For awhile there Thanksgiving meant a day to give thanks for the bounty we have been blessed with.

Below is Pres. George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation of 1789.  Could it be that thanks was being given to God rather than Indians?!?  I wonder why school children aren't taught that?

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I have always thought that Thanksgiving was for landing safely in the new lands, and to God, of course

no indians were ever thanked as far as I know

as for Xmas, it is great in CM

the commercialisation is just a joke and the best place to be is in a bar

The way I got it the Indians saved their asses the first winter. The next year at harvest time they invited the Indians to share in the bountiful harvest and to give thanks to the Lord because they were religious people and they believed God's hand guided things. I think it later evloved into a ceremonial feast to celebrate the bounty generated from efforts put forth during the year and to give thanks for being blessed with the opportunity to generate a bountiful harvest.

Below is Pres. George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation of 1789.  Could it be that thanks was being given to God rather than Indians?!?  I wonder why school children aren't taught that?

OK, so what is your point? Is it a critique on the grade-school curriculum in the United States? Please do not confuse the history of Thanksgiving with the meaning of Thanksgiving. Both are taught in most schools.

As far as I know, every U.S President since Abraham Lincoln in 1863 has issued an annual Thanksgiving Day Proclamation. (I'm not sure when the formal pardoning of the turkey began?) None probably thank "the Indians" because the point is to be thankful for the things that we have (family, friends, health, peace, comfort, food) that make our lives wonderful, and not to thank specific individuals or groups.

While that first Thanksgiving was in 1621 in what was then called Plimouth (now Plymouth, Massachussetts), the first written, recorded Thanksgiving Proclamation in 1676 is a bit negative with regards to the local indigenous population as it mentions the , "...present Warr with the Heathen Natives of this land..." and praying that "...our Enemies are in any measure disappointed or destroyed..."

Of that original tribe, the Wampanoag, there were 12,000 in 1600. By the time the Pilgrims landed in 1620 there were 2,000, as a result of plague/epidemic. At present there are ~ 3,000 Wampanoag in southeastern Massachusetts, with an especially active community on Martha's Vineyard.

It's hard to hate christmas in a place where the girls look this good in Santa hats.

I was in Big-C today and noticed that they've already got the Christ-mas trees up for sale. Have they no shame? Here it is, not even Thanksgiving yet, it's barely past Halloween even! A few years ago they'd wait until after Thanksgiving. I can even remember a time when you'd be hard pressed to find anything Christ-massy in the shops. If anyone ever goes looking for the roots of Thailand's social ills I think they should find no better place to start than with the loss of the Spirit of Christ-mas.

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I have seen shops in Australia that sell Easter eggs and Xmas decorations all year round. Shop is called "Crazy Clarkes" I am sure you could buy same here anytime. Oh and there is a fastfood restaurant at MBK called "Santa's" . Thailand seems to be getting more into Xmas each year but mostly for the pretty lights on the shopping centres and those Xmas carols. I stayed at a small hotel "P R Place" Pratunam and they had a music chime playing till the end of January plus a sparkling xmas tree I guess the spirit of Xmas has a different meaning for everybody.

I forgot to mention they are already getting setup for Beer Festival time at Central World Plaza guys (Singha & Heinekin) . But looks a bit of a mess with all the construction going on. Must be close to Xmas already 5555

I have seen shops in Australia that sell Easter eggs and Xmas decorations all year round. Shop is called "Crazy Clarkes"

In New England (ducking ) there is a chain of stores called The Christmas Tree Shop which is open all year. I think it might have started out with more of a Christmas only focus, and maybe was just open for a month or two before and after Christmas, but it has morphed into more of a home furnishings store, albeit one with a decidedly holiday focus. Their tagline, "Don't you just love a bargain" is easily one of the top ten most annoying when heard on the radio or TV, and likely the main reason I've only ever driven by their shops. But in the end it is just a shop and does not portend the end of civilization, nor would a rational person consider the existence of such a shop to be the root cause of the social ills plaguing the northeastern United States.

They are even trying to put religion into Christmas

Below is Pres. George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation of 1789.  Could it be that thanks was being given to God rather than Indians?!?  I wonder why school children aren't taught that?

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I have always thought that Thanksgiving was for landing safely in the new lands, and to God, of course

no indians were ever thanked as far as I know

as for Xmas, it is great in CM

the commercialisation is just a joke and the best place to be is in a bar

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What part of CM is in Malaysia then ?

I was in Big-C today and noticed that they've already got the Christ-mas trees up for sale. Have they no shame? Here it is, not even Thanksgiving yet, it's barely past Halloween even! A few years ago they'd wait until after Thanksgiving. I can even remember a time when you'd be hard pressed to find anything Christ-massy in the shops. If anyone ever goes looking for the roots of Thailand's social ills I think they should find no better place to start than with the loss of the Spirit of Christ-mas.

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The greed of Thailand is, I agree, horrible.

But they learned it all from us.

I was in Big-C today and noticed that they've already got the Christ-mas trees up for sale. Have they no shame? Here it is, not even Thanksgiving yet, it's barely past Halloween even! A few years ago they'd wait until after Thanksgiving. I can even remember a time when you'd be hard pressed to find anything Christ-massy in the shops. If anyone ever goes looking for the roots of Thailand's social ills I think they should find no better place to start than with the loss of the Spirit of Christ-mas.

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well its better than at home where they shout in your face ARE YOU FEELING CHRISSMASSY YET? From October with the usual suspects of Slade, Wham and Band Aid playing over the store radio.

15 days of decoration and promotion thats all they should be allowed. Maybe then it might get back to the original feeling of excitement we had when we were young rather than the total commercial MUST BUY NOW! Only 40 days to go! feeling its got.

Bah humbug.

I like Christmas but have noticed that the Christians are hi-jacking it and trying to make it into a religious festival!!!

Good one.. The thing is though, that is exactly what the Christians did... Look at the Christmas paraphernalia and the time of year.

The Christmas tree? Yes, let me tell you, during Christmas time in Israel around the time Jesus was born, the snow lay thick and heavy on the branches, and the children were all starry-eyed with rosy cheeks in the cold crisp air anticipating the sound of sleighbells.

The turkey/ham? Well, the philistines have always loved their pork...

Christmas was a successful hijacking of an ancient pagan festival in honour of the Midwinter solstice celebrated all over Europe - Yule tide.

Bring on the mead. :D

Below is Pres. George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation of 1789.  Could it be that thanks was being given to God rather than Indians?!?  I wonder why school children aren't taught that?

OK, so what is your point? Is it a critique on the grade-school curriculum in the United States? Please do not confuse the history of Thanksgiving with the meaning of Thanksgiving. Both are taught in most schools.

As far as I know, every U.S President since Abraham Lincoln in 1863 has issued an annual Thanksgiving Day Proclamation. (I'm not sure when the formal pardoning of the turkey began?) None probably thank "the Indians" because the point is to be thankful for the things that we have (family, friends, health, peace, comfort, food) that make our lives wonderful, and not to thank specific individuals or groups.

While that first Thanksgiving was in 1621 in what was then called Plimouth (now Plymouth, Massachussetts), the first written, recorded Thanksgiving Proclamation in 1676 is a bit negative with regards to the local indigenous population as it mentions the , "...present Warr with the Heathen Natives of this land..." and praying that "...our Enemies are in any measure disappointed or destroyed..."

Of that original tribe, the Wampanoag, there were 12,000 in 1600. By the time the Pilgrims landed in 1620 there were 2,000, as a result of plague/epidemic. At present there are ~ 3,000 Wampanoag in southeastern Massachusetts, with an especially active community on Martha's Vineyard.

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WOW! You mean that the Pilgrim Fathers sailed from Plymouth, England and landed in Plymouth, USA! Now what are the odds of THAT happening?

"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson

Along the lines of Xmas confusion, my mate has a good story from Christmas shopping in Tokyo in the early nineties.

In the middle of one of the malls he visited, the main decoration was a plastic six metre high massive Santa, crucified.

Here in the States the X-mas stuff comes out with the Halloween stuff. America, biggere, better, faster, more!

Along the lines of Xmas confusion, my mate has a good story from Christmas shopping in Tokyo in the early nineties.

In the middle of one of the malls he visited, the main decoration was a plastic six metre high massive Santa, crucified.

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That is awsome, I hope he got a picture that. I would love to see the look on some of the Bible beaters of America when they see that.

I've not read every reply, so this question may/maynot have already been asked, but do Thai's celebrate christmas??

I've not read every reply, so this question may/maynot have already been asked, but do Thai's celebrate christmas??

Only because it is a western thing. You wont see any xmas tress or pressies out in the boonies

I've not read every reply, so this question may/maynot have already been asked, but do Thai's celebrate christmas??

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Well they do love a party. Any excuse will do.

I've not read every reply, so this question may/maynot have already been asked, but do Thai's celebrate christmas??

Only because it is a western thing. You wont see any xmas tress or pressies out in the boonies

Not a lot of snow or mistletoe either...

We went to a small restaurant in an agricultural area in Korat the other day. They had a two meter high Christmas tree with dozens of presents underneath. They also had half a dozen Poinsettia plants and a bunch of lovely paper stars hanging outside. All quite tastefully done and not a farang, except me, in sight.

I've not read every reply, so this question may/maynot have already been asked, but do Thai's celebrate christmas??

Only because it is a western thing. You wont see any xmas tress or pressies out in the boonies

Not a lot of snow or mistletoe either...

I've never seen snow in Australia at xmas either.

Wow, never thought they would celebrate Christmas... Well, I've just added one more thing on my "to do list, before I die" I've gotta see a Thai Santa, that one surely is worth a few laughs... Does he still say "ho, ho, ho"? If he does, I bet he cannot believe his luck when he gets more than what he bargained for on his knee