Chalerm Slams Abhisit Govt For Pardon Plea Delay

[Buchholz]

Thai Government Backs Royal Pardon to Get Thaksin Home

Thailand’s government will submit a petition to King Bhumibol Adulyadej asking him to grant a royal pardon to exiled former leader Thaksin Shinawatra, risking renewed conflict a month after his sister became prime minister.

The government will revive a 2009 petition from Thaksin’s supporters as part of efforts to bring him back into the country, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said today in Bangkok. Thaksin, ousted in a coup five years ago, has lived overseas since fleeing a 2008 jail sentence for abuse of power.

“Without Thaksin, we wouldn’t win a landslide in the election,” Chalerm said in comments broadcast on TNN cable television network.

Continues:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-08/thai-government-backs-royal-pardon-to-get-thaksin-home-correct-.html

Bloomberg - Sept 8, 2011

.

[jaidam]

When do people think Thaksin will be back?

He won't.

Thaksin has proved to be one of the worlds biggest cowards. Choosing the "dog in a manger" attitude, he has spent some of his huge fortune trying to destroy Thailand and foment civil war since fleeing. All the while living in absurd luxury overseas with the highest security, shopping in Louis Vuitton shops in Paris as his brainwashed minions burnt Bangkok for him.

So long as there is an assassination risk he will not return. There will always be an assassination risk for truly evil persons.

Ironically, probably the safest place in Thailand for Thaksin would be in a high security prison. Although he probably fancies that he would be safe in a nice big central Bangkok property with a moat, long iron security wall and dozens of soldiers guarding.

[webfact]

related

Justice Spokesman: Thaksin Not Required to Serve Jail Term to Request Amnesty

Follow this link:

[Crushdepth]

When do people think Thaksin will be back?

Just in time to attend the next anti-Thaksin protest.

[Orac]

When do people think Thaksin will be back?

There does seem to be some momentum being gained with both the Royal Pardon approach and also the constitutional change/amnesty.

Personally I think it would be best for the Royal Pardon request to run its course as this has the potential to make a clear point that most people will accept and can possibly put an end to this political bickering so that Thailand can move on. Though we could speculate on possible outcomes of this request we have to be careful not to second guess what any decision would be apart from it being a decision made in the best interests of the country itself. Having said that, this is the only person I am aware of who can put Thaksin in his place be it through denying a pardon or granting one with clear stipulations as to what is acceptable in the future.

[hyperdimension]

Well, was it the party who said it was illegal, or some part of the legal system that said it was illegal?

That one in bold.

Who can submit a petition?

Convicted prisoners

Concerned persons: parents, offsprings and spouse

Diplomatic representatives (only in the case of foreign prisoners)

Department of Corrections

Neither Surapong Towichakchaikul nor Prakit Shinawatra who claim to have signed the petition are in any of the categories listed above. Didn't Thaksin's offspring or spouse sign the petition, and if not, why not?

[rixalex]

There does seem to be some momentum being gained with both the Royal Pardon approach and also the constitutional change/amnesty.

Momentum being gained or hot air being blown?

[Buchholz]

Well, was it the party who said it was illegal, or some part of the legal system that said it was illegal?

That one in bold.

Who can submit a petition?

Convicted prisoners

Concerned persons: parents, offsprings and spouse

Diplomatic representatives (only in the case of foreign prisoners)

Department of Corrections

Neither Surapong Towichakchaikul nor Prakit Shinawatra who claim to have signed the petition are in any of the categories listed above. Didn't Thaksin's offspring or spouse sign the petition, and if not, why not?

He has no spouse and his 30 year-old "kids" probably don't want him back.

.

[Tywais]

He has no spouse and his 30 year-old "kids" probably don't want him back.

I believe that was a divorce of convenience which may not be so convenient now.

[Buchholz]

He has no spouse and his 30 year-old "kids" probably don't want him back.

I believe that was a divorce of convenience which may not be so convenient now.

Yes, of course, it was.

It's only a minor inconvenience now, however, as it would not surprise me if they attempt to warp Thaksin's description of his relationship with Yingluck in order to fulfill the "offspring" option for the Royal Pardon request.

"I raised her like my eldest daughter."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-16/thaksin-looms-in-thai-vote-as-yingluck-lead-deters-investors.html

Edited September 9, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Deputy-PM Chalerm says that "the government has not done anything about this matter".

But the OP also says that the Justice Minister has yesterday appointed a committee to look into the petition. Some contradiction there ?

I think Thaksin ought perhaps to be entitled to a full-refund plus interest, of any contributions he may have made, to help get PTP elected ! What's the point of owning a political-party if it doesn't do as you want ?

I agree that the wording in this article is not clear.

The only way that I see for it to not be contradictory is if they are talking about 2 separate requests for a pardon, one being the petition that was submitted by the people 2 years ago, and a second being a request made by this current government.

But I'm not certain what The Nation meant to say, either.

There's but 1 Royal Pardon request.

It was prepared and submitted by the Red Shirts.

As per protocol it goes first to the Corrections Department.

From there it goes to the Justice Minister, which is where it is now. He has decided to set up this committee to review it.

Chalerm's complaint is that it took too long to reach the Justice Minister, which as said, could have been avoided if it hadn't involved the need for 3.6 million verifications to be completed.

It'll be interesting to see if Chalerm complains that it takes too long to leave the Justice Minister. There's no timeline for this appointed committee to complete their review.

Yep, now the committee is not sure how long they will take.

Chalerm should start complaining soon.... errrr, rather "slamming" per thread title.

.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Amnesty Panel Inconclusive on Thaksin Serving Jail Term

The probe panel to study a royal pardon request for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra held its first meeting today, but no conclusion has been made whether Thaksin would have to serve jail time before the petition can be filed.

Dean of Ramkamhaeng University's Faculty of Political Science, Wutthisak Larpcharoensup, as chariman of the committee to study the royal pardon petition for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, called the panel's first meeting today.

The meeting lasted almost one and a half hours before one of the panel members, Thongthong Chantarangsu, came out to say that today's conference did not go into details as it only looked at facts and laid out important factors that should be considered.

One of the major factors is to look into the Criminal Procedure Code and other relevant laws to scrutinize whether the petitioners have the legal right to sign Thaksin's royal pardon request.

Moreover, Thongthong said the panel will study all related laws and previous amnesty cases to find out whether Thaksin would have to serve a jail time before a royal pardon request can be submitted.

He pointed out that the committee will collect opinions from all panel members and present their findings to the justice minister for a final decision.

Thongthong went on to say that the panel has not set a time frame to complete the process.

The next meeting is scheduled for September 22.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-09

[Buchholz]

There will always be an assassination risk for truly evil persons.

Ironically, probably the safest place in Thailand for Thaksin would be in a high security prison.

Justice Ministry Denies Preparing Special Jail for Thaksin

The Justice Ministry insists the re-opening of a temporary prison in the compound of the Special Branch Police headquarters is not in preparation for the return of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Justice Ministry Spokesperson Thirachai Wuthitham said Justice Minister Police General Pracha Promnok had a meeting with Acting National Police Chief Police General Priewpan Damapong and Special Branch Police Chief Thos Ronrittichai.

The three agreed to re-assume operation of a temporary prison in Bangkok's Lak Si District.

Thirachai stated the prison is on the premises of the Police Club and the Special Branch Police headquarters.

The facility was formerly used for the imprisonment of foreign prisoners and Thais convicted on security or political charges.

Thirchai reasoned that facilities run by the Corrections Department are now overcrowded.

He went on to say that former Justice Minister Pheerapan Sarirathawipak ordered the prison closed and turned it into the office of the Special Branch Police, but the agency has never used it.

Therefore,the Corrections Department has asked to re-open the building as a detention facility.

The Justice Ministry spokesperson stated the prison will be arranged for the detention of prisoners sentenced on national security and political charges and foreign inmates awaiting repatriation.

He insisted the move has nothing to do with the rumored return of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra and asserted the prison will be no better than other correctional facilities.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-09

[Buchholz]

Interesting to read about the disgruntled Pheu Thai Party members who are upset with Chalerm in the other paper.

Complaints that he's running rough shed over others by making too many comments on areas outside his responsibility.

[Crushdepth]

He insisted the move has nothing to do with the rumored return of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra and asserted the prison will be no better than other correctional facilities.

That's good news for the current inmates. Upgrades to 5-star cells, complete with bar, pool and vices!

Edited September 9, 2011 by Crushdepth

[Buchholz]

Thaksin pardon panel has 3 questions

The panel set up to review a 2009 petition submitted by the red shirts seeking a pardon for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will try to answer three key questions, panel member Tongthong Chandransu said yesterday.

"The pardon review in the Thaksin case has dragged on for a long time; the panel will proceed with caution before coming up with its recommendations," he said.

Tongthong said his panel was tasked with compiling a report on which Justice Minister Pracha Promnok can base a final decision.

In its report, the panel will try to decide:

Whether the petitioners are entitled to petition for a royal pardon as per the Criminal Procedural Code;

Whether the manner in which the petition was submitted is in accordance with traditions, precedents and prescribed rules and regulations; and

Whether past pardon cases are applicable to the Thaksin case, such as the issue of serving time before seeking clemency.

On Wednesday, Pracha appointed the nine-member panel to scrutinise the pardon petition. The panel has already convened its first meeting to outline how it will go about its work. Its next meeting will take place in the next few weeks.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the pardon review was business left unfinished by the previous government.

"This is a routine matter for my government to carry on to completion," she said, insisting her government had no policy on seeking or not seeking a pardon for any specific individual - including her brother, Thaksin.

She dismissed speculation that the government was rushing to seek royal clemency for Thaksin.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senpong said supporters of a pardon for Thaksin, such as Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, had erred in assuming that a fugitive could receive a pardon without having served any time.

Legal provisions and precedents regarding pardons were clear, he said: Only incarcerated convicts are entitled to clemency. He said the case of former Attorney-General Komain Patarapirom did not serve as a precedent, as Komain's jail term had been suspended, whereas Thaksin's has not.

-- The Nation 2011-09-10

[rubl]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the pardon review was business left unfinished by the previous government.

"This is a routine matter for my government to carry on to completion," she said, insisting her government had no policy on seeking or not seeking a pardon for any specific individual - including her brother, Thaksin.

She dismissed speculation that the government was rushing to seek royal clemency for Thaksin.

In my innocence I thought the 'pardon review' was a matter of the judiciary rather than the government. So I'd call it unfinished business the judicial system is still processing.

Anyway this government has no policy on seeking or not seeking a pardon for any specific individual. K. Chalerm who just vowed to help get k. Thaksin pardoned must be doing this on his own, without help and/or knowledge of our PM or other government people, and probably should be reprimanded by less sweet smiling Ms. Yingluck. If I were her I'd borrow the whiplash from sbk and both admonish the minions and administer some sense of 'falling in line'.

Trying to get her government, government spokespeople, Pheu Thai MPs and execs, and additional UDD folk on one line without constantly contradicting each other seems a real Sisyphean task

[Buchholz]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the pardon review was business left unfinished by the previous government.

"This is a routine matter for my government to carry on to completion," she said, insisting her government had no policy on seeking or not seeking a pardon for any specific individual - including her brother, Thaksin.

She dismissed speculation that the government was rushing to seek royal clemency for Thaksin.

In my innocence I thought the 'pardon review' was a matter of the judiciary rather than the government. So I'd call it unfinished business the judicial system is still processing.

Anyway this government has no policy on seeking or not seeking a pardon for any specific individual. K. Chalerm who just vowed to help get k. Thaksin pardoned must be doing this on his own, without help and/or knowledge of our PM or other government people, and probably should be reprimanded by less sweet smiling Ms. Yingluck. If I were her I'd borrow the whiplash from sbk and both admonish the minions and administer some sense of 'falling in line'.

Trying to get her government, government spokespeople, Pheu Thai MPs and execs, and additional UDD folk on one line without constantly contradicting each other seems a real Sisyphean task

Chalerm has said he was ordered to get the pardon by Yingluck

Chalerm to Push forth Thaksin's Royal Pardon

ASTV has reported that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung has been ordered by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to expedite the royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

[Buchholz]

Thaksin pardon panel has 3 questions

The panel set up to review a 2009 petition submitted by the red shirts seeking a pardon for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will try to answer three key questions, panel member Tongthong Chandransu said yesterday.

In its report, the panel will try to decide:

Whether the petitioners are entitled to petition for a royal pardon as per the Criminal Procedural Code;

Whether the manner in which the petition was submitted is in accordance with traditions, precedents and prescribed rules and regulations; and

Whether past pardon cases are applicable to the Thaksin case, such as the issue of serving time before seeking clemency.

It would seem the committee's three questions are quite similar to my three questions earlier...

"Don't ask the prime minister about this"

That seems to be the common mantra with this administration.

After Chalerm's interview, his assistant gave copies of a document to reporters. Signed by Chalerm, it said the law did not specify the kind of cases for which His Majesty the King could or could not give a royal pardon, how long a penalty the convict must serve before seeking a royal pardon, or the prohibitions on a fugitive seeking a royal pardon.

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

and since Chalerm hasn't been forthcoming publicly answering any of them, hopefully the committee can find the answer.

[KKK]

Grant the pardon, with the stimpulation absolutely no politics for life, if he breaks this royal mandate he will go to jail for life and forfit his fortune to the state. He would last about 2 days before he opened his mouth.

And nothing would happen to him if he did....Don't you get it ... he and his followers see him as above the law....

NO AMNESTY EVER...DO NOT PASS GO...DO NOT GET 200 (million)....GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL....That is the only place he should be.

[Crushdepth]

Has anyone slammed Chalerm yet? Just asking...

[KKK]

I think the pardon plea is is a bad idea as it drags the monarchy into politics.

It doesn't..The King ratifies amnesties as head of state. Others make the decision who gets one. Just like the British Queen, she doesn't decide who gets knighthoods...she just doles them out....

[Orac]

I think the pardon plea is is a bad idea as it drags the monarchy into politics.

It doesn't..The King ratifies amnesties as head of state. Others make the decision who gets one. Just like the British Queen, she doesn't decide who gets knighthoods...she just doles them out....

So what you are saying is that a Royal Pardon is a political act and it is down to the government who gets one - the King only ratifies what is presented to him???

If so it would seem that the outcome here is virtually a given - provided the law is followed, which does appear to be a tad flexible in this case.

[KKK]

"I believe Pol Lt-Col Thaksin, who graduated from the police academy and finished a Phd in criminology, knows all the procedures," Mr Purachai added.

But the Thai police academies Phd in criminology is in 'how to be one', not 'how to catch one'...just ask any policeman..

[KKK]

I think the pardon plea is is a bad idea as it drags the monarchy into politics.

It doesn't..The King ratifies amnesties as head of state. Others make the decision who gets one. Just like the British Queen, she doesn't decide who gets knighthoods...she just doles them out....

So what you are saying is that a Royal Pardon is a political act and it is down to the government who gets one - the King only ratifies what is presented to him???

If so it would seem that the outcome here is virtually a given - provided the law is followed, which does appear to be a tad flexible in this case.

yes that's the way I understand it....the king, who is outside politics, takes and ratifies what his government puts before him. Isn't that what a democratic monarchy is all about...

[Orac]

I think the pardon plea is is a bad idea as it drags the monarchy into politics.

It doesn't..The King ratifies amnesties as head of state. Others make the decision who gets one. Just like the British Queen, she doesn't decide who gets knighthoods...she just doles them out....

So what you are saying is that a Royal Pardon is a political act and it is down to the government who gets one - the King only ratifies what is presented to him???

If so it would seem that the outcome here is virtually a given - provided the law is followed, which does appear to be a tad flexible in this case.

yes that's the way I understand it....the king, who is outside politics, takes and ratifies what his government puts before him. Isn't that what a democratic monarchy is all about...

I am not entirely sure on this as I understood the Kings position to be above politics rather than outside of it.This scenario almost seems to be placing him in a position whereby the politicians are making decisions that he has to follow.

Unfortunately we are already stepping on dubious ground regarding what can be discussed here.

[Crushdepth]

I think the pardon plea is is a bad idea as it drags the monarchy into politics.

It doesn't..The King ratifies amnesties as head of state. Others make the decision who gets one. Just like the British Queen, she doesn't decide who gets knighthoods...she just doles them out....

So what you are saying is that a Royal Pardon is a political act and it is down to the government who gets one - the King only ratifies what is presented to him???

If so it would seem that the outcome here is virtually a given - provided the law is followed, which does appear to be a tad flexible in this case.

yes that's the way I understand it....the king, who is outside politics, takes and ratifies what his government puts before him. Isn't that what a democratic monarchy is all about...

You have it wrong. The head of state usually endorses the government's recommendations but is not obliged to do so. The HOS's powers exists as a final sanity check to the government. This power is rarely used, but it does happen from time to time (for example, there are several instances where legislation has not been accepted).

It's not hard to see what the government is up to here. And it's got *nothing* to do with getting a pardon for Thaksin.

[tlansford]

Amnesty Panel Inconclusive on Thaksin Serving Jail Term

The probe panel to study a royal pardon request for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra held its first meeting today, but no conclusion has been made whether Thaksin would have to serve jail time before the petition can be filed.

Dean of Ramkamhaeng University's Faculty of Political Science, Wutthisak Larpcharoensup, as chariman of the committee to study the royal pardon petition for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, called the panel's first meeting today.

The meeting lasted almost one and a half hours before one of the panel members, Thongthong Chantarangsu, came out to say that today's conference did not go into details as it only looked at facts and laid out important factors that should be considered.

One of the major factors is to look into the Criminal Procedure Code and other relevant laws to scrutinize whether the petitioners have the legal right to sign Thaksin's royal pardon request.

Moreover, Thongthong said the panel will study all related laws and previous amnesty cases to find out whether Thaksin would have to serve a jail time before a royal pardon request can be submitted.

He pointed out that the committee will collect opinions from all panel members and present their findings to the justice minister for a final decision.

Thongthong went on to say that the panel has not set a time frame to complete the process.

The next meeting is scheduled for September 22.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-09

Isn't TAN just another "news" outlet owned by / affiliated with Sondi?

[KKK]

It doesn't..The King ratifies amnesties as head of state. Others make the decision who gets one. Just like the British Queen, she doesn't decide who gets knighthoods...she just doles them out....

So what you are saying is that a Royal Pardon is a political act and it is down to the government who gets one - the King only ratifies what is presented to him???

If so it would seem that the outcome here is virtually a given - provided the law is followed, which does appear to be a tad flexible in this case.

yes that's the way I understand it....the king, who is outside politics, takes and ratifies what his government puts before him. Isn't that what a democratic monarchy is all about...

I am not entirely sure on this as I understood the Kings position to be above politics rather than outside of it.This scenario almost seems to be placing him in a position whereby the politicians are making decisions that he has to follow.

Unfortunately we are already stepping on dubious ground regarding what can be discussed here.

Again that's how I see it..and I think you'll find it the case for all or most constitutional (democratic) monarchy states. The King or Queen, as in the UKs case, is a non-political head of state in which the monarch has strictly ceremonial duties or may have reserve powers, depending on the constitution. This is not the case with the USA. There the president as head of state is political. I'm happy to stop at this point....

[lannarebirth]

"I believe Pol Lt-Col Thaksin, who graduated from the police academy and finished a Phd in criminology, knows all the procedures," Mr Purachai added.

But the Thai police academies Phd in criminology is in 'how to be one', not 'how to catch one'...just ask any policeman..

He got his Phd at Sam Houston State University in the states. If there is something below third tier school, then this would fall in that category. Along those same lines, I'm thinking of opening up Ken's Bank and offer long term CD's at very attractive rates.