Female Party Married Without Marriage-Registration?

[galvheim]

Hi,

Maybe I'm just paranoid or something, but I'm always on the lookout for anything beeing strange and like to clearify them as soon as I see them.

In this case I just got my Marriage Registration translated to English and on the page called Memorandum where they state different facts about us as persons, the first statement was difficult to understand for me.

It says: 1) The female party has been married without marriage registration, having 2 children, 2 females.

How do I understand this one? Is it saying that she has been married earlier without registering it, and if so, how would the people in Amphoe know this, if she was trying to keep it secret? Because I have earlier asked she about this, and she has always said no, but some other things I've seen and heard has made me wonder. So could anyone tell me how to read and understand that one?

[Mario2008]

How I read it is that she had a relationship out of which relation 2 girls where born before she got married to you. That relationship was not an official marriage, but only a bhuddist ceremony.

It is important as it goes to the question who has parental powers over these children. Basicly it says that you are not the fahter of these children.

EDIT:

Moved to family section as most suitable forum.

[galvheim]

How I read it is that she had a relationship out of which relation 2 girls where born before she got married to you. That relationship was not an official marriage, but only a bhuddist ceremony.

It is important as it goes to the question who has parental powers over these children. Basicly it says that you are not the fahter of these children.

EDIT:

Moved to family section as most suitable forum.

But still they are using the word marriage and also you say that there might have been a buddhist ceremony involved - how cartain can you be of this? Could this have been written in any other way if they where just a normal gf/bf couple that had two kids but never done anything ceremonial about their relationship? Would there be a way for her to have these two kids and that former relationshsip without them having to use the words "married without marriage-registration?"

Couldn't it say somethings in the lines of a "unmarried in relationship...." or something similar?

[SteeleJoe]

Some guy with legal knowledge will probably come along and answer this and perhaps more accurately but I'm going to go ahead anyway...

Being "married" in Thailand means living with someone and having a sexual relationship -- not necessarily a registered marriage. That doesn't mean it's being kept secret, it just means for whatever reason people haven't legalized it (often -- but NOT always -- people have a ceremony without a registration but even before that may be viewed as "married" if they live together already).

I suspect she was asked if she'd been married legally or had a common law husband and/or any children with another man (I think my wife was asked as well but given how long we'd been together by the time we got married and the fact that we were together from when we were both young -- but she even more than me - they might not have asked)...and your wife said "yes". They aren't going to type "previously had kids while shacking up with a guy", they're going to say something a bit more culturally appropriate and very common.

Clearly there's a trust issue here. Is it possible that she just assumed you'd never know what they put down and didn't want to lie to a government official and submit a fraudulent document (a serious offense) so told them in Thai? (I'm guessing you don't speak Thai and don't really know what was said that day).

Pardon me for saying so, and I may not only be completely out of line for mentioning it but absolutely wrong -- but I'm guessing you don't know your wife all that well and that might be a problem...

Edited September 15, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[Mario2008]

Only a wedding registration at the at the amphur is considered a legal wedding.

Yes, they could have written it in an otherway, it depends also on the translation. They simply chose this way. The important thing is that it clearly say it was not an official marriage.

The people at the amphur probably asked her because she has two children without oficially being married. If they didn't ask,they probsbly presumed it was an onofficial marriage. Many people in Thailand don't register their marriage at the amphur, or do so after a long time.

If you ask my wife when we got married, she will answer the date we had the buddhist ceremoney and not the marriage registration at the amphur.

[galvheim]

Some guy with legal knowledge will probably come along and answer this and perhaps more accurately but I'm going to go ahead anyway...

Being "married" in Thailand means living with someone and having a sexual relationship -- not necessarily a registered marriage. That doesn't mean it's being kept secret, it just means for whatever reason people haven't legalized it (often -- but NOT always -- people have a ceremony without a registration but even before that may be viewed as "married" if they live together already).

I suspect she was asked if she'd been married legally or had a common law husband and/or any children with another man (I think my wife was asked as well but given how long we'd been together by the time we got married and the fact that we were together from when we were both young -- but she even more than me - they might not have asked)...and your wife said "yes". They aren't going to type "previously had kids while shacking up with a guy", they're going to say something a bit more culturally appropriate and very common.

Clearly there's a trust issue here. Is it possible that she just assumed you'd never know what they put down and didn't want to lie to a government official and submit a fraudulent document (a serious offense) so told them in Thai? (I'm guessing you don't speak Thai and don't really know what was said that day).

Pardon me for saying so, and I may not only be completely out of line for mentioning it but absolutely wrong -- but I'm guessing you don't know your wife all that well and that might be a problem...

I speak Thai more than most farangs, but I don't read it. I have known her for 3 years, but certain things can only be known by trust. There have been many things suggesting and telling me that there have been going on a double-game, and it is extra difficult when she is using lao language and Khomein language as much as she use Thai. The reason I ask about this, is that the story she have told me is that she never ever did have any ceremony with that guy, but I find that strange since I know the culture where she come from. This is not an easy one since, yes, there have been certain things itching my brain regarding this, and my gut-feeling has always been a little uncertain. I will go to amphoe and ask about this on monday and see if they can clarify things a little. It is also very possible that they do this as a polite thing, but for me its just fueling my paranoia.

The simple question in my brain is: Which person does she feel really married to? Since there is a money-issue in this relationship, that is a perfectly valid question to ask, seeing where she comes from and how difficult things would be if I pulled out.

Edited September 15, 2011 by galvheim

[SteeleJoe]

Galvheim: I've re-read your post and wonder what is the issue? Are/were you aware that she was in a previous relationship and had 2 kids? If so, is it that she has said she was never married but now you see the word "married" and are bothered by that?

If it's the word that's bothering you, I think you attach too much significance to it. It simply isn't always quite the same as how it's used in English.

And maybe she is being totally honest in saying that by your definition she was never married.

[SteeleJoe]

Oops, hadn't seen your last post before my last. Quickly (got to tuck the kids in):

1) You may speak more Thai most Farangs (which frankly isn't saying much) but that does not mean you know enough to understand what was being said -- do you?

2) It would be sort of odd for her to use both Lao and Khmer with Amphur...

3) Common law marriages do NOT always feature a ceremony.

4) Why do you care if she had a ceremony?

5) If there is such a lack of trust, I think you have bigger issues than the certificate.

[KhaoNiaw]

It's quite possible that she didn't have any marriage ceremony at all. Quite obviously she has been in a relationship that was blessed with two children. If the relationship was with a local man, it is much more likely that there would have been a ceremony. But as pointed out already, that has no bearing on the legal status of marriage.

[galvheim]

She did only speak Thai with the Amphor. When talking about mixing three languages, I talk about when staying in her home and overhearing her phonecalls. It also be very easy for her to talk over my head in Thai, since it is not fluent.

I guess I am putting too much significance in this, and that I would think other people in her home who clearly not like her, would open their mouth long time ago if there was anything they knew that could make things more difficult for she. But as I said earlier, I prefer to sort things out quickly even if that may often make me look like a jealous idiot.

[SteeleJoe]

She did only speak Thai with the Amphor. When talking about mixing three languages, I talk about when staying in her home and overhearing her phonecalls. It also be very easy for her to talk over my head in Thai, since it is not fluent.

I guess I am putting too much significance in this, and that I would think other people in her home who clearly not like her, would open their mouth long time ago if there was anything they knew that could make things more difficult for she. But as I said earlier, I prefer to sort things out quickly even if that may often make me look like a jealous idiot.

Ah, I see. You mean you also have concerns about what she's saying on the phone (and/or that she is using Isaarn dialects to conceal the content of her conversations)?

Jealous idiot or not, I can't say. But again: that you have these worries -- which may or may not be a result of her actions or character or whatever or just you being paranoid -- tells me that there's a serious lack of trust and you perhaps don't know her very well. You said it here:

I have known her for 3 years, but certain things can only be known by trust.

I wouldn't expct you to answer but I can't help but wonder -- why get married to someone without the aforementioned trust?

PS: You have my sympathy in any case. Legitimate or not, o doubt these suspicions are not pleasant for you and if you are in a relationship where you are being deceived or feel as if you may be...that's got to hurt.

You need to deal with that, in my (nosy, presumptuous and unsolicited) opinion.

Edited September 15, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[rgs2001uk]

Quote from the OP, 'I speak Thai more than most farangs, but I don't read it'

As has been mentioned before, how much Thai do you actually speak? If you as a farang speak as much Thai as you claim you should be well versed by now in how Thai society operates.

What exactly is the issue here, the fact that the woman has two children, the fact that she lived together without registering a marriage, jealous of a 'brother' in the background, being asked for sin sot, your own insecurities?

I honestly dont know what you want us to tell you.

However one thing I have learned is, if something doesnt feel right and your sixth sense kicks in, it usually means something is amiss, take that any way you want.

[OZEMADE]

All it's saying is that she has been married before and has 2 children from that marriage, it was a Buddist marriage (Thai Marriage), which is not a legal marriage. She or he could have walked out of the marriage.

If you had a marriage at a Amphur it is legally recognised in most countries

[soundman]

Moved to new Marriage and Divorce forum.

[7by7]

Maybe she had a Buddhist marriage before, or maybe it was simply a living together relationship which the translator has put down as marriage. What's important is that the relationship is now over and she is legally married to you.

You obviously knew about this previous relationship as she has two children.

My wife is from Bangkok and speaks Thai, but many of the Thai women living in our area of the UK are from Issan and speak both Thai and Laos. My wife gets a bit frustrated sometimes when they switch between the two without thinking. The same as my wife and daughter switch between Thai and English when we three are talking. They even switch between English and Thai when talking to each other. It's not done to hide anything or to exclude; it's simply done without thinking, automatically.

I suspect your wife's change of language on the phone is the same.

However, it does seem that you have trust issues; in which case one has to wonder why you didn't sort those out before you married her!