Renal Failure In Dogs

[evanson]

My 5 year old greyhound/lab mix has just been diagnosed with 75% renal failure. So he only has 25% fully functional. From which, to my surprise, I've read on yet another website is not as drastic as you'd think.

This diagnosis was delivered to me just yesterday, together with a small bag of Prescription Diet dried 'kibble' and a can of soft PD at a not insubstantial cost. Not that I'm complaining if it worked, insofar as my dog (1) was able to eat it (picky) and (2) didn't throw it all back up again after the next morning's walk.

So I took the advice of one online vet, agreeing that quality of life better than attempting to starve dog into eating that which he will NOT eat, and fried him up a mackerel. He ate a little, trying to ignore expensive 'special' kibble sneaked in, and, so far, hasn't upchucked that.

Anyone here having same problems/able to advise? Vet adamant dog should eat ONLY this 'special diet kibble' ALONE, but if he won't, rather give him as good a diet as possible and not watch him quickly turn into a bag of bones.

Anyone?

Edited August 28, 2011 by evanson

[TinaKohChang]

My 5 month old Rottweiler puppy has a kidney disease, which is caused by parasites (from ticks) in her bloodcells. If there is a kidneyproblem what kind so ever, I was told that you should try to feed less proteins and phosphats possible. My dog was set on same diet with the KD renal cans from Hills and the same company' s dryfood. Luna does not like the food at all. At the moment I feed her boiled chicken without fat together with rice and some boiled egg and mix that KD food under, she eats it, even if with not a big appetite and mostly picks only the cicken out... This gives her of course not enough calories and she is very thin already.

She gets also still antibiotics against the parasites, a pill twice a day to stimulate her apetite and a pill helping the kidneys doing their work.

I would also like to get some advice on what I could feed her else then what I am giving her now and which fore and foremost gives her enough calories and does not cause the kidneys. The Hills diet is not an option and I would prefer to feed her something fresh.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

[evanson]

My 5 month old Rottweiler puppy has a kidney disease, which is caused by parasites (from ticks) in her bloodcells. If there is a kidneyproblem what kind so ever, I was told that you should try to feed less proteins and phosphats possible. My dog was set on same diet with the KD renal cans from Hills and the same company' s dryfood. Luna does not like the food at all. At the moment I feed her boiled chicken without fat together with rice and some boiled egg and mix that KD food under, she eats it, even if with not a big appetite and mostly picks only the cicken out... This gives her of course not enough calories and she is very thin already.

She gets also still antibiotics against the parasites, a pill twice a day to stimulate her apetite and a pill helping the kidneys doing their work.

I would also like to get some advice on what I could feed her else then what I am giving her now and which fore and foremost gives her enough calories and does not cause the kidneys. The Hills diet is not an option and I would prefer to feed her something fresh.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply. My dog threw his dinner back up - in the middle of the night, he sleeps with me. Does your pup vomit a lot? That seems to be the only thing from keeping him leading a normal life, aside from he gets tired quickly when out for a run, now slow walk.

One website stated that Omega (fish oil was shown to improve longevity, I see there's a thread currently running on this). Also, dogs love fish. Not just cats. And they are omnivores so mixed veg would help. Just Google 'home made remedies/diets for renal failure in dogs'.

I'm popping into the vet today to ask if anything can be administered to stop the vomiting. There are of course meds for humans for this.

When asked how he got it the vet merely said 'He have long time' and 'Too much high protein' (?!) I'd been feeding him Smart Heart for the past year, which he now won't touch either, after living on chicken and rice, which he loves, but not very balanced diet.

Please let me know about the vomiting, the vet warned he'd have this, but he only started after the 'special kibble', which he now won't touch, same yours, either.

Edited August 29, 2011 by evanson

[Cuban]

....should try to feed less proteins and phosphats possible.

This is my understanding of a suitable diet for kidney problems.

Hills Science diet is based on Rice or potato and Lamb (+chicken fat) as the protein in most cases.

You might consider a home-cooked diet based on cooked broken rice cooked with white fish (no bones), use chicken skin/fat to add the attractive smell for dogs. With kidneys getting water into their system to help "flush" the kidneys is wise, so serving food as a soup.

If you are increasing the dog's water consumption, allow for increased urination. So a place and opportunity to "go", bear this in mind if the dog is inside a house most of the time.

Co-coincidently the thread running at the moment about fish-oil supplement has a few suggestions that would help as Omega-3 fatty acids (Flaxseed oil) are also suggested for kidney problems.

The doggie health reference book I have just looked in suggests that a diet of processed pet foods is a contributory factor in kidney problems. Certainly with dried kibble biscuits they have to draw a lot of water from the dog's digestive system to pass through the intestines.

Even though the factories that make kibble say it should be served with fresh water this is probably not enough. You might consider adding a cup of boiling water to the kibble and allow it to stand for 20 minutes or so to allow the water to be absorbed and cool down to room temperature. This makes it more easily digested and the warmed food will smell more interesting to the dog.

Cats are notorious for kidney problems and lack of water drinking, dogs seem to have a better instinct to drink extra water. One thing about dogs is that they are driven 70% by smell as their primary motivating sense. If there is a reluctance to drink water it might be due to the smell of the water. If you serve water straight from the tap it probably has an unnatural "chemical" smell. We have a 40 gallon barrel that we leave to stand and the water to loose it's tap smell, then the dogs get a bowl refilled from the barrel.

If there are kidney stones one suggestion I have read about is adding vinegar to the water, I'm unsure this would work as the smell would probably stop the dog drinking the water. Adding a half human dose of vitamin C to the soup meal (above) is likely to have a similar effect, also the absence Vit-C is considered a possible contributory factor in hip-dysplasia. So worth doing in any case.

HTH

--------------------edit-------------------

My writing coincided with your second post, from my own experiences with kidney pain: the pain is such that you just vomit up food and have no desire to eat anything. The only thing I ate for a few weeks was small portions of Jok.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Cuban

[TinaKohChang]

My 5 month old Rottweiler puppy has a kidney disease, which is caused by parasites (from ticks) in her bloodcells. If there is a kidneyproblem what kind so ever, I was told that you should try to feed less proteins and phosphats possible. My dog was set on same diet with the KD renal cans from Hills and the same company' s dryfood. Luna does not like the food at all. At the moment I feed her boiled chicken without fat together with rice and some boiled egg and mix that KD food under, she eats it, even if with not a big appetite and mostly picks only the cicken out... This gives her of course not enough calories and she is very thin already.

She gets also still antibiotics against the parasites, a pill twice a day to stimulate her apetite and a pill helping the kidneys doing their work.

I would also like to get some advice on what I could feed her else then what I am giving her now and which fore and foremost gives her enough calories and does not cause the kidneys. The Hills diet is not an option and I would prefer to feed her something fresh.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply. My dog threw his dinner back up - in the middle of the night, he sleeps with me. Does your pup vomit a lot? That seems to be the only thing from keeping him leading a normal life, aside from he gets tired quickly when out for a run, now slow walk.

One website stated that Omega (fish oil was shown to improve longevity, I see there's a thread currently running on this). Also, dogs love fish. Not just cats. And they are omnivores so mixed veg would help. Just Google 'home made remedies/diets for renal failure in dogs'.

I'm popping into the vet today to ask if anything can be administered to stop the vomiting. There are of course meds for humans for this.

When asked how he got it the vet merely said 'He have long time' and 'Too much high protein' (?!) I'd been feeding him Smart Heart for the past year, which he now won't touch either, after living on chicken and rice, which he loves, but not very balanced diet.

Please let me know about the vomiting, the vet warned he'd have this, but he only started after the 'special kibble', which he now won't touch, same yours, either.

Luna is not vomitting at all anymore, but did a lot before I went to the vet first time about 3 weeks ago and that was before she was diagnosted with a kidney disease. Besides the kidney disease she was also anorexic and as a side effect got anaemia. I had her at my local vet everyday for a few hours where she got fluids to help her not to dehydrate, she got antibiotics and other pills, I believe that there were some small white ones to prevent her from vomitting.. The entire procedere did not helped a lot but atleast she stopped vomitting. Both bloodcounts made between 2 weeks were really bad, in fact the second was even worse. My vet (very good and the only one on the island) who has a small clinic only and not all the fascilities needed, suggested to bring her to a good clinic on the mainland where she could stay 24 hours for a minimum of 5 days. That I did and there she got 5 different fluids over 24 hours, she was also treated with other medication and they managed that she ate the Hills food, she was released after 5 days more fit and in an overall better condition, last week and even gained weight again but out of the animal hospital she did not touch that food anymore and I started the chicken /rice thing again. At that hospital they did not told me much either, they just said the last bloodcount shows that she is musch better and on a good way, the good thing also was that she likes the KD renal food and asked me to check her blood regulary once a week for a few more weeks to follow. I am due to the vet again by tomorrow for a new blood testing. I will talk to her also about your dog and tell you about the outcome ASAP

Best, Tina

Edited August 29, 2011 by TinaKohChang

[evanson]

Good news re the vomiting ceasing. Returned from the vet to find 2 new grass filled upchucks this afternoon. Was given little white pills think you may have had, and told to give half a tab 30 minutes before eating. Duly did and dog now won't eat his freshly bought tinned mackerel mixed with ridiculously priced 'special' kibble anyway. Here's a link to who owns that little earner, together with the other big corporations making up the dominant market share in the very lucrative pet food biz. http://tinyurl.com/yctuxqp

This very good site also gives homemade recipes, much more palatable.

I should've stuck with the chicken carcass and rice. Will buy him his favourite, kor gai and mix it up with some rice tomorrow. Also some pumpkin, fuk tong. Very high in fibre and recommended for those whose dogs are constipated. Plus, they like the smell/taste.

Edited August 29, 2011 by evanson

[TinaKohChang]

Good news re the vomiting ceasing. Returned from the vet to find 2 new grass filled upchucks this afternoon. Was given little white pills think you may have had, and told to give half a tab 30 minutes before eating. Duly did and dog now won't eat his freshly bought tinned mackerel mixed with ridiculously priced 'special' kibble anyway. Here's a link to who owns that little earner, together with the other big corporations making up the dominant market share in the very lucrative pet food biz. http://tinyurl.com/yctuxqp

This very good site also gives homemade recipes, much more palatable.

I should've stuck with the chicken carcass and rice. Will buy him his favourite, kor gai and mix it up with some rice tomorrow. Also some pumpkin, fuk tong. Very high in fibre and recommended for those whose dogs are constipated. Plus, they like the smell/taste.

Yes, sounds that tghis are the same white pills, Luna has got! I ope that your dog will be better very soon.

Thank you so much for the link, this helps a lot! I am getting nervous again since Luna is drinking lots of water from today in the morning and pees also a lot. This had stopped already for almost 2 weeks... and that together with the vomiting in the beginning was the reason to bring her to the vet... I am there again by tomorrow morning and hope the best.

[bina]

pramin (like for people) is what is given for vomiting; can also be injected so if vomiting a lot, ask vet for syringe filled with proper amount and learn to inject (under skin)...

dogs hat the kidney diets and the only reason they eat thme in vet offices is that those of us that work (ed) as vet assistants take lots of time out more or less force feeding the dog the food in small amounts thruout the day...

another plus is being able to give fluits ?or not... if u can give fluid thru under the skin IV set ups (if she needs to be hydrated). dogs dont love it, but most will sit quietly while giving several amounts of fluid under the skin if petted and stroked and talked to quiety.(except sharpeis which seem to be super sensitive)

a lot of russian dog owners here cook their own food for their dogs for kidney diet since apparently in the former soviet, most people couldnt afford or didnt have access to special diet foods: veggetables and stuff with whole rice....

bina

israel

[evanson]

pramin (like for people) is what is given for vomiting; can also be injected so if vomiting a lot, ask vet for syringe filled with proper amount and learn to inject (under skin)...

dogs hat the kidney diets and the only reason they eat thme in vet offices is that those of us that work (ed) as vet assistants take lots of time out more or less force feeding the dog the food in small amounts thruout the day...

another plus is being able to give fluits ?or not... if u can give fluid thru under the skin IV set ups (if she needs to be hydrated). dogs dont love it, but most will sit quietly while giving several amounts of fluid under the skin if petted and stroked and talked to quiety.(except sharpeis which seem to be super sensitive)

a lot of russian dog owners here cook their own food for their dogs for kidney diet since apparently in the former soviet, most people couldnt afford or didnt have access to special diet foods: veggetables and stuff with whole rice....

bina

israel

Good to hear about the anti-vomiting meds being injectable, although rather vet did it. Trying to get a tab down dog's throat difficult enough. Managed to get another half tab down dog's throat this morning, which he promptly threw up together with a bucketful of bile. Dog now sleeping off trauma and won't come down for his freshly cooked mackerel and rice. Next step is to buy him some kor gai, if he turns his nose up at that, then it'll be a futile (in the long term) stay at a vet's clinic to rehydrate him. Although he is drinking water, so can't see how that would help. Onward ...

PS I believe all these commercial pet foods are a con. My mother's Siamese cat died of renal failure on a dry diet. Again, see who owns them. Dogs and cats managed very well on leftovers. By the way, dogs will eat bananas! So many here and all that's available to most Thais.

[TinaKohChang]

pramin (like for people) is what is given for vomiting; can also be injected so if vomiting a lot, ask vet for syringe filled with proper amount and learn to inject (under skin)...

dogs hat the kidney diets and the only reason they eat thme in vet offices is that those of us that work (ed) as vet assistants take lots of time out more or less force feeding the dog the food in small amounts thruout the day...

another plus is being able to give fluits ?or not... if u can give fluid thru under the skin IV set ups (if she needs to be hydrated). dogs dont love it, but most will sit quietly while giving several amounts of fluid under the skin if petted and stroked and talked to quiety.(except sharpeis which seem to be super sensitive)

a lot of russian dog owners here cook their own food for their dogs for kidney diet since apparently in the former soviet, most people couldnt afford or didnt have access to special diet foods: veggetables and stuff with whole rice....

bina

israel

Good to hear about the anti-vomiting meds being injectable, although rather vet did it. Trying to get a tab down dog's throat difficult enough. Managed to get another half tab down dog's throat this morning, which he promptly threw up together with a bucketful of bile. Dog now sleeping off trauma and won't come down for his freshly cooked mackerel and rice. Next step is to buy him some kor gai, if he turns his nose up at that, then it'll be a futile (in the long term) stay at a vet's clinic to rehydrate him. Although he is drinking water, so can't see how that would help. Onward ...

PS I believe all these commercial pet foods are a con. My mother's Siamese cat died of renal failure on a dry diet. Again, see who owns them. Dogs and cats managed very well on leftovers. By the way, dogs will eat bananas! So many here and all that's available to most Thais.

@ Bina:

Bina, thank you very much for the comment and advise. Luna meanwhile eats it all, and this comes a funny way... I do have 4 dogs and 2 cats in the moment and during the time of her acute disease when nobody knew wat exactely she has, I kept them all separate and Luna always got her food alone and separate from the others... It is not really good that she shows now kind of jealousy on food but as long as it helps to have her eat and gaining weight, I am ok that my cats help with that.

I agree with Evanson that the food mostly is crap and I stick to the self cooking diet with rice, white fish, chicken etc...

Just for the oil, would you kindly advise me which is best? Vegetable oil is easy to find, but te Thai fishsauce/oil is surely not useful, so what kind of do you suggest?

@ Evanson:

Do not worry about the sleeping and kind of apathetic behavior, this is normal and comes also from the disease and medication. The dog is sick, does not feel well, and sleeping is not the badest! Luna had the same, after 8 or 10 days that was gone and she slowly started to become herself again jumping and playing around. For the pills, try to not to put into throught if he spy it out or again starts vomiting, I know the vet said, 30 min before food, but it is no prob to put the pill in some piece of chocken meat pr what ever he likes most and try to get the medication in that way, mostly it works! If that does not work, you may want to consider to have him an impatient at an animal hospital for up to 5 days, where he will get everything incl the very important fluids 24 hours a day intravenous. I do not know where you live. I had Luna in Jomtien/Pattaya which is a few hours away from my location, I took a Hotelroom myself close by for a week to be with her every day... It was affordable, under 5000 Baht all incl for her stay and treatment, and she was sooo much better after! If his is in your reach, let me know please, I will gladly recommend the hospital... they are very good. Again, I wish yu all the best for your dog, please keep me up to date about your buddy!

Tina

[evanson]

pramin (like for people) is what is given for vomiting; can also be injected so if vomiting a lot, ask vet for syringe filled with proper amount and learn to inject (under skin)...

dogs hat the kidney diets and the only reason they eat thme in vet offices is that those of us that work (ed) as vet assistants take lots of time out more or less force feeding the dog the food in small amounts thruout the day...

another plus is being able to give fluits ?or not... if u can give fluid thru under the skin IV set ups (if she needs to be hydrated). dogs dont love it, but most will sit quietly while giving several amounts of fluid under the skin if petted and stroked and talked to quiety.(except sharpeis which seem to be super sensitive)

a lot of russian dog owners here cook their own food for their dogs for kidney diet since apparently in the former soviet, most people couldnt afford or didnt have access to special diet foods: veggetables and stuff with whole rice....

bina

israel

Good to hear about the anti-vomiting meds being injectable, although rather vet did it. Trying to get a tab down dog's throat difficult enough. Managed to get another half tab down dog's throat this morning, which he promptly threw up together with a bucketful of bile. Dog now sleeping off trauma and won't come down for his freshly cooked mackerel and rice. Next step is to buy him some kor gai, if he turns his nose up at that, then it'll be a futile (in the long term) stay at a vet's clinic to rehydrate him. Although he is drinking water, so can't see how that would help. Onward ...

PS I believe all these commercial pet foods are a con. My mother's Siamese cat died of renal failure on a dry diet. Again, see who owns them. Dogs and cats managed very well on leftovers. By the way, dogs will eat bananas! So many here and all that's available to most Thais.

@ Bina:

Bina, thank you very much for the comment and advise. Luna meanwhile eats it all, and this comes a funny way... I do have 4 dogs and 2 cats in the moment and during the time of her acute disease when nobody knew wat exactely she has, I kept them all separate and Luna always got her food alone and separate from the others... It is not really good that she shows now kind of jealousy on food but as long as it helps to have her eat and gaining weight, I am ok that my cats help with that.

I agree with Evanson that the food mostly is crap and I stick to the self cooking diet with rice, white fish, chicken etc...

Just for the oil, would you kindly advise me which is best? Vegetable oil is easy to find, but te Thai fishsauce/oil is surely not useful, so what kind of do you suggest?

@ Evanson:

Do not worry about the sleeping and kind of apathetic behavior, this is normal and comes also from the disease and medication. The dog is sick, does not feel well, and sleeping is not the badest! Luna had the same, after 8 or 10 days that was gone and she slowly started to become herself again jumping and playing around. For the pills, try to not to put into throught if he spy it out or again starts vomiting, I know the vet said, 30 min before food, but it is no prob to put the pill in some piece of chocken meat pr what ever he likes most and try to get the medication in that way, mostly it works! If that does not work, you may want to consider to have him an impatient at an animal hospital for up to 5 days, where he will get everything incl the very important fluids 24 hours a day intravenous. I do not know where you live. I had Luna in Jomtien/Pattaya which is a few hours away from my location, I took a Hotelroom myself close by for a week to be with her every day... It was affordable, under 5000 Baht all incl for her stay and treatment, and she was sooo much better after! If his is in your reach, let me know please, I will gladly recommend the hospital... they are very good. Again, I wish yu all the best for your dog, please keep me up to date about your buddy!

Tina

Hello Tina. Vet close by and kindly visited my house twice today. Once to give the injection for vomiting as suggested by Bina. I then went off and bought him his favourite, a piece of barbecued chicken and he wouldn't touch it. So vet came out again and he's currently in one of the bedrooms with intravenous saline drip (much less stressful for him than clinic, I'm very lucky), after having been given a couple of syringe full's of that strong vitamin gel from a tube, I remember I'd had to give to a cat before. Apparently drip must stay in all night, which is okay as he's very lethargic, although did manage a couple of turns around the block today. Vet says she will return this evening. So will see how it goes.

Happy to hear you're able to provide Luna with a natural diet and off that 'special' (yeah, special in price, just leave the sodium out and lower the protein, pah!)

Let's both see how our mutts are progressing

[evanson]

Have just moved from 'he have long time' (dog only 5) to possible renal failure due to poisoning. Dog had vomited BRIGHT GREEN substance, copiously, just two days before swift onset of renal failure. He's still on a drip and daily meds.

The reason I'm posting HERE is that, although there are many sites on canine renal failure - Tina from Koh Chang would do well to join K9Yahoo groups - is because they are ALL western based, of course.

Does anyone know what this substance might be? Is there anything the locals use to poison dogs that would produce this colour vomit and shut down the animals' kidneys?

Edited September 1, 2011 by evanson

[evanson]

Antifreeze! Ethylene Glycol. Used as a coolant in hot weather/countries together with brake fluid. Neon green/pink. Sweet tasting to kids and pets.

Make sure you clean up after you. Though sure this will fall on some deaf ears.

[bina]

yes poison can cause acute renal failure as opposed to chronic renal failure. also eating medications like paracetamol in quantity or other meds meant for people. unfortunately with acute renal failure the survival rate is not as good as chronic... also other pesticides/weed killers can cause renal failure.. we get many cases here due to agriculture near to lving areas and people having easy access to poisons to throw in to neighbhor hood yards...

good luck

bina