Thais Still Not Reading Critically, Historian Says

[GazR]

I get around quite a bit and I can see that they are reading more, even if the quality may well be no better than before.

(There is no language barrier in my case, and I can say that there also seems to be a pretty good general awareness of national politics - probably Thaksin's only positive (albeit unintended) legacy - and people are willing to air their views publicly again in the markets now that the Red brigades have stopped burning things down and beating people up. What people seem most apprehensive about (I know I am) is that these same people can be reactivated as brainwashed violent revolutionaries again given the right circumstances (which can always be manufactured) and the right signals (to which they are already primed to react again). So right now there's an uneasy peace which doesn't fool anyone.)

But when talking to senior university students about modern education is like talking to virgins about sex (don't ask) it means there is an awful lot of catching up to do - maybe too much.

And when senior Interior Ministry officials react to proposals by the Anand committee for gradual decentralization as if the heavens would fall, well you can see how entrenched the conservative forces are.

Too bad Thaksin doesn't seem interested in spending any political capital on this either, but I guess he will get around to tweaking the old "CEO-Governors" play soon enough.

[connor6063]

Well this is true. When i was attending a public thai highschool in choburi nobody read books. Even my girlfriend who was raised in a wealthy family and went thru private school up until international university and she has never read a book before. This is more about education than reading but thai schools dont do anything to be honest.

[housepainter]

There is far to much that is hopelessly lost with Thai society that it will never recover, catch up or achieve.

I find the place embarrassing and the more you know the worse it gets.

When I read the opening of this piece I immediately thought that critical thinking was the key - not reading. Then I find that is the point.

Compounding this, which makes the whole exercise useless is the fact that ultimately there is no freedom of expression in Thailand. A subject is taboo. Therefore how can you ever discuss the sum of the whole?

Personally, leave them to rot. Or better still - leave. Otherwise their health care, media, banality, corruption will get you in the end.

I simply grew tired of the place and left.

Left.

Left them to it.

Let them wreck themselves and not drag others down.

Afterall, most of us came from the first world and not running from but going to. Not all. There are the Thai defenders who can't go back. It makes their arguments sterile but still they shout loudest.

Sad but true.

Edited August 30, 2011 by housepainter

[Jingthing]

Doesn't seem to be in the national DNA of Thailand. It is what it is. Don't expect miracles.

[osiboy]

Doesn't seem to be in the national DNA of Thailand. It is what it is. Don't expect miracles.

according to TAT we should !

Edited August 30, 2011 by osiboy

[tominbkk]

I've had my Kindle now for several months and use it all the time when I have a spare moment and don't want to fill my brain with internet stuff from my iPad. Out of many many Thai people who have seen me reading from it, only one person asked me what it is, but wasn't curious about it after I showed them a 30 second demo. Everybody else, once they see it is just black and white text, gets this 'nah bua' look on their face and turn their attention elsewhere. Ebooks will never be popular here, unless they can get all their imported Japanese/Korean cartoons on it.

Edited August 30, 2011 by tominbkk

[osiboy]

Your point makes no sense unless you believe Thailand chose to be located in this region of the world as you would be doing having sight and choosing to attend a blind school. Below is a list of countries in SE Asia and their Literacy Rates

Singapore 96%

Brunei 95%

Thailand 94%

Philippines 93%

Malaysia 92%

Indonesia 92%

Burma 90%

Vietnam 90%

Cambodia 76%

Laos 69%

East Timor 50%

As for being less critical readers ... this is an Asian thing that is not at all restricted to Thailand. Different cultures, different populations and different ways of doing things. Some cultures are known for producing great inventors and artists while others are known for producing scientists. China is a perfect example of where their is less critical thought but look at where they stand globally now..

Different strokes for different folks but they all have a part in this global economy.

Good to known these "Literacy Rates", that you probably found on the Unesco website... I would have guess these just 2/3% lower, as not everyone agree on the unesco methods.... But whatever.

My real point is I think China is a perfect exemple of a knowledge, critical mind unbalance within the population, and only a small part of China "stands out".

Nisa , you seem to be missing the point , once again,...its not about literacy rates , and the fact that you fail to see this just goes to prove the point ......... its about failing to open up and free the mind becouse of out dated literature and the fact that it is always/can only be interperated in one way , and so can not or does not have any recourse or is ever questioned,..its just accepted ,........like a policy ,... and thais just seem to happily go along with it ,......... its not open to question so to speak , the best example i can think of is that although thailands literacy may be higher than cambodia, ..the thai IQ is lower , .............that says it all really

Edited August 30, 2011 by osiboy

[MaxYakov]

Literacy --> Comprehension --> Thought --> Individualism

Edited August 30, 2011 by MaxYakov

[MaxYakov]

Ebooks will never be popular here, unless they can get all their imported Japanese/Korean cartoons on it.

This will happen. But will it be just another opportunity for bootlegging?

Edited August 31, 2011 by MaxYakov

[ccarbaugh]

"Thai education must stop teaching one-dimensional truth or singular truth but must teach students to search for the truth by themselves from various dimensions of truth, from various contexts where the truths are situated," he wrote.

Straight common sense but a proverbial can of worms in LOS.

In order to fix a problem, one must first identify that a problem exists, which is why critical thinking is so very important. A society which believes in 'mai pen rai', or the automatic wisdom of poo-yais & hero figures, therefore misses-out on chances to make things better.

If you can't admit, that it might be broke, then nobody will even try to fix it !

If only more Thais came home, having learned this lesson whilst working or studying abroad, this cultural-message might be spread quicker. But many seem to want to remain elsewhere, despite the faults which other countries also have, that's Thailand's loss.

well said and so true...

All correct!

[AjarnPasa]

Does anyone have a link to the full text of Nidhi Eiawsriwong's report?

Would be interested in reading the whole thing.

Ta

[Nisa]

Your point makes no sense unless you believe Thailand chose to be located in this region of the world as you would be doing having sight and choosing to attend a blind school. Below is a list of countries in SE Asia and their Literacy Rates

Singapore 96%

Brunei 95%

Thailand 94%

Philippines 93%

Malaysia 92%

Indonesia 92%

Burma 90%

Vietnam 90%

Cambodia 76%

Laos 69%

East Timor 50%

As for being less critical readers ... this is an Asian thing that is not at all restricted to Thailand. Different cultures, different populations and different ways of doing things. Some cultures are known for producing great inventors and artists while others are known for producing scientists. China is a perfect example of where their is less critical thought but look at where they stand globally now..

Different strokes for different folks but they all have a part in this global economy.

Good to known these "Literacy Rates", that you probably found on the Unesco website... I would have guess these just 2/3% lower, as not everyone agree on the unesco methods.... But whatever.

My real point is I think China is a perfect exemple of a knowledge, critical mind unbalance within the population, and only a small part of China "stands out".

Nisa , you seem to be missing the point , once again,...its not about literacy rates , and the fact that you fail to see this just goes to prove the point ......... its about failing to open up and free the mind becouse of out dated literature and the fact that it is always/can only be interperated in one way , and so can not or does not have any recourse or is ever questioned,..its just accepted ,........like a policy ,... and thais just seem to happily go along with it ,......... its not open to question so to speak , the best example i can think of is that although thailands literacy may be higher than cambodia, ..the thai IQ is lower , .............that says it all really

Literacy, reading comprehension, reading critically are all tied together.

If you cannot read my entire post then then you fail to comprehend what I am saying and are making critical judgement based on assumption and incorrect information from what is being written.

The OP was not about thinking critically but about being a critical reader. Asians (not just Thais) are not like SOME westerners who question authority or what they are told, let alone read. Being from the US I can also tell you the majority of people there pretty much are the same and why you see the country in the state it is in now.

Being critical of what you read in the West is often simply a matter of believing what you want to believe and discounting what doesn't fit your believes. Kind of like your reply to me in being convinced of my "missing the point" and being so critical of what I wrote that you failed to actually read or comprehend all of it ... clearly my post also addressed 'the point" of the opinions in the OP.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Nisa

[maidu]

Yes, I also have noticed that Thais don't read books. However, I've seen Burmese treading books, when visiting there. Yet another thing Thais can learn from their Burmese neighbors, besides how to take charge of their dogs.

Thais also have the concentration of canaries. Those familiar with shopping in Thailand know that every time at a counter to ask a question or purchase something, if a queue jumping Thai blurts something out, or puts their purchase item down, the Thai shop worker will inevitably deal with the queue jumper. 100% of the time. Not once in 1000's of times, have I ever seen a Thai shop worker say to a queue jumper, "please wait a moment, I'm dealing with someone already." That could partly explain why Thais don't read books - perhaps they don't have the mental facilities to focus enough.

Many of my most enjoyable moments, since I first started reading, have been while reading real books. Few Thais will ever know that type of satisfaction.

Judging from the condition of the main library in my adopted town of Chiang Rai, I'd say Thai libraries are in sorry shape. Perhaps if the selection of good books were greater, popular interest would bloom. The library here has few books, and they look generally stultifying.

I asked a 7 year old Thai boy (with Thai parents) which was more difficult, 'learning to read English, or learning to read Thai?' Right away he said learning to read Thai was more difficult. Food for thought.

- - - - - - -

At the moment, I don't care what they read, even critical reading, if only I could see more Thais actually holding a real book and not a 20 baht comic book with Korean or Japanese characters. Many times I pass people at fruit stalls or in markets, just sitting looking blank. Trouble is, as other posters have mentioned, most are poorer people that have trouble reading,concentrating etc. They were never encouraged to read when growing up. Sad really.

agree

[Nisa]

Does anyone have a link to the full text of Nidhi Eiawsriwong's report?

Would be interested in reading the whole thing.

Ta

It is not a report but simply a paper/Thesis written by a historian that deals with the way Thais have learned and communicated through history.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Nisa

[osiboy]

Your point makes no sense unless you believe Thailand chose to be located in this region of the world as you would be doing having sight and choosing to attend a blind school. Below is a list of countries in SE Asia and their Literacy Rates

Singapore 96%

Brunei 95%

Thailand 94%

Philippines 93%

Malaysia 92%

Indonesia 92%

Burma 90%

Vietnam 90%

Cambodia 76%

Laos 69%

East Timor 50%

As for being less critical readers ... this is an Asian thing that is not at all restricted to Thailand. Different cultures, different populations and different ways of doing things. Some cultures are known for producing great inventors and artists while others are known for producing scientists. China is a perfect example of where their is less critical thought but look at where they stand globally now..

Different strokes for different folks but they all have a part in this global economy.

Good to known these "Literacy Rates", that you probably found on the Unesco website... I would have guess these just 2/3% lower, as not everyone agree on the unesco methods.... But whatever.

My real point is I think China is a perfect exemple of a knowledge, critical mind unbalance within the population, and only a small part of China "stands out".

Nisa , you seem to be missing the point , once again,...its not about literacy rates , and the fact that you fail to see this just goes to prove the point ......... its about failing to open up and free the mind becouse of out dated literature and the fact that it is always/can only be interperated in one way , and so can not or does not have any recourse or is ever questioned,..its just accepted ,........like a policy ,... and thais just seem to happily go along with it ,......... its not open to question so to speak , the best example i can think of is that although thailands literacy may be higher than cambodia, ..the thai IQ is lower , .............that says it all really

Literacy, reading comprehension, reading critically are all tied together.

If you cannot read my entire post then then you fail to comprehend what I am saying and are making critical judgement based on assumption and incorrect information from what is being written.

The OP was not about thinking critically but about being a critical reader. Asians (not just Thais) are not like SOME westerners who question authority or what they are told, let alone read. Being from the US I can also tell you the majority of people there pretty much are the same and why you see the country in the state it is in now.

Being critical of what you read in the West is often simply a matter of believing what you want to believe and discounting what doesn't fit your believes. Kind of like your reply to me in being convinced of my "missing the point" and being so critical of what I wrote that you failed to actually read or comprehend all of it ... clearly my post also addressed 'the point" of the opinions in the OP.

If you wer'nt missing the point,....why the list of literacy in SE Asia ??...................its irrelevent !

[DTiger]

If you wer'nt missing the point,....why the list of literacy in SE Asia ??...................its irrelevent !

Well, of course if you read all this too quickly it may be irrelevant. But would you imagine critical reading without literacy?

[Nisa]

Good to known these "Literacy Rates", that you probably found on the Unesco website... I would have guess these just 2/3% lower, as not everyone agree on the unesco methods.... But whatever.

My real point is I think China is a perfect exemple of a knowledge, critical mind unbalance within the population, and only a small part of China "stands out".

Nisa , you seem to be missing the point , once again,...its not about literacy rates , and the fact that you fail to see this just goes to prove the point ......... its about failing to open up and free the mind becouse of out dated literature and the fact that it is always/can only be interperated in one way , and so can not or does not have any recourse or is ever questioned,..its just accepted ,........like a policy ,... and thais just seem to happily go along with it ,......... its not open to question so to speak , the best example i can think of is that although thailands literacy may be higher than cambodia, ..the thai IQ is lower , .............that says it all really

Literacy, reading comprehension, reading critically are all tied together.

If you cannot read my entire post then then you fail to comprehend what I am saying and are making critical judgement based on assumption and incorrect information from what is being written.

The OP was not about thinking critically but about being a critical reader. Asians (not just Thais) are not like SOME westerners who question authority or what they are told, let alone read. Being from the US I can also tell you the majority of people there pretty much are the same and why you see the country in the state it is in now.

Being critical of what you read in the West is often simply a matter of believing what you want to believe and discounting what doesn't fit your believes. Kind of like your reply to me in being convinced of my "missing the point" and being so critical of what I wrote that you failed to actually read or comprehend all of it ... clearly my post also addressed 'the point" of the opinions in the OP.

If you wer'nt missing the point,....why the list of literacy in SE Asia ??...................its irrelevent !

You are proving my points in your replies as well as answering your own questions.

[happysanook]

Top answers when asked what my students' favorite thing to do is:

1) Sleep

2) Play game

3) Play facebook

Rarely does it stray. Sometimes we get "sing a song" and very rarely "read" which usually refers to "cartoon".

Once in a great while (1 out of 30 or worse) will get "art/draw/paint".

Reports/essay type work whether in Thai or English is always straight copy and pasted from the internet. With a couple pictures thrown in. Hey, it LOOKS good....

[maidu]

Top answers when asked what my students' favorite thing to do is:

1) Sleep

2) Play game

3) Play facebook

Rarely does it stray. Sometimes we get "sing a song" and very rarely "read" which usually refers to "cartoon".

Once in a great while (1 out of 30 or worse) will get "art/draw/paint".

Reports/essay type work whether in Thai or English is always straight copy and pasted from the internet. With a couple pictures thrown in. Hey, it LOOKS good....

They must enjoy doing something else, as evidenced by high teenage pregnancy and STD rate.

[AjarnPasa]

Does anyone have a link to the full text of Nidhi Eiawsriwong's report?

Would be interested in reading the whole thing.

Ta

It is not a report but simply a paper/Thesis written by a historian that deals with the way Thais have learned and communicated through history.

OK fair enough. In that case: Does anyone have a link to (or know where one could get hold of) the full text of Khun Nidhi's paper/thesis?

[DTiger]

OK fair enough. In that case: Does anyone have a link to (or know where one could get hold of) the full text of Khun Nidhi's paper/thesis?

As usual, "The Nation" does not provide any kind of link, neither about the author, nor the "paper".... not even about the place this author was talking.... Not talking about the fact that it could have been only in Thai.

I'd be glad too, if anyone could help us to find anything about this!

[GazR]

Top answers when asked what my students' favorite thing to do is:

1) Sleep

2) Play game

3) Play facebook

Rarely does it stray. Sometimes we get "sing a song" and very rarely "read" which usually refers to "cartoon".

Once in a great while (1 out of 30 or worse) will get "art/draw/paint".

Reports/essay type work whether in Thai or English is always straight copy and pasted from the internet. With a couple pictures thrown in. Hey, it LOOKS good....

They must enjoy doing something else, as evidenced by high teenage pregnancy and STD rate.

They also dress well on a budget, have a lively a sense of humor, are famously tolerant of foreign ways, etc. etc.

[SteeleJoe]

It always seems quite strange when you hear of Thais not being critical and yet at the same time you have people demonstrating all the time, discussing every political issue and challenging many mores of Thai life.

It always amuses me to read such things too without any mention of the differences of eastern and western philosophy for which any discussion on subjects such as this are needed to be fully understood.

I think maybe you are not aware of another definition of "critical" and one hat is in use in the OP (and relevant to the current discussion):

Characterized by careful, exact evaluation and judgment

Analytic / Critical thinking -- an ability and habit the Thais are widely acknowledged (including by innumerable Thai scholars and ordinary folk) to be sorely lacking in -- is not a reference to people who analyze and complain. And "critical reading" has even less to do with what you are talking about (other than the fact that if there were more of it going on, perhaps there would be more demonstrations but about rather differnt things).

And is it your contention that Dr.Nidhi Eiawsriwong is not in possession of sufficient cultural understanding? Or is it a post preceding your post that shows such a lack? Please point it out. (Please none of the moral relativism <deleted>. Some facts please: yes, there are differences. This is self-evident or this thread wouldn't exist. One of the differences -- and its arguably lmentable manifestations -- is what is being discussed.)

[SteeleJoe]

No doubt that there needs to be improvement here and globally but the literacy rate in Thailand is near the same as Hong Kong and Singapore. It is also significantly higher than all the neighboring countries.

Did you not read the OP? Surely you are smart enough to not have so widely missed the point if you had.

[AjarnPasa]

OK fair enough. In that case: Does anyone have a link to (or know where one could get hold of) the full text of Khun Nidhi's paper/thesis?

As usual, "The Nation" does not provide any kind of link, neither about the author, nor the "paper".... not even about the place this author was talking.... Not talking about the fact that it could have been only in Thai.

I'd be glad too, if anyone could help us to find anything about this!

I contacted TK Park to ask whether they had held a copy of the paper after the conference.

They said the workshop happened 3-4 years ago and the paper was subsequently destroyed when the building was burned down. TK Park was on the sixth floor of Central World.

I'll keep looking. Anyone know which University Nidhi is/was attached to?

[DTiger]

OK fair enough. In that case: Does anyone have a link to (or know where one could get hold of) the full text of Khun Nidhi's paper/thesis?

As usual, "The Nation" does not provide any kind of link, neither about the author, nor the "paper".... not even about the place this author was talking.... Not talking about the fact that it could have been only in Thai.

I'd be glad too, if anyone could help us to find anything about this!

I contacted TK Park to ask whether they had held a copy of the paper after the conference.

They said the workshop happened 3-4 years ago and the paper was subsequently destroyed when the building was burned down. TK Park was on the sixth floor of Central World.

I'll keep looking. Anyone know which University Nidhi is/was attached to?

Woo It was really fresh news from "The Nation" then

I am wondering - I am still dreaming - if the journalist has any kind of specific information to write about this 3-4 years later, if he did just read it maybe!

[Nisa]

No doubt that there needs to be improvement here and globally but the literacy rate in Thailand is near the same as Hong Kong and Singapore. It is also significantly higher than all the neighboring countries.

Did you not read the OP? Surely you are smart enough to not have so widely missed the point if you had.

To be critical of my posts then you would need to be literate to actually be able to read and comprehend them instead of taking one sentence and believing this is all I have said. Clearly you are demonstrating literacy and reading comprehension are crucial if one is to be a critical reader.

[Nisa]

OK fair enough. In that case: Does anyone have a link to (or know where one could get hold of) the full text of Khun Nidhi's paper/thesis?

As usual, "The Nation" does not provide any kind of link, neither about the author, nor the "paper".... not even about the place this author was talking.... Not talking about the fact that it could have been only in Thai.

I'd be glad too, if anyone could help us to find anything about this!

I contacted TK Park to ask whether they had held a copy of the paper after the conference.

They said the workshop happened 3-4 years ago and the paper was subsequently destroyed when the building was burned down. TK Park was on the sixth floor of Central World.

I'll keep looking. Anyone know which University Nidhi is/was attached to?

Woo It was really fresh news from "The Nation" then

I am wondering - I am still dreaming - if the journalist has any kind of specific information to write about this 3-4 years later, if he did just read it maybe!

One would hope that the reporter (Pravit Rojanaphruk) of this story would have a copy but somehow I have a feeling he doesn't based on his article which really says nothing to back up any of these claims except for speaking about past history ... which one would expect since this is based on a Historian's view. Interesting too is he calls him a "prominent historian" but I can't find his name anywhere on the net except related to this article .. nor does it appear his paper was published anywhere at least of any significance where it would be quoted in English and found using Google.

[SteeleJoe]

No doubt that there needs to be improvement here and globally but the literacy rate in Thailand is near the same as Hong Kong and Singapore. It is also significantly higher than all the neighboring countries.

Did you not read the OP? Surely you are smart enough to not have so widely missed the point if you had.

To be critical of my posts then you would need to be literate to actually be able to read and comprehend them instead of taking one sentence and believing this is all I have said. Clearly you are demonstrating literacy and reading comprehension are crucial if one is to be a critical reader.

1) I'm not at all sure you know how "critical" is being used in the OP or this discussion. it appears not (hint: it has more than one meaning).

2) You are telling me nothing that I don't know and nothing that contradicts anything I've said.

3) I have not taken one sentence and believe this is all you have said. I have however noted to myself how that one sentence -- and all that goes with it -- indicates that you have widely missed the point.

4) Your not so subtle insult is completely gratuitous ad unfounded in anything I've said (but so characteristic of you to go ad hominem).

Here's another hint: this is not the first time I've seen you to be less than critical in your thinking re: Thailand. (and I don't mean being willing to criticize)

One more clue:

"Students are taught to carefully read, to pay attention to every word, more than to comprehend the text and its underlying thinking process which led to the production of the text… While Thai schools teach students to read, they teach it in a manner which existed prior to introduction of the printing press. And many Thais continue to read in that manner," he wrote, noting that qualitative education reform was needed."

If your reading comprehension skills are up to scratch then you can see that the article is clearly not about a lack of ability to read. (Indeed it explicitly cites Thai students being taught to read.)

[AjarnPasa]

OK fair enough. In that case: Does anyone have a link to (or know where one could get hold of) the full text of Khun Nidhi's paper/thesis?

As usual, "The Nation" does not provide any kind of link, neither about the author, nor the "paper".... not even about the place this author was talking.... Not talking about the fact that it could have been only in Thai.

I'd be glad too, if anyone could help us to find anything about this!

I contacted TK Park to ask whether they had held a copy of the paper after the conference.

They said the workshop happened 3-4 years ago and the paper was subsequently destroyed when the building was burned down. TK Park was on the sixth floor of Central World.

I'll keep looking. Anyone know which University Nidhi is/was attached to?

Woo It was really fresh news from "The Nation" then

I am wondering - I am still dreaming - if the journalist has any kind of specific information to write about this 3-4 years later, if he did just read it maybe!

My guess is that he wrote it at the time of the conference, then it sat in Sutichai's in-tray until Sutichai had a space he needed to fill. Pravit seems to have a fair amount of integrity and to refer to the conference as having happened last week seems an unlikely slip if it in fact happened years ago. Obviously the subs didn't pick that up before it went to press.

I might see if I can find Pravit's email and see what he says.