Thai Govt Outperformed Opposition: Polls

[hammered]

It is a little early to judge the democrats in opposition beyond saying it was bad judgement to launch such a furious assault on government before they had done anything. One can only guess the kind of pressure being applied to the Dems by their extra-parliamentary allies after Abhisit got it so badly wrong in his electoral judgement and now having to deliver in some other way.

Korn may be keeping a low profile and assessing his options for the future. He managed to survive the last government with his reputation pretty intact. At some point the Dems need to change leader even if it will mean a fratricidal party battle, which may be why they stuck with the heavily damaged Abhisit anyway

Agreed I was probably a little too prematurely critical as I conceded to OzMick.

As to Korn he is intriguing.As you know it was Korn who floated the minimum wage idea in the first place.It makes a lot of sense as Thailand needs to raise its value added which can't be done on the back of cheap labour.

Yes the raising skills is critical now the IMF has upgraded Thailand in income assessment. I think Korn is probably too much of the real deal for most democrats. He also wanted inheritance and unused land taxes. While he was also quite open about ridding Thailand of Thaksin, he is also supposedly quite friendly with Yingluck. With a combination of ideas like that, he is probably not what the vested interest group would want fronting up their pet party and there is probably not going to be a party he could move to.

[zydeco]

Anyone ever stop to ask himself what would replace PTP if there were no PTP? Seems to me that there is quite a huge precipice just to the left of the PTP.

Possibly democracy, but no Thaksin would never allow that he would have his red shirts out again.

I don't care about democracy. I do care about public safety, maintenance of order (some at least), growth in standard of living, and a sense of national cohesiveness.

Spoken like a true Redshirt. Except for the part about public safety

I'm not a red shirt. I'm a blackshirt.

[OzMick]

Pretty much as expected. Most people want to judge government on performance. The furious attack on the government by the opposition, some media and some other critics that we have seen over the past few weeks was always also going to risk being viewed negatively as the government had been given no chance to actually do anything.

Usually in a democracy a grace period of several months at least is given especially after a change in ruling party. It was odd that the assault started even before the government was in and was so utterly furious in nature. People notice that kind of thing and it also made it easy for Yingluck to say "give us a chance and judge us on performance" which she did. Sympathy after the opposition went far to far too quickly is likely a big issue.

Agreed.I glanced at the article this morning and wondered how long it would take before the ABAC poll's methodology was rubbished.I can now see that it only took one hour and forty five minutes, predictably from members who over the years have regularly invoked ABAC polls when the findings suited them!

Actually I don't have that much faith in Thailand polling organisations generally.I think it was you Hammered that pointed out some time ago that only the military seems to have a well organised and structured capacity to gauge public opinion.

As to the performance of the government it's obviously too early to take a view and one doesn't need pollsters to tell us that.Most Thais are obviously keeping their minds open.My own view is that there are some unsettling aspects as well as more positive ones.One fact however seems clear beyond dispute.The Democrats are proving to be as hopeless in opposition as, with a few exceptions such as Korn, as they were in office (and even Korn has been rather unimpressive in opposition).One aspect is peculiar, even comic, namely the tone of some statements from Democrat leaders suggesting they have forgotten the Thai people have just rejected them.The assumption of entitlement and overweening arrogance dies hard.

It is a little early to judge the democrats in opposition beyond saying it was bad judgement to launch such a furious assault on government before they had done anything. One can only guess the kind of pressure being applied to the Dems by their extra-parliamentary allies after Abhisit got it so badly wrong in his electoral judgement and now having to deliver in some other way.

Korn may be keeping a low profile and assessing his options for the future. He managed to survive the last government with his reputation pretty intact. At some point the Dems need to change leader even if it will mean a fratricidal party battle, which may be why they stuck with the heavily damaged Abhisit anyway

Why should it be bad judgement to point out the promises the government made to get elected are being altered, deferred, curtailed or outright abandoned in their policy speech? Take the prevarications with the B300/day min wage - if this was such a grand concept, a well-thought-out policy, it could have been enacted on Day 1. Forget the PTP crap, all it takes is a simple piece of legislation. Does any minimum wage worker in this country have the faintest idea when this overwhelmingly popular promise will eventuate, if at all? Or what a B300/day "income" means? But he will have a fair idea that when he counts it, it won't add up to B300 in his hot little hand.

Should the opposition accept that it was just a "campaign speech"? (Notice how the word promise disappeared as well!)

[lannarebirth]

Anyone ever stop to ask himself what would replace PTP if there were no PTP? Seems to me that there is quite a huge precipice just to the left of the PTP.

Imagine a Democratic party with no military/monarchial bagage. That's what the people really want and need. Sadly it will require a Democratic majority poll victory to pull that off, which doesn't seem to be anywhere on the horizon.

[chuang]

Interesting how the majority of Thais surveyed would like to give the government a chance.

How very different than many of the views expressed in TVF from those who want the government to fail or to be removed.

Strange, why are these people still enjoying themselves in Thailand, why don't they go back to the own countries to criticize or remove their governments...Why are you still here ????????

[hammered]

Pretty much as expected. Most people want to judge government on performance. The furious attack on the government by the opposition, some media and some other critics that we have seen over the past few weeks was always also going to risk being viewed negatively as the government had been given no chance to actually do anything.

Usually in a democracy a grace period of several months at least is given especially after a change in ruling party. It was odd that the assault started even before the government was in and was so utterly furious in nature. People notice that kind of thing and it also made it easy for Yingluck to say "give us a chance and judge us on performance" which she did. Sympathy after the opposition went far to far too quickly is likely a big issue.

Agreed.I glanced at the article this morning and wondered how long it would take before the ABAC poll's methodology was rubbished.I can now see that it only took one hour and forty five minutes, predictably from members who over the years have regularly invoked ABAC polls when the findings suited them!

Actually I don't have that much faith in Thailand polling organisations generally.I think it was you Hammered that pointed out some time ago that only the military seems to have a well organised and structured capacity to gauge public opinion.

As to the performance of the government it's obviously too early to take a view and one doesn't need pollsters to tell us that.Most Thais are obviously keeping their minds open.My own view is that there are some unsettling aspects as well as more positive ones.One fact however seems clear beyond dispute.The Democrats are proving to be as hopeless in opposition as, with a few exceptions such as Korn, as they were in office (and even Korn has been rather unimpressive in opposition).One aspect is peculiar, even comic, namely the tone of some statements from Democrat leaders suggesting they have forgotten the Thai people have just rejected them.The assumption of entitlement and overweening arrogance dies hard.

It is a little early to judge the democrats in opposition beyond saying it was bad judgement to launch such a furious assault on government before they had done anything. One can only guess the kind of pressure being applied to the Dems by their extra-parliamentary allies after Abhisit got it so badly wrong in his electoral judgement and now having to deliver in some other way.

Korn may be keeping a low profile and assessing his options for the future. He managed to survive the last government with his reputation pretty intact. At some point the Dems need to change leader even if it will mean a fratricidal party battle, which may be why they stuck with the heavily damaged Abhisit anyway

Why should it be bad judgement to point out the promises the government made to get elected are being altered, deferred, curtailed or outright abandoned in their policy speech? Take the prevarications with the B300/day min wage - if this was such a grand concept, a well-thought-out policy, it could have been enacted on Day 1. Forget the PTP crap, all it takes is a simple piece of legislation. Does any minimum wage worker in this country have the faintest idea when this overwhelmingly popular promise will eventuate, if at all? Or what a B300/day "income" means? But he will have a fair idea that when he counts it, it won't add up to B300 in his hot little hand.

Should the opposition accept that it was just a "campaign speech"? (Notice how the word promise disappeared as well!)

I think they should have raised questions but in a less furious manner especially by a bunch who had just had their policies rejected. Is anyone surprised most people seem willing to give the government time? And now that the government have just scrapped the oil fund after the Dems and anti-Thaksin brigade and media said they wouldnt do sio we are left maybe thinking lets wait and see and judge as maybe the opposition and their media mates are actually telling porkies.

[MILT]

Interesting how the majority of Thais surveyed would like to give the government a chance.

How very different than many of the views expressed in TVF from those who want the government to fail or to be removed.

The only thing that this government has outperformed is the level of deceit and the up and coming graft. If the polls favor Pardon Thaskin Party then they are not bias, but when going against the current misleading Government then very bias and one sided. The TVF members that live, work, and retired that have been here long before the Taskin BS know very well what this election is all about. Please don't take my word for it, just sit back and watch what's about to emerge very soon.

[hammered]

Interesting how the majority of Thais surveyed would like to give the government a chance.

How very different than many of the views expressed in TVF from those who want the government to fail or to be removed.

The only thing that this government has outperformed is the level of deceit and the up and coming graft. If the polls favor Pardon Thaskin Party then they are not bias, but when going against the current misleading Government then very bias and one sided. The TVF members that live, work, and retired that have been here long before the Taskin BS know very well what this election is all about. Please don't take my word for it, just sit back and watch what's about to emerge very soon.

Yes and everyone who has been around long enough should know this is not just about Thaksin but about other players and their interests too. It is a high level power game on one level and an increasing demand for less inequality by the majority on another level with the two issues mixed up.

[whybother]

I think they should have raised questions but in a less furious manner especially by a bunch who had just had their policies rejected. Is anyone surprised most people seem willing to give the government time? And now that the government have just scrapped the oil fund after the Dems and anti-Thaksin brigade and media said they wouldnt do sio we are left maybe thinking lets wait and see and judge as maybe the opposition and their media mates are actually telling porkies.

Actually, they didn't have their policies rejected, as shown by the blind poll that showed that the Democrat policies were preferred.

[hammered]

I think they should have raised questions but in a less furious manner especially by a bunch who had just had their policies rejected. Is anyone surprised most people seem willing to give the government time? And now that the government have just scrapped the oil fund after the Dems and anti-Thaksin brigade and media said they wouldnt do sio we are left maybe thinking lets wait and see and judge as maybe the opposition and their media mates are actually telling porkies.

Actually, they didn't have their policies rejected, as shown by the blind poll that showed that the Democrat policies were preferred.

Well OK by a party that was rejected by the people for whatever reason. The Dems are so utterly useless at electoral campaigning that I admit nobody may have had a clue what their policies were . Mind you after a few years of pulling the levers of power they should have had what they were about known countrywide. I cant imagine a Thaksin government not having every policy they ever introduced known right down to the level of the illiterate, so you may have a point and it is actually more about incompetance and inability to inform

[lannarebirth]

I think they should have raised questions but in a less furious manner especially by a bunch who had just had their policies rejected. Is anyone surprised most people seem willing to give the government time? And now that the government have just scrapped the oil fund after the Dems and anti-Thaksin brigade and media said they wouldnt do sio we are left maybe thinking lets wait and see and judge as maybe the opposition and their media mates are actually telling porkies.

Actually, they didn't have their policies rejected, as shown by the blind poll that showed that the Democrat policies were preferred.

Well OK by a party that was rejected by the people for whatever reason. The Dems are so utterly useless at electoral campaigning that I admit nobody may have had a clue what their policies were . Mind you after a few years of pulling the levers of power they should have had what they were about known countrywide. I cant imagine a Thaksin government not having every policy they ever introduced known right down to the level of the illiterate, so you may have a point and it is actually more about incompetance and inability to inform

Yes , Thaksin's policies were known by all, as they were clearly posted on billboards nationwide. What is now widely known by all is that it was all bullshit.

and if Abhisit couldn't get his message out it may have had something to do with the threats of extreme violence that would occur if he dared to travel to the upper half of the country. Red democracy in action.

[whybother]

Well OK by a party that was rejected by the people for whatever reason. The Dems are so utterly useless at electoral campaigning that I admit nobody may have had a clue what their policies were . Mind you after a few years of pulling the levers of power they should have had what they were about known countrywide. I cant imagine a Thaksin government not having every policy they ever introduced known right down to the level of the illiterate, so you may have a point and it is actually more about incompetance and inability to inform

Actually, I just put it down to "inability to inform".

The left the country in a reasonable state economically. They were just unable to inform the electorate about how they did / were going to fix problems.

[hammered]

I think they should have raised questions but in a less furious manner especially by a bunch who had just had their policies rejected. Is anyone surprised most people seem willing to give the government time? And now that the government have just scrapped the oil fund after the Dems and anti-Thaksin brigade and media said they wouldnt do sio we are left maybe thinking lets wait and see and judge as maybe the opposition and their media mates are actually telling porkies.

Actually, they didn't have their policies rejected, as shown by the blind poll that showed that the Democrat policies were preferred.

Well OK by a party that was rejected by the people for whatever reason. The Dems are so utterly useless at electoral campaigning that I admit nobody may have had a clue what their policies were . Mind you after a few years of pulling the levers of power they should have had what they were about known countrywide. I cant imagine a Thaksin government not having every policy they ever introduced known right down to the level of the illiterate, so you may have a point and it is actually more about incompetance and inability to inform

Yes , Thaksin's policies were known by all, as they were clearly posted on billboards nationwide. What is now widely known by all is that it was all bullshit.

and if Abhisit couldn't get his message out it may have had something to do with the threats of extreme violence that would occur if he dared to travel to the upper half of the country. Red democracy in action.

For two years the Dems controlled the government and could get message out through the interior ministry. They also had control over a huge amount of media and cracked down hard on a lot of red media so they certainly had the apparatus. Whether they understood the importance of PR is a valid question but they did bombard the country with reds are all arsonist and Thaksin is a really bad dude and nobody is as loyal as us and our Newinite mates, which would suggest they did understand the importance even if by choosing such things to push rather than the positive we have done this that and the other for you they chose the wrong message and indeed one that was more likely to give them negatives across most of the country. While Thaksin parties dont mind attack media they tend to play it to the converts while using positive news and reinforcing memory of what they have done (30 baht healthcare, drug war, mafia influence reduction, OTOP, 1 million baht village fund etc) across the broader population. The Dems are it seems a long long way behind in these basics that are needed for successful election campaigns

It was interesting touring much of the lower north during election time. Reality was that both Dems and PTP had posters and billboards up but the Dems had them more on big roads and PTP more in village areas. Even where the dems had a few locally elected reps they didnt seem to have placards at village level. Quite a few on the roads had a hole where Abhisit's face should have been too. The level of hatred towards to him is quite high and even though the locally elected dems and dems standing for parliament could talk to the people Abhisit was an obvious weight around their necks and caused anger. It is a real shame they didnt change him after the election and just to rub things in Robert Amsterdam has given a very spot on analysis of Democrat problems including exactly that issue. I wouldnt take too much he says about Thaksin too seriously but his analysis of the Democrats is startling in its accuracy.

[hammered]

Well OK by a party that was rejected by the people for whatever reason. The Dems are so utterly useless at electoral campaigning that I admit nobody may have had a clue what their policies were . Mind you after a few years of pulling the levers of power they should have had what they were about known countrywide. I cant imagine a Thaksin government not having every policy they ever introduced known right down to the level of the illiterate, so you may have a point and it is actually more about incompetance and inability to inform

Actually, I just put it down to "inability to inform".

The left the country in a reasonable state economically. They were just unable to inform the electorate about how they did / were going to fix problems.

Other Dem problems are Abhisit, April/May, the are as corrupt as the other lot but talk about not liking corruption, and nobody has ever been as competent as Thaksin who was willing to ignore the alternative power structures and do what was needed and that appeals to people who constantly find the alternative power structures disadvantage them, but yes agree that mostly the marketing/PR of the Dems cant compete with any Thaksin party and ability to set the scene goes with advantage in marketing. The Dems now being out of power will find it an even harder struggle to address this as their plants in local authorities and control over media transfers to PTP. And unlike the PTP the Dems have no informal networks, "red" style groupings or "red" style media which were all used to counter the Dem control of state media and interior ministry (via BJT) networks.

[OzMick]

I think they should have raised questions but in a less furious manner especially by a bunch who had just had their policies rejected. Is anyone surprised most people seem willing to give the government time? And now that the government have just scrapped the oil fund after the Dems and anti-Thaksin brigade and media said they wouldnt do sio we are left maybe thinking lets wait and see and judge as maybe the opposition and their media mates are actually telling porkies.

Actually, they didn't have their policies rejected, as shown by the blind poll that showed that the Democrat policies were preferred.

Well OK by a party that was rejected by the people for whatever reason. The Dems are so utterly useless at electoral campaigning that I admit nobody may have had a clue what their policies were . Mind you after a few years of pulling the levers of power they should have had what they were about known countrywide. I cant imagine a Thaksin government not having every policy they ever introduced known right down to the level of the illiterate, so you may have a point and it is actually more about incompetance and inability to inform

Right - even the illiterate understood "minimum wage B300/day." Did you say something about "incompetance and inability to inform." (sic)

[OzMick]

BP has Fin Min Thirachai saying that government "can't force private sector" to pay B300/day. The minimum wage is a myth?

[lannarebirth]

BP has Fin Min Thirachai saying that government "can't force private sector" to pay B300/day. The minimum wage is a myth?

Of course they can, but since they're already in office there's more to be gained by protecting the companies.

[whybother]

ABAC Poll finds majority of respondents don't have trust in govt; they voice disappointment with wage policies and demand clarification /TAN_Network

A week is a long time in politics.

[letitbe]

Interesting how the majority of Thais surveyed would like to give the government a chance.

How very different than many of the views expressed in TVF from those who want the government to fail or to be removed.

I don't think that many "want" the government to fail ... just that they expect the government to fail.

they wont fail they will succeed in every plan to bring Taksin back and start path to one party rule lead by dear brother

[mdechgan]

What?

The opposition owned the government last week!

Natthawut and Jatuporn even made the new lady PM become flustered!

Which provinces where the polls conducted in?

What were the demographics of the polls?

[SomTumTiger]

Interesting how the majority of Thais surveyed would like to give the government a chance.

How very different than many of the views expressed in TVF from those who want the government to fail or to be removed.

No one has said that - you are imagining it. People simple express doubts based on past actions. You are like Fox News - repeat a lie until it because the truth lol.

[Artisi]

Interesting how the majority of Thais surveyed would like to give the government a chance.

How very different than many of the views expressed in TVF from those who want the government to fail or to be removed.

There is one great thing about this government and we farangs should be very happy....soon we will be getting 40 bahts for our dollars, and more Issan daughters will be flooding to Bangkok looking for work.. Thanks Yinluck..!

You manage to be ignorant and offensive in the same short post.Ignoring the "Isaan daughters" and "we Farangs" nonsense (and incidentally offensive at various levels) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I think that is an understatement, w_anker would be a better description.

[rixalex]

Your two points are moot right now, and by the way announced policy is dropped by virtually every democratically elected leader anywhere in the world without a furious assault before government has even made a decision.

I think it is one thing to renege on a general statement of intent, and this is indeed common and accepted, if unpopular practice, such as saying that you will resolve the traffic problem in six months; but when you state something in very exact measures, and in black and white, as PTP did but saying that minimum wage would be set at 300 baht, to then backtrack from this the moment you win power, is not acceptable or normal practice, and my feeling is the reaction to this sort of action in many other countries would be even more vociferous than has been displayed here by those opposing such deceit.

There has to be some sort of a line drawn against how blatantly a party deceives the electorate in its campaigning, don't you think? To simply say that "well if a party wins power because it told outrageous lies is fair enough because the electorate can vote them out in four years time", overlooks the fact that the party is still rewarded from the deceit by four years in power. That's a long time.

Now i am not familiar enough with Thai laws on the matter of electioneering, but my guess is there probably is a very strong case that could be made against PTP, both in terms of its deceit and in terms of it having involved somebody supposedly banned from Thai politics (ie Thaksin), but the problem is now that the reds, Amsterdam et al, have done such a convincing job of getting people, particularly those in the outside world, to believe that they have been unfairly persecuted and that the judiciary is out to get them and to deny the will of the people, that nobody is going to dare find not in their favour. It's as if we have gone straight back to 2001, the point at which in my opinion, all the troubles began.