It is not like the EURO has a choice of where to look any more than anyone else.

It is all connected...hopefully for not much longer

Perhaps this explains it better...

Euro Crisis Makes Fed Lender of Only Resort as Banks Chase Dollar Funding

The European Central Bank (I think that's what it's called) will presumably go to the Fed, but that doesn't solve the problems of the individual countries. If Greece defaults, the whole Eurozone would be shaken, but could probably survive; if any of the larger countries goes, it will be like a series of ninepins. As somebody said earlier, the really big banks cannot be allowed to collapse, or they will take too much more with them. The US cannot shore up everybody; it's in enough debt trouble itself.

The European Central Bank (I think that's what it's called) will presumably go to the Fed, but that doesn't solve the problems of the individual countries. If Greece defaults, the whole Eurozone would be shaken, but could probably survive; if any of the larger countries goes, it will be like a series of ninepins. As somebody said earlier, the really big banks cannot be allowed to collapse, or they will take too much more with them. The US cannot shore up everybody; it's in enough debt trouble itself.

Note the title of the last article I posted

They called the FED the the Lender of Only resort

Not the usual last resort

Greece will fall IMO it is a given.

Italy? They need 200 Billion Euros by years end. What of the interest on just that principal?...If they find it in the first place.

This thinking of Too Big Too Fail is the problem.

Yes they will take something with them but the alternative is this propping which in the end results in TOTAL Collapse.

The US & the Euro instead reward the failures with that which does not exist & puts the whole at risk. This method of kicking the can down the road always ends with the road ending & at that time the can has grown so much bigger it can no longer be kicked & rolls back crushing everything.

“There is no means of avoiding a final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.” – Ludwig von Mises

Edited September 29, 201114 yr by flying

I was under the impression that the FED was already supplying $$ all be it by means of a swap agreementCash to Europe

For some reason the identity of the borrowers is not revealed.

I was under the impression that the FED was already supplying $$ all be it by means of a swap agreementCash to Europe

For some reason the identity of the borrowers is not revealed.

According to the article you linked, it is not that the US Federal Reserve unilaterally saves Europe by supplying dollars in a swap agreement. It appears you did not understand the article correctly. In fact, a number of central banks from across three continents are joining hands:

"[The] European Central Bank ... was acting in cooperation with the Federal Reserve of the United States, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan and the Swiss National Bank."

Actually depending which article you read:

see this Federal reserve boosts flow of $

it really almost does look like the FED is supplying. In this article it reads as FED is supplying ECB and other major banks. It makes you wonder whether some is going directly and others going indirectly but ostensibly from the same source.

Actually depending which article you read:

see this Federal reserve boosts flow of $

it really almost does look like the FED is supplying. In this article it reads as FED is supplying ECB and other major banks. It makes you wonder whether some is going directly and others going indirectly but ostensibly from the same source.

True: It depends on which article you read, and which newspaper you choose to believe.

Yikes, I wish the current decision-makers would hand all information to ThaiVisa, and then we would decide for them what to do.

Actually depending which article you read:

see this Federal reserve boosts flow of $

it really almost does look like the FED is supplying. In this article it reads as FED is supplying ECB and other major banks. It makes you wonder whether some is going directly and others going indirectly but ostensibly from the same source.

True: It depends on which article you read, and which newspaper you choose to believe.

Yikes, I wish the current decision-makers would hand all information to ThaiVisa, and then we would decide for them what to do.

We couldn't do worse than they do!

Actually depending which article you read:

see this Federal reserve boosts flow of $

it really almost does look like the FED is supplying. In this article it reads as FED is supplying ECB and other major banks. It makes you wonder whether some is going directly and others going indirectly but ostensibly from the same source.

True: It depends on which article you read, and which newspaper you choose to believe.

Yikes, I wish the current decision-makers would hand all information to ThaiVisa, and then we would decide for them what to do.

We couldn't do worse than they do!

I don't know why you feel compelled to say this. Obviously, all the experts in this field are posting in thisThaiVisa thread, so I sincerely think that the world leaders should consult with us before making any decisions.

I sincerely think that the world leaders should consult with us before making any decisions.

I think you would be very surprised at who those leaders are.

Reading your other post about how banks use to be ethical...

I think you should study how banks work & have always worked....You may again be surprised.

perhaps the answer lies in kicking out the Germans and French. The rest of us seem fairly happy with our lot....

perhaps the answer lies in kicking out the Germans and French. The rest of us seem fairly happy with our lot....

LOL! And without the Germans and the French, who would foot the bill?

Can't find the source but a serious source suggested that to solve the Greece problem it was possible to use the same system that was used to integrated East Germany in West Germany, a broke, inefficient country into one of the best performing economy. The system can work and, even better, be profitable in the long term for the European Union.

The problem is this solution is not what the "market" prefers, they wouldn't be able to buy dirt cheap the assets of Greece. Some people on the other side of the Atlantic who dream of breaking the Euro are said to be not too happy either.

Actually depending which article you read:

see this Federal reserve boosts flow of $

it really almost does look like the FED is supplying. In this article it reads as FED is supplying ECB and other major banks. It makes you wonder whether some is going directly and others going indirectly but ostensibly from the same source.

Bill O'Reilly of FAUX News will soon bitch about the "billyons the FED hands out as a free gift to unwilling Yewrope"

Can't find the source but a serious source suggested that to solve the Greece problem it was possible to use the same system that was used to integrated East Germany in West Germany, a broke, inefficient country into one of the best performing economy. The system can work and, even better, be profitable in the long term for the European Union.

The problem is this solution is not what the "market" prefers, they wouldn't be able to buy dirt cheap the assets of Greece. Some people on the other side of the Atlantic who dream of breaking the Euro are said to be not too happy either.

1. it was German taxpayers fully financing the reintegration of a part of Germany.

2. the "dirt cheap" Greek assets are dirt cheap because they are dirt.

3. i fully agree with your assumption that some people across the Atlantic are not too happy.

Can't find the source but a serious source suggested that to solve the Greece problem it was possible to use the same system that was used to integrated East Germany in West Germany, a broke, inefficient country into one of the best performing economy. The system can work and, even better, be profitable in the long term for the European Union.

The problem is this solution is not what the "market" prefers, they wouldn't be able to buy dirt cheap the assets of Greece. Some people on the other side of the Atlantic who dream of breaking the Euro are said to be not too happy either.

1. it was German taxpayers fully financing the reintegration of a part of Germany.

2. the "dirt cheap" Greek assets are dirt cheap because they are dirt.

3. i fully agree with your assumption that some people across the Atlantic are not too happy.

In other words, the German solution wouldn't work because it would involve integrating Greece with whoever paid the bill, presumably Germany. But the German taxpayers are going to have to foot much of the bill whatever the solution.

In other words, the German solution wouldn't work because it would involve integrating Greece with whoever paid the bill, presumably Germany. But the German taxpayers are going to have to foot much of the bill whatever the solution.

So what is the current situation?

A friend of mine has a company working in construction in Greece (it's a Romanian company, with contracts in Greece)

He makes/installs PVC windows and doors. He was not allowed to import his own manufactured goods, so had to dismantle a factory and bring it to Greece. Now he finds he cannor re-export the machinery.

His Greek sub-contractors work an eight-hour day, including a four-hour siesta. Admittedly he pays them only 2,000 euros a month, but that is all the work he can get out of them.

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

So if Germany assumes the Greeks' debt and they become part of Germany, would the lazy bastards have to get back on their feet and WORK for a living? Or would the Germans ship a lot of their Turkish population down to Greece? That would be interesting.

So what is the current situation?

Basically, Germany doesn't want to pull the plug, so the contingency fund is being increased, and Greece will get the next tranche of the bailout money. (I think two or three of the smaller countries still have to vote on the contingency fund, but are unlikely to go against Germany and France)

This actually changes very little; it just buys time.

Sarkozy doesn't want to pull the plug, because it's coming up to election time.

Italy is the next biggest, I think, and will probably soon need help itself.

The prognosis is not very good.

In other words, the German solution wouldn't work because it would involve integrating Greece with whoever paid the bill, presumably Germany. But the German taxpayers are going to have to foot much of the bill whatever the solution.

So what is the current situation?

A friend of mine has a company working in construction in Greece (it's a Romanian company, with contracts in Greece)

He makes/installs PVC windows and doors. He was not allowed to import his own manufactured goods, so had to dismantle a factory and bring it to Greece. Now he finds he cannor re-export the machinery.

His Greek sub-contractors work an eight-hour day, including a four-hour siesta. Admittedly he pays them only 2,000 euros a month, but that is all the work he can get out of them.

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

So if Germany assumes the Greeks' debt and they become part of Germany, would the lazy bastards have to get back on their feet and WORK for a living? Or would the Germans ship a lot of their Turkish population down to Greece? That would be interesting.

please have mercy Humphrey! we are bullshitted anyway from all sides, no need for additional bullshitting² from your PVC-friend

please have mercy Humphrey! we are bullshitted anyway from all sides, no need for additional bullshitting² from your PVC-friend

That's what he told me, less than a week ago.

I'm in Vietnam, where a loaf of bread costs 48,000 dong (just under two euros) and a beer costs 25,000 - 35,000 in a normal bar. Tiger draught, San Miguel draft and SML draft all costing around 25,000 dong.

Greece has announced that it will not be able to achieve the targeted budget deficit cuts this year or next.

The next tranche of the bailout money is supposed to be dependent on achieving those cuts.

Therefore a default looms closer.

please have mercy Humphrey! we are bullshitted anyway from all sides, no need for additional bullshitting² from your PVC-friend

That's what he told me, less than a week ago.

I'm in Vietnam, where a loaf of bread costs 48,000 dong (just under two euros) and a beer costs 25,000 - 35,000 in a normal bar. Tiger draught, San Miguel draft and SML draft all costing around 25,000 dong.

if that's what he told you he must have consumed a lot of cheap booze within a short period of time and used cowrie shells, not €URos, his pricing

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.21 €

Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.55 €

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.81 €

Edited October 3, 201114 yr by Naam

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.21 €

Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.55 €

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.81 €

Those are shop prices. How much does beer cost in a bar/restaurant?

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.21 €

Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.55 €

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.81 €

Those are shop prices. How much does beer cost in a bar/restaurant?

3500 baht, one phone, and a good kicking.

THen I paid for it again in the morning.

If its only costing you money, you're not really drinking

SC

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.21 €

Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.55 €

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.81 €

Those are shop prices. How much does beer cost in a bar/restaurant?

3500 baht, one phone, and a good kicking.

THen I paid for it again in the morning.

If its only costing you money, you're not really drinking

SC

SC: This is a fancy way of saying "what's your point", but I too am looking forward to seeing koheesti's reply.

...

...

...

3500 baht, one phone, and a good kicking.

THen I paid for it again in the morning.

If its only costing you money, you're not really drinking

SC

SC: This is a fancy way of saying "what's your point", but I too am looking forward to seeing koheesti's reply.

My point was that if the cost of beer bothers you, then why not abstain?

SC

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.21 €

Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.55 €

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.81 €

Those are shop prices. How much does beer cost in a bar/restaurant?

definitely NOT €UR14! and as far bread is concerned... who buys a loaf of bread in a bar or a restaurant?

beer prices Greece different geographic locations:

City Price

Agios Nikolaos €4 EUR

Ano Symi €5.9 EUR

Argostolion €3.42 EUR

Athens €5.5 EUR

Cephalonia €1.39 EUR

Chalandri €5.5 EUR

Corfu €2.66 EUR

Crete €3 EUR

Cyclades €7.08 EUR

Dodecanese Islands €5.9 EUR

Elio-Proni €0.93 EUR

Esperii €1 EUR

Fira €4 EUR

Florina €1 EUR

Heraklion €4 EUR

Ierapetra €1.11 EUR

Iraklion €2.5 EUR

Kallithea €2.5 EUR

Kalymnos €3.54 EUR

Kardamyla €1.99 EUR

Karditsa €1 EUR

Kavos €5 EUR

Khania €2.75 EUR

Kos €3.27 EUR

Lindos €3.5 EUR

Malia €1.92 EUR

Methoni €1.99 EUR

Myrtos €2.19 EUR

Oia €4.65 EUR

Parga €4 EUR

Rethimnon €1.99 EUR

Rhodes €2.36 EUR

Serrai €2.78 EUR

Taminei €3 EUR

Thassos,potos,limenas. €5 EUR

Thessalonika €4.35 EUR

Tingaki €2.97 EUR

14 €URos beer case claim labelled "BS" and dismissed!

NEXT!

In aswer to the original question..."How do you get out of debt?"

Answer,.. one small step at a time. Canada's debt was getting out of control about 25 years ago and we brought in a GST (goods and services tax). It's been a bit of a boondoggle, but at least we paid off the worst of our debt. Fortunately, Canada is a resource wealthy country and we've done what needed to be done... even though it made the rich, richer on the backs of the great middle class who ALWAYS carry the load.

If its only costing you money, you're not really drinking

How true.

A loaf of bread costs eight euros, a beer fourteen.

Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.21 €

Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.55 €

Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.81 €

Those are shop prices. How much does beer cost in a bar/restaurant?

definitely NOT €UR14! and as far bread is concerned... who buys a loaf of bread in a bar or a restaurant?

I'm not taking sides, simply pointing out that usually when people talk about how much a beer costs in whatever country, they aren't talking about what it costs in the store - unless that person likes to hang out in front of 7-11 with 35 baht Chang. As for bread, you are right, peopke don't buy bread in a restaurant although, last February I was up in Estonia and was supposed to pick up a loaf of bread for an Estonian expat back in another country and they had closed (or moved) all the shops in the historic Old Town so I had to get a loaf from a restaurant. I didn't pay for it though.

Back to the topic...

The US and the EU are waiting to see who collapses first. In the event they both collapse, well, that'll suck.

Back to the topic...

The US and the EU are waiting to see who collapses first. In the event they both collapse, well, that'll suck.

The damages are there already for both.

If I had to hazard a guess the USD will not collapse in the same way as the Euro.

They are in fact both collapsing as we speak. But the US can print ad nauseum

That is not to suggest it is a cure...far from it as it actually makes it all worse & makes the final curtain more likely catastrophic.

But the US can in a sense continue to bail the banks....the ones they want to of course.

Through various printing forms.

Where as in Europe as the banks fall the individual countries may not survive. Look at Greece....

They cannot save themselves....

Next if Italy's banks go there is a good chance they will take France's banks with them.Because France has too much of Italy's debt

Spain??...good luck

Germany is strong but how long will their tax payers put up with this?

Not that they are putting up with it now as they seem quite upset.

It is obvious by recent events in the markets & due to the way the Central Banking system worldwide works

that any problem worldwide is pretty much everyone's problem these days.

So as to which will collapse first? I just think they collapse differently but both are damaged beyond repair IMHO

It is a domino effect & the falling has started & with it more falling is occurring.

What needs doing will not be done so the path is clear cut.

Both in a controlled crash but nothing to suggest at any moment a stall couldn't occur & snap roll both right into the turf of a deep depression.

Edited October 4, 201114 yr by flying