Suzuki Vitara-Lpg Safe?

[cheeryble]

Hi the title says it. I have heard all modern cars, given that they all have hard exhaust valves nowadays, can use LPG safely (vis a vis valve damage, seal damage etc) Others say it depends on the make and maybe model. It is obvious that Toyota Corollas are OK as all the BKK taxis use LPG. I have it from a friend that their Suzuki Caribbean has had long use with LPG and is fine. On the other hand a CRV owner friend lost an exhaust valve....whether it was the LPG or not I have no idea but it's suspicious. And what about seals? I'd be grateful for any advice I would like to change next week if I decide on it. One sub question. The friend with the Caribbean (who also runs a CRV on LPG happily so far) says it doesn't change from petrol to LPG until you're over 50kph. That sounds odd. Can anyone explain? cheers Cheeryble

[cheeryble]

I'll keep this visible a bit longer in the hope of an answer......

[katabeachbum]

Od carribean 50kmh info, as where would LPG get speed info from in a carb engine vehicle with mecanical speedo, and why not change before 50kmh?

Usually an automatic system changes to LPG when coolant has reached 65C, as thats what temp is needed in vaporator to blend LPG to perfection.

Vitara, basicly no ide, but if you tell what engine, I can check if any LPG durability history is available

Honda 4 valves, few run more than 60k km without issues, non 100k km, in our 60 car (taxis) installations

and Toyotas are not obvios LPG durable, the taxis have a modified 1,6 and new Altis 1,6 comes with 2 different engines. One for gasohol/petrol, one for CNG/LPG/ gasoho/petrol, all taxis use the latter engine

in general a petrol engine with 2 valves (not 4 or 5) is more LPG durable, as it has more head surface to absorbe the increased combustion temp caused by LPG

[cheeryble]

Od carribean 50kmh info, as where would LPG get speed info from in a carb engine vehicle with mecanical speedo, and why not change before 50kmh?

Usually an automatic system changes to LPG when coolant has reached 65C, as thats what temp is needed in vaporator to blend LPG to perfection.

Vitara, basicly no ide, but if you tell what engine, I can check if any LPG durability history is available

Honda 4 valves, few run more than 60k km without issues, non 100k km, in our 60 car (taxis) installations

and Toyotas are not obvios LPG durable, the taxis have a modified 1,6 and new Altis 1,6 comes with 2 different engines. One for gasohol/petrol, one for CNG/LPG/ gasoho/petrol, all taxis use the latter engine

in general a petrol engine with 2 valves (not 4 or 5) is more LPG durable, as it has more head surface to absorbe the increased combustion temp caused by LPG

Thanks Beachbum

That makes good sense about the head area the heat needs to be transferred away I guess.

Important about Toyota too because my gf runs a slightly ageing but very serviceable Corolla 1.3, think it's about 15 years with 240,000 km on the clock and I have suggested now that the conversion prices have come down she uses LPG. She just makes two trips a day half an hour 27km each way so I suggested the manual conversion as she can just turn the switch one time per trip whereas I'm thinking of the automatic as I'm in and out of the car all the time. Manual only 14,000 now and Auto 24,500.

I'll look up my engine but it's the standard Vitara 1.6 petrol injection think the year is 2000 +/- one year. It's in really good nick I've kept the engine up well after a silly mistake, new head, new water pump, rad, mounts etc though still on only 150km. All done by Suzuki. I'd like to keep this car indefinitely if I can reduce my 6000 per month to say 2500 or 3000 with LPG, but don't want to screw it.

Thanks Cheeryble

[monty]

It's all a number's game to me. Even if it might mess up your engine over time, you will likely still come out ahead running LPG, but, and this is a big but, only if the LPG price stays where it is now!

It seems that worst case an engine with a fragile top end will still get 50,000 km before needing any work done.

At the moment, an engine doing 10km/l petrol (should do 8 km/l or better on LPG), and you saved a cool 95,000 Baht in fuel costs ( with 12 B/l for lpg and 34 B/l for petrol) over 50,000km.

Minus installation and a top end overhaul should still see you well in the black. More mileage before trouble (or no trouble), and of course you get more ahead...

Now if LPG shoots up in price, you'd easily see any profits melt away. Not unlikely at all considering LPG is subsidized, and can end at any time!

Up till now always postponed, as of course the whole of Thailand cooks on LPG and politicians are very reluctant touching anything that influences the population's foodcosts...

[cheeryble]

It's all a number's game to me. Even if it might mess up your engine over time, you will likely still come out ahead running LPG, but, and this is a big but, only if the LPG price stays where it is now!

It seems that worst case an engine with a fragile top end will still get 50,000 km before needing any work done.

At the moment, an engine doing 10km/l petrol (should do 8 km/l or better on LPG), and you saved a cool 95,000 Baht in fuel costs ( with 12 B/l for lpg and 34 B/l for petrol) over 50,000km.

Minus installation and a top end overhaul should still see you well in the black. More mileage before trouble (or no trouble), and of course you get more ahead...

Now if LPG shoots up in price, you'd easily see any profits melt away. Not unlikely at all considering LPG is subsidized, and can end at any time!

Up till now always postponed, as of course the whole of Thailand cooks on LPG and politicians are very reluctant touching anything that influences the population's foodcosts...

Thanks for the thoughts MontyOut of interest what would you price a valve/seat job a for a four cylinder like a Vitara?(a cousin of my gf has run a Carribean on gas for 4 years plenty of mileage, and the LPG place someone has a Vitara conversion they said 3 or 4 years ago)

Cheeryble

[cheeryble]

It's all a number's game to me. Even if it might mess up your engine over time, you will likely still come out ahead running LPG, but, and this is a big but, only if the LPG price stays where it is now!

It seems that worst case an engine with a fragile top end will still get 50,000 km before needing any work done.

At the moment, an engine doing 10km/l petrol (should do 8 km/l or better on LPG), and you saved a cool 95,000 Baht in fuel costs ( with 12 B/l for lpg and 34 B/l for petrol) over 50,000km.

Minus installation and a top end overhaul should still see you well in the black. More mileage before trouble (or no trouble), and of course you get more ahead...

Now if LPG shoots up in price, you'd easily see any profits melt away. Not unlikely at all considering LPG is subsidized, and can end at any time!

Up till now always postponed, as of course the whole of Thailand cooks on LPG and politicians are very reluctant touching anything that influences the population's foodcosts...

Thanks for the thoughts MontyOut of interest what would you price a valve/seat job a for a four cylinder like a Vitara?(a cousin of my gf has run a Carribean on gas for 4 years plenty of mileage, and the LPG place someone has a Vitara conversion they said 3 or 4 years ago)

Cheeryble

[monty]

Really no idea for a Vitarra top end job.

I paid 9000 Baht for an old Volvo 245, but obviously this is an old and very easy to work on 8 valve engine.

Doubt it would be more then 20 K Baht though...

[goodguy]

Od carribean 50kmh info, as where would LPG get speed info from in a carb engine vehicle with mecanical speedo, and why not change before 50kmh?

Usually an automatic system changes to LPG when coolant has reached 65C, as thats what temp is needed in vaporator to blend LPG to perfection.

Vitara, basicly no ide, but if you tell what engine, I can check if any LPG durability history is available

Honda 4 valves, few run more than 60k km without issues, non 100k km, in our 60 car (taxis) installations

and Toyotas are not obvios LPG durable, the taxis have a modified 1,6 and new Altis 1,6 comes with 2 different engines. One for gasohol/petrol, one for CNG/LPG/ gasoho/petrol, all taxis use the latter engine

in general a petrol engine with 2 valves (not 4 or 5) is more LPG durable, as it has more head surface to absorbe the increased combustion temp caused by LPG

Thanks Beachbum

That makes good sense about the head area the heat needs to be transferred away I guess.

Important about Toyota too because my gf runs a slightly ageing but very serviceable Corolla 1.3, think it's about 15 years with 240,000 km on the clock and I have suggested now that the conversion prices have come down she uses LPG. She just makes two trips a day half an hour 27km each way so I suggested the manual conversion as she can just turn the switch one time per trip whereas I'm thinking of the automatic as I'm in and out of the car all the time. Manual only 14,000 now and Auto 24,500.

I'll look up my engine but it's the standard Vitara 1.6 petrol injection think the year is 2000 +/- one year. It's in really good nick I've kept the engine up well after a silly mistake, new head, new water pump, rad, mounts etc though still on only 150km. All done by Suzuki. I'd like to keep this car indefinitely if I can reduce my 6000 per month to say 2500 or 3000 with LPG, but don't want to screw it.

Thanks Cheeryble

All done by Suzuki? Which Suzuki workshop, where? We run a Caribian LPG with a manual switch, it starts up and runs OK if we keep the revs up,over 1000 rpm, while it warms up. If we turn on the AC it will stall/nearly stall while it is warming up. It seems like when we use 91 unleaded, the fuel has evaporated out of the fuel line so we prefer to start with LPG and switch over to 91 if we need AC while it is warming up. Once she is hot, it starts instantly after a short pause, like a couple of hours. We need to find the Suzuki Parts Dealer, in Korat, Suzuki don't want to know about Caribians though Vitara's are OK.

[cheeryble]

Od carribean 50kmh info, as where would LPG get speed info from in a carb engine vehicle with mecanical speedo, and why not change before 50kmh?

Usually an automatic system changes to LPG when coolant has reached 65C, as thats what temp is needed in vaporator to blend LPG to perfection.

Vitara, basicly no ide, but if you tell what engine, I can check if any LPG durability history is available

Honda 4 valves, few run more than 60k km without issues, non 100k km, in our 60 car (taxis) installations

and Toyotas are not obvios LPG durable, the taxis have a modified 1,6 and new Altis 1,6 comes with 2 different engines. One for gasohol/petrol, one for CNG/LPG/ gasoho/petrol, all taxis use the latter engine

in general a petrol engine with 2 valves (not 4 or 5) is more LPG durable, as it has more head surface to absorbe the increased combustion temp caused by LPG

Thanks Beachbum

That makes good sense about the head area the heat needs to be transferred away I guess.

Important about Toyota too because my gf runs a slightly ageing but very serviceable Corolla 1.3, think it's about 15 years with 240,000 km on the clock and I have suggested now that the conversion prices have come down she uses LPG. She just makes two trips a day half an hour 27km each way so I suggested the manual conversion as she can just turn the switch one time per trip whereas I'm thinking of the automatic as I'm in and out of the car all the time. Manual only 14,000 now and Auto 24,500.

I'll look up my engine but it's the standard Vitara 1.6 petrol injection think the year is 2000 +/- one year. It's in really good nick I've kept the engine up well after a silly mistake, new head, new water pump, rad, mounts etc though still on only 150km. All done by Suzuki. I'd like to keep this car indefinitely if I can reduce my 6000 per month to say 2500 or 3000 with LPG, but don't want to screw it.

Thanks Cheeryble

All done by Suzuki? Which Suzuki workshop, where? We run a Caribian LPG with a manual switch, it starts up and runs OK if we keep the revs up,over 1000 rpm, while it warms up. If we turn on the AC it will stall/nearly stall while it is warming up. It seems like when we use 91 unleaded, the fuel has evaporated out of the fuel line so we prefer to start with LPG and switch over to 91 if we need AC while it is warming up. Once she is hot, it starts instantly after a short pause, like a couple of hours. We need to find the Suzuki Parts Dealer, in Korat, Suzuki don't want to know about Caribians though Vitara's are OK.

No the 14,000 manual and 24,500 automatic LPG job is not from Suzuki it's from the place on the Superhwy towards Carrefour same side. A friend has used them twice and likes them, the guy speaks English too.

I had all my other work from Suzuki on the Doi Saket road on right past Sansai market junction. A proper Suzuki place but a ma and pa outfit at the same time. He, Kh Awirat, speaks English quite well. Reasonable and trustworthy. I actually spent a lot, about 80,000 replacing those bits above and more inc camshaft, and some bodywork. I replaced some things which were OK but would be likely to go in the coming years eg water pump (at 100k km at the time). It's the bits that were expensive especially the head.

I'm glad I got a proper job.