The Dangers Of Cultural And Historical Ignorance: Thai Opinion

[F1fanatic]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

[Mosha]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

Thailand (Siam) Attacked Cambodia when the Thai king demanded they hand over their white elephant. Siem Reap means the 'Flat Defeat of Siam' or something like that. There was probably more to it, but that was one story I picked up.

[cmsally]

Me thinks the Nation has been reading Thai Visa.

Having never seen the use of "asinine" in the Nation before and having used it myself in the Nazi parade topic a few days ago. Also the discussion of Thai race came up in that topic as well.

This could be fun; maybe we could start a few other topics and have direct influence on the Nation editorial.

Can I put forward a few other topics: such as the use of self parody and constructive criticism in developing a society

Then we can have : how far can moral and social issues be ignored in the interest of economic gain

I thought the same thing.

Several of the points have been discussed here on TVF about this story. I find it satisfying that someone at Nation slogs through the debris and food fights, and finds the real nuggets of well thought out ideas, and quite appropriately writes about it.

It touched on the ultra-nationalism in Thailand,and that no doubt is a core issue for the education and attitudes of Thais.

Thailand is a very young nation at a cross roads of cultures, and early on Nationalism was used as a method of molding and holding together disparate groups into one homogenized group 'Thais'. The problem is now that the job is done, it is self-perpetuating, it rolls on to the detriment of the Nation and it's image of itself and that of it's neighbors and the world. Also interesting to see them admit Thais are hated by their neighbors for their superoir attitude towards them. Honesty long overdue.

One almost wonders if the author wrote it in the departure lounge of Suvarnabhumi Airport and is well out of here by now!

Actually I think he was already hated enough not to care.

And that is even MORE rare here.

Maybe he had had a few beers!

He could be regretting it at this very moment!

[cmsally]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

Thailand (Siam) Attacked Cambodia when the Thai king demanded they hand over their white elephant. Siem Reap means the 'Flat Defeat of Siam' or something like that. There was probably more to it, but that was one story I picked up.

I read somewhere that "Siem" in Khmer meant thief and that is where the word Siam is derived from. Anybody can verify??

[SteeleJoe]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

Thailand (Siam) Attacked Cambodia when the Thai king demanded they hand over their white elephant. Siem Reap means the 'Flat Defeat of Siam' or something like that. There was probably more to it, but that was one story I picked up.

I read somewhere that "Siem" in Khmer meant thief and that is where the word Siam is derived from. Anybody can verify??

Say what?!

It's not Khmer, as far as I know. It's from Sanskrit and while I can't remember what it means, it's not "thief".

Oh and Siam/Thailand has -- like most kingdoms, I suppose -- has invaded a few places.

[cmsally]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

Thailand (Siam) Attacked Cambodia when the Thai king demanded they hand over their white elephant. Siem Reap means the 'Flat Defeat of Siam' or something like that. There was probably more to it, but that was one story I picked up.

I read somewhere that "Siem" in Khmer meant thief and that is where the word Siam is derived from. Anybody can verify??

Say what?!

It's not Khmer, as far as I know. It's from Sanskrit and while I can't remember what it means, it's not "thief".

Oh and Siam/Thailand has -- like most kingdoms, I suppose -- has invaded a few places.

That's the other option, that it comes from the Sanskrit for dark or brown.

[Misterwhisper]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

Thailand (Siam) Attacked Cambodia when the Thai king demanded they hand over their white elephant. Siem Reap means the 'Flat Defeat of Siam' or something like that. There was probably more to it, but that was one story I picked up.

In 1828 the Siamese invaded Laos and laid Vientiane in ash and ruins, because the Lao king refused to pay tribute to the Siamese king. The Siamese also pilfered the much-revered "Jade Buddha" from Vientiane's Wat Sisaket, which now is kept as a national symbol in Bangkok's Wat Phra Keo (adjacent to the Grand Palace).

[MaxYakov]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

Yes, you could be wrong: Wiki Axis Powers

On May 10, 1942, the Thai Phayap Army entered Burma's Shan State which, at one time in the past, had been part of the Ayutthaya Kingdom. The boundary between the Japanese and Thai operations was generally the Salween. However, the area south of the Shan States known as Karenni States, the homeland of the Karens, was specifically retained under Japanese control. Three Thai infantry and one cavalry division, spearheaded by armoured reconnaissance groups and supported by the air force, engaged the retreating Chinese 93rd Division. Kengtung, the main objective, was captured on May 27. Renewed offensives in June and November evicted the Chinese into Yunnan.^[17] The area containing the Shan States and Kengtung was annexed by Thailand in 1942. After the war, in 1946, the areas were ceded back to Burma.

What else in your post could you be wrong about, I wonder?

[folium]

Why does Hitler and the nazi party get all the blame for murdering millions? Stalin is hardly ever mentioned.

Nazi's get blamed for their deeds. Hitler and his crew get credit for their millions, not just in Germany, but spread over the whole of Europe and northern Africa and across the shipping lanes of most seas. Not even considering their ties with Japan and actions in tandem giving some dual culpability.

Stalin is an acknowledged psychopath, and gets full discredit for his own genocide, but that was mostly his own people, in their homeland in the most part. Stalin gets mentioned a lot, but is clearly more comparable to Cambodia and the KR in focus and targets, than to the Nazis.

But Stalin wasn't involved in this story, no hammer and sickle on display. No glorification of his communist legacy.

Not quite accurate.

while the Nazi regalia and paraphernalia got all the press, also appearing in this pathetic display were Chairman Mao, Osama Bin laden, Joseph Stalin and Mr Bean(!!!!)

And by the way, having spoken to a member of staff of this amazing "school", it appears that the social science (history in non-US speak) teacher was the driving force behind the displays and when a farang member of staff pointed out that Nazi rallies in central CM were probably not the finest advert for the school, he was told very firmly to mind his own business. So take protestations of "it was all the kids' idea" with the truckload of salt it deserves.

The saddest thing about the whole incident is that it puts Thailand in such a bad light and also the fact that the management of Sacred Heart get away with such an amazing error in judgement to put it mildly.

Teachers have a huge responsibility in shaping young minds. If they are capable of such ignorance and stupidity any decent Ministry of Education would demand their literal heads on a platter, but then again.....

[crazygreg44]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), the Thais have never invaded another country and/or committed genocide.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why they don't understand how horrifying it is to countries that have experienced it?

I don't think it makes much difference anyway.... Europe and America have learned little from the World Wars and still have a sizable minority (if not majority) that have a grudge against any minority in their country.

I must - sorry, disagree with your first sentence. You are in fact wrong. If you allow me to spell "genocide" what includes atrocities towards minorities or refugees of countries surrounding Thailand , then it has happened in the not so far past.

[happysanook]

Hard to believe the Nation could come out with such a insightful article.

I was amazed by the following item

quote

"Our education system has been accused by some of fostering ultra-nationalist sentiment suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others."

That has been a attitude I have seen over and over again. All to often I have heard Thai used as a excuse to justify some goofy thing.

The article shows how little Thai's know of the world in general. This is a situation that will continue as long as schools are not forced to maintain a standard of credibility.

This means teach students how to do do mathematics teach them of Thailand's place in the world.

i agree with almost everything you said here, but...teach them "mathematics"... ? surely you could suggest a different subject than this for Thais to learn about their place in the world.... geography...world history... cultures...?

[davejonesbkk]

Yeah great article blah blah, however the Nation is hardly the voice of the country, the vast majority including those that read English would not understand this article at all and even if they did they wouldnt care.

Gin cow liang?

[Time Traveller]

SO when a few children dress like Nazi's then everyone blames all of Thai society and it's people, yet when Prince Harry did it, did the world point the finger at the Britheads? Yes the biggest hypocrites are the ones who are the most critical. How about we start vilifying people dressed as Roman gladiators, they also committed barbaric torture to Jews and Egyptians.

[endure]

I think this is probably what's known as a Eurocentric thread. Most of the posts have nothing whatever to do with the original subject of the thread nor have they anything at all to do with Thailand. They demonstrate why Thaivisa is almost completely populated by non-Thais. If you are intent on re-fighting WWII can't you find a more suitable forum to do it in?

[metisdead]

Discussion of The dangers of cultural and historical ignorance along with how yet another asinine display of our lack of cultural awareness puts Thailand in an unwanted spotlight would be on topic to this thread. Discussion of the events that occurred in WWII in Europe would be another topic altogether. Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[MaxYakov]

I think this is probably what's known as a Eurocentric thread. Most of the posts have nothing whatever to do with the original subject of the thread nor have they anything at all to do with Thailand. They demonstrate why Thaivisa is almost completely populated by non-Thais. If you are intent on re-fighting WWII can't you find a more suitable forum to do it in?

Note: Underlined text indicates links to external references. Click on them to access.

A lot of the posts were 'Eurocentric' [sic], indeed. I'd say that demonstrate more that ThaiVisa is populated by non-Thais than why it is populated by non-Thais. Could this be because it is required that posts be entirely in English?

As to re-fighting WW II, this thread is about an article pertaining partially to Historical Ignorance and most of the posts had to do with just that subject, IMHO. In fact it might be enlightening for Thais to read these posts to learn something of the European aspects of WW II. It might also improve their English reading skills.

World War II was a global conflict and some may still be living, I believe, were involved in it. Thailand and the world were shaped by that conflict.

You might want to focus on the below, quoted part of the Nation's Article - Cultural and Historical Ignorance that this thread is about (emphasis within the quote is mine):

Also, is it right to pass the buck to the students? Perhaps it is our education system, our entire society, or just our complete ignorance and indifference to the pain and suffering in the history in the other parts of the world. That may best explain why some Thai people are indifferent to atrocities and the pains that are suffered elswhere.

Thanks for the Comment

[scotbeve]

Hard to believe the Nation could come out with such a insightful article.

I was amazed by the following item

quote

"Our education system has been accused by some of fostering ultra-nationalist sentiment suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others."

That has been a attitude I have seen over and over again. All to often I have heard Thai used as a excuse to justify some goofy thing.

The article shows how little Thai's know of the world in general. This is a situation that will continue as long as schools are not forced to maintain a standard of credibility.

This means teach students how to do do mathematics teach them of Thailand's place in the world.

i agree with almost everything you said here, but...teach them "mathematics"... ? surely you could suggest a different subject than this for Thais to learn about their place in the world.... geography...world history... cultures...?

And world history / Current events would do well considering the Nazi show at Sacred Heart Int. school in CM.....

[cloudhopper]

"Of course they knew who Hitler was and knew what his regime did to six million Jews and minority peoples just decades ago."

I doubt that very very much.