Starting A Fish Farm

[theodore]

Hello everyone!

I'm leading a SIFE team out to Thailand next year, Students in Free Enterprise is an international non-profit organisation who's aim is to change the world through the positive power of business. What we aim to be doing is going out to either North East or North West Thailand to find a small community or a large family and work with them to build a fish farm for them. I'm looking to primarily farm Tilapia.

However, I really need some advice on going about this! From A-Z, beginning to end, all pointers and comments are welcome!

Although my main points of confusion are:

Are ground or concrete ponds?

The legal implications of acquiring land

Where do I get water from and what kind of system do I need to fit.

I also read that fish ponds for small communities are legible for government grants is this true? and if so how do you go about it!

Thank you for all your help!

[ozzydom]

Thats a long bow your drawing there theodore,

If as your post indicates ,it is to be a profit making business,then you will probably need to find a suitable family as community projects are doomed to failure in Thailand,for various reasons.

Suitable land with access to suitable water on land owned (clear title)by the family you select would be first step.

There are many threads in this forum going back many years by members who have built fish farms , I would suggest you do a search and read and digest these ,then ask questions.

The A-Z of the task would take volumes .

If your knowledge of the subject is zilch ,then I would suggest you hire somebody with said knowledge to guide you along.

[tingtong]

might get some basics here:

http://www.tilapiathai.com/

while i am here, let me also ask one question, not off topic...

Nam Sai Farm doesnt have Big Ooi catfish, or so it seems,

Where can i get a few 100s of them (fingerling, or about), preferable in the Chaiyaphum-Khon Kaen-Chum Phae triangle somewhere.

Another Q:

In the nearby shops fish food sells about 18-20 baht a kg, 16-18 baht/kg if buy the 20kg bag...is this about right price? ( the smaller size pellets being the more expensive ones)

Thanks, and hope all stayed within topic, was about to open up some older one, think better this way.

[jamescollister]

Op if you want to set up a fish farm, for free, come on over here. I have a large family, land and a big hole in the ground with fish in it. Jim

[changraider]

Just checked the SIFE website, and now having re-read your questions I'm a bit confused.

Am I right in thinking SIFE wishes to supply the manual labour, and expects the Thai farmers to supply the expertise, and the Thai government to supply the funding?

Or maybe I should ask the question another way, what is SIFE bringing to the party, and what is SIFE's objectives in this project?

[IsaanAussie]

Theodore,

Can I ask you what your organisation will contribute to the project amd what is the desired result?

Got the ponds and the water, in a small north eastern village, in the province of Sisaket. I am sure that many other members have the same resources. So it is all very doable as long as the objectives can be moulded into a viable community project.

Ozzydom is absolutely correct most aid based projects fail. Goes great until the money runs out, maintenance of equipment isnt budgeted for, or a raft of other petty reasons that stop a really good idea succeeding. Think of the Thai people, especially here in Isaan this way. They work extremely hard when the need arises, that is filling the rice bowl. Once it is full life is about having fun. Those that have more ambition and drive, usually either keep to themselves or are drained by the fun seekers. It is a very difficult culture to understand for someone not attuned to it. Pay too much, or too early, and you will find no-one turns up to work tomorrow, or maybe for a week.....

Believe me, I am not being negative and admire what I think you are trying to achieve. But to make it a success, as Ozzy suggests, tread softly.....boggy ground.

As far as government assistance is concerned, think of it in terms of the existing local local programs. Ten farmers teamed together can get fish stocks and training often for very little payment. Ask the government to supply the feed for an individual farmer or enterprise, no way. Each department is a seperate operation so to get them to work together is impossible unless the right "Big Face" asks.

The bottom line, everyone involved will ask the same question, "Whats in it for me?"

So going back to my opening question, whether you choose to share it or not, determine how much you can put in and what you want back first. Then achieve those ends with only standard available options where everyone wins>

Good Luck

Isaan Aussie

[WatersEdge]

Hi theodore,

Let's start with the root purpose of the project.

Hoping to help people who don't want help.

Stay home, have a nice life, forget Thailand.

Who put you up to this fool's errand?

Who is going to pay for it?

Having said that I know more about Tilapia than most,

far less than a few on this forum => I'm no expert

but I've actually done what you propose to start.

If you wish to do business in Thailand,

it can have not one hint of charity anywhere near it.

Charity is the kiss of death for business

as those involved envision themselves recipients

rather than laborers.

You can flap your gums about how

charity in the form of business is the most natural combination,

but all they see is the reflection of money off your shiny teeth,

and all they hear is what they've discussed endlessly amongst themselves,

The foreigner who brings money.

Your words are meaningless vibrations in the air to them.

Experience says that business has the practical effect which charity only wishes for,

and it provides knowledge which could be useful after you are gone.

Charity by contrast enables lazy people to train their children in the most direct path,

with the least hope of a work ethic for the future.

You should be aware that people have been travelling to these areas for a hundred years,

each in succession thinking they will help the people.

Are the people helped?

Wouldn't you think a hundred years should be long enough for all the help to take effect?

So there's something systemic at play here, don't you think?

Should you not heed my advice to stay far far away,

You need to know that the obstacles to a true business are very strong.

The people and especially local government have mental possession of your money

on the day you first show your face.

It is what they do, leech off a steady succession of well wishers.

The fact that you propose to do business is charming but it doesn't alter their perception.

You are foreign, therefore you have money, and you wish to lose it in their presence.

You will be presented with a dozen different minor projects that require a little money.

Yet you will notice that other foreigners are also presented with the same projects before and after you,

while those projects haven't been built even though earlier donors paid for them.

It's not about action, but rather the potential for action.

They take your money in the pretense of what they'd like to do some day.

There will be unexplainable obstacles to actual progress,

until you have no more time to waste.

You may encounter the rare individual who truly understands

and wants to build in himself what you would like to share.

But he will eventually be subverted

because the entire community conspires against his diligence.

It takes an exceptionally strong willed person to succeed for himself,

and that has nothing to do with your outside assistance.

A tough person does well in his native environment.

I have seen those kind in my work.

They are very friendly as they go about their own business,

but they don't ask for involvement because they already are doing it.

If you read this forum, you will see variations of this pattern a hundred different ways.

[ozzydom]

From a quick look at the SIFE website,I would hazard a guess that the organisation merely tries to teach marketing and business principles to the community involved.

The students give of their time as part of their studies but the organisation does not finance the projects ,they merely try to help gain loans from banks and governments.

One project mentioned in Asia, where they helped a few pedi-cab drivers to borrow 250 dollars each to buy their previously rented trikes and then taught them how to operate as a business.

I dont think theodore realises that to set up even a small fish farm that would support a family will cost baht into the six zero range and getting loans without very big collateral next to impossible.

The OP states that the students will "help" build the farm, does this mean physically as in pick and shovel,I think not.

[ozzydom]

might get some basics here:

http://www.tilapiathai.com/

while i am here, let me also ask one question, not off topic...

Nam Sai Farm doesnt have Big Ooi catfish, or so it seems,

Where can i get a few 100s of them (fingerling, or about), preferable in the Chaiyaphum-Khon Kaen-Chum Phae triangle somewhere.

Another Q:

In the nearby shops fish food sells about 18-20 baht a kg, 16-18 baht/kg if buy the 20kg bag...is this about right price? ( the smaller size pellets being the more expensive ones)

Thanks, and hope all stayed within topic, was about to open up some older one, think better this way.

Check with your local Fisheries Dept ,they probably have Big Ooi fry or fingerlings.

Fish food price varies with the pellet size but main pricing factor is the protein content,eg 16%protein 13baht kg 30 % protein 23 baht kg.

[changraider]

Hi all, I redirected Theodore to the farming forum as I know you guys know your stuff.

Oz I think you must be right about SIFE providing the management science sort of stuff, but it would only be theory as far as I can see; the fish farm supply and distributuon chain is already known by people doing that sort of business here isn't it? Surely not by bright students who presumably have never been to Thailand? So I really don't see what SIFE is offering - hopefully Theodore will clarify.

By the way I spend a lot of time on a working farm, though I'm a city boy not a farmer, and I just read your forum for relaxation!

[jamescollister]

Don't know anything about this organization, but met one of these guys from an NGO several years ago and the last thing he wanted is some farang who lives here interrupting his ego trip. All they want is some nice pictures to show the folks back home and get more sponsorship.

Help the hungry during a drought, yes, but helping those who don't need or want it is a waste of time and money. Seen, millions paid out after the tsunami for nothing, but a holiday for a lot of spongers. Jim

[RedBullHorn]

Building a earthen pond is easy, a 800 square metre (half rai ) at depth of 1.5m cost only 12'000 THB to excavate by backhoe.

Lets not talk about Tilapia which cost 0.35 THB/fingerling and take at least 6-8 months to reach marketable size of half kg-800gm, can't be overstock and easily knock out if there's a heavy shower creating low pressure that wipe out dissolve oxygen. It takes lot of experience to farm Tilapia, not a business to risk while doing the learning curve. All it take is one feeding during the overcast days

and you will see all whites floating on the pond

Lets talk about the money spinner...the Clarias catfish, cost 0.35 THB/ 2''-3'' fingerlings, 90 sacks of feed at average 515 THB (my region, north, Chiang Rai) on a premium grade feed ( i don't use inferior grade feed, it's a waste of time, anyway they cost about 450 THB/sack, again...my region) plus the cost on supplement, vitamins and anti-bacteria remedies.

Harvest in 90 days in experience hands, profit at least minimum 1 THB/fish hence 20'000 fingerlings in a half rai pond = 20'000 THB profit !

BUT the combine cost of fingerlings and feed alone make up a huge figure of about 100'000 THB to start with ! Even if you half that, to raise 10'000 fingerlings is already 50K THB, no average minded villagers are willing to risk that for a return of 10K THB Which in fact is 20 times higher than the interest rate for a saving account of the banks.

I farm catfishes in the volume of at least 200'000 fingelings, it is a business too much for an average Joe to handle, that kind of investment is something they wouldn't part with, they'd rather put the money under the bed and sleep on it...it keeps them warm

Folks back home think Thai are living in poverty, believe me theodore...they're not ! Look at all those new pick up trucks that fill the roads everyday.

IMHO, I think your project will be more beneficial to the more deserving people in poorer parts of Africa.

[tingtong]

RBH, a short while ago you wrote this on another topic:

"Posted 2011-08-27 14:37:37

Just completed harvesting my Pla Duk Oui.

Achieved 33 Ton from 160'000 fishes, FCR 1.16:1, 1920 feed sacks (Betagro Omeg).

Profited ฿15/kg

Farmgate price = ฿ 46/kg. (Chiang Rai)

How much are you getting in your area ? "

If i may ask:

- Your avarage fish sold by 0.2kg, what your numbers suggesting about, why did you sell that rather than wait for 0.5kg or so, you suggested above? ( even with loss for death, the weight still seem to be lot lower).

- While you sold smaller fishes you suggested here, i notice that your mentioned profit was 15THB/kg (with avarage 5 fish /kg, it is still 3THB/fish profit, vs. the more than 1THB/fish you mention on this topic, a big gap). What number is closer to the reality? What and why might case the huge gap between this 2 numbers?

I am interested in setting up some small scale fish farm, have some existing lakes, mostly with tilapia, but not for a business as it is, however i intend to change it around slowly. Also one of our lake i would like to have catfishes. Thus i would very much like to understand a bit about the math and economics about your fish farming.

[ozzydom]

Building a earthen pond is easy, a 800 square metre (half rai ) at depth of 1.5m cost only 12'000 THB to excavate by backhoe.

Lets not talk about Tilapia which cost 0.35 THB/fingerling and take at least 6-8 months to reach marketable size of half kg-800gm, can't be overstock and easily knock out if there's a heavy shower creating low pressure that wipe out dissolve oxygen. It takes lot of experience to farm Tilapia, not a business to risk while doing the learning curve. All it take is one feeding during the overcast days

and you will see all whites floating on the pond

Lets talk about the money spinner...the Clarias catfish, cost 0.35 THB/ 2''-3'' fingerlings, 90 sacks of feed at average 515 THB (my region, north, Chiang Rai) on a premium grade feed ( i don't use inferior grade feed, it's a waste of time, anyway they cost about 450 THB/sack, again...my region) plus the cost on supplement, vitamins and anti-bacteria remedies.

Harvest in 90 days in experience hands, profit at least minimum 1 THB/fish hence 20'000 fingerlings in a half rai pond = 20'000 THB profit !

BUT the combine cost of fingerlings and feed alone make up a huge figure of about 100'000 THB to start with ! Even if you half that, to raise 10'000 fingerlings is already 50K THB, no average minded villagers are willing to risk that for a return of 10K THB Which in fact is 20 times higher than the interest rate for a saving account of the banks.

I farm catfishes in the volume of at least 200'000 fingelings, it is a business too much for an average Joe to handle, that kind of investment is something they wouldn't part with, they'd rather put the money under the bed and sleep on it...it keeps them warm

Folks back home think Thai are living in poverty, believe me theodore...they're not ! Look at all those new pick up trucks that fill the roads everyday.

IMHO, I think your project will be more beneficial to the more deserving people in poorer parts of Africa.

Hi RBH, you quote 90 bags of feed for 20,000 cats over 90 days , do you only feed one bag, (2 feeds )per day, seems a bit light on. And I thought I was miserly with the tucker.

[RedBullHorn]

RBH, a short while ago you wrote this on another topic:

"Posted 2011-08-27 14:37:37

Just completed harvesting my Pla Duk Oui.

Achieved 33 Ton from 160'000 fishes, FCR 1.16:1, 1920 feed sacks (Betagro Omeg).

Profited ฿15/kg

Farmgate price = ฿ 46/kg. (Chiang Rai)

How much are you getting in your area ? "

If i may ask:

- Your avarage fish sold by 0.2kg, what your numbers suggesting about, why did you sell that rather than wait for 0.5kg or so, you suggested above? ( even with loss for death, the weight still seem to be lot lower).

- While you sold smaller fishes you suggested here, i notice that your mentioned profit was 15THB/kg (with avarage 5 fish /kg, it is still 3THB/fish profit, vs. the more than 1THB/fish you mention on this topic, a big gap). What number is closer to the reality? What and why might case the huge gap between this 2 numbers?

I am interested in setting up some small scale fish farm, have some existing lakes, mostly with tilapia, but not for a business as it is, however i intend to change it around slowly. Also one of our lake i would like to have catfishes. Thus i would very much like to understand a bit about the math and economics about your fish farming.

Hi tingtong,

Let me clear this for you. If you notice again on my post i stated that i used up 1920 sack of feed. My long standing FCR achievement ( Feed Convertion Ratio) is 1.16:1 is only achievable if i use premium grade pellet feed, inferior grade i used long time ago will achieve 1.25:1 and the cheapest grade available when i first started out achieved 1.33-1.35:1

All #2 size pellet have specs printed on the side of the bag and all said #2 is 30% protein level, the different being premium grade uses more fishmeal to produce protein while inferior grades use lesser fishmeal and more poultry feathers to produce protein.

As you can see the premium grade give better weight gain although it is expensive but in monetary terms more profit/kg.

I harvested 33'205 kg at the expense of 1920 sack of feed, so i round off to 33 tons when i posted on the topic... 33'000 divided by 1920 = 17.1875

mean a sack of 20kg feed will give the achievable FCR of 17.18 kg. In FCR Ratio Term is 20 divided by 17.18 = 1.1641

A fish will need 1.16 kg of food to produce 1kg of flesh. Hence FCR 1.16:1

My sizes of fishes in percentage (estimate) is roughly 3 fishes/kg 15%, 4 fishes/kg 35%, 5 fishes/kg 30%, 6 and 7 fishes/kg make up the rest and about 0.05% is undersize, the size of 10 fishes/kg (100gm)

In term of P & L - My average feed is120 sacks for10'000 "grow out" hence 120 times 16 = 1920 sacks.

Average ฿510 per sack ( combining #1 and #2 feed, i secured a deal for Lab Inter- Fish First #1, 32% feed at ฿450/sack back then )

is 510 divided by 20kg/sack = ฿25.50 /kg, so 25 times FCR1.16 = ฿29.58, i then rounded of to ฿30, i sold at ฿46/kg

therefore my profit is ฿15/kg. This is not my nett yet as i still have to minus other variable cost like meds supplement, salt, Chlorine, Cyanide, electricity, the guard dog's Pedigree meals, harvesting labour, pond clearing celebration, pig heads offers for rites, and all the Chang and Lao Khao back debt at my neighbourhood store

Lastly, no wholesalers want to buy half a kg size Pla Duk Big Oui, small volume of 1% in the harvest is generally not a problem, but they will buy more than half kg size up to a kg size for Pla Duk Lart Sia. ฿1 per fish is the worse case senario, like price feed up and reverses of the supply and demand.

Building a earthen pond is easy, a 800 square metre (half rai ) at depth of 1.5m cost only 12'000 THB to excavate by backhoe.

Lets not talk about Tilapia which cost 0.35 THB/fingerling and take at least 6-8 months to reach marketable size of half kg-800gm, can't be overstock and easily knock out if there's a heavy shower creating low pressure that wipe out dissolve oxygen. It takes lot of experience to farm Tilapia, not a business to risk while doing the learning curve. All it take is one feeding during the overcast days

and you will see all whites floating on the pond

Lets talk about the money spinner...the Clarias catfish, cost 0.35 THB/ 2''-3'' fingerlings, 90 sacks of feed at average 515 THB (my region, north, Chiang Rai) on a premium grade feed ( i don't use inferior grade feed, it's a waste of time, anyway they cost about 450 THB/sack, again...my region) plus the cost on supplement, vitamins and anti-bacteria remedies.

Harvest in 90 days in experience hands, profit at least minimum 1 THB/fish hence 20'000 fingerlings in a half rai pond = 20'000 THB profit !

BUT the combine cost of fingerlings and feed alone make up a huge figure of about 100'000 THB to start with ! Even if you half that, to raise 10'000 fingerlings is already 50K THB, no average minded villagers are willing to risk that for a return of 10K THB Which in fact is 20 times higher than the interest rate for a saving account of the banks.

I farm catfishes in the volume of at least 200'000 fingelings, it is a business too much for an average Joe to handle, that kind of investment is something they wouldn't part with, they'd rather put the money under the bed and sleep on it...it keeps them warm

Folks back home think Thai are living in poverty, believe me theodore...they're not ! Look at all those new pick up trucks that fill the roads everyday.

IMHO, I think your project will be more beneficial to the more deserving people in poorer parts of Africa.

Hi RBH, you quote 90 bags of feed for 20,000 cats over 90 days , do you only feed one bag, (2 feeds )per day, seems a bit light on. And I thought I was miserly with the tucker.

Hi Ozzy,

Sir, the "standard" 90 sacks are for 10'000 CF over 90 days(but i forgot to mention that ) , that's why i mentioned a close to figure of ฿100'000 including fingerlings cost, as above. My experience is 120 sacks/10K CF for best odds using old pond up to age 5 years...new pond up to age 3 - 90 sacks/ harvest.

I can achieve 80 days in a new pond, marketable size of 4/5/6 CF/kg, but i prefered to stretch out to 90 or 100 days for better maturity of the fishes, CF at range of 80 days are consider not reaching its maturity, they're under age. They look big in size but have inferior weight result on the scale.

Edited September 8, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

RBH,

many thx for the very informative answer.

I just bought recently 500 big ooi, for trial.

The start is good, yet none died, what i take as positive thing

the challenge:

you mention different feeds.

In the local stores they seem to have nothing better than Fish First's 25% protein feed...so no choice, had to settle for the start with that...at least the 1st 20kg sack is #1, 25% protein pellets.

I will keep history so, should be able to refer to FCR later, the outlay isnt large, nor i trully expect to turn profit on it, just yet, want to get hands on the math, and see if there is a way to sell them as well, retail or else.

What size i should aim for therefor for selling them? 3fish/kg? 4? less? more? what is your experience? in this case should be retail selling, due the numbers...

How long the self life of fishfood? Should i be able to find some better protein content feed a bit further away, maybe to store some.

Any suggested brand? maybe a contact to them to find out where nearest they sell them retail?

How much i should feed the fishes? (500 pcs, now 3 inch about).

Are this catfishes growing better in earthen ponds, or tanks/concrete?

If not too many questions, i would appreciate advices. ( from anyone else too, of course).

[RedBullHorn]

All brands #1 size pellet feed are 32% protein, pellet size approximately 2-3mm, #2 are 30% protein, pellet size approximately 4-4.5mm. #3 are 28% protein, pellet size approximately 6.5mm.

Tilapia feed (herbivorous feed) may have lower protein level and are priced cheaper than all purpose catfish feed.

I'm confused at your #1, 25% feed from Fish First !?!! If it is, you need to get #1 at 32%,

At commecial stage, i don't use #3 feed, it is a waste of money,

it doesn't help much on the ADG percentage (Average Daily Growth %)

Brands- Cargills, CP, Betagro, Arawan, Lab Inter's Fish First/ Fish Choice, Fish One, Thai Union, Lee Patana,etc etc...

Suggest you read up the Pinned Topic - Animal Feed Manufacturer

The shelf live is 3 months, it is printed somewhere at the specs side of the sack, after the day it is manufactured it will start to degrade, on the last day of the 3 months, protein level might be 28% for a 30% feed, as long as the feed are dry and kept out of the sun, you still can use the feed even after expiration, just know that it won't be the true protein level but lower one.

Always buy what you can use within 2 weeks is the rule of thumb.

Clarias catfishes are voracious eater, always feed to satiation for optimal result (untill they are full and feed start to float ) 12 hours interval achieve best result. If you feed at 8am and 5pm, they will eat a lot more in the morning and lesses at 5pm.

Targeted marketable size depends on you area of retail, supply the sizes according to your area demand, some people in the village like 6/7/8 fishes /kg while others like the bigger like 4/5/6 fishes/kg. Since you are doing only 500 and hopefully all are not eaten by the existing fishes in your pond by the time you harvest. In the later stage, if you go commecial, start small with half rai pond (800 sqm) depth 1.3m - 1.5m slope down, try 20'000 a season, then try 25'000 MAX next season and see the different in harvest result.

Always contact a wholesaler to buy your fishes at one go when the time comes before you start farming, get him to lock you in the queue. A wholesaler will better honor the agreement when he get the bonus of supplying you the fingerlings and also the feed.

As for which is better, earthen, PVC tank or concrete. that depends on the availability of land and personal preferences. Clarias catfishes love mud bed, generally earthen pond are the natural choice.

Edited September 9, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

RBH,

thanks for the answer, food for thoughts, as always. lot of help.

one obvious question came to our minds:

where to find such wholesaler who would supply the fish, the food, and buy back the grown ups?

your numbers of the 20.000 fish seems a doable number for us, also the outlay is such i am comfortable with risking on it...

of course, there is room to grow, the target would be a modest income reached within 2 yrs...

[RedBullHorn]

just ask around,especially pay attention to people raising catfishes in very high volume like 50'000 -200'000. They know it all

[tingtong]

all right, i will.

just hope those ppl raising large quantities of catfishes wont mind to share info...

maybe they would afraid that i can be a sort of competition to them

not likely at this stage.

but sure, that before decide to go up in numbers, i will like to secure some sort of selling deal, else will stay small, and just let my wife retail it, or eat them herself.

[David006]

.....a SIFE "team"....??

I also have googled SIFE and wonder if this "project" maybe a bit of a non profit boondoggle...

...does your overseas SIFE team feel they are qualified to supply this "aid/help" to potential Thai fish farmers here? By asking your question of expat "farmers" it would seem you know next to nothing about the subject or the country's business culture.....and quite frankly puts your organization in a bad light off the bat....even to the point of lacking the very business acumen which you wish to impart.

was you just gonna turn up in some rural place and THEN what?? Sounds like you guys may need to do some homework in planning,strategy and tactics...

a long row to hoe my friend...good luck

[RedBullHorn]

all right, i will.

just hope those ppl raising large quantities of catfishes wont mind to share info...

maybe they would afraid that i can be a sort of competition to them

not likely at this stage.

but sure, that before decide to go up in numbers, i will like to secure some sort of selling deal, else will stay small, and just let my wife retail it, or eat them herself.

People always ask me why i'm willing to share information and trade secret, especially villagers...

8 years ago, you will never know what i put in the water or what i mixed into the feed.

Now i feel i'm comfortable about sharing informations (only if you bring a bottle of Lao Khao )

so people can have first hand, guided information on how to start a fish farm and be successful,

know the proper way and also explain what was the wrong way throught my trial and error.

After all this years, the contacts i have and the trust i built, there's not way any newbie with

millions $$$ could ruin it and it would take years for them to catch up.

I'm so far ahead and i know my market very well, population of 66 millions, the market is so big,

there's enough for everybody, i don't view others as competitor because i'm doing production,

receive the same farmgate price all growers get according to seasons' supply & demand ...not wholesale or retail.

[tingtong]

Trust me, wouldnt mind to sit down, and give you not one but 2 bottles for some talk...

but Chiang Rai is way too far away from us, unfortunately.

[ozzydom]

RBH,

thanks for the answer, food for thoughts, as always. lot of help.

one obvious question came to our minds:

where to find such wholesaler who would supply the fish, the food, and buy back the grown ups?

your numbers of the 20.000 fish seems a doable number for us, also the outlay is such i am comfortable with risking on it...

of course, there is room to grow, the target would be a modest income reached within 2 yrs...

Tingtong,I would suggest that you dont get tangled up with any group offering to supply fry , feed and buy your end product, inflated feed prices and lower fish price usually mean that you provide the site,do all the work and get very little for your troubles.

Start off in a small way and grow as your knowledge and pocket book dictates.

Edited September 10, 2011 by ozzydom

[RedBullHorn]

In my point of view... tingtong should get involve with independent wholesaler who has a team of wholesalers but don't get involve with conglomerate like CPF "contract fish farming scheme" (heard them all about pond owners left stranded by CPF).

You can never buy feed directly from company like them because of executive rights of distribution of Sub dristrict zoning (Amphur/Tambon).

Feed are supply to this people by trailer load of 500 sacks and 750sacks per order and there's quota to achieve per month. A fraction

of wholesalers hold the executive rights as they have big client base which they can hit those trailer load several time per month as they do supply to fellow wholesales and clients like me. Feed company will not entertain you if you don't have a track record of established proof in volume of fishes raise and sold to the market per annum (receipt proof).

If you go commercial, start out small, if 20'000 is a risk for starter then try 10'000 to get a feel and see if the project cut out for you. Contact those wholesalers unless you wish to wholesale and retail it yourself, that's a lot of work !!! I prefer to do production, not work too much as in fighting the market for retail client. I like my routine of 2-3 hours work per day and spend more time with my family and enjoy my stay here in LOS, not work like how i did back home.

Inflated or not is in your power to negotiate and do the maths, do your homework by checking several places and then compare prices and negotiate.

Edited September 10, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[RedBullHorn]

In my point of view... tingtong should get involve with independent wholesaler who has a team of wholesalers but don't get involve with conglomerate like CPF "contract fish farming scheme" (heard them all about pond owners left stranded by CPF).

You can never buy feed directly from company like them because of executive rights of distribution of Sub dristrict zoning (Amphur/Tambon).

Feed are supply to this people by trailer load of 500 sacks and 750sacks per order and there's quota to achieve per month. A fraction

of wholesalers hold the executive rights as they have big client base which they can hit those trailer load ....

I'd like to correct a typo error, sorry...

I meant Exclusive rights...

[tingtong]

What is generally the quantity when you can approach a feed manufacturer directly, if any?

Or the quantity where usually one can expect a meaningful (5-10% or ??) discount from a seller/wholesaler of fish feed?

[RedBullHorn]

You just can't do direct ! Beside the person with the Tambon exclusive distributor rights, there's one more person you have to by-pass and that is the challenge. All the sub district exclusive rights people report to him, generally with kick backs to curry flavour.

That Indian chief is :

The Regional Exclusive Rights Distributor. One for every region of Thailand. This is the person incharge of the company's

regional sales representatives that service the sub district people. You call the company and you will be refer to this person - He calls the shots and he holds the power. He decides who to keep and who gets dump ( sales quotas)

The range of profit of the wholesaler is around 25-40 THB per sack, + 10THB if they transport and unload for you. Labourers doing unloading will get 1 Baht per sack which is included in the 10 THB/sack. Generally you would want to ask around and compare prices and negotiate the closest figure.

CPF are notoriously known to mark up to 100 THB/sack, They even willing to give you the fingerlings free of charge to make clients happy, knowing they will make it back through feed sales. (under their contract farming scheme)

Edited September 11, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tingtong]

OK, clearer now, so no direct contact to company.

If i look at the sack, there is a phone number though...assume if i call up that, they suppose to refer me to their regional/tambon contact then?

Is that correct?

I really not sure how CPF is being such a huge player in contract farming ( not only in fish, i mean in all the things) but having such a tainted reputation about it, still, lots of ppl seem to work with them.

But as was discussed before, it should be good to avoid contract fish farming, and stay sort of independent.

[RedBullHorn]

They will ask for your location and you will be refer to company's regional sales rep. whom will set you up with your nearest Tambon distributor. You always get started with Tambon level.

CPF dictates live stock farmgate prices, wholesalers will get quote of CP's prices from middle region and then adjust to their respective region.

Edited September 11, 2011 by RedBullHorn