Rain-Check/Refund Or What....?

[Forethat]

Last night me and a friend went to a Bangkok golf course and played night golf. We had managed to play the first 9 in 1.20 when it started to rain. We had a good match going and we don't mind playing in the rain. After 4 holes the rain turned to a slight drizzle, but since most players gave up and went home the course was now more or less empty. With 4 holes to play the lights were shut down. We couldn't finish.

Obviously, the manager decided to shut down to save electricity and go home early. We couldn't get a rain-check or a refund.

Am i wrong when I feel this is equivalent to the Pattaya Jetski scam...?

[kenny999]

A very strange thread from some one that seems to know every thing about golf and is now comparing Jet Ski scams to lights going off at a golf course!! the lights went off simply because they forgot you was still on the golf course it's that simple!!!

[Forethat]

A very strange thread from some one that seems to know every thing about golf and is now comparing Jet Ski scams to lights going off at a golf course!! the lights went off simply because they forgot you was still on the golf course it's that simple!!!

If you read the initial post I have already mentioned that they closed the light in order to save electricity and go home early. I actually dont have a problem with that as long as they would accept that they sold a product and that the buyers expected them to deliver. The alternative would have been a refund or a rain-check.

[Payboy]

If you played at Windmill - its quite possible.

[soundman]

Please try to discuss without goading others into useless argument.

[Forethat]

If you played at Windmill - its quite possible.

So this is a common behavior? I was hoping that this was an honest mistake, but considering this happens in more than one place it appears that my comparison with the Jetski scammers was spot on..? Amazing Thailand.

[LarryBird]

This is one of the reasons why thailand is behind the times.

[kenny999]

This is one of the reasons why thailand is behind the times.

Why is Thailand behind the times, give us a clue?

[Forethat]

For those who are interested in discussing this from a serious point of view:

Is this something that is going on everywhere? Is this an "implied" standard that I haven't known about (golf courses reserves the right to stop play for seemingly arbitrary reasons)?

[chuckd]

Since you have claimed you receive Titleist Pro Vi golf balls free, why didn't you simply slip the club manager a 3 ball sleeve and ask him to leave the lights on so you could finish your round in the rain?

You mean; why didn't I pay him to allow me to do something I had already paid an agreed amount for...?

it cost you nothing but some free balls from your alleged unlimited supply.

Not that it has anything to do with the topic, but please feel free to share with the rest of us why you think I have an unlimited supply of PRO V1s...?

Perhaps he might have been more inclined to leave the lights on while you and one other continued playing golf in the rain if you had offered him some incentive. I would think anybody as knowledgeable as yourself would understand how the system works from time to time.

As far as the unlimited supply of Pro V1's is concerned, this is what you said in a thread titled, surprisingly, "Pro V1 Golf Balls"...

"Here's what I suggest:

Since I get these balls for free I'd be happy to send you a sleeve. PM me your address and I'll send you tomorrow."

Link here, post #23:

Your words were, "Since I get these balls for free...".

You did not place a restriction on the number you receive nor did you explain exactly how you receive them. One is therefore left to their imagination that the number is unlimited.

If not, please provide an explanation simply to clear the air.

As far as trying to get a serious discussion on this topic is concerned, I am afraid you will have trouble convincing anybody you have been harmed in any manner simply because the lights were turned out on you in a rainstorm so the Course management and his assistants could go home for the evening.

In an effort to help you, following is the rain check policy picked at random from Google. It is from the Blue Ridge Shadows Golf Club in Front Royal, VA.

Please note this policy states if 14 or more holes are played, there is no eligibility for a rain check. This would seem to apply in your case.

_______________________________________________________

Rain Check Policy

If you start your round in the rain, there will be no rain check issued. A rain check may be issued only if the golf course superintendent or golf course management deems the course unplayable. Players are expected to continue play during rain and/or drizzle. When the unplayable decision has been made, players are required to report to the golf shop ASAP so their return time can be registered. All players requesting a rain check may be required to wait up to an hour after initial check-in or return time check-in to determine if course conditions will improve. Rain checks are issued depending on the number of holes played. An 18 hole rain check will be issued for 1-3 holes; 4-13 holes the customer receives a 9 hole rain check; 14 or more holes do not qualify for a rain check. Eighteen (18) hole rain checks are valued at the rate that you were charged prior to teeing off. Nine (9) hole rain checks are valued at the 9 hole rate initially paid or 50% of the18 hole rate that you were initially charged. Any rain check can be applied towards golf fees that are more expensive. There will be no cash refunds or credits if rain check is used for lesser value. Rain checks are non-transferable and non-replaceable. Rain checks are only redeemable for golf course fees and hold no cash value. Rain checks expire 90 days after date issued. Rain checks may only be redeemed one at a time towards a single golf fee; no multiple redemptions against a single fee.

Link here: http://www.blueridgeshadows.com/course-info.shtml

Edit in: Here are a two more rain check policies:

__________________________________________

Rain Check Policy

Rain checks are issued for extreme inclement weather that includes but is not limited to storms and lightning.

Rain checks are issued based on your position of play at the point of interruption. Prior to receiving a rain check, our guests must present their starter’s receipt to the Pro Shop.

If 4 or less holes are completed An 18-hole rain check will be issued

If 5 – 12 holes are completed A 9-hole rain check will be issued.

If 13+ holes are completed No rain check will be issued

Rain checks issued prior to September 1st must be used within the calendar year. Rain checks issued after September 1st must be used before June 30th of the following year.

Link here: http://greatrivergolfclub.com/weather-policy.asp

__________________________________________

Rain Check Policy: Rain checks are issued as a courtesy to our customers for inclement weather, family emergencies or being called away to work (If you don’t play on call, you might not play at all. We think.). We reserve the right not to issue a rain check if inclement weather is present when you start playing, so please keep this in mind before paying your fee. Rain checks are good for thirty days only. The computer keeps track of rain checks and will not allow any to be redeemed after thirty days, so please do not ask the pro or clerk behind the counter. Rain checks are redeemable for golf and cart fees only. Rain checks are good only for a dollar value that is calculated based on the fee paid and the number of holes remaining on your round. For example, if you paid $31.50 to play 18 holes and had to quit after nine, the amount of the rain check will be $15.75, or half of what you paid. Present the rain check (within thirty days of the issue date) the next time you play and that amount will be deducted from your total. Please note that a rain check is a dollar amount – not a number of holes (A rain check = dollars paid / the number of holes paid x the number of holes not played). Depending upon the day of the week and the time of play, you may be paying for golf at a more expensive rate than when the rain check was issued, and a balance may be owed. If the new fee is less than the rain check amount, a new rain check will be issued for that balance remaining.

Link here: http://www.nuevavistagolf.com/course/policies

___________________________________________

To summarize, one golf course says no rain check after 13 holes, one golf course says no rain check after 14 holes and one course would give you a rain check equal to 4/18ths of the total green fee cost. If your green fee was 1,000 baht you would receive a rain check from the third course in the amount of 222 Baht to apply to your next green fee.

Your problem hardly ranks up there with the jet ski scams in LOS.

[Forethat]

You seem to have an incorrect definition (or understanding) of the term "rain check". A rain check is (as far as I understand), the term used when a player has the right to stop playing his round according to terms agreed. I don't actually know, I don't mind playing when it rains so I have never had a rain check.

With the risk of being overclear (with regards to the obvious fact that you haven't read the initial post), this was not a case where we wanted to stop playing due to rain. If I am not incorrect the rain check policy applies at most courses in reverse when the course is closed due to unplayable conditions, but that wasn't the case, the course was fine and one of the staff told us that they wanted to close because there weren't that many players. If you read the text you've pasted they even support my case.

Players are expected to continue play during rain and/or drizzle.

To answer your question regarding "incentive" to play, you have pretty much addressed my initial question by suggesting that there WAS an intent not only to intentionally deceive customers by making them pay an agreed rate with the knowledge that the terms ans conditions would be omitted in case there was rain. Maybe they even WANT rain since that would most definitely render in a better margin. So thanks for supporting my idea that this was a scam.

<snip!>

[Forethat]

I dont know, but I think it'd be pretty much the end of a golf course if they openly advertised the following policy:

"If there is rain, the course will be closed and no refunds or rain checks will be issued."

The only thing more surprising than if that would happen is that there are posters on here who tends to support the idea of such policy.

[chuckd]

I have answered your questions. You have made yet another post dripping with sarcasm while trolling for an argument and that is something I no longer wish to get involved in with you.

I strongly suggest you take the matter up with the golf course that has so offended you. I hardly understand how you think any member of TV can help you unless you try and help yourself by going back to the source of your problem.

Now would be a good time to close this thread.

[Forethat]

I have answered your questions.

Once again it is obvious that you haven't read the initial post. If you had, you would have realised that I am not interested in some sort of mitigation or suggestions on how to approach the golf club in order to come to some sort of agreement - that I already have.

What I DID ask (something you apparently missed), was whether my perception of the entire approach as being fraudulent was correct or not, something you clearly dont think - and I will not comment on whether you are the only person this side of the equator who is of the opinion that the golf course should be allowed to close for arbitrary reasons without reimbursing players who paid green fee in full - I'll simply accept that you think they didn't do anything wrong.

Finally, isn't it better if you simply refrain from posting incorrect information in threads you don't like, rather than arguing that they be closed...?

[richard_smith237]

chuckd - If you don't like the thread don't post in it. It's you who is clearly trolling for an arguement.

Forethat is rightly annoyed. Anyone who has ever played golf would be annoyed at such treatment.

Forethat has also asked whether any other golfers have experienced such treatment, and if any other courses have such a policy.

Why do you think that being an argumentative soul gives you the right to take over someone else's thread ?

Ok, you disagree and believe the this golf course is well within its rights to treat a paid golfer in a subhuman manner... many others will disagree...

OP: Terrible treatment by the golf course. If you can, write a letter to the committee. It will probably fall on blind eyes... you never know... If you have one, chose an alternative course where hopefully the treatment is better.

I personally have received terrible treatment at Pheonix course in Pattaya, I don't need to play there as I don't live in Pattaya - But when I do visit - I know I'll never play that course again.

[Forethat]

OP: Terrible treatment by the golf course. If you can, write a letter to the committee. It will probably fall on blind eyes... you never know... If you have one, chose an alternative course where hopefully the treatment is better.

I personally have received terrible treatment at Pheonix course in Pattaya, I don't need to play there as I don't live in Pattaya - But when I do visit - I know I'll never play that course again.

I have experienced weird things on golf courses in Thailand, but most of them are somehow related to slow play or starter issues (or both) due to over bookings. I remember one course where an entire buss load of Koreans were allowed to tee off in front of me and a friend despite we had an earlier tee time. But this was something new. Very bizarre.

As you can imagine this became an abrupt ending to an otherwise cracking evening. What made things worse was that we probably would have finished our round in 2,5 hours, which in Bangkok is more or less unheard of (or at least I haven't played a round of golf in less than 3 hours since I moved from London 2006).

Good thing the rainy season is over soon, but that will probably bring more golfers to the scene, so I can kiss the >3 hour rounds good bye...

[kenny999]

chuckd - If you don't like the thread don't post in it. It's you who is clearly trolling for an arguement.

Forethat is rightly annoyed. Anyone who has ever played golf would be annoyed at such treatment.

Forethat has also asked whether any other golfers have experienced such treatment, and if any other courses have such a policy.

Why do you think that being an argumentative soul gives you the right to take over someone else's thread ?

Ok, you disagree and believe the this golf course is well within its rights to treat a paid golfer in a subhuman manner... many others will disagree...

OP: Terrible treatment by the golf course. If you can, write a letter to the committee. It will probably fall on blind eyes... you never know... If you have one, chose an alternative course where hopefully the treatment is better.

I personally have received terrible treatment at Pheonix course in Pattaya, I don't need to play there as I don't live in Pattaya - But when I do visit - I know I'll never play that course again.

Vote with your feet, unfortunately these clubs do not give a flying toss if you never go back, the Koreans/Japanese/Russians and Thia's will play their because they are a completely different animal to us, we will not stand for rudeness or being treated differently where as the Japs,Koreans,Russians and Thia's do not care glad I am English!!!

[chuckd]

chuckd - If you don't like the thread don't post in it. It's you who is clearly trolling for an arguement.

Forethat is rightly annoyed. Anyone who has ever played golf would be annoyed at such treatment.

Forethat has also asked whether any other golfers have experienced such treatment, and if any other courses have such a policy.

Why do you think that being an argumentative soul gives you the right to take over someone else's thread ?

Ok, you disagree and believe the this golf course is well within its rights to treat a paid golfer in a subhuman manner... many others will disagree...

OP: Terrible treatment by the golf course. If you can, write a letter to the committee. It will probably fall on blind eyes... you never know... If you have one, chose an alternative course where hopefully the treatment is better.

I personally have received terrible treatment at Pheonix course in Pattaya, I don't need to play there as I don't live in Pattaya - But when I do visit - I know I'll never play that course again.

Thank you for your comments. I will take your suggestions under consideration.

Let me ask what Mr. Forethat has done to recoup his lost four holes.

Has he been back to the golf course to find out why the lights were turned out?

Has he been back to the golf course to find out what their policies are concerning rain checks?

Has he talked to anybody in a position of authority at the golf course to determine if the course had been declared unplayable at any time during his outing day?

What are the posted hours of the golf course? What course was it and what time were the lights turned out?

Were Mr. Forethat and his playing partner using a golf cart? If not, the course management might not have even known there were any golfers remaining on the course. It was, after all, nighttime and raining. Perhaps they thought a sensible person might have already retired from the course under the circumstances, not realizing of course that most golfers are not sensible.

Mr. Forethat claims that some member of the course staff told him they wanted to close because there weren't that many players. Who was this staff person and what management position did he hold?

I provided Mr. Forethat three rain check policies picked at random from the internet. Two of the three would not have given him a rain check at all and the third would have given him a voucher equal to 4/18th of a future round. He thought none of them applicable.

What has Mr. Forethat done to solve the problem, other than to open a thread on this forum and solicit help. There are entirely too many unanswered questions for anybody to provide Mr. Forethat with the answers he seems to be seeking.

I have previously stated the question he posed was somewhat silly considering he had already played 14 of the 18 holes. The post I made was deleted as part of it may have been off-topic, however, I had already responded to his question prior to your arrival on board.

I am certain my words will be parsed by either you or Mr. Forethat but, until some answers are provided and a little more detail is known, I cannot see that anybody can assist sorting out Mr. Forethat's dilemma.

In conclusion, I have considered your suggestion very thoroughly and have decided to ignore it. Thank you for providing it, though.

[kenny999]

chuckd - If you don't like the thread don't post in it. It's you who is clearly trolling for an arguement.

Forethat is rightly annoyed. Anyone who has ever played golf would be annoyed at such treatment.

Forethat has also asked whether any other golfers have experienced such treatment, and if any other courses have such a policy.

Why do you think that being an argumentative soul gives you the right to take over someone else's thread ?

Ok, you disagree and believe the this golf course is well within its rights to treat a paid golfer in a subhuman manner... many others will disagree...

OP: Terrible treatment by the golf course. If you can, write a letter to the committee. It will probably fall on blind eyes... you never know... If you have one, chose an alternative course where hopefully the treatment is better.

I personally have received terrible treatment at Pheonix course in Pattaya, I don't need to play there as I don't live in Pattaya - But when I do visit - I know I'll never play that course again.

Thank you for your comments. I will take your suggestions under consideration.

Let me ask what Mr. Forethat has done to recoup his lost four holes.

Has he been back to the golf course to find out why the lights were turned out?

Has he been back to the golf course to find out what their policies are concerning rain checks?

Has he talked to anybody in a position of authority at the golf course to determine if the course had been declared unplayable at any time during his outing day?

What are the posted hours of the golf course? What course was it and what time were the lights turned out?

Were Mr. Forethat and his playing partner using a golf cart? If not, the course management might not have even known there were any golfers remaining on the course. It was, after all, nighttime and raining. Perhaps they thought a sensible person might have already retired from the course under the circumstances, not realizing of course that most golfers are not sensible.

Mr. Forethat claims that some member of the course staff told him they wanted to close because there weren't that many players. Who was this staff person and what management position did he hold?

I provided Mr. Forethat three rain check policies picked at random from the internet. Two of the three would not have given him a rain check at all and the third would have given him a voucher equal to 4/18th of a future round. He thought none of them applicable.

What has Mr. Forethat done to solve the problem, other than to open a thread on this forum and solicit help. There are entirely too many unanswered questions for anybody to provide Mr. Forethat with the answers he seems to be seeking.

I have previously stated the question he posed was somewhat silly considering he had already played 14 of the 18 holes. The post I made was deleted as part of it may have been off-topic, however, I had already responded to his question prior to your arrival on board.

I am certain my words will be parsed by either you or Mr. Forethat but, until some answers are provided and a little more detail is known, I cannot see that anybody can assist sorting out Mr. Forethat's dilemma.

In conclusion, I have considered your suggestion very thoroughly and have decided to ignore it. Thank you for providing it, though.

Mr forethat will I am sure be responding shortly, I am sure it will go some thing like this, where do I say the points you have raised, you are wrong but I don't think you will dispute it this will be followed by a laughing man on his back. lol

I will not be able to see forethat's reply as he is on my ignored list...

[Forethat]

Let me ask what Mr. Forethat has done to recoup his lost four holes.

I am not trying to recoup our lost four holes. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

Has he been back to the golf course to find out why the lights were turned out?

Ehh, no. We were informed at the time of the crime. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

Has he been back to the golf course to find out what their policies are concerning rain checks?

Ehh, no. Since this isn't a case where a golfer wants to suspend playing due to rain it's not applicable. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

Has he talked to anybody in a position of authority at the golf course to determine if the course had been declared unplayable at any time during his outing day?

Ehh, no. Since we were informed that he course was closed because they wanted to save electricity htere's no need to speculate in other reasons for the closure. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

What are the posted hours of the golf course? What course was it and what time were the lights turned out?

You can tee off until 8PM. In this case they closed at ~8.15 PM. I think the golf club in question is pretty irrelevant.

Were Mr. Forethat and his playing partner using a golf cart? If not, the course management might not have even known there were any golfers remaining on the course. It was, after all, nighttime and raining.

We were using a golf cart. One each. Regardless of cart, since the manager has already informed us that the reason for the closure was to save electricity there's no point arguing this.

Mr. Forethat claims that some member of the course staff told him they wanted to close because there weren't that many players. Who was this staff person and what management position did he hold?

He was the course manager. I am not too sure about this though. I probably want to refer to him as the "shift manager" or similar.

I provided Mr. Forethat three rain check policies picked at random from the internet. Two of the three would not have given him a rain check at all and the third would have given him a voucher equal to 4/18th of a future round. He thought none of them applicable.

Ehh, no. Since this is not a case where a player wants to suspend play and get a refund. Actually, it's the opposite; we DIDN'T want to suspend play.

What has Mr. Forethat done to solve the problem, other than to open a thread on this forum and solicit help. There are entirely too many unanswered questions for anybody to provide Mr. Forethat with the answers he seems to be seeking.

I haven't solicited any "help". I asked a simple question: "Am i wrong when I feel this is equivalent to the Pattaya Jetski scam...?" This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

I am certain my words will be parsed by either you or Mr. Forethat but, until some answers are provided and a little more detail is known, I cannot see that anybody can assist sorting out Mr. Forethat's dilemma.

What appears to be the dilemma? After reading some of your previous posts it is clear that you have a peculiar way of interpreting words; from that perspective you may talk about antique grand fathers clocks. This appears to be a recurring problem when you debate. In this case, it appears it doesn't even help that I tell you explicitly that I am not interested in any help to get a refund or similar. This is, to say the least, most awkward - it is obvious that you lack the ability to follow agreed definitions and language in its entirety.

If we are talking about different things, we will never reach mutual understanding, it will just be a never ending confusion. Communication is key to progress, not only in Thailand. I am not saying that it's the definition itself that's important; we just need to agree on the interpretation of the conditions. You and I could, for instance, agree to call a movie ticket for a fat ugly prostitute wearing an undersized bunny costume, but I can guarantee that we'll get serious problems at the Paragon Cineplex box office.

The question, in this case, is whether I was wrong when I felt this is equivalent to the Pattaya Jetski scam. (as in "have a predefined plan to break an agreement in order to make money"). Again, this should be pretty obvious if you read the initial post, though I'm actually beginning to doubt you ever did. What YOU are talking about, is whether I should get a refund, HOW I should get that refund and finally what my options are in case I want to suspend play. I suggest you start a thread about this if you're interested, but as others and myself have highlighted, that's not the issue here.

[kenny999]

Let me ask what Mr. Forethat has done to recoup his lost four holes.

I am not trying to recoup our lost four holes. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

Has he been back to the golf course to find out why the lights were turned out?

Ehh, no. We were informed at the time of the crime. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

Has he been back to the golf course to find out what their policies are concerning rain checks?

Ehh, no. Since this isn't a case where a golfer wants to suspend playing due to rain it's not applicable. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

Has he talked to anybody in a position of authority at the golf course to determine if the course had been declared unplayable at any time during his outing day?

Ehh, no. Since we were informed that he course was closed because they wanted to save electricity htere's no need to speculate in other reasons for the closure. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

What are the posted hours of the golf course? What course was it and what time were the lights turned out?

You can tee off until 8PM. In this case they closed at ~8.15 PM. I think the golf club in question is pretty irrelevant.

Were Mr. Forethat and his playing partner using a golf cart? If not, the course management might not have even known there were any golfers remaining on the course. It was, after all, nighttime and raining.

We were using a golf cart. One each. Regardless of cart, since the manager has already informed us that the reason for the closure was to save electricity there's no point arguing this.

Mr. Forethat claims that some member of the course staff told him they wanted to close because there weren't that many players. Who was this staff person and what management position did he hold?

He was the course manager. I am not too sure about this though. I probably want to refer to him as the "shift manager" or similar.

I provided Mr. Forethat three rain check policies picked at random from the internet. Two of the three would not have given him a rain check at all and the third would have given him a voucher equal to 4/18th of a future round. He thought none of them applicable.

Ehh, no. Since this is not a case where a player wants to suspend play and get a refund. Actually, it's the opposite; we DIDN'T want to suspend play.

What has Mr. Forethat done to solve the problem, other than to open a thread on this forum and solicit help. There are entirely too many unanswered questions for anybody to provide Mr. Forethat with the answers he seems to be seeking.

I haven't solicited any "help". I asked a simple question: "Am i wrong when I feel this is equivalent to the Pattaya Jetski scam...?" This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

I am certain my words will be parsed by either you or Mr. Forethat but, until some answers are provided and a little more detail is known, I cannot see that anybody can assist sorting out Mr. Forethat's dilemma.

What appears to be the dilemma? After reading some of your previous posts it is clear that you have a peculiar way of interpreting words; from that perspective you may talk about antique grand fathers clocks. This appears to be a recurring problem when you debate. In this case, it appears it doesn't even help that I tell you explicitly that I am not interested in any help to get a refund or similar. This is, to say the least, most awkward - it is obvious that you lack the ability to follow agreed definitions and language in its entirety.

If we are talking about different things, we will never reach mutual understanding, it will just be a never ending confusion. Communication is key to progress, not only in Thailand. I am not saying that it's the definition itself that's important; we just need to agree on the interpretation of the conditions. You and I could, for instance, agree to call a movie ticket for a fat ugly prostitute wearing an undersized bunny costume, but I can guarantee that we'll get serious problems at the Paragon Cineplex box office.

The question, in this case, is whether I was wrong when I felt this is equivalent to the Pattaya Jetski scam. (as in "have a predefined plan to break an agreement in order to make money"). Again, this should be pretty obvious if you read the initial post, though I'm actually beginning to doubt you ever did. What YOU are talking about, is whether I should get a refund, HOW I should get that refund and finally what my options are in case I want to suspend play. I suggest you start a thread about this if you're interested, but as others and myself have highlighted, that's not the issue here.

lol Forethat you are my hero, you are never never wrong, you are one of a kind, love it when you post keep up the good work!!! that post must have taken you ages to compose, initial post this initial post that you crack me up lol bloody hell you are better than wickipedia !! not trying to wind you up it's just great entertainmentt!!!

Still waiting on the post man for the balls promised by you, am I getting them or not?

[Forethat]

lol Forethat you are my hero, you are never never wrong

Of course I am, but in this case the issue was whether this was comparable to the Pattaya Jetski Scam, and nothing else. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

[kenny999]

lol Forethat you are my hero, you are never never wrong

Of course I am, but in this case the issue was whether this was comparable to the Pattaya Jetski Scam, and nothing else. This should be obvious if you read the initial post.

lol balls yes or no?

[chuckd]

Rather than quote your entire response and waste even more band width, let me ask one more question and see if you will give us a straight answer.

If you weren't concerned about a rain check/refund, why did you decide to title this thread as follows...

"Rain-Check/Refund Or What....? Golf course management gone wrong...."

[Forethat]

Rather than quote your entire response and waste even more band width, let me ask one more question and see if you will give us a straight answer.

If you weren't concerned about a rain check/refund, why did you decide to title this thread as follows...

"Rain-Check/Refund Or What....? Golf course management gone wrong...."

Because in case they had offered some sort of compensation the fraudulent behavior could have been dismissed. In case you didn't read the initial post my concern was regarding the intent. If the intent was to close and compensate by offering rain-checks or refunds to players it wouldn't have been a scam, would it...?

[kenny999]

Rather than quote your entire response and waste even more band width, let me ask one more question and see if you will give us a straight answer.

If you weren't concerned about a rain check/refund, why did you decide to title this thread as follows...

"Rain-Check/Refund Or What....? Golf course management gone wrong...."

Because in case they had offered some sort of compensation the fraudulent behavior could have been dismissed. In case you didn't read the initial post my concern was regarding the intent. If the intent was to close and compensate by offering rain-checks or refunds to players it wouldn't have been a scam, would it...?

My god it is not a scam, you were unfortunate that is all. <Snip!>

[chuckd]

Rather than quote your entire response and waste even more band width, let me ask one more question and see if you will give us a straight answer.

If you weren't concerned about a rain check/refund, why did you decide to title this thread as follows...

"Rain-Check/Refund Or What....? Golf course management gone wrong...."

Because in case they had offered some sort of compensation the fraudulent behavior could have been dismissed. In case you didn't read the initial post my concern was regarding the intent. If the intent was to close and compensate by offering rain-checks or refunds to players it wouldn't have been a scam, would it...?

Tell you what. Why don't you go back to the golf course, see the Manager and tell him you want credit for four holes the next time you play evening golf. Be sure and explain everything as you have told it here and then come back and give us his response.

Let me bore you with a personal tale about what happened to me a few years ago. A friend was visiting me from Saudi Arabia and we had gone to Green Valley Rayong to play a morning round. We teed off uneventfully and proceeded on our round. When we arrived at the 6th hole, the old first hole by the driving range, we found a host of Koreans teeing off, flowing directly from the driving range,rather than returning to the new first tee and doing it properly. I would guess there were 30-40 Korean golfer's waiting to tee off, all of them refusing to let us proceed with our round.

After causing something of a minor international incident, we turned our carts around and headed for the clubhouse. Now I could have proceeded to get on the internet and complain about the scam being perpetrated on us by Green Valley but chose, instead, to talk to the golf course Manager and express my displeasure with their actions.

The Manager apologized for the interruption to our round and offered both of us rain checks for a full round,including cart. We felt this was satisfactory and left somewhat satisfied. We then went to Eastern Star and got in our 18 holes.

Did your golf course pull a scam on you? In my opinion, NO, they did not.

What did they have to gain except saving a few baht on the electric bill, and what did you really lose of any material monetary value? You really lost NOTHING of value. All you lost was the privilege of playing those four holes on that particular day.

You seem so concerned about their "intent" in turning off the lights. My guess would be they simply wanted to go home or go have a party somewhere. Again, talking to the Manager might resolve this issue in your mind.

As William Shakespeare might say...This is "much ado about nothing".

[metisdead]

Off topic squabbling posts/comments have been removed.

[richard_smith237]

Rather than quote your entire response and waste even more band width, let me ask one more question and see if you will give us a straight answer.

If you weren't concerned about a rain check/refund, why did you decide to title this thread as follows...

"Rain-Check/Refund Or What....? Golf course management gone wrong...."

Because in case they had offered some sort of compensation the fraudulent behavior could have been dismissed. In case you didn't read the initial post my concern was regarding the intent. If the intent was to close and compensate by offering rain-checks or refunds to players it wouldn't have been a scam, would it...?

Tell you what. Why don't you go back to the golf course, see the Manager and tell him you want credit for four holes the next time you play evening golf. Be sure and explain everything as you have told it here and then come back and give us his response.

Let me bore you with a personal tale about what happened to me a few years ago. A friend was visiting me from Saudi Arabia and we had gone to Green Valley Rayong to play a morning round. We teed off uneventfully and proceeded on our round. When we arrived at the 6th hole, the old first hole by the driving range, we found a host of Koreans teeing off, flowing directly from the driving range,rather than returning to the new first tee and doing it properly. I would guess there were 30-40 Korean golfer's waiting to tee off, all of them refusing to let us proceed with our round.

After causing something of a minor international incident, we turned our carts around and headed for the clubhouse. Now I could have proceeded to get on the internet and complain about the scam being perpetrated on us by Green Valley but chose, instead, to talk to the golf course Manager and express my displeasure with their actions.

The Manager apologized for the interruption to our round and offered both of us rain checks for a full round,including cart. We felt this was satisfactory and left somewhat satisfied. We then went to Eastern Star and got in our 18 holes.

Did your golf course pull a scam on you? In my opinion, NO, they did not.

What did they have to gain except saving a few baht on the electric bill, and what did you really lose of any material monetary value? You really lost NOTHING of value. All you lost was the privilege of playing those four holes on that particular day.

You seem so concerned about their "intent" in turning off the lights. My guess would be they simply wanted to go home or go have a party somewhere. Again, talking to the Manager might resolve this issue in your mind.

As William Shakespeare might say...This is "much ado about nothing".

Chuckd - Thats a good example of a golf course admitting an issue and doing something about it - Although the issue shouldn't have happened in the first place, this is what I would call a good recovery and good customer service, guaranteed to secure your return.

However, if you had visited the manager and if his response was 'so what', that may place you in a more frustrating and similar position to Forethat, who while attempting to complete his round was simply treated with disregard.

I have received similar treatment on a golf course (Pheonix) the most frustrating part of this is that its always after you have paid your money.... Of course it is, you can then either lump it or walk away and loose your money. In this case Forethat was not given any choice - he was simply forced to stop playing after he had paid for a complete round.

Perhaps the course manager made a mistake and face prevented him from admitting it. But no one can argue that this is positive treatment from a golf course, and regardless of whether or not you like him, no one can argue that Forethat has not been treated unfairly.

Did the golf course pull a Scam on Forethat? No, I don't think so. Are they guilty of terrible customer service?, without doubt.

Why post about it on Thai Visa.com? That's what we do isn't it? after reading threads involving T.V. members experiences on other golf courses, I now know not to go to some of them. Including green valley rayong, where I've learnt from your post and if I were ever to make a booking I'd ask if they have any bus tours booked in. In fact I believe that's a good question to ask of any course when making a booking...

[chuckd]

Because in case they had offered some sort of compensation the fraudulent behavior could have been dismissed. In case you didn't read the initial post my concern was regarding the intent. If the intent was to close and compensate by offering rain-checks or refunds to players it wouldn't have been a scam, would it...?

Tell you what. Why don't you go back to the golf course, see the Manager and tell him you want credit for four holes the next time you play evening golf. Be sure and explain everything as you have told it here and then come back and give us his response.

Let me bore you with a personal tale about what happened to me a few years ago. A friend was visiting me from Saudi Arabia and we had gone to Green Valley Rayong to play a morning round. We teed off uneventfully and proceeded on our round. When we arrived at the 6th hole, the old first hole by the driving range, we found a host of Koreans teeing off, flowing directly from the driving range,rather than returning to the new first tee and doing it properly. I would guess there were 30-40 Korean golfer's waiting to tee off, all of them refusing to let us proceed with our round.

After causing something of a minor international incident, we turned our carts around and headed for the clubhouse. Now I could have proceeded to get on the internet and complain about the scam being perpetrated on us by Green Valley but chose, instead, to talk to the golf course Manager and express my displeasure with their actions.

The Manager apologized for the interruption to our round and offered both of us rain checks for a full round,including cart. We felt this was satisfactory and left somewhat satisfied. We then went to Eastern Star and got in our 18 holes.

Did your golf course pull a scam on you? In my opinion, NO, they did not.

What did they have to gain except saving a few baht on the electric bill, and what did you really lose of any material monetary value? You really lost NOTHING of value. All you lost was the privilege of playing those four holes on that particular day.

You seem so concerned about their "intent" in turning off the lights. My guess would be they simply wanted to go home or go have a party somewhere. Again, talking to the Manager might resolve this issue in your mind.

As William Shakespeare might say...This is "much ado about nothing".

Chuckd - Thats a good example of a golf course admitting an issue and doing something about it - Although the issue shouldn't have happened in the first place, this is what I would call a good recovery and good customer service, guaranteed to secure your return.

However, if you had visited the manager and if his response was 'so what', that may place you in a more frustrating and similar position to Forethat, who while attempting to complete his round was simply treated with disregard.

I have received similar treatment on a golf course (Pheonix) the most frustrating part of this is that its always after you have paid your money.... Of course it is, you can then either lump it or walk away and loose your money. In this case Forethat was not given any choice - he was simply forced to stop playing after he had paid for a complete round.

Perhaps the course manager made a mistake and face prevented him from admitting it. But no one can argue that this is positive treatment from a golf course, and regardless of whether or not you like him, no one can argue that Forethat has not been treated unfairly.

Did the golf course pull a Scam on Forethat? No, I don't think so. Are they guilty of terrible customer service?, without doubt.

Why post about it on Thai Visa.com? That's what we do isn't it? after reading threads involving T.V. members experiences on other golf courses, I now know not to go to some of them. Including green valley rayong, where I've learnt from your post and if I were ever to make a booking I'd ask if they have any bus tours booked in. In fact I believe that's a good question to ask of any course when making a booking...

A couple of further comments.

1. What good is it to report an unfortunate incident if Mr. Forethat refuses to name the course, stating it is irrelevant? The only thing we know for certain is it is a lighted course in Bangkok.

2. Green Valley Rayong has a hotel built on the course which caters to the Korean invasion when it occurs. It would do no good to ask about a tour bus since many of them are staying there full time. Up to you about asking the other courses but I doubt any of them would be willing to tell you the truth if you asked.

I am really very cynical about golf course management in Thailand. I do not ever expect it to be congenial or, frankly, very helpful. They are going to do whatever they want to do and really don't care if you never come back to play their course. I certainly do not expect it to be Westernized to the extent of being polite and helpful at the same time.

My 30+ years in LOS have given me the experience to be cynical when it comes to customer service. I simply don't expect much and am, therefore, seldom disappointed.