Farang Women/thai Men

[frond]

I'm perplexed by the amount of abuse foreign women have to deal with coming from their Thai partner. I know it's not the same for every relationship of course, but from reading these posts I'm frankly shocked. Not shocked that it happens--I've seen domestic violence spilling into the streets, as well as my mother-in-law's fights with her husband--so I know that some Thai men can be quite violent. I'm shocked that foreign women put up with it for so long. I don't want to badmouth Thai men, but most that I've met--from the factory worker to the rich Chinese/Thai--all have the propensity to be violent, cheat, and abuse to a high degree. And some of them seem to be lacking in the logic department as well.

I've also noticed that many foreign women meet Thai men in bars, Khao San, and especially Ko Samui. They also seem to support their Thai boyfriends monetarily and have to put up with cheating and extremely baby-ish behavior, not to mention possible physical abuse.

So many Thai men seem to be like bombs waiting to go off, especially when they're 'caught in the act,' or push things too far and it's pointed out to them. Alcohol contributes to this as well, and men here seem to like their drink.

[Boo]

Remove the word thai from your post & there you have it. There are good & bad everywhere & I know plenty of farang women in happy & healthy relationships with thai men, but people tend not to post on how great their relationship is as they don't need advice, help etc as everything is going great.

But you see a few posts about bad relationships & you presume that all farang women are putting up with this?

Just as you only see the posts about thai women being jealous, childish & money grabbing really, so the same question could be asked of the farang men who put up with scheming thai women as there are so many posts about it, they must all be like it.

Oh & for someone who doesn't want to bad mouth thai men, you don't seem to be doing too bad so far

[frond]

I use the word "some" throughout my post, not "all."

you presume that all farang women are putting up with this?

Not a presumption that "all" farang women put up with this.

I agree, people are more likely to post something negative than positive, unfortunately. I'm just commenting on the threads I've read in this section, not making any wide sweeping generalizations (I challenge you to find one in my post) about Thai men.

Sorry to have offended. Carry on.

[sbk]

I use the word "some" throughout my post, not "all." 

you presume that all farang women are putting up with this?

Not a presumption that "all" farang women put up with this.

I agree, people are more likely to post something negative than positive, unfortunately. I'm just commenting on the threads I've read in this section, not making any wide sweeping generalizations (I challenge you to find one in my post) about Thai men.

Sorry to have offended. Carry on.

I don't want to badmouth Thai men, but most that I've met--from the factory worker to the rich Chinese/Thai--all have the propensity to be violent, cheat, and abuse to a high degree. And some of them seem to be lacking in the logic department as well.

Seems like a pretty sweeping generalization to me

Actually, frond you've only read recent threads. Go back a ways and you will find me or Boo or Naomisri bragging on our terrific husbands. I know lots of terrific Thai men but they are, of course, married, working and busy. They get no praise because they need none. Seems that alot of farang men are with Thai women who have left unsuccessful relationships with a Thai man and therefor assume that all Thai men are bad. In every relationship it takes two to tango and rarely is one person the sole culprit/bad guy.

[frond]

I

don't want to badmouth Thai men, but most that I've met

"most that I've met" is not

a pretty sweeping generalization

. And notice I use the word "met"--in other words...I know them! I'm not here to bash Thai men, so don't get the wrong idea. I have NO REASON TO.

Seems that alot of farang men are with Thai women who have left unsuccessful relationships with a Thai man and therefor assume that all Thai men are bad.

I hope you're not referring to me--such is not the case.

In every relationship it takes two to tango and rarely is one person the sole culprit/bad guy.

Agree 100%.

Just commenting on the posts I've read here written by farang women who get beaten up by their Thai boyfriends, and adding in what I've observed personally. If anything I feel very sympathetic to them and again I'm not here to bash anyone. Seems like there's enough going on already.

[sbk]

True, there have been a couple, perhaps because one came out another felt safe to do so?

Perhaps I should start a thread on "Why my Thai husband is the finest man I know" ? Might that reverse the trend?

Wonder what trolls that would bring out (not calling you a troll, but you know what I mean about some who would come crawling out from under their rocks).

[frond]

I came crawling out from under the rocks, did I?

[sbk]

I came crawling out from under the rocks, did I?

Like I said, wasn't referring to you. Sorry if you misunderstood my reference. Read back a few more threads and all will become clear

[Boo]

We had a thread not too long ago about what we liked about thai men, a lot of the farang men on here got defensive, insulting & abusive, just cause we were posting about what we like about our thai men.

It seems that we can't win either way.

[baht&sold]

We had a thread not too long ago about what we liked about thai men,  a lot of the farang men on here got defensive, insulting & abusive, just cause we were posting about what we like about our thai men.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Naaa, just some, only some.

To the OP, just my take on it but ppl are more likely to post something on relationships when the chips are down or a little advice is needed or in rare cases, something more extreme has happened.

That can't be taken as representative of their entire relationship, nor of the whole at large. I too absolutely cringe when I hear of a woman getting beaten up tho... Where I come from, that's unforgivable, period. But that's me, each to their own.

As far as 'some Thai guys are bad', basically, like Thai girls (or guys n girls anywhere) the best one's are taken and the majority don't post from the rooftops "I have a GREAT realtionship!"...

Then again, having never been married, i'm about the last person to be commenting on the subject... having said that, I mentally shout from my rooftops everyday. I'm far from the best, just happy and lucky to have a super special lady in my life.

Edited November 1, 2005 by baht&sold

[Boo]

ok, some

[cdnvic]

I don't want to badmouth Thai men, but most that I've met--from the factory worker to the rich Chinese/Thai--all have the propensity to be violent, cheat, and abuse to a high degree. And some of them seem to be lacking in the logic department as well.

My factory manager inlaws would probably want to straighten you out for your slandering generalisation. Fortunately they're both too passive to do that. They would find little or no logic in wasting their time on an amateur psychologist who couldn't manage to do any research before making wildly innaccurate pronouncements based on a few web postings.

cv

[sbk]

Maybe I should shout from the rooftops baht&sold??

It is really hard for many men to understand that a good relationship can occur between a Thai man and a farang woman since so many of them have preconceived notions about what Thai men are really like based on their gf/wives stories.

My husband and I have been married 16 years and although he is far from perfect (he is a man, after all ) he is a good husband, an honest, decent, kind man that I wouldn't trade for anyone. Does it matter that he's Thai and not a farang (as some men would have you think it matters)? Of course not, what matters is that he is a moral man who is gentle, caring and loving.

I just feel sorry for people who say "thai women are better than farang" or "farang men are better than thai" because it just shows how pathetic their lives are that they have to find fault with someone else to make themselves feel superior.

[girlx]

hmmm. personally i agree with you OP. aside from the women on here who claim to have great relationships with their thai men, i have never met a single farang female/ thai male couple that was successful. in absolutely every single case (out of dozens) the girl gets screwed in the end. this is with thai men from every social class. not to mention the many many thai women who have complained to me about the same thing. of course this might just be my experience, but then again, people like SBK and Boo could be exceptions as well. thai culture is very very misogynistic. i have chosen to opt out of it, finally, learned my lesson well (though i still love thai people and even my thai man). good luck to those who do not.

[sbk]

I've found that the successful relationships (of which I know a few) have been between people of equal success and/or education, social status. Very few men (farang or Thai) deal well with being dependent on a woman (some can, most can't). And probably most of the girls you have met have gone out with beach boys who have serial girlfriends. Frankly, the "flavors of the month" don't count in my book as real relationships.

Perhaps I should add that most of the girls I see running around on Koh Phangan are in a relationship with someone who is not serious about them. I see many many girls who come and go. I do also know quite a few women who are in long-term relationships/married to Thai men. All of the men are local. All of them men have some form of success not based on their gf/wives money. Some good some bad, like any normal guy. But any girl who gets into a relationship with a guy she meets working in a bar is not going to have much chance of success in a relationship.

Sorry if this comes out sounding hard girlx but I have been here many many years longer than you and have a far greater experience outside of the Hadrin/tourist life than you do. I know lots of great Thai men. They are all taken. The ones who go cruising for girls are the ones who are out to use girls as well.

[Boo]

Can you imagine if this topic was, why do so many farang men put up with thai women as every story I have heard says they are liars, money grabbers & whores?

Unbeleivable,... personally I know lots of thai man/farang women relationships that are happy & who have been together for several years. I have a large amount of male thai friends who all work hard & are sweet & in 7 years met very few people that I didn't like.

I dont' think I am an exception but I don't put up with crap & know when my relationship is having problems or when something needs to change, we then work to make it right. It's hardly rocket science.

[kat]

There are lots of great Thai men, because I've met some of them. Problem is, most of us cannot speak with 100% confidence on other people's relationships because we are not privy to every single detail. I can honestly say that I've met a few women who from my perspective on the outside looking in seem to enjoy a very nice relationship with Thai men. Generally speaking, these men seem to be a bit different than many other Thai men in that they have been exposed to her culture through their language skills and experience. Perhaps this lays the groundwork in better understanding two very diametrically opposed cultures. For the record, I have also seen more Thai/farang relationships that seem to be working, but don't really depict the type of intimacy I would expect from a marriage partner.

And of course, we have a plethora of research from multiple sources.

There is no denying the entrenched male-dominating qualities of Thai society and male privelige, which cut across the entire culture, and across every single status position. Thai women still have to live and deal with issues such as mia nois, knowing her "place" socially, and prostitution, and they are by far not an anomaly.

There is also the additional *issue that there a far greater number of heterosexual men in some parts of Asia who are MSM (men who have sex with men).

*Just to clarify - the issue for me is not a gay identity, but dating or marrying a man who slept with men without open acknowledgement of this other preference.

[girlx]

Sorry if this comes out sounding hard girlx but I have been here many many years longer than you and have a far greater experience outside of the Hadrin/tourist life than you do.

SBK you have made a lot of assumptions about me and the people i know in your post. i have been visiting thailand for months at a time over 8 years, and have lived here for a total of 3 years... only the last 3 months (and 6 months previously) have i been on koh phangan, and never haad rin (except to buy books!)... it's not 16 years of experience like you, but i am no newbie either. i have been all over thailand a couple of times over. i have met men who are on the same level as i am (economically), and many more who were not. i know many many female farang/ thai male couples who are married for some time, even with children.

i agree that economic inequality is a big factor, as is the "beach boy" culture, that contributes to the downfall of a relationship here (the former even including my own), but that is not what i am talking about.... i am talking about the "thai" view of women in general. "male privelege", kat calls it. it's worse than 50's america- they expect women to shut up, give it up to them whenever they want it and look away when they feel like getting it from someone else, to the extent that they can feed and house another whole family without any flack- in fact in thai communities they actually have more status the more women they have.... they either seem to objectify women to an inane degree (making the purchase of their bodies a commonplace thing in this country), or they feel a woman's place is in the home and catering to their needs, & either way they can be violent or cruel or petty when those needs are not met. i have a couple of thai friends whose fathers have mia nois, and their mothers have been beaten, broken by these men. i have met both thai and foreign girls who were abandoned as soon as the baby came. i have heard way more bad stories than good here.

i know this has not been your experience. i would love to meet more women with your experience and anecdotes. & i have met several nice thai men as well, just not with foreign females. there is a lovely thai family next door to me who sing and coo to and tickle each other all day long. i know they have it in them and you are lucky to find one who has it in them for you! and maybe i will too and so will the other poor saps who write on this board out of frustration. but until i see one mixed couple that really "works", i am inclined to believe that they don't exist! call me stubborn, accuse me of generalizing, but i have never seen proof and i find it hard to believe that such independent, strong women as are in the west can adapt to what is expected of them here.... i feel sorry for the many women i see who grasp hopefully at the men they are with (in denial) only to have them slip out the back door when they are busy with the baby, or who get the fist when he's had too much to drink. i think some women here need to wake up and get their lives back.

i do concede to you though that maybe a little more experience would change my mind, and i welcome that.

[kat]

Hey X:

Thanks for your unwavering honesty. I appreciate your insistence to call it as you see it, even when it requires you to implicate your own relationships.

* ah, but I see that you are from NYC. Now I understand

Edited November 2, 2005 by kat

[sbk]

Well, you haven't really said much outside of your experiences here so I assumed (wrongly,sorry) that all your experiences were from here.

Just one thing I learned from my dad. He has always said, "you can never tell what is going on in another man's head or another man's bed". Just because you perceive something does not make it the true. There are many different kinds of relationships and just because it is not the same as what you want does not make them any less valid.

I have been married 16 years, here 17. I know of lots of thai man/farang woman relationships that have come and gone (not counting beach boys). But you could say the same if you were in the US as well. The reason you don't see so many long term ones is because, in the end, they usually have kids and move back to the wife's home country for education. None of the women I knew when I first came are still here, they have all moved home. Some with their husbands, some without, some with the husbands coming out part of the year. But again, looking at the divorce rate in the west, what is so unusual about that anymore?

[girlx]

The reason you don't see so many long term ones is because, in the end, they usually have kids and move back to the wife's home country for education

hmmm maybe that's a good point as well. i know a few couples who have left thailand (and i never heard from them again so i don't know if they worked out or not), but the ones i am referring to are here and struggling to make it work here. maybe once you take the man out of this misogynistic mindset and broaden their perspective a bit, chances of success are higher.

[sbk]

I think it does. It helps if the spouse (be it male or female) can see how their partner grew up. My husband understood me a whole lot better once he'd been to the US and seen life there. He also understood my sacrifice alot better as well.

I'm not saying that men aren't coddled and spoiled here and then end up with a sense of privilege. Obviously (that happens everywhere frankly) I am just saying don't throw the barrel out for a few bad apples. There are really great guys out there, it just takes some searching.

But then, I'd have to say, that would happen at home too. My sister is single and she has finally found a great guy that she is compatible with. I hope it lasts.

[cathyy]

But any girl who gets into a relationship with a guy she meets working in a bar is not going to have much chance of success in a relationship. 

So true. And if you leave out the word 'working' it's a pretty accurate statement for both men and women worldwide. People who are into a party lifestyle aren't good risks for a long-term relationship. Don't go to bars to meet people; go to bars occasionally to have fun with your friends. Meet people at work. Meet people at their job. Meet friends of friends. Meet people at school. Meet people at the religious center of your choice.

[thaibebop]

Sorry if this comes out sounding hard girlx but I have been here many many years longer than you and have a far greater experience outside of the Hadrin/tourist life than you do.

SBK you have made a lot of assumptions about me and the people i know in your post. i have been visiting thailand for months at a time over 8 years, and have lived here for a total of 3 years... only the last 3 months (and 6 months previously) have i been on koh phangan, and never haad rin (except to buy books!)... it's not 16 years of experience like you, but i am no newbie either. i have been all over thailand a couple of times over. i have met men who are on the same level as i am (economically), and many more who were not. i know many many female farang/ thai male couples who are married for some time, even with children.

i agree that economic inequality is a big factor, as is the "beach boy" culture, that contributes to the downfall of a relationship here (the former even including my own), but that is not what i am talking about.... i am talking about the "thai" view of women in general. "male privelege", kat calls it. it's worse than 50's america- they expect women to shut up, give it up to them whenever they want it and look away when they feel like getting it from someone else, to the extent that they can feed and house another whole family without any flack- in fact in thai communities they actually have more status the more women they have.... they either seem to objectify women to an inane degree (making the purchase of their bodies a commonplace thing in this country), or they feel a woman's place is in the home and catering to their needs, & either way they can be violent or cruel or petty when those needs are not met. i have a couple of thai friends whose fathers have mia nois, and their mothers have been beaten, broken by these men. i have met both thai and foreign girls who were abandoned as soon as the baby came. i have heard way more bad stories than good here.

i know this has not been your experience. i would love to meet more women with your experience and anecdotes. & i have met several nice thai men as well, just not with foreign females. there is a lovely thai family next door to me who sing and coo to and tickle each other all day long. i know they have it in them and you are lucky to find one who has it in them for you! and maybe i will too and so will the other poor saps who write on this board out of frustration. but until i see one mixed couple that really "works", i am inclined to believe that they don't exist! call me stubborn, accuse me of generalizing, but i have never seen proof and i find it hard to believe that such independent, strong women as are in the west can adapt to what is expected of them here.... i feel sorry for the many women i see who grasp hopefully at the men they are with (in denial) only to have them slip out the back door when they are busy with the baby, or who get the fist when he's had too much to drink. i think some women here need to wake up and get their lives back.

i do concede to you though that maybe a little more experience would change my mind, and i welcome that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many cultures in Thailand. I wonder if you speak of a certain one. I always wonder this as it seems to slip people's minds that there is more than one kind of Thai.

My wife's Thai culture places her in a group that does not think this way and values women. They are given just as many opportunities as the guys maybe even more in some cases. Their input in money matters is valued and they are expected to futher their education pasted high school. Hitting, bad mouthing, or cheating is looked down on.

[Boo]

My wife's Thai culture places her in a group that does not think this way and values women. They are given just as many opportunities as the guys maybe even more in some cases. Their input in money matters is valued and they are expected to futher their education pasted high school. Hitting, bad mouthing, or cheating is looked down on.

Well said thaibebop

[Beachbunny]

I have known my thai husband for almost 30 years and we will be married 27 years this coming March. Granted I met and married him in the states and we lived there until about 3 years ago and he is pretty westernized; but his brothers, who have always lived here, are just like him as far as family is concerned and are in monogomous relationships. I will have to add that career wise and/or educational wise, all are well matched.

Girls get good educations just the same as the boys. In fact the girls are the apple of their Dads eyes.

I agree with SBK's dad, you don't know what goes on in someone else's home. Thai men, especially the older ones, do not show affection in public places. That's private and kept for home. Affection is not even shown in front of friends unless those friends are long standing and very close friends.

There are many subtle ways a thai shows affection that a westerner wouldn't even notice. Such as serving their wife/husband while dining out with a choice bit of food. Subtle ways that I am still learning after almost 30 years.

Most of our friends are men my husband went to school with and their wives. Of all his friends I can only think of one that has more than one wife and I know all his wives and he is not a wife beater. My husband can not understand why he is such a womanizer..

I can say for my husband he was raised in a family that had a faithful & honest father, so I'm sure he and his brothers learned faithfulness from him.

Just my experience.

Beachbunny

[seonai]

Gosh this thread touched base with me very deeply. Ultimately we are all humans, as some of you guys know out there I had to call for help not that long ago. But it was not a Thai/Farang thing, it was an anger management thing and since then.... we have both learned to manage things in a more intelligent manor. As for generalisations about Thai men... no truck. There are many different men out there. I am very happy now with my Thai husband and we learn more every day. I have had to make concessions about the way/method that I approach subjects but he also has had to change a lot. Not so bad.

Seonai

[naomisri]

There are many subtle ways a thai shows affection that a westerner wouldn't even notice.  Such as serving their wife/husband while dining out with a choice bit of food. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is so incredibly true. My husband is quite demonstrative anyway, but the things that touch my heart the most are the small things he does like put toothpaste on my toothbrush so it's there when I go to shower or bring me kanom or give me the meat from the fish jaw (the choicest part!) that show me how deeply I am embedded in his priorities and life.

I used to complain to a male friend whenever I had boyfriend issues in the past. He used to say to me "That's just not acceptable behaviour" then I would give him all the excuses and tell him about all the promises that had been made to change behaviour etc. and he used to simply say "Actions speak louder than words". We seem to be so obsessed in the West with the idea of talking all night and baring the depths of our souls and those three little words can change everything. BUT! If your husband/boyfriend is all mouth and no action then you're destined for some heartache however silver togued he is.

I don't have to complain "But I know he loves me" to excuse my husbands behaviour, because he shows me he loves me every day by treating me with respect.

Please forgive the emotional rant! I'm 6 months pregnant, but I surely know that my relationship with MY Thai man is happy and healthy.

[sbk]

There are many subtle ways a thai shows affection that a westerner wouldn't even notice.  Such as serving their wife/husband while dining out with a choice bit of food. 

This is so incredibly true. My husband is quite demonstrative anyway, but the things that touch my heart the most are the small things he does like put toothpaste on my toothbrush so it's there when I go to shower or bring me kanom or give me the meat from the fish jaw (the choicest part!) that show me how deeply I am embedded in his priorities and life.

this is so true. My husband & I have been married 16 years and there certainly are no (and never have been) PDA's (public displays of affection) but anyone who watches us will certainly see that we are a couple. The food sharing thing seems to be a really big one, I've noticed. Food as a means of showing affection, it's a wonder I'm not fat!

[cdnvic]

I just thought she wasn't hungry. Was I supposed to give her food too?

.....another trip to the florist coming up

cv