US Mum On Thai Lese Majeste Law At UN Rights Hearing

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US mum on lese majeste law at UN rights hearing

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

With the conspicuous absence of input from the US, representatives of a dozen countries including France, Germany, the UK and Australia have recommended that the Thai government amend the lese majeste law to bring the country's level of freedom of expression in line with international standards.

The recommendation was made during the three-hour-long Universal Periodic Review (UPR) session in Geneva on Thursday night (Bangkok time). The four-yearly process organised by the United Nations Human Rights Council requires each UN member state to present a report on various human rights conditions and to hear questions and recommendations by representatives of other members.

Representatives from the United Kingdom, France and Slovenia shared the view that the lese majeste law affected freedom of expression and urged Thailand to consider this aspect of liberty. Hungary and Finland urged Thailand to invite the UN special rapporteur on freedom of expression to visit Thailand.

The representative of Norway - also a kingdom - made the most concrete suggestion, pointing out that although Norway has a lese majeste law, a charge can only be brought with the personal approval of the king in order to "avoid abuses".

The United States joined China, Syria, Singapore and Burma in not expressing any concern about the lese majeste law, under which at least a dozen Thai citizens, including one Thai-US dual citizen, Joe Gordon, are currently incarcerated, books are banned, the mainstream media exercises self-censorship and tens of thousands of Internet pages are blocked.

One European diplomat who watched a live webcast of the event in Bangkok told The Nation that Washington's lack of comment on the issue put the US "in the same league" with dictatorial states.

Other states whose representatives urged Thailand to amend the law included Switzerland, Brazil, Spain, Sweden and New Zealand. Some of these, including the Canadian representative, also raised the issue of the Computer Crimes Act, which critics say is also being used by the Thai government to curb freedom of expression.

Defending the government's position, a male representative from the Justice Ministry told the council that the Thai government is "keen to prevent the misuse of the law" and that a police committee has been set up to ensure that all charges have legal merit.

"Many charges have been dropped for insubstantial evidence," said the official, adding that another committee is conducting a "comparative study of lese majeste law" with an aim to "improve" the law.

"There's an ongoing debate on lese majeste law" in Thailand, the official acknowledged, adding that this will provide useful information that can help improve the law.

Thai Ambassador to the UN Sihasak Phuangketkeow told the council that Thai media are "free" to report and comment on politics. "Those of you who have visited Thailand will know that media in Thailand are able to comment freely on politics."

Asked by The Nation in a phone call arranged by the Bangkok-based regional office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights after the session whether the Thai media is really free if it cannot critically discuss the role of the monarchy in the context of politics, Sihasak insisted the media are still free to discuss "politics".

On other issues, the United States urged the Thai government to provide "sufficient support" to the Truth for Reconciliation Commission and to guarantee the commission "full access" to officers involved in the crackdown in April-May 2010; New Zealand urged the government to investigate extra-judicial killings over the past 10 years; and Nicaragua recommended Thailand abolish the death penalty. Violence and impunity in the deep South; women rights; the rights of labourers and migrant labourers; child pornography; and prison conditions were also raised.

-- The Nation 2011-10-07

[TheWalkingMan]

Thai Ambassador to the UN Sihasak Phuangketkeow told the council that Thai media are "free" to report and comment on politics. "Those of you who have visited Thailand will know that media in Thailand are able to comment freely on politics."

[tominbkk]

......The representative of Norway - also a kingdom - made the most concrete suggestion, pointing out that although Norway has a lese majeste law, a charge can only be brought with the personal approval of the king in order to "avoid abuses"......

Perfect solution!

[mca]

The United States joined China, Syria, Singapore and Burma in not expressing any concern about the lese majeste law

The US representatives hanging out with some bastions of free speech there.

[whybother]

Thai Ambassador to the UN Sihasak Phuangketkeow told the council that Thai media are "free" to report and comment on politics. "Those of you who have visited Thailand will know that media in Thailand are able to comment freely on politics."

No they can't.

[Swiss1960]

Nicaragua recommended Thailand abolish the death penalty

But THIS is the country everybody should listen to

[whybother]

The problem with LM laws, and defamation laws in Thailand in general, is that you not only get in trouble for telling lies, but you get in trouble for telling the truth when it makes people look bad (ie. they lose face).

[geriatrickid]

......The representative of Norway - also a kingdom - made the most concrete suggestion, pointing out that although Norway has a lese majeste law, a charge can only be brought with the personal approval of the king in order to "avoid abuses"......

Perfect solution!

Agree.

[Oberkommando]

Thailand rightly admonished in the international arena for this law and its blatant misuse.

Thailand with a media free to report on politics? Don't make me laugh, we can't even have a proper discussion on here <deleted>.

[dominique355]

The problem with LM laws, and defamation laws in Thailand in general, is that you not only get in trouble for telling lies, but you get in trouble for telling the truth when it makes people look bad (ie. they lose face).

Exactly, and that is one of the main problems in fighting corruption. You cannot publicly ask how it is possible that a little police officers can own a 10 MB house and drive a Benz, because he will sue you for defamation, even if everything you say is true and can be proven.

Another problem not mentioned in this place is the arrogance of the Thai authorities to prosecute people for LM for things they have done outside Thailand and for people outside Thailand. Thailand kind of claims application of its laws throughout the world.

And further on, all LM cases are dealt with behind closed doors, sentences and facts are never published, making it impossible to really know what is considered as LM and what is not. And again, LM has nothing to do with the truth.

[DP25]

Westerners focus so much on LM which is a relatively minor restriction. They completely ignore the real, and much larger, threat to free speech in Thailand which is the extremely strong defamation laws that see people jailed or sued in to oblivion for challenging the rich and powerful. Not to mention an armed paramilitary group making threats against those that don't tow the line.

[timekeeper]

US mum on lese majeste law at UN rights hearing

who's Mum was it?

what did she say to the UN?

is her son on trial here?

we need more info about this 'mum'.....

Edited October 7, 2011 by metisdead
Font resized.

[bungalowbob]

<Snip>

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

Can you imagine the Thai's letting the kings car be attacked by rioting students as happened to the future king and his wife in London.

If there is no respect for the royal family you will end up with the way it is back in the UK.

Long may it last here in my opinion

Edited October 7, 2011 by metisdead
Off topic comments removed.

[Oberkommando]

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

The editor of Pratchathai was jailed for not removing posts on a web forum containing negative references to the Thai Royals quick enough.

The jailed American Joe Gordon was arrested in Thailand for translating a book on his internet blog in another country (he didn't even commit the 'crime' in Thailand).

So think again.

[OzMick]

US mum on lese majeste law at UN rights hearing

who's Mum was it?

what did she say to the UN?

is her son on trial here?

we need more info about this 'mum'.....

Thought the same at first, but...................

If it was a US mother it would be "US mom on lese majeste law at UN rights hearing"

[h90]

But it is off topic to discuss German restrictions of freedom here.

Edited October 7, 2011 by metisdead
Previously deleted quoted posts removed.

[Buchholz]

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

The editor of Pratchathai was jailed for not removing posts on a web forum containing negative references to the Thai Royals quick enough.

The jailed American Joe Gordon was arrested in Thailand for translating a book on his internet blog in another country (he didn't even commit the 'crime' in Thailand).

Both cases involve what bungalobob said not to do.

[whybother]

...

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

Can you imagine the Thai's letting the kings car be attacked by rioting students as happened to the future king and his wife in London.

If there is no respect for the royal family you will end up with the way it is back in the UK.

Long may it last here in my opinion

It's the definition of "slag off" that is the problem.

Rioting students attacking cars is completely different than someone writing something that someone thinks make the royals look bad.

Respect should be earned, not enforced.

The King has earned his respect. It shouldn't need to be enforced.

[Wallaby]

Is this really a major issue for expats? Are there expats that want to slag off the royals?

Or is it simply a case that you can't do it and if they are allowed, they still won't bother.

[metisdead]

Discussion of US Mum On Thai Lese Majeste Law At UN Rights Hearing would be on topic to this thread. Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[jayboy]

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

The editor of Pratchathai was jailed for not removing posts on a web forum containing negative references to the Thai Royals quick enough.

The jailed American Joe Gordon was arrested in Thailand for translating a book on his internet blog in another country (he didn't even commit the 'crime' in Thailand).

Both cases involve what bungalobob said not to do.

Actually they don't

[chaoyang]

"Mum" is slang for "no comment" -- but at first read the headline makes one think that it was indeed someone's mother.

Also, the entire issue is illustrated all too well by the fact we can't have a real discussion about it right here and now. Results could be: Deleted, banned, jailed, etc.

[swillowbee]

... I am an American ... and ... I am ashamed of the loss of voice my country has for a precious right that long ago uniquely separated my forbearers from the rest of the world ... the freedom of expression has since sustained us against many threats, internal and foreign ... and, it is apparently now traded away for whatever reasons.

... America is surely less of a country with the likes of our current political leadership and their failure to stand and be counted on this issue ... the beacon that is America's finest values is fading.

... shame ... shame on us.

Edited October 7, 2011 by swillowbee

[roamer]

The problem with LM laws, and defamation laws in Thailand in general, is that you not only get in trouble for telling lies, but you get in trouble for telling the truth when it makes people look bad (ie. they lose face).

So true as my wife found out when searching Google news yesterday for articles on the paris fashion show.

[cloudhopper]

This is merely quid pro quo for some other UN vote the US needed. Business as usual for the UN and this "hearing" will result in absolutely nothing.

[evanson]

Nicaragua recommended Thailand abolish the death penalty

But THIS is the country everybody should listen to

Why is it that South American countries have the best ideology (Morales, Chavez ...), even though closely linked, genetically, to the SE Asians?

If it were not for the fact they embraced (forcibly) Catholicism, I'd move there. Much better music and cheaper wine too.

And yes, Thailand same US SHOULD abolish the death penalty, barbaric and pointless.

[softgeorge]

<Snip>

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

Can you imagine the Thai's letting the kings car be attacked by rioting students as happened to the future king and his wife in London.

If there is no respect for the royal family you will end up with the way it is back in the UK.

Long may it last here in my opinion

And Australia, don't forget she is the Queen of Aussies also. If Australia said they wanted to to break ties with mother England and dump the royal family they could do so without fear of the law comming down on them.

[SICHONSTEVE]

"New Zealand urged the government to investigate extra-judicial killings over the past 10 years"

Quite right - lets see the extra-judicial killings of 2003 whereby 1,400 innocents lost their lives under Thaksin's tragic "drugs purge" investigated again (properly this time)and not simply brushed under the carpet as if they had never occurred, like it was before!!!!!!

Edited October 7, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[wintermute]

Every SE Asian country is one step away from being an oppressive dictatorship. Thailand is in the same boat. All the speech laws cater towards the wealthy and elite. They don't understand the first thing about the concept of social contract or philosophical application of the law. Thai society wasn't built on laws or philosophy that become popular during the European enlightenment and built the developed countries in the western world. Thailand is superficially modern but the thinking and social government is still very backwards.

As long as Thailand's particular brand of "morality" and "justice" doesn't spread towards the rest of the world then who cares what they do here? If they want to make things oppressive for their own people then that's their prerogative. This system is a big reason why Thailand has not progressed beyond "developing" despite having every advantage available that its neighbors didn't have.

Edited October 7, 2011 by wintermute

[ramrod711]

<Snip>

As for the LM laws here it is quite simple. Don't slag off the royal family and you have no worries.

Can you imagine the Thai's letting the kings car be attacked by rioting students as happened to the future king and his wife in London.

If there is no respect for the royal family you will end up with the way it is back in the UK.

Long may it last here in my opinion

they certainly allowed armed thugs to attack the prime ministers car, unless i missed something nobody was prosecuted for that.