Mariage in Thailand is just a matter of money, love doesn't count here. Getting married for Thais is like securing assets. Most of Thai women (because they won't be the ones bringing the money at home) make sure they will have enough property for themselves if they were to divorce after their "expiry date". They do this with farangs, but they also do this to thai men too. There's no discrimination here.

I've seen many of these "arrangements" in purely thai mariages... and sometimes with the roles reversed (the husband securing some assets in case of separation)... but that's much more rare.

You can, however, find Thai women who don't play in this scheme. I know some. But it's pretty rare, as thai men do not give a great example of trustworthiness, the girls assume by default that they are going to be cheated on, one day or another.

I would tend to agree, Buddhist culture was born out of Hindu culture and though the caste system is less explicit for Buddhism I think there is still an ingrained belief that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more. Farrang often fit the having more criteria and the fact the law also favours Thais is just the cherry on the cake.

I've read some pretty inane stuff here on TV, some of it posted by yours truly (I love reading my own posts once I get sober). But this is award-winning inanity, so, kudos.

To go from: Buddhism derives from Hinduism which has a cast system straight to "there is still an ingrained belief [among Buddhists/Hindus?] that the best way to make money is to take it from someone who has more" is bizarre reasoning. I can only assume that you've had some bad Sambuca (been there) and will wake up tomorrow and chuckle at your own post, the way I often do at mine.

T

Nope, I'm sober now as I was when I posted originally. Starting at the top we have the special surnames followed by the army generals then the new money Chinese Thais then the educated middle class then the rest. Thailand is a rigidly hierarchical system which differs from the Hindu caste system only in that money will let you move up the ladder - and here is the rub, education is pitiful for most, wages are low and corruption maintains the status quo. This means realistically a sudden windfall is about the only way to escape from the bottom rungs of the ladder, Thais know this only so well which is why imho they are so preoccupied with magical thinking, lotteries and rich benefactors witting or unwitting.

Except so many of the now rich Thai Chinese who came without a pot to piss in (parents , grandparents). The difference being they worked bloody hard, reinvested everything they earnt in business or land and not just in Changs profits. So many people on here describe them as Hi-so. It's funny how Chinese economic immgrants into Thailand who were Chinese peasants for lack of a better word can move up this caste system you believe in to become Thai Hi-so.

People all over the world play their lotteries and there are gold diggers everywhere.

[Thakkar]

The wife was the weak link in the chain. There is something mysterious here. His wife was not devoted to him and he didn't see red flags before? I find it so strange that men past their forties, who would not give a penny to a friend in need, sign away large chunks of wealth to a younger woman whose culture they understand only imperfectly.

Many foreigners come here to Thailand and try to recreate an artificial dreamland, regularly meeting other foreigners in air-conditioned bars that are literally pieces of their own country transported here. They lose touch with the reality, with the country surrounding them, to which their wife belongs. I wonder how close Farmer Joe was to his wife, if he was ever close.

Close enough to father three children.

*rim shot*

T

So when someone says "close friend" or "close relative" is that what you understand? Fathering children?

In business one needs a certain amount of essential trust in the partner which is not possible when there is no communication and no full knowledge about the background.

A man could father kids without even speaking or understanding a woman.

What is playing dumb supposed to achieve?

Actually, as a former sperm donor (don't ask), I may have fathered children without ever speaking to, understanding or even seeing a woman (apart from the pictures they gave me to look at).

T