Israeli ministers meet to discuss Israel-Turkey crisis

[Steely Dan]

Also I would not be 100% sure that the whole mess is resolved in any sector nor that the blockade will continue to be considered legal.

U.N. experts say Israel's blockade of Gaza illegal

PS: the pacifier is an appropriate touch

The Passifier was for Erdogan but if you disinfect it I'm sure you can share.

A panel of five independent U.N. rights experts reporting to the U.N. Human Rights Council rejected that conclusion, saying the blockade had subjected Gazans to collective punishment in "flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law".

As for your link, the UNHRC says all that needs to be known about it's neutrality.

But we are dancing on the head of a pin here in the grand scheme of things, I continue to be amazed that someone with such a fine tinfoil hat seems blind to the Cypriot-Israeli oil and gas exploration as the real reason for Turkey's indignation.

[Wallaby]

Some rely on the UN to verify their view, but only when it suits.

[flying]

I continue to be amazed that someone with such a fine tinfoil hat seems blind to the Cypriot-Israeli oil and gas exploration as the real reason for Turkey's indignation.

I see....so now the whole topic is changed to the oil & gas dealings eh?

Ok lets try it........

The flotilla was a strategic move designed steps in advance...knowing they would be attacked & later after the gas deal claim

use indignation over the flotilla & the dead just as a smoke screen of the REAL issue...the gas.

Cunning Turks! They should be chess masters

Yeah sure buddy & I am the one with the tin foil eh?

Edited September 19, 2011 by flying

[flying]

Some rely on the UN to verify their view, but only when it suits.

You know what they say.....

If you like sausage or political policy never watch either being made

[Steely Dan]

Some rely on the UN to verify their view, but only when it suits.

You are quite correct, that's Erdogan to a tee. :jap:

[Scott]

Tin foil isn't expensive. There are plenty of the hats around.

Keep on the topic of the thread. Diversions need to be tied into the main subject material of the thread. Tin foil hats are not acceptable as a diversion.

Thanks.

[Steely Dan]

I continue to be amazed that someone with such a fine tinfoil hat seems blind to the Cypriot-Israeli oil and gas exploration as the real reason for Turkey's indignation.

I see....so now the whole topic is changed to the oil & gas dealings eh?

Ok lets try it........

The flotilla was a strategic move designed steps in advance...knowing they would be attacked & later after the gas deal claim

indignation over the flotilla & the dead as just a smoke screen of the REAL issue...the gas.

Yeah sure buddy & I am the one with the tin foil eh?

As far as I'm aware the OT is the Israel-Turkey crisis not the sinking of a U.S ship 44 years ago, in that respect a Cypriot-Israeli gas exploration deal, which Erdogan terms a 'provocation' and has threatened to mobilize his navy to stop is central to the topic. I think Erdogan needs to have his patella checked seeing as it has taken this long since the death of the activists for him to break off relations with Israel, and coincidentally only after a purge of his own military. Incidentally the Israeli Leviathan gas field is enormous.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1713023/israel-cyprus-reach-agreement-on-leviathan-levant-basin-natural-gas-field-near-lebanon-and-g

[flying]

Tin foil isn't expensive. There are plenty of the hats around.

Keep on the topic of the thread. Diversions need to be tied into the main subject material of the thread. Tin foil hats are not acceptable as a diversion.

Thanks.

I agree & at the end of the day it is just opinions

The world has opinions some say the Israeli actions were justified others say they were not.

As you said diversions need to be tied into the topic.

The USS Liberty as I included in previous posts is tied as legitimate & obvious precedent.

The two events are very similar in action & result. Both incidents occurred in international waters.

Both were at the time of attack unprovoked.

To be precise, Mavi Marmara was 72 nautical miles off the coast of Israel and 64 nautical miles away from the Israeli-imposed “Gaza blockade area”.Israeli commandos boarding from sea and air attacked the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara and killed eight Turkish nationals and a 19-year-old Turkish American. I am not clear how many were wounded.

The USS Liberty was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish. Israel killed 34 crew members & injured 170!

Sadly this event with the flotilla was actually the first time that Turkish civilians were killed in peacetime by units of an organised army. Also no real investigation can be claimed to have been achieved.

Since right to introduce evidence which supports the Turks was never allowed. All evidence having been confiscated by the Israeli's.

Not unlike the lack of investigation into the USS Liberty incident.... The attack remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [u.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [u.S.] Congress.

[flying]

As far as I'm aware the OT is the Israel-Turkey crisis not the sinking of a U.S ship 44 years ago,

Actually OT can be confusing as I guess you meant on or original topic? Usually OT is off topic.

That aside the original topic states...

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet DavutoÄŸlu had previously announced that Israel's ambassador and senior diplomats had been expelled from the country. The announcement was made as Israel has refused to apologize and issue compensations for the families of those killed during the Gaza flotilla raid, as well as end its blockade of Palestinians residing in Gaza.

So the original topic clearly states it is fueled by the flotilla raid & resulting deaths...along with the lack of apology or compensation. If we are to stay on topic that is what the topic is.

Seems like an easy out for the Israeli's & if I were them I would take it.

Sorry if you think the USS Liberty is not valid but the similarities are there for all to see.

In fact if Israel took the easy out mentioned it would again mimic the USS Liberty.

Where as stated in my previous post ...

The attack remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [u.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [u.S.] Congress

Personally I think Congress was negligent

Also note in that event Israel did end up paying compensations...

In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the U.S. claim of $7,644,146 for material damage to the Liberty itself.

They should just do the same with this situation since it seems Turkey would be open to it by their comments in the original topic quoted above

Edited September 19, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

Please, please, please STOP with the USS Liberty spamming. The American political factions interested in that already know all about it. It's like you're an evangelist. For what? Not hard to guess. Your rationalizations to make that on topic to THIS current events thread -- epic fail.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

No it was Israeli troops who were clearly the thugs here, attacking the flotilla in international waters murdering 9 people, and injuring more than 30.

The crew fought back in self defense.

Funny how several other ships were boarded which had real peace activists on and nobody was injured at all on them, but just the Turkish one filled with hate mongering Hamas activists caused any problems, but don't let mere facts get in the way of your prejudices.

Challenger 1 boarding

Activist Huwaida Arraf reported that Israeli soldiers attacked those who tried to block them with kicks, tasers, and concussion grenades,[99] and that some people were beaten so severely that they had to be hospitalized.[110] Arraf said that the Israelis smashed her face against the ground and stepped on it, and that they later handcuffed her and put a bag over her head.[111] Another woman similarly had a bag placed over her head.[98] First mate Shane Dillon reported that Israeli troops broke the nose of a Belgian woman and beat another passenger.[107] Australian photojournalist Kate Geraghty was tasered while attempting to photograph the raid

There were injuries on the other boats.

[Pakboong]

I continue to be amazed that someone with such a fine tinfoil hat seems blind to the Cypriot-Israeli oil and gas exploration as the real reason for Turkey's indignation.

I see....so now the whole topic is changed to the oil & gas dealings eh?

Ok lets try it........

The flotilla was a strategic move designed steps in advance...knowing they would be attacked & later after the gas deal claim

use indignation over the flotilla & the dead just as a smoke screen of the REAL issue...the gas.

Cunning Turks! They should be chess masters

Yeah sure buddy & I am the one with the tin foil eh?

Don't hog all the credit for the tin foil hats, I have several.

[Pakboong]

As far as I'm aware the OT is the Israel-Turkey crisis not the sinking of a U.S ship 44 years ago,

Actually OT can be confusing as I guess you meant on or original topic? Usually OT is off topic.

That aside the original topic states...

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet DavutoÄŸlu had previously announced that Israel's ambassador and senior diplomats had been expelled from the country. The announcement was made as Israel has refused to apologize and issue compensations for the families of those killed during the Gaza flotilla raid, as well as end its blockade of Palestinians residing in Gaza.

So the original topic clearly states it is fueled by the flotilla raid & resulting deaths...along with the lack of apology or compensation. If we are to stay on topic that is what the topic is.

Seems like an easy out for the Israeli's & if I were them I would take it.

Sorry if you think the USS Liberty is not valid but the similarities are there for all to see.

In fact if Israel took the easy out mentioned it would again mimic the USS Liberty.

Where as stated in my previous post ...

The attack remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [u.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [u.S.] Congress

Personally I think Congress was negligent

Also note in that event Israel did end up paying compensations...

In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the U.S. claim of $7,644,146 for material damage to the Liberty itself.

They should just do the same with this situation since it seems Turkey would be open to it by their comments in the original topic quoted above

Secretary of State Dean Rusk said later that he considered the payments meaningless, as Congress merely increased the annual Israeli allotment by that amount.

[Jingthing]

I got news for you. Most Jews want a Palestinian state TOO. Alongside the Jewish state of Israel. Most Palestinians do NOT want that. I hope you appreciate the difference.

BTW, anyone who knows my posting history knows full well I am most certainly NOT someone who thinks Israel can do no wrong. Such people exist but not me. For example, about the settlement policies in the west bank, about the creeping theocracy there, etc. I simply don't think the USS Liberty incident is currently relevant and evidence shows this is a hot issue only for fringe extremists.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[Scott]

OK, now we'll try again. First, Flying, thanks for the explanation of the connection of the events 44 years ago to the topic.

It's good to know the current situation is not a precedent. However, the topic is about Israel-Turkey relations.

A number of posts (8, I believe), that are off topic or replies to off-topic posts have been deleted.

[Ulysses G.]

Would it be hard for those cheerleaders who constantly trot out videos to realize it looks like/smells like one sided propaganda?

It has been said numerous times only one side is allowed to even have videos because everything audio/video belonging to the ship was confiscated.

This is not factual. Al Jazeera and others on board released footage of the casualties and swore that the activists had not resisted in any way - of course they did not show what happened on the deck with the Turkish mercenaries. When the Israeli army footage came out later, they suddenly changed their story.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

http://www.debka.com/article/21316/

Quite an interesting article this. Erdogan holds the smoking gun behind Abbas's refusal to back down over a Palestinian UN vote and furthermore Turkey refuses to share information with Israel from missile shield monitors stationed in Turkey.

The U.S top brass are currently trying to talk Turkey down, but will they play chicken?