Thai Govt Worried About Locals Destroying Flood Barriers

[webfact]

Flood barriers offlimits

The Nation

Government worried about locals destroying embankments

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is considering to announce some areas offlimits to public in order to protect authorities who are manning embankments erected to save the inner city from being inundated according to Floodmanagement expert Anon Sanitwong na Ayutthaya.

Anon said yesterday Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC) led by Deputy Prime Minister Pracha Promnok has made the statement.

The move has come after Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra commented that the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has met with strong opposition from some locals in their effort to protect the embankments that were put up to prevent flood waters from inundating the inner city.

"At 1am many people came out to oppose the work of BMA officials. They threatened to use force against the officials, who risk losing their lives because they have not been trained to use arms or had any security training. They need protection from concerned agencies because we must protect the embankments to save the inner city from going under water," Sukhumband said.

Local residents of some districts in Bangkok have wanted to dismantle embankments because they believe their houses have been heavily flooded due to the embankments that authorities erected.

Information and Communication Technology Minister Anudit Nakorntap said Klong Papa flood situation has been solved since Saturday. Authorities are going to diverse the water that overflow Klong Papa to other canals.

He added the overall flood situation would improve in the beginning of next month.

Meanwhile, Outspoken Science Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi yesterday urged the government to come clean with the people of Bangkok, as all parts of the capital would be submerged for more than a month.

"If people know the whole truth, their fear will gradually go away and they will instead struggle to live on. So, the government must disclose the real situation," he said.

The head of the National Disaster Warning Centre said the government should immediately provide all the facts without worrying that the truth would cause panic among the public.

People should be warned as early as possible about the flooding of their areas.

The government must clearly provide shelters and their locations should be as close to refugees' homes as possible.

The government should provide public updates every 15 minutes so that people would know where to go to escape flooding.

Traffic cameras could be used to monitor the flood situation and twoway traffic radios to report on the current status.

The public should be alerted clearly on the next area to be flooded.

People were worried because they had not received complete details.

He said he has assessed the situation and believes that all of Bangkok would be inundated for at least one month to oneandahalf months.

Bangkok should learn a lesson from Ayutthaya, as that upstream province has been flooded for weeks and the waters have not subsided yet.

"Ayutthaya has no complications from high tides but Bangkok will also be hit by peak ocean tides," he said.

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration has opened its sluice gates only about halfway because the city wants to manage the flow of floodwaters.

"I think the BMA is worried too much. The sluice gates' capacity could be used much more," he said.

Bangkok's crisis would reach its most critical point this week, he added.

-- The Nation 2011-10-24

[Buchholz]

Flood barriers off limits

Government worried about locals destroying embankments

Alternative Headline:

Flood barriers seemingly not off limits

Government worried about Government MP's destroying embankments

"Pheu Thai MP Keng Karun was responsible for demolition of a 1 kilometre section of clay wall near an intersection where Prapa Canal meets Chaeng Wattana Road, letting in flood water, Pak Kret district chief Wisit Phuangphet alleged yesterday.

Karun allegedly deployed five backhoes to destroy the wall at around 2am yesterday, claiming that it caused a number of villagers' home to be flooded. He initially threatened to destroy the section a few hours earlier but gave up after Deputy Prime Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit and Pheu Thai MP Natthawut Saikua talked him out of it."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Boundary-guarded-as-canal-secured-further-30168279.html

Edited October 24, 2011 by Buchholz

[pkspeaker]

OMG are they serious, even suhumvit road and silom will be flooded for a month! that's hard to beleive!

[pavlik]

OMG. Please, not another revolution.

[hellodolly]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

[rogerdee123]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

you are correct. That's the main reason why the Army wanted the SOE.

[petedk]

"At 1am many people came out to oppose the work of BMA officials. They threatened to use force against the officials, who risk losing their lives because they have not been trained to use arms or had any security training. They need protection from concerned agencies because we must protect the embankments to save the inner city from going under water," Sukhumband said.

It mentioned in Bangkok Post that gunshots were heard. Are we going back to the rule of the mob again?

[rogerdee123]

"At 1am many people came out to oppose the work of BMA officials. They threatened to use force against the officials, who risk losing their lives because they have not been trained to use arms or had any security training. They need protection from concerned agencies because we must protect the embankments to save the inner city from going under water," Sukhumband said.

It mentioned in Bangkok Post that gunshots were heard. Are we going back to the rule of the mob again?

Don't you know that those gunshots came from the Army posing as civilians.

[webfact]

one off-topic post deleted.

[robblok]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

[petedk]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

Yes, I can understand your point and you really have my deepest sympathies. I know several people that have their homes flooded now, in fact we have a family staying with us at the moment as their house is inundated.

Our garden hasn't been as dry as it is today for several weeks while our friend's house is under one meter or more of water. We are waiting for the floods. I'd love to get it over and done with. Let the water flow to the sea as fast as possible.

My point is are we know going to see a new crisis? It seems that many people want to take the law into their own hand instead of letting the "experts" take control.

[pedro01]

You really cant blame people.

There is no public plan in place & announcements from the govt have in the main been totally useless.

If no-one has any confidence that these dykes are going to do any good - why not break them down to solve local flooding?

[MefinCopter]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

Quite agree with you there if locals are going to be flooded out to keep some money in Bangkok dry I think I know what the attitude round here would be and the action

[petedk]

You really cant blame people.

There is no public plan in place & announcements from the govt have in the main been totally useless.

If no-one has any confidence that these dykes are going to do any good - why not break them down to solve local flooding?

I agree with you entirely. We need someone to take complete control and inform the public accordingly but will that happen? Of course not. All the leaders, governors and so on think only of their political careers. In a crisis like this everyone should put aside politics and work together.

I can also imagine the bickering and mudslinging (forgive the pun) there will be when the floods disappear.

[SICHONSTEVE]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

Edited October 24, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[Jawnie]

A State of Emergency would not have been required to stop people from destroying the wall.

A simple, police intervention would have done the trick to stop it.

Not having the SOE is no excuse.

One might rightly ask: where were the police when this was taking place?

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

[hbullinger]

If we have the choice between anarchy and a state of emergency, I would opt for the latter.

[robblok]

You really cant blame people.

There is no public plan in place & announcements from the govt have in the main been totally useless.

If no-one has any confidence that these dykes are going to do any good - why not break them down to solve local flooding?

That is the whole point, a dyke will make flooding somewhere else worse. If they are not there the water will rush down finds the easiest path and go. Dykes are only good if you give the water an alternate route to travel. Here in the village we had dykes (id not prove useful in the end as we are flooded water came up through the drains) but these dykes deflected the flow of water not block it.

Blocking it and letting someone else flood is just wrong. Diverting it around an area and having a clear plan is better. But we all know there are no plans here in Thailand and the rich want to be protected at cost of the poor.

Today an other 5 cm extra in my home. I expect the water to rise for days on end.

The rise will be slower once the water has come. Initially it will go fast and then slow down. Sandbags wont help unless the water can go somewhere.

[robblok]

A State of Emergency would not have been required to stop people from destroying the wall.

A simple, police intervention would have done the trick to stop it.

Not having the SOE is no excuse.

One might rightly ask: where were the police when this was taking place?

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

Try facing down an angry mob with some guns and the result is what happened with the reds. All out war. You can't stop a mob unless your willing to kill. I don't think they are ready for that.

[Bakseedaa]

You really cant blame people.

There is no public plan in place & announcements from the govt have in the main been totally useless.

If no-one has any confidence that these dykes are going to do any good - why not break them down to solve local flooding?

Should Read.............Government worried about local MPs destroying embankments....

[travelmann]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

It could help you and it could then devatsate Bangkok which should be good if you need any hopsital treatment or anyone in the village needs a job later or if you want a total collapse of the economy.

Being underwater I am sure is not good but to flood inner Bangkok will be catastrophic.

[Just1Voice]

I told someone over a week ago that it would not surprise me in the least of people outside of the protected areas of BKK finally get fed up with them being constantly flooded and losing everything, while precious BKK is kept safe and dry, and do something about it, like tearing down flood walls and dykes.

I wish no bad luck on anyone, and it is the poor who live in BKK who would suffer the most from BKK flooding. But maybe, just maybe, if the BKK elite and snobs finally get an idea of what so many other Thai have to deal with on a nearly yearly basis, then something will finally be done to take the necessary steps to correct this situation.

Let's face it, the government, and not just this one, but just about any of them, really don't have a clue as to what to do. Governments for the past 20 years have ignored the warnings from the experts and now it's coming back to haunt them. And in reality, the Army is in no better position to do anything other than restrict movement and protect what's already been put into place.

Until the real experts are brought in - and Thailand has them - and then actually LISTENED TO, and their advice followed, things are not going to change. More than one has basically said, "Open the gates, take down the temporary barriers and Let The Water Flow!" Yes, it will flood BKK for a while, but it will be much less than what it will be if they continue to try and block/divert it, and it will be over with for everyone much quicker.

I've heard people say in the "other" paper things such as: "I don't care about what happens in the provinces, Bangkok must be saved at all costs! Bangkok IS Thailand!". These people really need to come down from their penthouse, or out of their mansion, and get a look at the real world. They fail to realize that without the provinces, without the food and work force that comes from those provinces, Bangkok could not survive. Bangkok is Bangkok, it is NOT Thailand.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Just1Voice

[robblok]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

It could help you and it could then devatsate Bangkok which should be good if you need any hopsital treatment or anyone in the village needs a job later or if you want a total collapse of the economy.

Being underwater I am sure is not good but to flood inner Bangkok will be catastrophic.

There are hospitals too in other places of BKK, jobs too. I am not advocating breaching all dykes. But if parts of inner BKK would have to be flooded to get it over with faster sure why not. (not flooding it for the sake of flooding it) But to end this crisis faster.

Putting sandbags around a hospital so it wont flood is great as long as you give the water other ways too go. But big sandbag dykes around places water has to go to be released in the sea while giving it no viable other ways of escaping is not the way to go.

Just flooding an area is no good.. it should move through the area else just flooding it is crazy.

But breaching dykes so water can flow naturally and faster, yes i think that is viable even if it means some part of inner BKK being flooded. If it helps to shorten this whole mess with a week.. why not.

[falangjim]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

Either you are as dense as a sandbag or English is not be your first language. The tone of what you keep posting sounds vindictive and childish. And just what does your comment:

"Once the water hits your house you (will) think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home." mean????

[robblok]

This has happend everywhere over Thailand and it will happen in BKK too. By building dykes you flood other parts more. So i understand people breaking them down. Same here we have more water because BKK refused to open its floodgates more. So if one of those breaks down it could help me.

Once the water hits your house you think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home.

Either you are as dense as a sandbag or English is not be your first language. The tone of what you keep posting sounds vindictive and childish. And just what does your comment:

"Once the water hits your house you (will) think a lot differently about dykes that make the water enter your home." mean????

People seem to think i want to flood bkk for no reason. I say let parts flood if it speeds up the waterflow. If it helps to shorten this crisis that effects many peopl with a few weeks. Then why not.

I don't want BKK flooded for nothing. Just certain places that block the natural flow of water and make this crisis last longer for all of us.

I have not laid a hand on any sandbags, i would not do it. But its just not logical to block the water without giving it an good alternate equally fast way.

[thaikahuna]

Given that this matter has clearly been part of the nation's problems for decades doing something now is definitely closing the barn door once the horses are out. This matter should have been addressed decades ago but apparently no one saw enough money in it to pursue it.

A state of emergency exists but undeclared so the government is powerless to stop anyone who destroys a flood barrier. Perhaps when the rich suffer the same losses as the poor something might get done.....but I ain't holding my breath.

[Krungbin]

They would not have to worry so much about people destroying dykes and levees and what not if they declared a state of emergency.

The state of emergency is all ready upon them now all they have to do is recognize it declare it and act on it.

Not going to happen big brother dosen't want it.

This IS the crux of the matter - Thaksin losing all he has to gain through a (phantom imaginary coup) has instructed the red shirt MP's to resist the Democrats calls for a state of emergency.

Through not involving the army to maintain civilian unrest and stop things from getting out of hand he has exacerbated the problems. He is nothing but an "agent of despair" for the Thai people if the truth be known but will the people keep on listening to and blindly follow this "self claimed messiah's" every word, of course they will!!! Their blind faith in this corrupt individual beggars belief, and he will continue to hold Thailand back and create misery for the people whilst he remains involved in Thai politics and running the show for his own benefit!!!.

Sad of course, but they only have themselves to blame and are suffering more than need be as a consequence of this foolish belief that he cares about them when he clearly doesn't!!

Another thing, does anyone think he cares about baby Yingluck who is experiencing her "personal hell"?? I for one don't, and cannot feel sorry for her as she was stupid to have listened to her brother by signing up to all of this - with his simple agenda of getting his passport back and smooth the way for his return to Thailand!!! It was doomed for the start - it is like putting someone into a grand prix car who hasn't learned to drive and expect them to compete. She hit the wall on the first corner after taking three other cars out in the process because nobody explained to her what the steering wheel was for!!!:jap:.

Fact: nobody has heard much of Tea S these last days... Would it be that the messiah has - for a change - no magic remedy to propose to "his" people?

[Payboy]

"At 1am many people came out to oppose the work of BMA officials. They threatened to use force against the officials, who risk losing their lives because they have not been trained to use arms or had any security training. They need protection from concerned agencies because we must protect the embankments to save the inner city from going under water," Sukhumband said.

It mentioned in Bangkok Post that gunshots were heard. Are we going back to the rule of the mob again?

Don't you know that those gunshots came from the Army posing as civilians.

Those were not live rounds then.

[DocN]

I told someone over a week ago that it would not surprise me in the least of people outside of the protected areas of BKK finally get fed up with them being constantly flooded and losing everything, while precious BKK is kept safe and dry, and do something about it, like tearing down flood walls and dykes.

I wish no bad luck on anyone, and it is the poor who live in BKK who would suffer the most from BKK flooding. But maybe, just maybe, if the BKK elite and snobs finally get an idea of what so many other Thai have to deal with on a nearly yearly basis, then something will finally be done to take the necessary steps to correct this situation.

Let's face it, the government, and not just this one, but just about any of them, really don't have a clue as to what to do. Governments for the past 20 years have ignored the warnings from the experts and now it's coming back to haunt them. And in reality, the Army is in no better position to do anything other than restrict movement and protect what's already been put into place.

Until the real experts are brought in - and Thailand has them - and then actually LISTENED TO, and their advice followed, things are not going to change. More than one has basically said, "Open the gates, take down the temporary barriers and Let The Water Flow!" Yes, it will flood BKK for a while, but it will be much less than what it will be if they continue to try and block/divert it, and it will be over with for everyone much quicker.

I've heard people say in the "other" paper things such as: "I don't care about what happens in the provinces, Bangkok must be saved at all costs! Bangkok IS Thailand!". These people really need to come down from their penthouse, or out of their mansion, and get a look at the real world. They fail to realize that without the provinces, without the food and work force that comes from those provinces, Bangkok could not survive. Bangkok is Bangkok, it is NOT Thailand.

Dear 1voice

I think I know you from "that other newspaper" and I recall amny very sensible posts there from your side.

This is why I am very surprised to read posts like this from you.

I am all on your side in the analysis of more than the current government making heaps of mistakes (adding to corruptiom, neglecting laws of nature and physics, "mai pen rai" etc), that were leading up to this point.

And NO, Bangkok is not Thailand.

But if I am not mistaken, 25% of the Thai population work here, 40% of the money in all of Thailand is accumulated here (industry, business).

I really have a problem seein, what a capitol, submerged in 1,5 meter of stinking contaminated water for 4 to 6 weeks, will actually gain for Thailand?!

If Bangkok comes to a standstill, it is "back to the stoneage" for Thailand. It will hurt EVERYBODY. The people who are suffering now, will suffer even more, because cleaning up a mess in Ayutthaya may take weeks...imagine devastation on a scale like that in Bangkok.

I am all for "Bangkok has to take one for the team", but tearing down floodwalls and allowing water to freely flow into the city? Submerging it for days or weeks? No way, that should be allowed. t would be a disaster of EPIC proportions and no SOE or Royal decree or whatever would help here.

I feel for eveyone, having lost homes or jobs and I think I have not even the slightest idea, how bad it is "out there"...but adding another few millions to that suffering? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me!

[robblok]

Imagine a sloping area, if its not blocked water will flow down freely and at speed never getting high and moving quickly. Now if you block that slope water will rise on higher parts of the slope causing more trouble there. Also the water will take longer to find its path around the slope giving more trouble to parts higher up the sloping area.

So what i am saying is don't block the flow of water or when you do give it alternatives to move to. This way everyone will be rid of it faster and the water wont be as high in the effected area's. Of course sandbags will have to be placed around hospitals and other important buildings as long as you give the water an alternative place to go to.

This is what i propose, not the who scale flooding of Bangkok out of revenge.

I hope this makes it more clear.