PM Yingluck: Thailand's Flood Landscape Deemed 'Critical'

[webfact]

PM: Thailand's flood landscape deemed 'critical'

BANGKOK, Oct 8 - Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Saturday admitted flood situation in several provinces is critical, but she asserted that the government is doing its best to speed the draining of floodwaters into the sea to reduce the impact on the public.

The prime minister spoke to the nation in her weekly radio programme "The Yingluck Government Meets the People," saying that the flood situation remains critical, especially in Ayutthaya province, as well as on the Asian highway where flooding has blocked traffic in some locations.

Ms Yingluck said the government must build temporary dykes in the area to protect industrial zones and has set up an operations centre to help flood victims at Don Mueang Airport to resolve critical flooding as soon as possible and prepare for yet another incoming storm.

The operations centre is directed by Deputy Prime Minister/Justice Minister Pol Gen Pracha Promnok, the premier said.

"I reaffirmed that the government will speed up draining water at the earliest, as the ocean (high tide) retracts to ease the impact on the public, but the draining of water drainage cannot be completed (quickly) as the water volume is far more than last year," Ms Yingluck said.

The premier stressed that the government is seeking to release the floodwater into the sea via western Bangkok and urged all sectors to unite to solve the problem as a national agenda.

"I believe the strength of Thai people will make them get through this crisis together," the prime minister asserted.

Ms Yingluck added she has coordinated with the Royal Thai Navy and the Royal Thai Air Force to carry flood relief kits to flood victims in inaccessible areas and instructed local officials to alert residents for evacuation two hours in advance.

For measures after flood recedes, the premier said the government will survey the damages and restore infrastructure, and that additional financial aid will be provided to those whose homes were destroyed or which have casualties.

Prime Minister Yingluck on Friday night made a nationally televised address saying the flood situation across the country is critical and the most severe in decades.

Floods have hit 59 provinces across the country with 28 severely affected, 32 provinces being rehabilitated and the death toll has risen to 252 people, the prime minister reported.

The premier cautioned that every dam has reached capacity for holding water, and that government is not negligent but has applied all possible methods to handle the situation. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-10-08

[cup-O-coffee]

At least she has the candor to not point any fingers and focus on the natural threat element. She could just as easily behaved like a lot of whiners on this issue, and said the government is doing its best [given what it has as its resources] ...

Now would be a good time to pour dye in the waters and take area snapshots from a helicopter and see where the colored water flows in its drainage course. Yellow and blue would be good. And where it's green the twain meet. Target the largest known flow areas. This would certainly help in answering drainage route question for when the solution gets to the "plan of action" phase.

Another good plan of attack would be to form a research group on the term, "hydrostatic pressure" and the consequences that arise from ignoring it when dumping thousands of tonnes of dirt on top of water tables and swamps without creating a drainage outlet.

The reason one could give to anyone complaining about the cost of doing it right the first time, is that for 50 years the Thai powers have been spending over and over to do it again and again and again.

Perhaps they could then send the group out to where I live, and explain drainage to the jackass that built a large, two story building behind my house, and dumped thousands of tonnes of dirt into the swamp without installing drainage pipes. Now when it rains, water floods through the seams in our foundation and flows all over our floor tiles. Just one example of the uncontrolled stupidity and lack of conscientiousness of one's own actions and how those actions affect others, the future for others.

Hydrostatic pressure is a law, and the Thai people don't seem to respect that law. Now the law is having its indomitable say. It's got nothing to do with a human being (a PM in this case) being responsible.

Yet she is, in fact, acting the part, and doing what she can in the face of the mistakes others have made, and the physical laws that are exerting their indomitable influence upon the people for their ignorance and greed.

Edited October 8, 2011 by cup-O-coffee

[Chris Lawrence]

At least she has the candor to not point any fingers and focus on the natural threat element. She could just as easily behaved like a lot of whiners on this issue, and said the government is doing its best [given what it has as its resources] ...

Now would be a good time to pour dye in the waters and take area snapshots from a helicopter and see where the colored water flows in its drainage course. Yellow and blue would be good. And where it's green the twain meet. Target the largest known flow areas. This would certainly help in answering drainage route question for when the solution gets to the "plan of action" phase.

Another good plan of attack would be to form a research group on the term, "hydrostatic pressure" and the consequences that arise from ignoring it when dumping thousands of tonnes of dirt on top of water tables and swamps without creating a drainage outlet.

The reason one could give to anyone complaining about the cost of doing it right the first time, is that for 50 years the Thai powers have been spending over and over to do it again and again and again.

Perhaps they could then send the group out to where I live, and explain drainage to the jackass that built a large, two story building behind my house, and dumped thousands of tonnes of dirt into the swamp without installing drainage pipes. Now when it rains, water floods through the seams in our foundation and flows all over our floor tiles. Just one example of the uncontrolled stupidity and lack of conscientiousness of one's own actions and how those actions affect others, the future for others.

Hydrostatic pressure is a law, and the Thai people don't seem to respect that law. Now the law is having its indomitable say. It's got nothing to do with a human being (a PM in this case) being responsible.

Yet she is, in fact, acting the part, and doing what she can in the face of the mistakes others have made, and the physical laws that are exerting their indomitable influence upon the people for their ignorance and greed.

A thoughtful post C-O-C. Agree, that I haven't heard this type of comment from previous PM's. The floods are seen every year; I would think that there would be a solution to lessening the high waters on homes and people's lives.

[ThaiKiwi]

At least she has the candor to not point any fingers and focus on the natural threat element. She could just as easily behaved like a lot of whiners on this issue, and said the government is doing its best [given what it has as its resources] ...

Now would be a good time to pour dye in the waters and take area snapshots from a helicopter and see where the colored water flows in its drainage course. Yellow and blue would be good. And where it's green the twain meet. Target the largest known flow areas. This would certainly help in answering drainage route question for when the solution gets to the "plan of action" phase.

Another good plan of attack would be to form a research group on the term, "hydrostatic pressure" and the consequences that arise from ignoring it when dumping thousands of tonnes of dirt on top of water tables and swamps without creating a drainage outlet.

The reason one could give to anyone complaining about the cost of doing it right the first time, is that for 50 years the Thai powers have been spending over and over to do it again and again and again.

Perhaps they could then send the group out to where I live, and explain drainage to the jackass that built a large, two story building behind my house, and dumped thousands of tonnes of dirt into the swamp without installing drainage pipes. Now when it rains, water floods through the seams in our foundation and flows all over our floor tiles. Just one example of the uncontrolled stupidity and lack of conscientiousness of one's own actions and how those actions affect others, the future for others.

Hydrostatic pressure is a law, and the Thai people don't seem to respect that law. Now the law is having its indomitable say. It's got nothing to do with a human being (a PM in this case) being responsible.

Yet she is, in fact, acting the part, and doing what she can in the face of the mistakes others have made, and the physical laws that are exerting their indomitable influence upon the people for their ignorance and greed.

Isn't it funny how some people can always find fault in others when they don't think too much about reality.

Dyeing rivers: I don't think there is much misunderstanding as to where the main flows of water are flowing. Even the Thai reporters are pretty good at letting everyone know which rivers are overflowing which banks. Of course, chaos comes when two rivers running south and less than 100 kilometers apart both over flow their banks and the water races in from all directions to swamp the Asia Highway at Bangpahun but detailed knowledge of river flows still isn't going to help that one. Ayutthaya is a town half encircled by the biggest river in the country so it isn't surprising that when it floods that this area is going to flood too. No amount of dye is going to solve that problem. The roads are probably their best bet as barriers to flooding but when they are up to a meter underwater then there is not much they can do except wait until the rains stop and the water goes and then build the roads another couple meters higher.

You know, the rice farmers in this area are wonderfully served by the irrigation dykes and canals so they can farm rice virtually all year round. The only way that could happen is if they have good knowledge of the water flows. Not an issue really.

Water tables: With regards to putting dirt on water tables. I doubt that that will change much. Water tables are usually under ground any way and so dumping a teaspoon of dirt of a billion tonnes of dirt isn't going to change the water table much. Drainage pipes might be a different story but when the water table is higher than the drainage pipes then you have other more serious issues to deal with. I am sure the Thai urban development guys could help you out on that with the detailed knowledge they already have so they probably don't need to do much "additional research" as you suggest.

Laws and Science:

Hydrostatic pressure is a measurement rather than a "law". I think it is measured in Pascals after that guy Pascal.

Hydrostatics is more of a science of fluids which are say "static" or not dynamic.

Maybe you were thinking of the science of fluid dynamics rather than fluid statics.

Anyway, I don't think it would relate too much to the poor guy that went and built his dream house. They are not usually the people that plan urban development and drainage systems. I am sure the people who issued the building permits would be more up to date on those sorts of things. Now if there was no building permit then it is a simple task for you to go down to the local authorities and put in a complaint. Some authorities are very helpful in this regard if you go about it the right way. I notice the appropriate authorities are also advertising on TV these days that the process of requesting such building permits and property surveys have been simplified and that service around the whole country is state of the art.

PM:

I am just wondering if the government could not be doing more for all those people in areas that they have known were going to flood for a week in advance but they cannot even get handouts of drinking water. It seems from the news reports and a recent visit to central Thailand that all the hand outs that they are getting are coming from caravans of cars and pickups from television stations and private companies in Bangkok. Surely they could get the army out of Bangkok and up country with vehicles that can negotiate the flooded roads to distribute supplies to those thousands waiting for help.

Okay, that is my bit for the day.

[Captain Haddock]

Let's dig more canals like the Sang Saeb and link 'em all up to the Mekong. That way it won't matter how many dams the Chinese build upriver...

[MAJIC]

Ms Yingluck said the government must build temporary dykes in the area to protect industrial zones and has set up an operations centre to help flood victims at Don Mueang Airport to resolve critical flooding as soon as possible and prepare for yet another incoming storm.

Can dykes (canals) be built in already flooded areas of land,seems like a long job to me which will take longer than, for the water to subside,and take us into the hot months?

[finnomick1]

One thousand boats anchored with propellers going full blast will do absolutely NOTHING. You cannot force water into the sea, it will just flow back. You cannot artificially raise a sea level. Water will always find it's own level. And what about the displacement one thousand boats will cause ? The only answer is to wait until the flood waters recede, THEN put in measures to route water away from low areas as in storm drains. Create more reservoirs so when the dry season arrives, there will actually be spare water available. Don't bury your heads in the sand(bags), do something positive when the time is right to prevent this happening again next year.

[rubl]

Ms Yingluck said the government must build temporary dykes in the area to protect industrial zones and has set up an operations centre to help flood victims at Don Mueang Airport to resolve critical flooding as soon as possible and prepare for yet another incoming storm.

Can dykes (canals) be built in already flooded areas of land,seems like a long job to me which will take longer than, for the water to subside,and take us into the hot months?

If you position containers and fill them with the available water, you could quickly build a reasonable dyke with many holes. You need lots of sandbags or (better) boulder clay to fill the gaps, some rough gravel or stones to keep things in place. Not long lasting, but may help for a short while. Problem is the materiel to move and place the containers and keep them in place till the 'water filling' sinks them.

Of course this works better as preventive measure BEFORE actual flooding, easier to build as well

Edited October 8, 2011 by rubl

[bigbamboo]

We need someone to invent a rainstopping machine.

[rakman]

Let's dig more canals like the Sang Saeb and link 'em all up to the Mekong. That way it won't matter how many dams the Chinese build upriver...

The Mekong drains the east, the Chao Phraya drains the north and west. You'd have to pump the water up hill, or bore a tunnel to the river, assuming the Mekong is lower, which it probably isn't since it drains all the way to the south of Vietnam. Not a cheap solution.

What's bad is this is a "30 to 60" year flood. What happens if the 100 to 300 year flood occurs? The whole drainage basin and delta will look like Bangladesh.

[Captain Haddock]

The Khmer civilisation used to dig reservoirs all over the place, to aid with irrigation and for religious rites. Their temples are still standing. If they could cope with a similar climate a millenium ago, why can't their descendants do the same!

[Soutpeel]

We need someone to invent a rainstopping machine.

Already being organised......the esteemed Science minister Khun Plopadop is arranging for all the air planes(both prop and jet) in Thailand to fly in formation over the country and blow away the clouds...

[OzMick]

At least she has the candor to not point any fingers and focus on the natural threat element. She could just as easily behaved like a lot of whiners on this issue, and said the government is doing its best [given what it has as its resources] ...

Now would be a good time to pour dye in the waters and take area snapshots from a helicopter and see where the colored water flows in its drainage course. Yellow and blue would be good. And where it's green the twain meet. Target the largest known flow areas. This would certainly help in answering drainage route question for when the solution gets to the "plan of action" phase.

Another good plan of attack would be to form a research group on the term, "hydrostatic pressure" and the consequences that arise from ignoring it when dumping thousands of tonnes of dirt on top of water tables and swamps without creating a drainage outlet.

The reason one could give to anyone complaining about the cost of doing it right the first time, is that for 50 years the Thai powers have been spending over and over to do it again and again and again.

Perhaps they could then send the group out to where I live, and explain drainage to the jackass that built a large, two story building behind my house, and dumped thousands of tonnes of dirt into the swamp without installing drainage pipes. Now when it rains, water floods through the seams in our foundation and flows all over our floor tiles. Just one example of the uncontrolled stupidity and lack of conscientiousness of one's own actions and how those actions affect others, the future for others.

Hydrostatic pressure is a law, and the Thai people don't seem to respect that law. Now the law is having its indomitable say. It's got nothing to do with a human being (a PM in this case) being responsible.

Yet she is, in fact, acting the part, and doing what she can in the face of the mistakes others have made, and the physical laws that are exerting their indomitable influence upon the people for their ignorance and greed.

"The Flood-Relief Operations Command (FROC) yesterday issued its first order to the military and police commanders in flood-ravaged provinces to urgently mobilise personnel and resources and evacuate people, protect their belongings and provide medical treatment until the floods subside." Oh look, something extra she could have done earlier!

With all your expertise on fluid dynamics and hydrostatic pressure, you bought/built a house next to a swamp that is below ground level? And your problems are your neighbours fault?

[h90]

We need someone to invent a rainstopping machine.

Already being organised......the esteemed Science minister Khun Plopadop is arranging for all the air planes(both prop and jet) in Thailand to fly in formation over the country and blow away the clouds...

Best would be if we could mount helicopters vertical so their big fan blows away the clouds. If we mount thousands of helicopters we could blow the clouds to Myanmar.

We could also fill the water in container and export them, maybe to Laos. Or to Tibet as it flow down mountains pretty fast.

(Do I qualify as Science Minister?)

[wintermute]

We need someone to invent a rainstopping machine.

Already being organised......the esteemed Science minister Khun Plopadop is arranging for all the air planes(both prop and jet) in Thailand to fly in formation over the country and blow away the clouds...

I believe all problems in Thailand can be solved with the proper application of monks. You just need to get all the monks to stand out in a grass field and blow in the air simultaneously to get the rain clouds to move away to Cambodia.

[siampolee]

I have heard on the grapevine that Thaksin along with Jutuporn and the rest of the Red Shirt brigade, Chalerm and of course his son who is flushed with success along with Plopadop and R.A. are going to assemble at Don Muang and point their respective mouths collectively towards the sky.

A.:

Once in position they all going to exhale heartily thus dispersing the rain clouds due to the large amount of hot air emitted.

B:

After that they are to be transported to the banks of the Chao Phraya river where they will point their collective mouths at the water, again exhale mightily, thus of course speeding the floodwater outflow at a speed beyond belief and relieving Bangkok and its people of any risk from flood damage.

Thus the Thai people are saved and the assembled hot air experts will indeed be lauded and of course suitably rewarded for their gallant efforts

Indeed as the saying goes.

"Some have greatness thrust upon them , others have it thrust up them,"

But who gets what honour is debatable.

Edited October 9, 2011 by siampolee

[finnomick1]

Here's another alternative which would be a lot more useful -- how about dredging the rivers and canals thus enabling them to move more water ? And, stop people from dumping just about anything into the sewers thereby clogging them up too. Make it a criminal offence, but who'd enforce it ? You'd be surprised how easy it is to clog up a drain or sewer just by throwing fat and cooking oil into it. How often have you seen food stalls etc doing just that ? Everywhere ! I was having a machine repaired in our local town. The gadger drained the old engine oil into a tray -- then tipped it straight into the sewer !!! I couldn't believe it !!! Talk about nil respect or knowledge about the environment, but then his reasoning would be, " the guy across the street does it so it MUST be OK ". As they say in Yorkshire -- you can't educate pork.PS. If there are no dredgers available, there's a foreign guy got one down near Ban Saray

[finnomick1]

.......and bring in those submarines -- 1000+propellers up top, and 14 down below.....

[cup-O-coffee]

At least she has the candor to not point any fingers and focus on the natural threat element. She could just as easily behaved like a lot of whiners on this issue, and said the government is doing its best [given what it has as its resources] ...

Now would be a good time to pour dye in the waters and take area snapshots from a helicopter and see where the colored water flows in its drainage course. Yellow and blue would be good. And where it's green the twain meet. Target the largest known flow areas. This would certainly help in answering drainage route question for when the solution gets to the "plan of action" phase.

Another good plan of attack would be to form a research group on the term, "hydrostatic pressure" and the consequences that arise from ignoring it when dumping thousands of tonnes of dirt on top of water tables and swamps without creating a drainage outlet.

The reason one could give to anyone complaining about the cost of doing it right the first time, is that for 50 years the Thai powers have been spending over and over to do it again and again and again.

Perhaps they could then send the group out to where I live, and explain drainage to the jackass that built a large, two story building behind my house, and dumped thousands of tonnes of dirt into the swamp without installing drainage pipes. Now when it rains, water floods through the seams in our foundation and flows all over our floor tiles. Just one example of the uncontrolled stupidity and lack of conscientiousness of one's own actions and how those actions affect others, the future for others.

Hydrostatic pressure is a law, and the Thai people don't seem to respect that law. Now the law is having its indomitable say. It's got nothing to do with a human being (a PM in this case) being responsible.

Yet she is, in fact, acting the part, and doing what she can in the face of the mistakes others have made, and the physical laws that are exerting their indomitable influence upon the people for their ignorance and greed.

"The Flood-Relief Operations Command (FROC) yesterday issued its first order to the military and police commanders in flood-ravaged provinces to urgently mobilise personnel and resources and evacuate people, protect their belongings and provide medical treatment until the floods subside." Oh look, something extra she could have done earlier!

With all your expertise on fluid dynamics and hydrostatic pressure, you bought/built a house next to a swamp that is below ground level? And your problems are your neighbours fault?

Right you are. However, The house and land was purchased before I came into the picture. Now that I am a part of it, I am making a point that the existing condition (which I would never have purchased in this area) was adequate and not a flooding factor until the jackass next door compounded the problem. We are considering the pros and cons of remaining in the area, or moving. At least I am pro-active, and next year's flood will fond new owners living there; but I had to chuckle that you caught that angle.

[plumeria]

At least she has the candor to not point any fingers and focus on the natural threat element. She could just as easily behaved like a lot of whiners on this issue, and said the government is doing its best [given what it has as its resources] ...

Now would be a good time to pour dye in the waters and take area snapshots from a helicopter and see where the colored water flows in its drainage course. Yellow and blue would be good. And where it's green the twain meet. Target the largest known flow areas. This would certainly help in answering drainage route question for when the solution gets to the "plan of action" phase.

Another good plan of attack would be to form a research group on the term, "hydrostatic pressure" and the consequences that arise from ignoring it when dumping thousands of tonnes of dirt on top of water tables and swamps without creating a drainage outlet.

The reason one could give to anyone complaining about the cost of doing it right the first time, is that for 50 years the Thai powers have been spending over and over to do it again and again and again.

Perhaps they could then send the group out to where I live, and explain drainage to the jackass that built a large, two story building behind my house, and dumped thousands of tonnes of dirt into the swamp without installing drainage pipes. Now when it rains, water floods through the seams in our foundation and flows all over our floor tiles. Just one example of the uncontrolled stupidity and lack of conscientiousness of one's own actions and how those actions affect others, the future for others.

Hydrostatic pressure is a law, and the Thai people don't seem to respect that law. Now the law is having its indomitable say. It's got nothing to do with a human being (a PM in this case) being responsible.

Yet she is, in fact, acting the part, and doing what she can in the face of the mistakes others have made, and the physical laws that are exerting their indomitable influence upon the people for their ignorance and greed.

Good suggestions and pretty much sums up the situation.

[ratcatcher]

Today, I read in the unmentionable paper that ex P.M.Thaksin has a B400bn " solution".

There he sits in his luxurious surroundings in Dubai, while back here the poor denizens of the Central Plains cities from Sukothai on down who have been flooded out of their homes are suffering tremendous losses.

These are the people he purportedly "loves".

IF he had an class or character at all, he would come back here and offer financial and moral support to these poor people.

Does he reach into his own funds and offer assistance ? No chance of that happening.

His younger sister, although criticized widely, is seen by many to be trying to sincerely help people in this disaster.

It would be far more helpful if Mr.Know It All " in Dubai was to <deleted> for a while.

The B400bn was a very sweet sounding round figure IMHO. I imagine he's allowed lots of skim room.

I believe there are many knowledgeable and capable people in this country quite capable of offering solutions to this annual problem of water management.

I wish the papers would keep this constant publicity seeker off the front pages.

.

[rubl]

Today, I read in the unmentionable paper that ex P.M.Thaksin has a B400bn " solution".

There he sits in his luxurious surroundings in Dubai, while back here the poor denizens of the Central Plains cities from Sukothai on down who have been flooded out of their homes are suffering tremendous losses.

These are the people he purportedly "loves".

IF he had an class or character at all, he would come back here and offer financial and moral support to these poor people.

Does he reach into his own funds and offer assistance ? No chance of that happening.

His younger sister, although criticized widely, is seen by many to be trying to sincerely help people in this disaster.

It would be far more helpful if Mr.Know It All " in Dubai was to <deleted> for a while.

The B400bn was a very sweet sounding round figure IMHO. I imagine he's allowed lots of skim room.

I believe there are many knowledgeable and capable people in this country quite capable of offering solutions to this annual problem of water management.

I wish the papers would keep this constant publicity seeker off the front pages.

.

Cancel the 'rice price pledging scheme' for which THB 410 billion is reserved between now and end of February 2012 and financing is no problem. Mind you a decent plan to come to a study for a mid-to-long term solution is being discussed at this moment. I can only assume the Science Minister is not involved