One-Third Of Thailand 'Disaster' Area: Govt

[MAJIC]

All this and the Government will not declare a state of Emergency. Quite strange really.

Could it be that if they called a SoE? at some stage they might have to call in the in The Army to help out in various ways?

I don't think the Government would like thousands of troops on the street and in the villages (especially official Red villages),it would make them too nervous,after the last Coup!

But what's so diabolical about their objections isn't that the Army will assume power; that's just not going to happen under these circumstances. PTP's main objections are that the Army might be humanized and seen as benefactors to the citizenry. PTP has alot invested in demonizing these folks and they'd rather people die than have that illusion they've worked so hard to create debunked.

Agreed ! either way they can't let be let loose on the peoples side,and given any chance to win the people over.

[whybother]

Yesterday it wasn't a disaster. Today it is.

What changed?

[Bakseedaa]

I just hope when all this is over, this government does everything in its power to help the people affected. Not just themselves.

HaHa.....hope again..!

[animatic]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Edited October 13, 2011 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Truly a horrendous picture. Seems the Dems have lent PTP their election PR guy.

By the way, I didn't know Prada made wellies.

[geriatrickid]

All this and the Government will not declare a state of Emergency. Quite strange really.

What would the state of emergency do aside from suspend civil liberties? The government has all of the power it needs to mount a flood response. Aside from satisfying the desire of some to have martial law, please explain the advantages that such a declaration brings.

What a funny comment coming from a chap whose country will declare a state of emergency at the drop of a hat! This case is nothing to do with suspending civil liberties. There are many reasons why a Government may declare a state of emergency, this is not quite the same as the red shirts burning down Bangkok is it? We are not talking about civil unrest here, or protests or curfews, we are talking about a natural disaster where if you follow the definition of a state of emergency in such conditions, it would be a Government declaration that may suspend some normal functions of the executive, legislative and judicial powers, alert citizens to change their normal behaviours, or order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It would permit local Governors (very importantly in 27 provinces at the moment), full control and discretion to use their budgets as they see fit in order to safe guard the population and other important assets. It would mobilize the military to focus all efforts on full aid to the civilian community in terms of delivering food and water and also using 'grunt' power to assist in the construction of facilities to help prevent/minimize the effects of flooding. Having typed all of that out I cannot believe that you of all people do not know it.

To be quite honest, of all the people I encounter on Thai Visa, I am staggered you raised the question.

That's quite an explosion of emotion. You have made a lot of assumptions applying your western experience to a country where there are different laws and more importantly, a different authority structure. An Emergency Decree in Thailand has a completely different meaning than that used in the typical western country. This is probably why there is some misunderstanding.

I don't think you are aware of the powers that are available to the various levels of government, nor do you understand what an Emergency Decree is in Thailand.

You list all sorts of powers that you think attach to an Emergency Decree, but are you aware that the powers are already available?

It would permit local Governors (very importantly in 27 provinces at the moment), full control and discretion to use their budgets as they see fit in order to safe guard the population and other important assets.

INCORRECT. Are you aware that those governors are appointed by the Ministry of the Interior? The Ministry has all of those powers now. In fact its scope and range of authority is even greater. MOI officials, have the statutory authority to direct and order government officials from other central ministries and departments at the provincial and district levels. The MOI has responsibility over: the Royal Thai Police, the internal security apparatus including paramilitary units, the local Tambon administrations, disaster management, land management, and public works. Do you not understand that the authority is already there? You might want to look at the TAO Act.

It would mobilize the military to focus all efforts on full aid to the civilian community in terms of delivering food and water and also using 'grunt' power to assist in the construction of facilities to help prevent/minimize the effects of flooding.

INCORRECT The military has already been deployed.There are only a limited number of vehicles and aircraft available. The military is mostly untrained infantry and they are not much use. This isn't a western military where there is a pool of heavy equipment and qualified trades people. If you think you can just dispatch 5000 troops to sandbag, you are wrong. Those troops need to be transported, to be housed and to be fed. Where are you going to billet these troops in the flood zones, when all available shelters are being used for civilians? The logistics of moving tens of thousands of troops from bases would take away from the ongoing relief operation. The MOI in conjunction with the local authorities is addressing the feeding centers and the MOI is co-coordinating the use of private sector heavy equipment. The Thai military engineers and specialists are already deployed.

In Thailand an Emergency Decree is indeed about suspending civil liberties. Look at the standard language of an Emergency Decree;

"Emergency situation" means a situation, which affects or may affect the public order of the people or endangers the security of the State or may cause the country or any part of the country to fall into a state of difficulty or contains offenses relating to terrorism under the Penal Code, a battle or war, pursuant to which it is necessary to enact emergency measures to preserve the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State of the Kingdom of Thailand under the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand, independence and territorial integrity, the interests of the nation, compliance with the law, the safety of the people, the normal living of the people, the protection of rights, liberties and public order or public interest,or the aversion or remedy of damages arising from urgent and serious public calamity.

If you read the legal definition, you'll quickly see that the Thai Emergency Decree is not necessary.

In plain English, the MOI already has the authority to respond and to allocate monies. The military is already deployed.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Scott
formatting

[bkkjames]

Why don't they just invite the us 7th fleet that has been basically radiated out of japan and cruising the north pacific for a little work/vacation here?

[Thaddeus]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Well, at least she didn't make them all stand in a line so she could walk on their heads.

[phutoie2]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Nice try but her publicity dept produced this pic much earlier, in September, Yingluck at Lop Buri.

[whybother]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

<snipped pic>

[Thai at Heart]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Well, at least she didn't make them all stand in a line so she could walk on their heads.

quote of the day. a little humour to lighten the mood is always welcome

[animatic]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Well, at least she didn't make them all stand in a line so she could walk on their heads.

quote of the day. a little humour to lighten the mood is always welcome

Agreed on the humor needed...

Maybe:

Her brother wants her to walk on water

to make everyone believe the legend is real.

Edited October 13, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Nice try but her publicity dept produced this pic much earlier, in September, Yingluck at Lop Buri.

Like I said they slipped a cog.

Lost their spin cycle.

Or maybe she can't stand the leaches.

In any case the picture and walkway really is world class poor judgment.

[ratcatcher]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Nice try but her publicity dept produced this pic much earlier, in September, Yingluck at Lop Buri.

Like I said they slipped a cog.

Lost their spin cycle.

Or maybe she can't stand the leaches.

In any case the picture and walkway really is world class poor judgment.

Since an element of humour has been introduced here, I half closed my eyes and looked at the photo of the P.M. and visualized....

Edited October 13, 2011 by ratcatcher

[geriatrickid]

I prefer this image, Can you spot the differences?

[Thaddeus]

I prefer this image, Can you spot the differences?

One has natural floatation devices?

[SAffer]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Let's be honest... she is possibly the hottest PM in the world, but not much more than a pretty face.

[MaxYakov]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Nice try but her publicity dept produced this pic much earlier, in September, Yingluck at Lop Buri.

Like I said they slipped a cog.

Lost their spin cycle.

Or maybe she can't stand the leaches.

In any case the picture and walkway really is world class poor judgment.

Since an element of humour has been introduced here, I half closed my eyes and looked at the photo of the P.M. and visualized....

Good one! I thought you were going to cut back on the 'POTC'? Withdrawal symptoms, maybe?

[MaxYakov]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Actually, this shot gives me a higher opinion of her. Abhisit can wade around in waist-deep, contaminated water all he wants as a (no doubt) PR stunt and risk getting a Waterborne Disease. At least she is showing some [un?]common sense. Plus she keeps her Gucci (or was that Prada? as someone speculated earlier) welles dry! That shows me she has a sincere respect for hard-earned wealth. She could have mussed-up her hair a little to look even hotter, though. Just my .02 satang.

Edited October 13, 2011 by MaxYakov

[losworld]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Truly a horrendous picture. Seems the Dems have lent PTP their election PR guy.

By the way, I didn't know Prada made wellies.

A picture is worth a thousand words and this sums up the current gov't. All that is missing is Thaksin's reflection in the muddy waters:)

[pisico]

I spent 6 hours yesterday helping to fill up bags with sand in Pathun Thani. I live in a relatively flood free zone in Bangkok Noi. But folks in Nontabutry and surrounding areas are really in a tough spot.

I saw it first hand. I returned home soaking wet and covered with mud.

If all the energy displayed in this forum were put to a better use such as helping those in need instead of criticizing and speculating on political aspects of this disaster (decades in the making through several administrations), Bangkok and surrounding areas could benefit and be spared from a worse fate.

[jalansanitwong]

This picture from yesterday is soooo ironic.

I remember pics last year of Abhisit and others with rolled up or wet pants,

walking through to talk with people and assess the situation, not parading past people in waist deep water, on your own private raised walkway, not a hair out of place. The PR department has slipped a cog.

Truly a horrendous picture. Seems the Dems have lent PTP their election PR guy.

By the way, I didn't know Prada made wellies.

A picture is worth a thousand words and this sums up the current gov't. All that is missing is Thaksin's reflection in the muddy waters:)

It sure does ! Why are the Thai's so servile towards these quacks . It never stops. This PM woman will spend more on a handbag than what the average Thai earns in 3 years and still have the nerve to say she represents the people.

[MaxYakov]

I spent 6 hours yesterday helping to fill up bags with sand in Pathun Thani. I live in a relatively flood free zone in Bangkok Noi. But folks in Nontabutry and surrounding areas are really in a tough spot.

I saw it first hand. I returned home soaking wet and covered with mud.

If all the energy displayed in this forum were put to a better use such as helping those in need instead of criticizing and speculating on political aspects of this disaster (decades in the making through several administrations), Bangkok and surrounding areas could benefit and be spared from a worse fate.

Thanks for posting this. However, FWIW, someone on another flood topic apprised 'farangs' that work in any form, even without compensation (volunteer), without a work permit could lead to arrest, fine, imprisonment or deportation. I suspect it is usually an inclusive 'or'. For some reason he was disconcertingly using smiley faces in his posts and was adamant about the veracity of his assertion. I told him this was good news to me because now I have a legal reason not to even volunteer to help (or some such).

[WarpSpeed]

It is strange that looking at the flood maps upriver of the Chao Phraya from Bangkok seems to be backed up.

It is like the river goes through a bottleneck in Bangkok.

One would think BKK It is almost intentional that the other provinces are flooded but not Bangkok.

Is the government purposely trickling the river flow before it gets to Bkk or is there some kind of bottleneck in Nonthaburi?

Most of the canal levels I've seen in Bkk are pretty normal for the rainy season. Not much difference since last year's levels.

The flooding in Bkk I've seen like in Ratchada, etc. I think is just from bad infrastructure, clogged canals, clogged sewer drainage pipes, or either low level homes.

Like those houses that are below street level and those roads that are below the canal level.

I can't believe and don't see 1-2 meter floods in central Bangkok.

I live in Thawi Watthana and unlike the news reports say, the roads here are pretty dry.

Even the canal water level seems to be ok, not unusually high or anything.

Well it rained like hell ahead of the high tide today, but no serious flooding in "inner Bangkok", even down by the river. Half an hour it was gone.

That is what I'm saying. I just don't see how the Chao Phraya can flood up north yet Bkk is pretty dry. There has to be a bottle neck or diversion somewhere.

Of course there is..

[WarpSpeed]

It is strange that looking at the flood maps upriver of the Chao Phraya from Bangkok seems to be backed up.

It is like the river goes through a bottleneck in Bangkok.

One would think BKK It is almost intentional that the other provinces are flooded but not Bangkok.

Is the government purposely trickling the river flow before it gets to Bkk or is there some kind of bottleneck in Nonthaburi?

Most of the canal levels I've seen in Bkk are pretty normal for the rainy season. Not much difference since last year's levels.

The flooding in Bkk I've seen like in Ratchada, etc. I think is just from bad infrastructure, clogged canals, clogged sewer drainage pipes, or either low level homes.

Like those houses that are below street level and those roads that are below the canal level.

I can't believe and don't see 1-2 meter floods in central Bangkok.

I live in Thawi Watthana and unlike the news reports say, the roads here are pretty dry.

Even the canal water level seems to be ok, not unusually high or anything.

Well it rained like hell ahead of the high tide today, but no serious flooding in "inner Bangkok", even down by the river. Half an hour it was gone.

That is what I'm saying. I just don't see how the Chao Phraya can flood up north yet Bkk is pretty dry. There has to be a bottle neck or diversion somewhere.

No bottle neck or diversion.

Simply put, the Chao Phraya is contained by floodwalls in Bangkok and there is an elaborate system of pumps, gates, canals and underground drainage tunnels that have, so far, proven effective at preventing any serious flooding in the capital.

Complete contradiction.... This is the very definition of bottle necked and diverted and WHY it's causing backups up stream, it's intentional to allow the flood system downstream to handle the flow without serious flooding like is happening upstream..

Edited October 13, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[mdechgan]

Complete contradiction.... This is the very definition of bottle necked and diverted and WHY it's causing backups up stream, it's intentional to allow the flood system downstream to handle the flow without serious flooding like is happening upstream..

The water has to go somewhere. One would think to release the water and have it flow downstream to the ocean as fast as possible instead of diverting to smaller rivers, canals and closing gates to block the water. Also the Chao phraya river is at its widest and deepest in Bangkok with the most capacity through Bangkok.

Nakorn Sawan was at risk because it is where the Nan and Ping rivers meet to form the Chao Phraya.

The Tha Chin river was at capacity and flooded Chainat and Suphan Buri so that means the Chao Phraya river has very poor flow towards and through Bangkok. I am just wondering if it was intentional, some geographical flaw or the river through Bangkok is very obstructed.

Maybe the garbage or building along the river restrict the flow somehow.

The only exception would be if the the ocean tides were significantly higher than the river allowing seawater to come in (like the Thames river barrier)

I just think the river through Bangkok can easily handle more capacity than the current 4,000 cbm/sec allowed. The Tha Chin river's capacity is only about 25% of the Chao Phraya. Just get the river to flow and alleviate the pressure upstream.

[WarpSpeed]

what are you talking about? It's already overflowing with only about 2/3rds of what is to be expected. Besides the things you're referring to are there already regardless and causing the back up you're speaking of.

Edited October 13, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[sirchai]

I just hope when all this is over, this government does everything in its power to help the people affected. Not just themselves.

Yingluck will get all fixed. She's the hero.......

[sirchai]

I spent 6 hours yesterday helping to fill up bags with sand in Pathun Thani. I live in a relatively flood free zone in Bangkok Noi. But folks in Nontabutry and surrounding areas are really in a tough spot.

I saw it first hand. I returned home soaking wet and covered with mud.

If all the energy displayed in this forum were put to a better use such as helping those in need instead of criticizing and speculating on political aspects of this disaster (decades in the making through several administrations), Bangkok and surrounding areas could benefit and be spared from a worse fate.

Why are here so may illegals, working without a work permit? Good that you saw it first hand. Guess others were also soaked wet, without a place to stay and change clothes.

The labor department is already informed that foreigners are working without a permit. Bangkok and surrounding areas could indeed benefit if not so many criminal foreigners would try to make a fast baht........

[SOTIRIOS]

All this and the Government will not declare a state of Emergency. Quite strange really.

What would the state of emergency do aside from suspend civil liberties? The government has all of the power it needs to mount a flood response. Aside from satisfying the desire of some to have martial law, please explain the advantages that such a declaration brings.

It would entail responsible, coordinated action, accountable expenditures skill and money........one that is lacking and the other that they are not willing to part with......I guess..........(no other logical explanation)...........I am 'in the dark' and if 1-2 meters hit where I live (WHICH SOME OFFICIAL DEEMED 'NOT SERIOUS)....it will cost me at least 50,000 baht in home appliances and furniture....not to mention books and paperwork....and where to turn, what to do???