A Good Day With A Thai Guy :)

[SteeleJoe]

It was someone else that first mentioned "Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing."

My mistake. I didn't realize "the greasing" was meant in that context and was not your term. I apologize.

Of course souvenirs / food from another province are "greasing" in the same way. Its just another social interaction, whether family, friend, or neighbour.

I don't agree that the giving a friend or associate a souvenir (which is sometimes a food that is known to be especially good in that area) -- typically done here -- is at all the same as the action in the OP.

I carefully mentioned (more than once) that in the OPs post it would have been nice to offer "something" in return for the help. Didn't have to be cash, like I said ....

Yes, you did. And I mentioned in immediate response that gifts are fine in my opinion. The OP gave cash and that is what I, in every post was referring to and where our difference has been. So the fact that you repeatedly mentioned other things is irrelevant.

that's really nice, suggesting I had somehow abused the neighbor - hard to do when she wouldn't talk to ya.

I never suggested you abused anyone. You shouldn't put words in other people's mouths, no? I allowed for the possibility that you had somehow done something that was wrong or perceived to be. I'm sorry, i don't know you so I don't assume anything about you -- including that you are perfect and incapable of doing wrong.

And no, it's not at all hard to offend someone (particularly a Thai) --especially though not exclusively, inadvertently -- without them speaking to you. Moreover, any such transgression could have happened before the no gas money thing - that being a final straw.

[pete66]

It was someone else that first mentioned "Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing."

My mistake. I didn't realize "the greasing" was meant in that context and was not your term. I apologize.

Of course souvenirs / food from another province are "greasing" in the same way. Its just another social interaction, whether family, friend, or neighbour.

I don't agree that the giving a friend or associate a souvenir (which is sometimes a food that is known to be especially good in that area) -- typically done here -- is at all the same as the action in the OP.

I carefully mentioned (more than once) that in the OPs post it would have been nice to offer "something" in return for the help. Didn't have to be cash, like I said ....

Yes, you did. And I mentioned in immediate response that gifts are fine in my opinion. The OP gave cash and that is what I, in every post was referring to and where our difference has been. So the fact that you repeatedly mentioned other things is irrelevant.

that's really nice, suggesting I had somehow abused the neighbor - hard to do when she wouldn't talk to ya.

I never suggested you abused anyone. You shouldn't put words in other people's mouths, no? I allowed for the possibility that you had somehow done something that was wrong or perceived to be. I'm sorry, i don't know you so I don't assume anything about you -- including that you are perfect and incapable of doing wrong.

And no, it's not at all hard to offend someone (particularly a Thai) --especially though not exclusively, inadvertently -- without them speaking to you. Moreover, any such transgression could have happened before the no gas money thing - that being a final straw.

ok, I didn't want this to be a sour post. I live and learn in this country every day, seems I have much to learn. peace.

[SteeleJoe]

Peace.

[cobra]

Am I missing something here,

aside from possibly offending someone by offering compensation for assiatance,

The white elephant in the room, the op states he can't walk yet undertakes risky back-road treks, crossing rivers, etc,

Though he states he places trust in others, sitting in the middle of a river waiting to be rescued by a possible passerby,

No contingency planning, no viable self-rescue options, etc, all ingredients to disaster.

Edited August 29, 2011 by cobra

[SteeleJoe]

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way.

Just a comment relayed to further explain what I meant about how one might offend without meaning to:

Generally speaking and all other things being equal, I believe a Thai typically would repeatedly refuse the offer because they'd be too kreng jai. They might or might not eventually accept the kindness but if they did they would have been repeatedly and effusively thankful (more than just, "Fine thanks very much") during and after. And they would have not only offered to pay for gas but very soon after given some sort of gift.

But again, all of this is rather different from the OP.

[pete66]

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way.

Just a comment relayed to further explain what I meant about how one might offend without meaning to:

Generally speaking and all other things being equal, I believe a Thai typically would repeatedly refuse the offer because they'd be too kreng jai. They might or might not eventually accept the kindness but if they did they would have been repeatedly and effusively thankful (more than just, "Fine thanks very much") during and after. And they would have not only offered to pay for gas but very soon after given some sort of gift.

But again, all of this is rather different from the OP.

Your paragraph doesn't really make sense. You talk about a Thai repeatedly "refusing the offer" and then "not only offered to pay for gas but very soon after given some sort of gift"???

Are these the same people? Your paragraph suggests so. If not, please clarify so I understand what you are talking about.

Also, like I said, my gf did indeed give gifts afterwards. The only reason I didn't give anything to start was because I understood this wasn't the thing to do (when my gf said the restaurant owners who offered to take me originally were "after money" for the job).

[SteeleJoe]

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way.

Just a comment relayed to further explain what I meant about how one might offend without meaning to:

Generally speaking and all other things being equal, I believe a Thai typically would repeatedly refuse the offer because they'd be too kreng jai. They might or might not eventually accept the kindness but if they did they would have been repeatedly and effusively thankful (more than just, "Fine thanks very much") during and after. And they would have not only offered to pay for gas but very soon after given some sort of gift.

But again, all of this is rather different from the OP.

Your paragraph doesn't really make sense. You talk about a Thai repeatedly "refusing the offer" and then "not only offered to pay for gas but very soon after given some sort of gift"???

Are these the same people? Your paragraph suggests so. If not, please clarify so I understand what you are talking about.

Also, like I said, my gf did indeed give gifts afterwards. The only reason I didn't give anything to start was because I understood this wasn't the thing to do (when my gf said the restaurant owners who offered to take me originally were "after money" for the job).

It was 1 in the morning and I dashed it off before going to bed. But while it my not be well-written, it does make sense:

...a Thai typically would repeatedly refuse the offer because they'd be too kreng jai. They might or might not eventually accept the kindness but if they did...

Edited August 29, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[LJW]

Am I missing something here,

aside from possibly offending someone by offering compensation for assiatance,

The white elephant in the room, the op states he can't walk yet undertakes risky back-road treks, crossing rivers, etc,

Though he states he places trust in others, sitting in the middle of a river waiting to be rescued by a possible passerby,

No contingency planning, no viable self-rescue options, etc, all ingredients to disaster.

Yes, you're right, all ingredients to disaster. But it is MY disaster if it happens. I can't walk but I can drive. And I like a bit of Adventure in my life, too

And this is the first 'disaster' I have had in the last 10 years I haven't been able to walk, so it seems that I usually do take some precautions. If it were you that couldn't walk, how would you live your life?

[terminatorchiangmai]

Wouw great post .

I know this road well , have to go back soon with a off road motorbike

Last time we drove there a friend of mine had an accident , a friendly villager drove him to Phrao Hospital , when i offered him money he refused but looked very happy with the gesture.

What i try to say is that you can always offer money and its up to the people if they want to accept it.

This way you wont be called a ki niauw.

Edited August 30, 2011 by terminatorchiangmai

[T_Dog]

LJW... Enjoyed the story! Nothing like getting off the beaten path. I get up that way mountain biking and motorcycling occasionally so if you have a map or GPS coordinates of where the road starts, send them along. Always looking for new areas to explore.

[msg362]

Geeez...cannot say anything here......

I would prefer to not get the help then if it was expected of me to offer them money for a service they offered to help out with.....its called kindness and doing something for someone with no expectations in return....or have you lot forgotten such things ?? dam_n sure i have not and i am not that old either.

I agree with SJ

It's the way here. I have a Thai wife and always, if she gets help, she offers something, be it money or a small gift. Her mother just had an operation in hospital and she gave small gifts to the nurses and doctors involved. It seems that how it is here, it's a way of showing appreciation. I think the OP , who clearly understands the ways here, did it exactly right. A great 'Good News Story' Thanks, we need more of them!

[bifftastic]

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what I think sometimes happens (paternalism? or just a unconscious sense that everyone has price and wants it to be paid) with even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests something, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money...

Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

BTW

It's a nice thing but hardly surprising, is it? I've got many, many stories of Thais helping out - some in a really big ways.

I cannot speak for LJW, but I for one would have offered some token of appreciation in my own country as well. Where I come from, that is called "manners".

Furthermore, I think that LJW with more than 25 years in Thailand, and being a fluent Thai speaker, is quite able to judge the proper course of action in most situations here.

/ Priceless

me too, it's normal to offer money when someone you don't know helps you out. We call it 'a drink' "here, have a drink on me"

Again, up to them if they want to take it or not, but the offer is always there.

[Ulysses G.]

I would offer money to someone helping me anywhere - if I had it - and just offer profuse thanks otherwise.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[chokeonit]

Nice story and thank you for sharing. Just because you can't walk doesnt mean you can't go out for a little adventure, and you got a good story to go with it! Thats what adventures are all about!

Happy days!

[Dag]

1) Giving presents is quite different than giving cash.

2) Maintaining reciprocal relationship with a neighbor over a period of time is quite different from paying cash a stranger for their help in an emergency.

3) I'd be careful about assuming you can make such broad judgments about Thai people (irrespective of social standing, specific circumstance or other nuance) based on the actions of this one Thai woman in this one instance.

Cash offers are nasty.....you pay hookers, you dont give them chocolate cake.

[NancyL]

I learned this from watching my mother try to give money to a stranger who helped her out of a fix. The lady refused it, of course, and then my mother suggested she take the money and donate it at her church. The lady liked that idea and gladly took it. I've done the same thing several times (not here, but in the U.S.) and the helper always reconsiders and takes the money when I suggest they donate it to their church or a favorite charity. I've done it, in reverse, when people offered me money for helping them out. Makes me feel better about accepting the money and it prevents an ackward situation with the person offering the money.

I don't know how the Thai people would regard such an offer, but I certainly see money being donated at wats. Haven't been in the situation (yet) where I felt it appropriate to offer money to a Thai stranger for their kindness. Our Thai neighbor takes care of our plants when we're gone, but I know she loves her Leo and she always gladly accepts an offer of some bottles of Leo when we return. With neighbors, you maintain an on-going relationship and the offer of a gift of food or drink seems more appropriate.

[Dag]

Geeez...cannot say anything here......

I would prefer to not get the help then if it was expected of me to offer them money for a service they offered to help out with.....its called kindness and doing something for someone with no expectations in return....or have you lot forgotten such things ?? dam_n sure i have not and i am not that old either.

I agree with SJ

It's the way here. I have a Thai wife and always, if she gets help, she offers something, be it money or a small gift. Her mother just had an operation in hospital and she gave small gifts to the nurses and doctors involved. It seems that how it is here, it's a way of showing appreciation. I think the OP , who clearly understands the ways here, did it exactly right. A great 'Good News Story' Thanks, we need more of them!

No problem with gifts and offers of other help or assistance....its the cash part which is offensive.

I take a friend of my son out for outings every now and again, or he comes here and plays etc.

I also taught the 10yo boy to ride a 2 wheel bike over a week or 2, never wanted or expected anything in return, but his mum baked me cheese cakes and chocolate cakes.....they were all accepted obviously and hogged down by us all.....but she offered cash a couple of times for outings which I had to pay for the boy to enter places.....the amounts were small and I never accepted it, because they were small and we invited the kid.....however she offered because we spent money.....that is the only time it is acceptable in my book......gifts fine, cash not.

Another time I returned a guys mobile phone I found....turned out he was somewhat disabled and it was nice to give it back...he worked for a travel magazine company and he offered us half a dozen mags as a gift.....we accepted, if he had offered cash we would not have.

I also wonder why the OP would be out driving around in risky adventures when he cannot walk....sure do not limit your life because of injury or disability if you have one and can do these things....but take someone with you....if something happens in this situation you are expecting help from others.....in certain situations this can put others lives at risk....simple solution is do what you want, but take a friend....if nobody available....dont go downhill skiing with no legs all the way downhill and you cannot get back up.....dont expect someone to carry you when something goes wrong.....also crossing unkown rivers without knowing what is below is crazy....thing to do here is wait for someone else to cross in front that knows the river, or so you can see where the problem spots could be....

[Dante99]

Some of my most memorable gifts were received because cash was refused.

The appropriateness of offering cash depends on the situation and the way it can be offered. I do not have a fancy 4WD but I certainly would not accept 1000 Baht from a guy who can not walk, who got himself stuck in a river in the middle of nowhere and who I helped out. Would you? A great bottle of wine or Limoncello or a dinner for my family at a good restaurant I would be more likely to accept.

LJW- remember the motto of one of the world's finest organizations, "Be Prepared".

[richard_smith237]

Great refreshing story, there are many people out there who are always ready to help.

As other posters have pointed out: I did cringe slightly at the offer of money, perhaps a Thai would not perceive this in any negative manner and simply look at the honest intentions of trying to purvey thanks...

I'd be slightly offended if offered cash however.

That said, my wife had bump in Klong Toey. By the time I arrived a couple of local chaps were assisting. Slightly inebriated but trying their best to help I was thankful for their assistance. I gave them 1000B for their efforts.

I considered buying a bottle of whiskey and dropping it off the next day, but also considered that I might not find the same couple of guys again. They appeared to appreciate the money.

I would be significantly more careful of offending someone who appeared financially more stable. Perhaps in the instance of the Op. obtaining the guys contact details and getting some form of thank you present might be appreciated.

Some mentioned that because the Op stated he can't walk that he shouldn't be there... Not really fair. Where has the spirit of adventure gone ?

Edited August 30, 2011 by richard_smith237

[hedonist44]

Am I missing something here,

aside from possibly offending someone by offering compensation for assiatance,

The white elephant in the room, the op states he can't walk yet undertakes risky back-road treks, crossing rivers, etc,

Though he states he places trust in others, sitting in the middle of a river waiting to be rescued by a possible passerby,

No contingency planning, no viable self-rescue options, etc, all ingredients to disaster.

Yes, you're right, all ingredients to disaster. But it is MY disaster if it happens. I can't walk but I can drive. And I like a bit of Adventure in my life, too

And this is the first 'disaster' I have had in the last 10 years I haven't been able to walk, so it seems that I usually do take some precautions. If it were you that couldn't walk, how would you live your life?

"But it is MY disaster if it happens. I can't walk but I can drive. " Not even a good response I'm afraid. By getting your self into a pickle and needing the assistance of another to help you out of it, you are in fact dependent on having someone come to your assistance. Thus causing this person to abandon his plans of a nice afternoon in order to help you out of your situation. OK, so it only took a few minutes this time, but what if it had been more serious? So it's not only "Your Disaster". Please try to understand this. It's very fortunate that you were not injured and everything turned out well in the end, but please think about taking someone with you next time in the event this or even something more serious occurs. I'm sure none of us would want to read that someone has been seriously injured in what could have been avoided in the first place.I hope you take this posting in the respectful and concerned manner in which it was sent. Good luck and be well.

[NancyL]

It doesn't matter if you're disabled or not -- it just doesn't make sense to put yourself into a situation where you can't help yourself. Depending upon the kindness of strangers isn't a plan and it certainly isn't taking ownership for your own adventures.

Once I had a job in the U.S. where I drove over 1000 miles per week, all over Texas. I got bored with the routes and would sometimes try unfamilar roads or ones that were clearly labeled as unpaved roads on the map. I got myself stuck three times and after the third close call, I realized it was stupid to take risks. The guy who finally came along to help really creeped me out. This was before the era of mobile phones and depending on the kindness of strangers could take while plus it wasn't really safe for a woman in her 30s to be out alone, depending on the kindness of strangers!

You have to realize your limitations and develop a plan to work around them.

Edited August 30, 2011 by NancyL

[LJW]

Am I missing something here,

aside from possibly offending someone by offering compensation for assiatance,

The white elephant in the room, the op states he can't walk yet undertakes risky back-road treks, crossing rivers, etc,

Though he states he places trust in others, sitting in the middle of a river waiting to be rescued by a possible passerby,

No contingency planning, no viable self-rescue options, etc, all ingredients to disaster.

Yes, you're right, all ingredients to disaster. But it is MY disaster if it happens. I can't walk but I can drive. And I like a bit of Adventure in my life, too

And this is the first 'disaster' I have had in the last 10 years I haven't been able to walk, so it seems that I usually do take some precautions. If it were you that couldn't walk, how would you live your life?

"But it is MY disaster if it happens. I can't walk but I can drive. " Not even a good response I'm afraid. By getting your self into a pickle and needing the assistance of another to help you out of it, you are in fact dependent on having someone come to your assistance. Thus causing this person to abandon his plans of a nice afternoon in order to help you out of your situation. OK, so it only took a few minutes this time, but what if it had been more serious? So it's not only "Your Disaster". Please try to understand this. It's very fortunate that you were not injured and everything turned out well in the end, but please think about taking someone with you next time in the event this or even something more serious occurs. I'm sure none of us would want to read that someone has been seriously injured in what could have been avoided in the first place.I hope you take this posting in the respectful and concerned manner in which it was sent. Good luck and be well.

I like driving alone because I don't have to deal with anyone else... We can talk about conjecture with anything, but I think that I am always considerate of other drivers needs too. Which is one reason why I offered the money. But it is My disaster, but someone else offered to help me out. He didn't have to if he didn't want to help... I certainly appreciated his help

As I said, this is my first very minor 'disaster'. I made 6 river crossings, and 1 didn't work out so well, but maybe it did in the end. I have a new friend

Edited August 30, 2011 by LJW

[LJW]

One final point to all of those people who think I should not drive alone or whatever... It would be no different if i could walk. Still stuck, and no way to change that if I could walk... The only hassle for me was that I couldn't help him with his ropes

[Dag]

You could have with you, as you should when going to remotish areas and plan on river crossings where there is a very good possibility of getting stuck....a hand winch and ropes.....you could pull yourself out then......you simply should plan it better...not not do it, but do it better because of your disability.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

One final point to all of those people who think I should not drive alone or whatever... It would be no different if i could walk. Still stuck, and no way to change that if I could walk... The only hassle for me was that I couldn't help him with his ropes

I've had some run-ins with LJW on this forum but I would like to back him up on this one. More and more these days it seems that taking any kind of risk or embarking on any challenge remotely out of the ordinary is being frowned upon, especially in Western countries. But you can lead a totally vanilla life, all your life and never do anything out of the ordinary but then what? You might still be injured or killed in some freak accident, personally I would prefer it if there was nobody to blame but myself!

[LJW]

You could have with you, as you should when going to remotish areas and plan on river crossings where there is a very good possibility of getting stuck....a hand winch and ropes.....you could pull yourself out then......you simply should plan it better...not not do it, but do it better because of your disability.

I would not have gone if I knew about the river crossings, but only because of getting stuck. My disability had NOTHING to do with anything

[Dag]

I would not have gone if I knew about the river crossings, but only because of getting stuck. My disability had NOTHING to do with anything

It stopped you from helping yourself right ??

Like I have said, don't stop doing what you want to do, just do it smarter.

[Priceless]

You could have with you, as you should when going to remotish areas and plan on river crossings where there is a very good possibility of getting stuck....a hand winch and ropes.....you could pull yourself out then......you simply should plan it better...not not do it, but do it better because of your disability.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain, preferably in some detail, how a hand winch and some ropes would help a disabled man who cannot walk.

/ Priceless

[Dag]

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain, preferably in some detail, how a hand winch and some ropes would help a disabled man who cannot walk.

/ Priceless

Perhaps you should read again and try to comprehend the post I was replying to.

Priceless indeed.

[LJW]

Or in my example, how could a winch and rope help if I wasn't disabled. There was nothing in the area to attach anything to. My point is there was nothing I could do but wait for help. Good legs would not have helped me in the least.