Learning Thai

[sierra01]

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes. 500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what? I don't know if I have to pay 10 lessons or something upfront, I'll find out the lowdown on Thursday. If i don't get a trial lesson then I won't pay too much upfront, I don't want to be tied if she's no good.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think the cost sounds fine- the ultimate test is of course if you are pleased and feel she is a good teacher. Good lessons have to be prepared, so 250 baht per hour of lesson time means more actual work.

[weeraorn]

OK you need very low price Thai study? I am a teacher too.I think 250 is very cheap.But you have to find out what is she doing?How do you know her?

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?  I don't know if I have to pay 10 lessons or something upfront, I'll find out the lowdown on Thursday.  If i don't get a trial lesson then I won't pay too much upfront, I don't want to be tied if she's no good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[taxexile]

hmmmmm , seems to be a lot of competition for students out there , prices should if anything should be getting lower.

[uhuh]

OK you need very low price Thai study? I am a teacher too.I think 250 is very cheap.But you have to find out what is she doing?How do you know her?

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?  I don't know if I have to pay 10 lessons or something upfront, I'll find out the lowdown on Thursday.  If i don't get a trial lesson then I won't pay too much upfront, I don't want to be tied if she's no good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

250 is about what farangs get to teach English.

I find it quite something to ask for this amount. In most countries the price to teach the local language would be considerably (eg 3 times) less than the price to teach a foreign language. A Thai teacher's salary does not even come close to 250 per hour.

But then, farangs are known to pay any price...

[sierra01]

I was trying to join the local Tsutaya branch and struggling to make the girl understand what I wanted, this lady approached and explained to the girl for me. Then she asked if I wanted to learn Thai, that's how I 'know' her. She said she taught Thai and English (it always worries me when a Thai teaches English), basically it's 500bt for 2 hours 121, I can have class to but I don't know how much that would cost. I'm meeting her tomorrow so I'll know more then.

[meadish_sweetball]

OK you need very low price Thai study? I am a teacher too.I think 250 is very cheap.But you have to find out what is she doing?How do you know her?

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?  I don't know if I have to pay 10 lessons or something upfront, I'll find out the lowdown on Thursday.  If i don't get a trial lesson then I won't pay too much upfront, I don't want to be tied if she's no good.

250 is about what farangs get to teach English.

I find it quite something to ask for this amount. In most countries the price to teach the local language would be considerably (eg 3 times) less than the price to teach a foreign language. A Thai teacher's salary does not even come close to 250 per hour.

But then, farangs are known to pay any price...

From what I saw when I was still in the scene 5 years ago, 200-250 baht per hour is pretty much rock bottom for teaching English by farangs who generally dont read and write Thai and have few teaching qualifications.

Farangs with qualifications can charge up to 1000 per hour given the right qualifications, appearance and contacts. I have a few friends who have done that successfully. Admittedly, this was in Bangkok though.

You are correct in that it's possible to find Thais willing to teach you for less 250 per hour, and of course you may be lucky and find somebody who is good at it - but like I said above, the only interesting thing is whether you feel this is a good, qualified and dedicated teacher or not, a person that is worth the money. Personally I dont think 250 baht per hour is too much if the teaching is good.

[sierra01]

Ok people, thanks. I won't pay too much upfront, 5x2 hours=2500bt if I can and see how it goes. What should I expect from her; prepared papers, loan of book/s, things like that, should I ask about her qualifications? This is my first foray into seriously learning Thai so all info on the subject is very welcome

[yoot]

Ok people, thanks.  I won't pay too much upfront, 5x2 hours=2500bt if I can and see how it goes.  What should I expect from her; prepared papers, loan of book/s, things like that, should I ask about her qualifications?  This is my first foray into seriously learning Thai so all info on the subject is very welcome

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an informal class, right? Another question, where do you study with her-- your place, her place or any place ? She should be the one who prepares lessons and books for you if it needs. I don't think you should pay anything upfront. Normally in this case you should pay after she finish teaching you each time.

[sierra01]

I haven't actually had a lesson yet, I'm meeting her tomorrow in Carrefour, if that's to be the classroom then I'll look for another teacher!

[Usasuk]

I haven't actually had a lesson yet, I'm meeting her tomorrow in Carrefour, if that's to be the classroom then I'll look for another teacher!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi

My name Usa (33 years old with Bachelor degree in Business Admin)

I am local Thai , I may teach Thai for you through msn.

It is too cheap since you don't need to travel.

We can chat 1-2 hr/day as you want.

You pay less than to take a class outside.

Just think about it

If you interested you can chat with me at [email protected]

Usa

[khonnaarak]

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?  I don't know if I have to pay 10 lessons or something upfront, I'll find out the lowdown on Thursday.  If i don't get a trial lesson then I won't pay too much upfront, I don't want to be tied if she's no good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's try P&A Language center @ Silom if you ok on that area but very convenience though, They are very close to Saladeang BTS. and you can even have a trial lesson.

http://mrroomfinder.com/PA/PA_Language_Sshool.php

Cheers,

[taxexile]

and you can even have a trial lesson

do you know if pa language school give free trial lessons now for all new students ?

[khonnaarak]

and you can even have a trial lesson

do you know if pa language school give free trial lessons now for all new students ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, they do and they also have 10 % discount. Check it out !

[taxexile]

i used to study there , and can recommend it.

(i never got a free lesson or 10% discount though , )

[Mr_Dave]

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?

Sierra01-

For a free-lance, casual, teacher - that seems about right. I've been studying Thai for one year now. I pay 400 baht for each lesson of 1.5 hours (90 minutes). My teacher is not a professional teacher - he is on staff at a hotel in Bangkok where I've stayed. He comes to my room to teach me after his regular job is finished. A professional teacher, associated with a language school, will want more. Don't pay a deposit up front - I don't. Just pay each lesson.

I will make this strong suggestion: If you are a man, then learn from a man. Thais will never admit this, but men and women use different intonations, different phrasing and different word choice. Since Thai is a tonal language, the sound is highly important. I don't want to speak Thai like a woman - and I hear many farangs who do. After a few months of lessons you'll be able to hear the difference, too.

What are you going to use for your curriculum? To just dive in the deep end and splash around won't teach you much. I bought many books, tapes and CDs. Some helpful, most just "hopeful", but with no real learning effect. After trying out many different lessons, I found the most effective to be "Learn to Read with Manee" at http://www.learningthai.com/books/manee/index.html . This is a carefully planned, basic, training program that combines reading, speaking and listening. Each lesson introduces a few new letters, sounds and words. The sound files are available on the Internet. The progression is smooth and logical. When I've deviated from this lesson plan, I've become lost in confusion. When I returned to the "Manee" lessons, then my language learning made steady progress.

I've recently completed all 22 lessons in "Learn to Read with Manee". I can read, write, speak and understand at first grade level (pratom-1). It's not much, but it is a solid foundation on which to build. I recommend it. The "Learn to Read with Manee" lessons are free on the Internet.

As you progress with your Thai language learning, I hope you'll post a report on your experiences and your opinions.

Edited November 2, 2005 by Mr_Dave

[Auntie Dah]

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?

I will make this strong suggestion: If you are a man, then learn from a man. Thais will never admit this, but men and women use different intonations, different phrasing and different word choice. Since Thai is a tonal language, the sound is highly important. I don't want to speak Thai like a woman - and I hear many farangs who do. After a few months of lessons you'll be able to hear the difference, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is interesting theory about thai men and women speaking differently, but they not like to admitt this. Because of what reason they don't want to admit this? Also can you give one or two example of difference? Maybe you mean thai women talk in higher voice than thai men?

[sierra01]

I met the lady as agreed yesterday, in carrefour. She is freelance and teaches wherever it's convenient for you. We had a sort of informal lesson and chat In McDonalds for an hour, no charge to me, in future it will be at my house. We discussed my needs re the language (general Thai, nothing specialised). I want to learn the basics of speaking first then go into it more and also start learning to read and write Thai. It's pay as you go so I'll give it a few weeks to see if her style suits me, I can't really tell after 1 lesson! I've decided on 2x2hours per week, it'll give me time to absorb things between lessons.

[meadish_sweetball]

Today I was in Tsutaya, struggling to make myself understood when a Thai woman asked me if I wanted Thai lessons, I've been thinking about it anyway so I said yes.  500bt for 2 hours 121, ok or what?

I will make this strong suggestion: If you are a man, then learn from a man. Thais will never admit this, but men and women use different intonations, different phrasing and different word choice. Since Thai is a tonal language, the sound is highly important. I don't want to speak Thai like a woman - and I hear many farangs who do. After a few months of lessons you'll be able to hear the difference, too.

This is interesting theory about thai men and women speaking differently, but they not like to admitt this. Because of what reason they don't want to admit this? Also can you give one or two example of difference? Maybe you mean thai women talk in higher voice than thai men?

There are a number of general differences between men and women in casual speech. This is not only limited to Thai, similar differences can be observed in other languages as well.

One is of course that generally speaking, women's voices are often higher pitched than the voices of men, due to a smaller and differently shaped speech apparatus.

This difference in pitch can be a bit confusing for a man learning a tonal language (just as having a male teacher might confuse a woman). When you first learn tones, you do not know what to focus on - *where* is the actual difference between the different tones, and where is the difference between a system based on intonation, and a system based on phonemic tones?

It is easy to think that the tones work like singing - in other words, if you are trying to copy the speech of a woman, you will strive to reach a pitch that is just as high as hers. This may produce interesting and/or comical results.

The truth about how the tone system works is easy to find in most books for beginners - namely that the phonemic tones will/shall lie within the comfortable voice range of each individual. This means that it is NOT like singing.

Once you have understood that and can pronounce and distinguish the difference between the five tones properly, that will not be an issue.

Other things are the use of individual speech particles - in Thai, notably, women use the particles 'khâ' and 'jâ' more frequently than men, creating a 'sweeter' effect in their speech - men more commonly use 'khráp/kháp', 'há' or no particle (this is a complex subject because once you learn more you will see that some men DO use 'khâ' and 'jâ' on occasion (in my experience never when speaking to another man though, only when speaking to someone intimate such as GF, wife, daughter - and even then not all the time.).

Another phenomenon which is not so common in male speech is what Smythe (Thai - an essential grammar) refers to as 'Repetition of adjective with tonal change'. This means the first instance of the word is pronounced with an exaggerated high tone irrespective of the original tone of the word.

The tone is especially high-pitched and especially notable in words that take the high tone in normal cases, as it pushes up the tone level to falsetto (somebody here aptly described it as 'ultra-sonic' in an earlier thread here in the forum ).

อร๊อย อร่อย aro-oi aroi! - Sooooo tasty!

แพ๊ง แพง phae-aeng phaeng - Soooo expensive!

Apart from these examples, there are a few others as well.

Note that the surprise effect for a Thai may be extra strong when it is a studdly tough foreigner who exhibits these speech characteristics. My own theory is that this is partially due to Thai dubbing of Western movies, where pretty much all Western male actors have exaggeratedly low-pitched, macho voices.

For a Thai with little experience of Westerners speaking Thai who has this dubbing as their reference, hearing a 120 kilo biker on a Harley exclaiming to his girlfriend

'tee rak jaaa, aow naam noi na jaaaa, saeng daet mun raaaawwwwn maak maak' (honey, please bring (me) some water, it's so frightfully hot in the sun)

might think it sounds comical and realize this guy hasn't had too much experience of speaking with Thai males.

[katana]

Another female speech pattern: I seem to remember a native Thai speaker on the forum here a while back saying that JANG LUR-EE จังเลย is more a female speech pattern than male. Don't know how true this is...

[meadish_sweetball]

I think it may bear some truth, although there is certain to be exceptions - I especially recall hearing younger men use 'jang loei'.

[siamesekitty]

Another female speech pattern: I seem to remember a native Thai speaker on the forum here a while back saying that JANG LUR-EE จังเลย is more a female speech pattern than male.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would that be me? That was in this Jung Loiea thread.

I think it may bear some truth, although there is certain to be exceptions - I especially recall hearing younger men use 'jang loei'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, but it IS a bit difficult to pull it off without sounding kinda feminine. I think it's inherent in the "softness" of the pronounciation; the loei has a long vowel that kind of drags out and can end up sounding "whiney" or "coo-ey"

Edited November 4, 2005 by siamesekitty

[Abandon]

Siam, your new avatar is suay jang leoy

[katana]

Another female speech pattern: I seem to remember a native Thai speaker on the forum here a while back saying that JANG LUR-EE จังเลย is more a female speech pattern than male.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would that be me? That was in this Jung Loiea thread.

Yes it was you...how could I forget!

[Mr_Dave]

For learning Thai language, I wonder if anyone else is using (or has used) "Learn to Read With Manee" - mentioned in my previous post above.

My learning experience with those web pages has been excellent.

One essential skill I've learned is how to separate the individual words.

The "Manee" tutorials separate the words for beginning students.

So I've learned how to do it, too.

The sounds files are valuable for listening practice.

The sound quality is very good, and the tones are clear and distinct.

The stories are read at two rates, very slow, and moderate.

That's helpful for picking out the individual words.

But I don't practice speaking by imitating those voices, because the voices are women.

And there's another, unexpected, benefit of using the "Manee" program: instant attention from Thai women of all ages!

I often read my Thai lessons whilst having a foot massage.

Thais are curious by nature, and one or another will come to see what I am reading.

The "Manee" books are famous throughout Thailand - even though not used in schools anymore.

When one of the Thai girls sees I am reading "Manee", all the others cluster around and read over my shoulder, and start chattering together - with me as the center of their attention.

That's fun!

A wider benefit I've gained from studying Thai is the joy of being able to read signs.

I rarely understand the meaning of the street names, for example, but I can sound out the words.

Now, riding the BTS and subway, I get good practice reading the signs and listening to the station announcements.

But I still can't make out advertisements or product packages that use non-traditional type fonts ... I need to see those little circles on the letters.

I would appreciate reading experiences/opinions from others who have used "Learn to Read With Manee".

http://www.learningthai.com/books/manee/index.html

[meadish_sweetball]

I haven' t used Manee personally, but I appreciate your comment that it is a valuable thing for having a common frame of reference with Thais - these things are important to feel at home in a culture.

For example, when you hear Modern Dog's bone crushing heavy metal anthem about Manee, you will realize they took the text right of the Manee readers - very funny.

A wider benefit I've gained from studying Thai is the joy of being able to read signs.

I rarely understand the meaning of the street names, for example, but I can sound out the words.

This is a compelling reason for learning how to read - another one is that you won't be left to your companions' devices when ordering food in restaurants with no English menu - and in restaurants with both a Thai and an English menu, you can see if they have left something out in the English version... and compare the prices.

I am sure you have also had the experience of trying to decipher your way through a particularly difficult street sign, only to suddenly realize it is in fact a completely English sign text, only rendered in Thai script.

But I still can't make out advertisements or product packages that use non-traditional type fonts ... I need to see those little circles on the letters.

This forum has had posts about how to recognize non-standard fonts before. I recommend you play around with the Search function (fonts etc.) as I am sure you'll find something of interest. I remember Firefoxx posted some very helpful hints about this when the subject came up last time.

[Groongthep]

I have not used this site but I have used the one at the Northern Illinois University SEAsite http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Thai/default.htm . They are quite similar. How long has the Maanii program been at the "Learing Thai" site? I was there about a year ago and don't remember seeing it then. I know the one at the NIU SEAsite has been there for years and has been constantly upgraded and improved over a long period of time. The original Maanii Readers were developed for the Thai educational system but were, of course, in print only. Makes me wonder if the people at the school in Samut Prakan (where the "Learning Thai" site originates) may have "borrowed" the work from somewhere else. Regardless, I agree that both sites are great learning tools.

[meadish_sweetball]

I can confirm Seasite has had maanii for a long time - at least six years.

[siamesekitty]

Oh, the memories the Manee reader brings! I remember my struggles with reading and writing, once upon a time, long long ago..

I'm now using learningthai's Manee to teach my man to read Thai. It's not exactly the same as the one on the Northern Illinois University site; I actually prefer the learningthai version because it seems a bit simpler (and the pictures are more like the what the actual reader looked like). I'll be using the other site for practice drills later on.

I love both these sites!

Edited November 6, 2005 by siamesekitty

[mussen]

I can second the recommendtion for P & A Language Centre (Silom). I've been learning there for around 50 hours and am very happy with the courses. I've been taking 1-1 tutoring and found their flexible approach benefits my schedule. Call them on 02-2379252