Ilr

[micky44]

Right chaps not posted on here for a long long time now as the wife and i have long since jumped through all the hoops. But a friend of the wife who she works with is just about to apply for ILR, Went out for a beer with the couple , ( they have been married now two years) at the week end, and talking about he is getting ready to submit his pappers, i said : is she on the gas, elec, water bill ? answer, no. is she on the coom charge ? answer NO i have been claiming 25% discount for living alone, joint bank account ? NO, Driving license ? NO, err so what have you got then ? oh we have some letters from the hospital and dentist!! i could not beleive what i was hearing, know it is a genuine marriage 100%. but i guess he is going to have some major problems, which is a shame as his wife is a really nice lady, or did i just go over board with all the paper work i submitted ? he says he is confident that you do not need all : that stuff !! your thoughts please chaps, i know what mine are. cheers.

[bobrussell]

I have just sent our paperwork off today. They need to supply six addressed letters from at least two different sources. Three can be addressed to one partner, three to the other. Ideally some should be dated towards the start the two years, others more recent.

Bank statements will do, GP registration letter is fine. If they look hard enough there should be something around! The single occupancy discount is not appropriate as your friend has stopped being a single occupant! This must be corrected and any extra tax due should be paid both because it is owed but more crucially because proof is needed that the couple are living together. The UKBA can and may check with the local authority as the application form includes consent for them to make checks!

A phone call to the local authority with an apology and pleading ignorance or forgetfulness should get the matter cleared up but they will recoup the lost council tax. At the same time the bill should be changed to joint names. Five more to go!

Those people that get complacent with the UKBA and the rules can end up making some very expensive mistakes!

Edited October 19, 2011 by bobrussell

[potter09]

Form SET(M):SECTION 10 Documents

"We need 6 letters or other documents addressed to you jointly or in both your names. If you do not have enough items in your joint names, you may also provide items addressed to each of you individually if they show the same address for both of you. Examples of acceptable letters and documents are listed below. They must be originals.

The dates of the letters or documents should spread over the whole 2 years. They should be from at least 3 different sources.

Please give an explanation on a separate sheet if you cannot provide 6 items; if the documents are not addressed to both of you; or if they do not cover the 2-year period. If you and your partner lived with relatives or friends for some or all of the 2-year period, please provide a letter from the relative(s) and/or friend(s) confirming this.

If you did not live together for any part of the 2-year period, tell us the reasons for this and whether you stayed in contact with each other during this time, and provide any relevant supporting evidence.

letters or other documents from government departments or agencies, for example HM Revenue and Customs, Dept for Work and Pensions, DVLA and TV Licensing

letters or other documents from your GP, a hospital or other local health service about medical treatments, appointments, home visits or other medical matters

letters or other documents from government departments or agencies,

bank statements/letters

water rates bills or statements

building society savings books/letters

mortgage statements/agreement

council tax bills or statements

tenancy agreement(s)

electricity and/or gas bills or statements

telephone bills or statements"

[micky44]

Form SET(M):SECTION 10 Documents

"We need 6 letters or other documents addressed to you jointly or in both your names. If you do not have enough items in your joint names, you may also provide items addressed to each of you individually if they show the same address for both of you. Examples of acceptable letters and documents are listed below. They must be originals.

The dates of the letters or documents should spread over the whole 2 years. They should be from at least 3 different sources.

Please give an explanation on a separate sheet if you cannot provide 6 items; if the documents are not addressed to both of you; or if they do not cover the 2-year period. If you and your partner lived with relatives or friends for some or all of the 2-year period, please provide a letter from the relative(s) and/or friend(s) confirming this.

If you did not live together for any part of the 2-year period, tell us the reasons for this and whether you stayed in contact with each other during this time, and provide any relevant supporting evidence.

letters or other documents from government departments or agencies, for example HM Revenue and Customs, Dept for Work and Pensions, DVLA and TV Licensing

letters or other documents from your GP, a hospital or other local health service about medical treatments, appointments, home visits or other medical matters

letters or other documents from government departments or agencies,

bank statements/letters

water rates bills or statements

building society savings books/letters

mortgage statements/agreement

council tax bills or statements

tenancy agreement(s)

electricity and/or gas bills or statements

telephone bills or statements"

Hi yes i am more than aware of what is needed, that was not the question ! but thanks for the time you took to copy and paste.

[bobrussell]

If your friend is really desperate I would think the UKBA would accept a letter from an employer, priest, teacher etc who has reason to know you are living together. I am not sure how this would be received but it may help. If the applicant went to college to complete an ESOL course they should be able to confirm the applicants registration address. I assume the home address is recorded if the applicant has done the life in the UK test. If anything is bough from a shop get the guarantee in the applicants name.

I included an envelope addressed to my wife from the local DVLA office. It had DVLA and the date franked on the envelope! This was an additional item not one of the six!

Sometimes you need to do a bit of lateral thinking!

The UKBA are unlikely to reject an ILR application unless the evidence is very weak because there is an automatic right to appeal as long as the applicant has not overstayed but it cannot be worth the hassle of taking this risk.

The doctors surgery is always a good place to start although I have a feeling the doctor may charge to write a letter confirming the registered address. Our practice charges about £30 for this sort of thing!!

[Thongkorn]

I am in a similar position ,

I/We will be applying for ILR for my wife in three weeks , I pay all the Utility bills none are in joint names and they are standing orders,including the council tax , I/We own our House so there are no Mortgage statements. But she has a National Insurance number, and has been paying tax, also she has been to Collage to attain her Esol levels,"one and two." she has letters from our Doctor and Dentist, and Her Employment agency. also Bank statements and an ISA. There should be plenty there to chose from. She can get references from Employers, Even from the Neighbor's. I cannot for see why they should find fault in her as she has a job pays tax and has been to collage. Can anybody else see any reason why they can refuse her ILR.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Thongkorn

[7by7]

I cannot for see why they should find fault in her as she has a job pays tax and has been to collage. Can anybody else see any reason why they can refuse her ILR.

To satisfy the requirements for ILR as a spouse or partner the couple must show that they have been living together in the UK for at least the last two years; which is why letters addressed to applicant and partner are required.

That the applicant has been working and paying tax is irrelevant; although letters from HMRC and the DWP are excellent evidence of the applicant's address.

Remember that whilst it is best to have all 6 letters addressed jointly, if this is not possible a mix of letters addressed to you each individually is acceptable.

Provided the applicant has been living with their partner in the UK for at least the required minimum time with the appropriate visa or leave to remain, the couple have adequate finances and accommodation and the applicant has kept out of trouble with the law etc. then I can see no reason why an ILR application would be rejected.

However, micky44, that you friend has illegally been claiming the single occupancy discount on his council tax for the last two years could cause major problems; if not with his wife's ILR application then for him with the council. He has been breaking the law and may find himself deep in the brown and smelly! Better he contacts the council now to rectify the situation than wait until he is discovered.

[potter09]

I cannot for see why they should find fault in her as she has a job pays tax and has been to collage. Can anybody else see any reason why they can refuse her ILR.

To satisfy the requirements for ILR as a spouse or partner the couple must show that they have been living together in the UK for at least the last two years; which is why letters addressed to applicant and partner are required.

That the applicant has been working and paying tax is irrelevant; although letters from HMRC and the DWP are excellent evidence of the applicant's address.

Remember that whilst it is best to have all 6 letters addressed jointly, if this is not possible a mix of letters addressed to you each individually is acceptable.

Provided the applicant has been living with their partner in the UK for at least the required minimum time with the appropriate visa or leave to remain, the couple have adequate finances and accommodation and the applicant has kept out of trouble with the law etc. then I can see no reason why an ILR application would be rejected.

However, micky44, that you friend has illegally been claiming the single occupancy discount on his council tax for the last two years could cause major problems; if not with his wife's ILR application then for him with the council. He has been breaking the law and may find himself deep in the brown and smelly! Better he contacts the council now to rectify the situation than wait until he is discovered.

Whilst it is clear that SET(M) form tries to establish that the applicant & partner have "adequate finances", it is not clear that the questions posed are explicitly aimed at establishing the couple have adequate "accommodation". Of course, accommodation is a specific issue dealt with at 'settelement visa' stage.

Edited October 21, 2011 by potter09

[7by7]

True, but then so are finances!

However, I wonder what the response from the UKBA would be to an ILR application where the couples original accommodation was no longer available and they were currently sleeping on a friend's sitting room floor!

[potter09]

True, but then so are finances!

However, I wonder what the response from the UKBA would be to an ILR application where the couples original accommodation was no longer available and they were currently sleeping on a friend's sitting room floor!

The point is SET(M) does not specifically attempt to explore the adequacy of accommodation as you suggested in a previous post. It mainly seeks to establish(once again following 'settlment visa' stage) the adequacy of a couple's finances,continuing relationship, and whether or not any crimes have been committed.

With regard to your hypothetical scenario, first, there's no question in SET(M) form seeking such information as to accommodation, thus wonder why such unsolicited information needs to be supplied even if that's the case. In such situation, UKBA may ask whether staying with friends is a temporary measure, when they would return to alternative accommodation (and where), and the circumstances leading to the unavailability of original accommodation. There's neither a requirement nor any necessity to stay in 'original accommodation'(if you mean the accommodation for the purposes of 'settlement visa) at the time of ILR application; as I mentioned earlier, SET(M) does not seek to establish the adequacy of accommodation at the time of ILR application. I very much doubt the UKBA wants to know if a couple is sleeping on someone's sitting room floor or elsewhere if it is due to exceptional circumstances such as severe damage to one's property making it uninhabitable etc. In any event,SET(M) form is not designed to deal with such scenarios. It is also a fact, even for purposes of 'settelement visa', a couple is entitled stay with friends/family as long as the requisite accommodation criteria are met.

[7by7]

Immigration Rules, Requirements for indefinite leave to remain for the spouse or civil partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom, Para 287(a)(i)(f)(iv)

there will be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively

I know that "own or occupy exclusively" does not preclude living with a friend or relative, as long as there is at least one room for the couple's exclusive use. I have never said otherwise.

But camping out on someone's sitting room floor does not give the couple a room for their exclusive use. Although if they could show, if required, that it was a temporary measure due to some emergency then it would probably be acceptable. It was an extreme example, anyway.

For the vast majority of applicants accommodation is not an issue. The address given on Form SET(M) will be the same as that given on the original Form VAF4A or, if applicable, previous Form FLR(M) and the letters provided under section 10 of SET(M). However, it is my understanding that if one or more of these addresses are different then the UKBA can make further enquiries; as they can on any point which they wish to clarify.

If my understanding is wrong, will you kindly direct me to the appropriate guidance, thank you.

[micky44]

right folks, an update on this post.My mates wifes settlement visa expired on 18 dec. they have applied for FLR. she has failed three times the KOL test, is now doing the ESOL route at college but as of yet has not taken the exam. And to top it all she has just got the results back from her a one english test, and she has failed that also, today she has an appointment for her finger prints. whats going to happen to her ? is she going to have to return to Thailand to re- apply for a settlement visa ? thanks for any help. oh she is working full time in the UK.

[7by7]

If she did not provide an A1, or equivalent, English certificate in speaking and listening with her initial settlement visa application then she will have needed to do so with her FLR application; if she hasn't then the application will be refused and technically she will have no right to remain in the UK and should return to Thailand to start the process all over again.

If her application is refused and she carried on with her job then she would be working illegally and her employer could be subject to a fine of up to £10,000 for continuing to employ her.

I think your friend needs some professional advice.

[tahaan]

If UKBA are satisfied that she's in a genuine relationship they may grant discretionary leave to remain. The HRA will make it difficult for them to make her leave.

[7by7]

Immigration Rules Para284(ix)( a )

the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference) unless:

(i) the applicant is aged 65 or over at the time he makes his application; or

(ii) the applicant has a physical or mental condition that would prevent him from meeting the requirement; or;

(iii) there are exceptional compassionate circumstances that would prevent the applicant from meeting the requirement

From what has been said, I don't think she meets one of these exceptions.

IMHO, any attempt to stay using human rights legislation would be a lengthy and expensive exercise with very little chance of success. Quicker and cheaper to return to Thailand and apply again.

Of course, if she has satisfied the A1 language requirement then a FLR application should be a formality.

[micky44]

Immigration Rules Para284(ix)( a )

the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference) unless:

(i) the applicant is aged 65 or over at the time he makes his application; or

(ii) the applicant has a physical or mental condition that would prevent him from meeting the requirement; or;

(iii) there are exceptional compassionate circumstances that would prevent the applicant from meeting the requirement

From what has been said, I don't think she meets one of these exceptions.

IMHO, any attempt to stay using human rights legislation would be a lengthy and expensive exercise with very little chance of success. Quicker and cheaper to return to Thailand and apply again.

Of course, if she has satisfied the A1 language requirement then a FLR application should be a formality.

latest up date. she has not passed the A1 english test nor the esol test, applied for FLR after 2 years here, and has just received another 2 year FLR. so much for having to return back to thailand to re/apply for settlement.

[bobrussell]

Immigration Rules Para284(ix)( a )

the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference) unless:

(i) the applicant is aged 65 or over at the time he makes his application; or

(ii) the applicant has a physical or mental condition that would prevent him from meeting the requirement; or;

(iii) there are exceptional compassionate circumstances that would prevent the applicant from meeting the requirement

From what has been said, I don't think she meets one of these exceptions.

IMHO, any attempt to stay using human rights legislation would be a lengthy and expensive exercise with very little chance of success. Quicker and cheaper to return to Thailand and apply again.

Of course, if she has satisfied the A1 language requirement then a FLR application should be a formality.

latest up date. she has not passed the A1 english test nor the esol test, applied for FLR after 2 years here, and has just received another 2 year FLR. so much for having to return back to thailand to re/apply for settlement.

Presumably the UKBA have granted this on 'compassionate' grounds. It may be they are not looking for a fight! There does seem to be a degree of discretion applied to FLR. My wife has a friend who has been unable to provide A1/ESOL and has been here for a number of years. Perhaps they are just happy to keep taking the application fee every two years!

[Thongkorn]

Get her to do the ESOL Course they will help,her through. and there are many other people who will help her on the Course. If she gets ass-ed she will get her Speaking and listening, that counts as one level and then if she does the second level that will count as proving that she has gone up one grade. Also my wife is not on any Utility bills , i just wrote a letter explaining the fact and sent my bank accounts with the IDL application , it was excepted and now we have IDL.

Why go back to Thailand to re apply use the money on ESOL courses.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Thongkorn

[micky44]

Get her to do the ESOL Course they will help,her through. and there are many other people who will help her on the Course. If she gets ass-ed she will get her Speaking and listening, that counts as one level and then if she does the second level that will count as proving that she has gone up one grade. Also my wife is not on any Utility bills , i just wrote a letter explaining the fact and sent my bank accounts with the IDL application , it was excepted and now we have IDL.

Why go back to Thailand to re apply use the money on ESOL courses.

i think you need to read the post from the beginning !