E.E.A. Advice Needed Now Please. Thanks

[scorpio]

my friend is due to fly today sat 3rd sept 2011. he is going to thailand to apply for an EEA family permit visa for his thai wife. he has a full valid 10 year uk passport. though he only has a 6 month irish passport , as when he applied to irish passport office 1 week ago they did not have time to process his passport in time for his flight today so they issued him with a temporary 6 month irish passport. bearing in mind he flies today and will only get to vfs offices in bkk in a few days or thereabouts, will , or can they refuse him to apply for eea permit as he will only have around 5 months and 2 weeks remaining on his irish passport .

he is bringing his wife from thailand to live in belfast / uk under eea rules. he is not going to live in ireland .

which passport does he submit irish or uk ?

can they refuse him to apply as he only has a validity of under 6 months on his irish passport ?

is there anyone in bkk he can go see about this if he does have a problem ?

THANKS any advice much appreciated .

[Eff1n2ret]

If he is from Northern Ireland and has never lived in the Republic or any other state in the European Union his dual nationality no longer avails him for the purpose of getting an EEA Family Permit for his wife. The European Court has moved the goalposts - see this page (second column):-

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2011:186:0005:0005:EN:PDF

It's quite recent, so it's not clear from the UKVisas website what instructions ECOs now have - best to check with the Embassy, although given that an EEA family permit application is free, perhaps the quickest way to find out is by applying.

[Basil B]

Found this, not much help.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunationalsschemes/eeafamilypermit#22947092

EUN2.16 Can family members of dual British / Irish nationals qualify for an EEA family permit?

This guidance is under review due to a case being referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (formerly ECJ).

Please refer to ECCCAT for guidance.

Wounder if it is allowed how long before British Nationals go to the CoJotEU claiming racial discrimination by having to fork out outrageously high fees for there spouses?

[7by7]

Basil, there is no discrimination involved. The EEA freedom of movement rights of EEA nationals and their family members apply to all EEA nationals and all EEA member states.

But they do not apply if the EEA national is living in the EEA state of which they are also a national.

So, if applying to bring a non-EEA national family member to live in the country where one is a national then that country's immigration rules, procedures and fees apply. It is only where the EEA national is living in another EEA country that the EEA regulations would apply.

So, for example, a British national living in Spain can use the EEA regulations to have their non-EEA national spouse join them, but a Spanish national would have to apply under the Spanish rules and pay the Spanish fee.

If I've read Eff1n2ret's link correctly it seems to be saying that someone who holds dual British and Irish nationality can only use their Irish nationality to apply under the EEA regulations for a family member to join them in the UK if they, the dual national, has at some point lived in the RoI; and vice versa. Presumably this also applies to people who hold dual nationality from other EEA states as well.

I must say; it makes sense to me.

I have to admit that I have always thought it somewhat farcical that British citizens living in the UK should be able to take advantage of the EEA regulations simply because the Irish government decided to grant them Irish citizenship as well. Although I cannot blame anyone who was able to for taking advantage; I'd have done the same if I could have!

Scorpio, getting back to your questions.

which passport does he submit irish or uk ?

If he's applying under the EEA rules, his Irish one. If applying under the UK immigration rules, his British one.

can they refuse him to apply as he only has a validity of under 6 months on his irish passport ?

Not as far as I'm aware. He's not applying for anything; his wife is.

is there anyone in bkk he can go see about this if he does have a problem ?

There are many visa agents in Thailand; I'd recommend contacting either ThaiVisaExpress or VisaPlus.

As Eff1n2ret says, it is not clear when this judgment will come into force, so it may be worth his wife's while applying under the EEA regulations first, which will be free, and seeing what happens.

[VisasPlus]

It's not just British nationals, Basil.

If applying to bring a non-EEA national family member to live in the country where one is a national then that country's immigration rules, procedures and fees apply. It is only where the EEA national is living in another EEA country that the EEA regulations would apply.

So, for example, a British national living in Spain can use the EEA regulations to have their non-EEA national spouse join them, but a Spanish national would have to apply under the Spanish rules and pay the Spanish fee.

If I've read Eff1n2ret's link correctly it seems to be saying that someone who holds dual British and Irish nationality can only use their Irish nationality to apply under the EEA regulations for a family member to join them in the UK if they, the dual national, has at some point lived in the RoI; and vice versa. Presumably this also applies to people who hold dual nationality from other EEA states as well.

I must say; it makes sense to me.

I have to admit that I have always thought it somewhat farcical that British citizens living in the UK should be able to take advantage of the EEA regulations simply because the Irish government decided to grant them Irish citizenship as well. Although I cannot blame anyone who was able for taking advantage; I'd have done th same if I could have!

Scorpio, getting back to you questions.

which passport does he submit irish or uk ?

If he's applying under the EEA rules, his Irish one. If applying under the UK immigration rules, his British one.

can they refuse him to apply as he only has a validity of under 6 months on his irish passport ?

Not as far as I'm aware.

is there anyone in bkk he can go see about this if he does have a problem ?

There are many visa agents in Thailand; I'd recommend contacting either ThaiVisaExpress or VisaPlus.

As Eff1n2ret says, it is not clear when this judgment will come into force, so it may be worth his while applying under the EEA regulations first, which will be free, and seeing what happens.

It is all to do with whether the dual national has exercised his/her right to free movement with the the EU. If thyeyhaven't ( and most dual citizen Irish/British nationals haven't) then the ECJ ruling says that one cannot benefit. Of course, that could be overcome by a short stay in another EU country, including the ROI.

I assume that the Home Office is considering the judgment, and they can obviously see that it is to their advantage to agree with the ruling. However, they are probably also considering the Zambrano judgment at the same time, and that judgment is not in the Home Office's favour in the least. It will be interesting to see how they play it.

Thai Visa Express have recently dealt with several of these applications, and maybe they will have some up to date advice.

[erikr_]

If he has lived in ROI it should be straight forward, otherwise I would still try the route, it is free and you would definite not need a visa agency to suport you for it. In case EEA family permit gets declined for the reason they state he does not exercise treaty rights he can always re-apply under immigration law (longer and more exensive way)

It's not just British nationals, Basil.

If applying to bring a non-EEA national family member to live in the country where one is a national then that country's immigration rules, procedures and fees apply. It is only where the EEA national is living in another EEA country that the EEA regulations would apply.

So, for example, a British national living in Spain can use the EEA regulations to have their non-EEA national spouse join them, but a Spanish national would have to apply under the Spanish rules and pay the Spanish fee.

If I've read Eff1n2ret's link correctly it seems to be saying that someone who holds dual British and Irish nationality can only use their Irish nationality to apply under the EEA regulations for a family member to join them in the UK if they, the dual national, has at some point lived in the RoI; and vice versa. Presumably this also applies to people who hold dual nationality from other EEA states as well.

I must say; it makes sense to me.

I have to admit that I have always thought it somewhat farcical that British citizens living in the UK should be able to take advantage of the EEA regulations simply because the Irish government decided to grant them Irish citizenship as well. Although I cannot blame anyone who was able for taking advantage; I'd have done th same if I could have!

Scorpio, getting back to you questions.

which passport does he submit irish or uk ?

If he's applying under the EEA rules, his Irish one. If applying under the UK immigration rules, his British one.

can they refuse him to apply as he only has a validity of under 6 months on his irish passport ?

Not as far as I'm aware.

is there anyone in bkk he can go see about this if he does have a problem ?

There are many visa agents in Thailand; I'd recommend contacting either ThaiVisaExpress or VisaPlus.

As Eff1n2ret says, it is not clear when this judgment will come into force, so it may be worth his while applying under the EEA regulations first, which will be free, and seeing what happens.

It is all to do with whether the dual national has exercised his/her right to free movement with the the EU. If thyeyhaven't ( and most dual citizen Irish/British nationals haven't) then the ECJ ruling says that one cannot benefit. Of course, that could be overcome by a short stay in another EU country, including the ROI.

I assume that the Home Office is considering the judgment, and they can obviously see that it is to their advantage to agree with the ruling. However, they are probably also considering the Zambrano judgment at the same time, and that judgment is not in the Home Office's favour in the least. It will be interesting to see how they play it.

Thai Visa Express have recently dealt with several of these applications, and maybe they will have some up to date advice.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

If he is from Northern Ireland and has never lived in the Republic or any other state in the European Union his dual nationality no longer avails him for the purpose of getting an EEA Family Permit for his wife. The European Court has moved the goalposts - see this page (second column):-

http://eur-lex.europ...005:0005:EN:PDF

It's quite recent, so it's not clear from the UKVisas website what instructions ECOs now have - best to check with the Embassy, although given that an EEA family permit application is free, perhaps the quickest way to find out is by applying.

They are still issuing EU Family permits to dual nationals however it is under review.

[smokie37]

ok m8, i'm also from Belfast and went down this road 3 yrs ago, so i hope this may help your friend?

what i did was to write a letter explaining that although i was born and bred in Northern Ireland as a British citizen,

i was exercising my rights as an Irish citizen to live and work in the U.K. and under the EEA treaty have the right to have my

wife who is a Thai citizen come live in the U.K. with me.

we were granted a visa within 2 weeks, at the cost of zero pounds. also there was no requirement for a tb test as the visa issued

is for 6 mths, you then extend this to a five year one after you arrive in the U.K. ( i would strongly recomend this is applied for asap as the

waiting time can be 6 mths to 1 yr) again at zero pounds

[7by7]

That was the situation, smokie.

But the recent European Court ruling means that in future people will not be able to do the same as you unless they have at some time in their life lived in the Republic.

As far as I can tell, that is not in doubt. The only question is when this ruling will come into force.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

We are still submitting EU Family permits for dual nationals & at the moment nothing has changed.

[7by7]

The UKBA will probably announce the change in an obscure press release which no one will publish and with no notice; as they usually do!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the first anyone outside the UKBA knows about this coming into force is when people start being refused!