Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[rametindallas]

What part of the word "disaster" do they not understand??

As long as I live I will never understand Thai reluctance, at any level, to openly seek help

You not Thai; you cannot understand Thai way

[bangkokrick]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

That's terrific of the crew of the USS Mustin to provide assistance.

It's a shame that the several hundred-fold increase in assistance possible from the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 was declined.

You are arguing with yourself. I already said many times that the Thais should have accepted US assistance. Yes it is a shame, but not unexpected by the novice PM.

I'm not "arguing," clarifying the scope and potential is my aim.

The real shame is that clone PM declined assistance that could have helped her country tremendously.

.

I totally agree.

[BuckarooBanzai]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

That's terrific of the crew of the USS Mustin to provide assistance.

It's a shame that the several hundred-fold increase in assistance possible from the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 was declined.

.

Correct quote from @KristieKenney

USS Mustain in port now. Sailors very active w communities. Helos flying missions. US Marines here too.

Do not see "over flood areas".

I do see the quote above from the acsbkk but they appear to be quoting Kristie. I wonder what the real story is.

Edited October 25, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[bigbamboo]

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP. "One was saying 'Yes' and one was saying 'No.'"

I wonder which channel of the Thai government said no? I sure hope this fact is revealed.

Is this a trick question?

The governing channel OBVIOUSLY.

"You say yes, I say no

You say stop and I say go, go, go

Oh, no

You say goodbye and I say hello

Hello, hello

I don't know why you say goodbye

I say hello

Hello, hello

I don't know why you say goodbye

I say hello"

Perhaps this song was a prophecy. John Lennon

Though the songwriting credit is Lennon/McCartney, it was written solely by Paul McCartney.(Per Alistair Taylor: assistant to Beatles manager Brian Epstein)

You could try one that was written by John............. Help!

[ElVez]

The fact that I was being more than a tad sarcastic seems to have escaped you!!! I was basing this on the daft logic and paranoia adopted by Thaksin's/red shirts concerns that implementing an "emergency decree" would involve bringing in the army and increasing the chances of a military coup!!!. As if the flooding of a third of Thailand with all the suffering that that brings with it would be the appropriate time to carry out an army coup!!! Think about it!!

Who comes up with that "logic"? More likely a fabrication of the government haters.

Actually a SoE would provide Yingluck with greater powers where they could do what she wants without any "check and balance" system like the parliament, the opposition or independent courts. If she very really deeply up to evil we would have already that SoE, but right now even the military thinks its not necessary.

To decline the help by the US navy seems to be a decision by a Thai Air Force commander. And that decision seems to be from their POV quite reasonable. I could not blame them for doing so. he Thai army is out there and doing their job to fight the flood.

If an other US ship is here on holiday the US help seems to be not desperately needed and will not make the difference between totally doomed without them or everything saved with them as some ex.navy seals (pattaya 00) wants to paint it.

[spacebass]

... it's all pretty disturbing ... can anyone comment on protocols that would warrant a UN intervention to prevent human disaster, without an invitation from the Thai government? ... at what point do Thais need to be protected from the Thais?

... these people seem just too incompetent to care for themselves ... freakishly incompetent

I don't really see the competence at New Orleans ???!!!!

[Tywais]

I do see the quote above from the acsbkk but they appear to be quoting Kristie. I wonder what the real story is.

Some info on Facebook

[Buchholz]

ACSBKK ACS Bangkok RT @kristiekenney: Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain. Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.

That's terrific of the crew of the USS Mustin to provide assistance.

It's a shame that the several hundred-fold increase in assistance possible from the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 was declined.

.

Correct quote from @KristieKenney

USS Mustain in port now. Sailors very active w communities. Helos flying missions. US Marines here too.

Do not see "over flood areas".

I do see the quote above from the acsbkk but they appear to be quoting Kristie. I wonder what the real story is.

It would seem the USS Mustin and it's crew of 380 is in Thailand providing assistance, while the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 with it's 7,500 personnel, million liter a day drinking water capability, multiple dozens of aircraft, and nuclear-power capability of electricity generation, have left.

[ElVez]

Also, those who say that US always want something in return, i remember last year, in Sarnia,Ontario, Canada. There had a massive snowstorm and many people were stuck in their car on the highway. You know what, Canadian and American army were there to help, without asking for anything in exchange. This is not about loosing the face, this is about friendship and we, Canada, do the same when something happen in the US.

It is clear that this government can not handle the situation. Also not good for relations between those 2 countries.

Imagine if the Canadian military had dared to say "thank you for the offer, but we can handle the situation alone." that they have enough manpower and their helicopters are in the air all day on rescue missions. having a foreign speaking pilots in another fleet of helicopters around and providing the logistics for them could make things actually more complicated.

Why is that no good for the relations between those two countries. The Thai army has no issues with the US.

Why the ex navy seals of this forum are a) offended when the Thais decline the offer for help and thinks it's US bashing? and why turning to the worst insults just because someone said they don't need your help and can do it alone?

That are definitely not signs of great friendship.

The reactions the us navy have on this forum is exactly why the relation is going to be affected between those 2 countries. The militaries on the ship must be laughing like hell of the situation and Obama shall be doing the same. Thailand is already beeing bashed all around the world because of the way they handle the situation and it is going to be another argument to bash the new PM.

I am from the french province of Quebec and we can easily deal with american army. Thai army is regulary training with US army so your point in having problems is not good. Thai would have benefit of this aid but seems like the PM prefere seeing people die instead of working for them.

Yingluck thought help by US helicopter would be a good thing. Thai air force commander said we can do that alone and more helicopters in the air by a foreign force could create more problems that it would actually be a help or something the Thai military forces could not do alone.

[newermonkey]

No, I am serious the invoice typically would read as follows: Helicopter time = @ US$11,350. per hour x 50 = US$ 567,500 ---- 300 mud shovels (US army issue) @ US$200 x 300 = US$60,000 --- etc.... etc... the prices the US government charge is outrageous so if the Thai Government and authorities can just about manage on their own its far better than accepting help. its like "with friends like these who need enemies"?

In comparison when the Thai army or navy runs a bell helicopter for one hour the cost is set at around Baht 45,000 (US$ 1,459) See the difference?

Source, please? If this is commonplace then there will be public reporting of it and I would be interested to see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Thailand

Foreign Aid to Thailand On July 31, 2003, Thailand repaid its outstanding obligations under a standby arrangement made with the International Monetary Fund designed to help it recover from the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis. The payment was made four years ahead of schedule, reflecting Thailand's achievement of macroeconomic and balance-of-payments stability.

Since 2002, Thailand is no longer an Economic aid recipient. Instead, Thailand contributed $60 million in economic aid to the neighboring countries in 2005.

During the Vietnam War period Thailand, along with other US allies such as Cambodia, received considerable amounts of US economic aid and military subsidies.^[1]

From the early 1980s onwards internal problems in Myanmar have led to large numbers of people seeking refuge in Thailand. Various agencies, including the European Commission's Humanitarian Aid department, have helped to assist the displaced people.^[2]

Historically Thailand was one of the biggest recipients of Japanese overseas aid. The bulk of the aid took the form of loans for large-scale infrastructure projects.^[3] Japan's government explained its relative generosity by citing friendly relations and Thailand's special problems arising from rapid growth, while some scholars have suggested that Japan’s own business interests were the main motivation.^[3]

[angeledge]

Also, those who say that US always want something in return, i remember last year, in Sarnia,Ontario, Canada. There had a massive snowstorm and many people were stuck in their car on the highway. You know what, Canadian and American army were there to help, without asking for anything in exchange. This is not about loosing the face, this is about friendship and we, Canada, do the same when something happen in the US.

It is clear that this government can not handle the situation. Also not good for relations between those 2 countries.

Imagine if the Canadian military had dared to say "thank you for the offer, but we can handle the situation alone." that they have enough manpower and their helicopters are in the air all day on rescue missions. having a foreign speaking pilots in another fleet of helicopters around and providing the logistics for them could make things actually more complicated.

Why is that no good for the relations between those two countries. The Thai army has no issues with the US.

Why the ex navy seals of this forum are a) offended when the Thais decline the offer for help and thinks it's US bashing? and why turning to the worst insults just because someone said they don't need your help and can do it alone?

That are definitely not signs of great friendship.

The reactions the us navy have on this forum is exactly why the relation is going to be affected between those 2 countries. The militaries on the ship must be laughing like hell of the situation and Obama shall be doing the same. Thailand is already beeing bashed all around the world because of the way they handle the situation and it is going to be another argument to bash the new PM.

I am from the french province of Quebec and we can easily deal with american army. Thai army is regulary training with US army so your point in having problems is not good. Thai would have benefit of this aid but seems like the PM prefere seeing people die instead of working for them.

Yingluck thought help by US helicopter would be a good thing. Thai air force commander said we can do that alone and more helicopters in the air by a foreign force could create more problems that it would actually be a help or something the Thai military forces could not do alone.

Let's hope not another civil die because this is a bad decision.

[techboy]

The Thai people can handle the situation themselves. The don't need international support. There is no problem with the way the people here are dealing with the situation.

Exactly the same as the newly installed traffic lights at the intersection of Bang Waek and Phuttamontonton Sai 2. These traffic lights are working perfectly. Just there are times when they are turned off, times when the traffic is forbidden from turning right or driving straight, times when the right turning traffic is across the path of the traffic driving straight, so that no one can move, times when cars and motorbikes are so self miss managed that I can understand that the policeman is drinking beer on the job.

Sure the Thai don't need help. They would lose face, and that just can't be had.

The Thai Gov't installs traffic lights?

[tlansford]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Yeah..........yippie. Finally someone who hits the nail on the head.

US starts moving 3 battle ships into the Thai Gulf.......offer their help which is declined and then they start to moan that their help is declined.

Please US, stay out of this and solve your own shit first. (Oh and please do not refer to the Marshall plan, that was more than 60 years ago and Europe is still suffering.)

Help should come from UN and Red Cross. US is represented in both organisation and that should do it.

Just so I get it right: HERE we are, facing a crisis in drinking water ( i assume) like never before in the history of Thailand. And THERE is a nuclear powered battle-ship, that can produce hundreds of thousands of liters EVERY <deleted> SINGLE DAY and you send them away , because you don't like them? Nobody asked you to hang out with them on Nana! No one asked you to make a pilgrimage to the harbour every evening and praise them! They offered help and I am afraid, we will need all the help we can get! Soon! So put your sentiments behind you for who-ever-you-pray-to's sake!

So far there is no indication as to who exactly refused USA naval help.

There are 6 pages of assumption here that it was the Prime minister or her team.

Given that she has already invited U.S.relief efforts and previously asked for, and accepted U.S. helicopter support it might be unlikely that it was her personal refusal of help from the U.S. Navy.

So, exactly who turned down this offer of assistance ??

Any ideas ???

The Navy are saying there was one channel of acceptance and one of " no thanks".

Be nice to know who said no and why.

page 7, first reasonable post - good job !

Yours was the first question I asked on reading the article.

There is no question that the Americans have a lot of capacity and willingness to help. On the other hand, what would they have the US navy do as long as they haven't fully exploited the capacity of the Thai navy?

[Buchholz]

I do see the quote above from the acsbkk but they appear to be quoting Kristie. I wonder what the real story is.

Some info on Facebook

Thanks for the link.

5,000 bags of supplies is a positive step.

Good on them for helping out.

[ElVez]

What part of the word "disaster" do they not understand??

As long as I live I will never understand Thai reluctance, at any level, to openly seek help

Yes at is a disaster. The Thai army is out there and fights the battle against the flood.

Having a US navy aircraft carrier around will not prevent the flood from spreading nor do they have superman power and or are the only thing or last option that could save Thailand before everything is doomed.

The turning of billions of liter of salty sea water into drinking water is a nice thing but having a source for drinking water is probably the least problem useless without any logistics to distribute all the drinking water to the places where its needed.

[Jumper]

I think there might be something else going on here that's not being reported. The US Navy has kept ships on standby in an area before. If this was only an issue of confused communication, I don't think they would have pulled the ships out so quickly.

[xavierr]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

Yeah, and now the Indian people are protesting and rioting the extreme corruption in that country, so using India as an example, just further justifies the claim of arrogant and stupid. Secondly, a military is a military. Only out of the goodness of a countries heart would there ever be the reason to employ a fighting military for good samaritan purposes, its not their mission.

There is no favor Thailand can do that would offset the cost of sailing an aircraft carrier to Thai waters and deploying all of its resources to help. And what if there was a hitch, so what, do you think the people who would be drinking clean water, getting medical attention, free relocation to safety by experts instead of Thais who will sit there and laugh when someone crashes on their motorbike? It is arrogant and stupid of people in the Thai gov't and this forum to snub their nose at needed help in the light of poor citizens dying, loosing their homes, their income, their possessions.

Arrogant is: thinking that the Americans are the salt of the earth, that they act out of goodness ans altruistic disinterest and that there is no corruption and no ineptitude in the US. I lived 12 years in India and I respect the country and their people.

Stupid is: believing a military ship is going to solve Thailand's present problems.

I live here in Bangkok among Thai people without any special privilege. As soon as the flood alarm started most of the Europeans and Americans bought all the available water bottles and sundry goods. I guess now they must be sitting in their condos surrounded by water bottles and food. When the foot soldier behaves so selfishly and deplorably, ---and all in full view of the Thai people--- what moral superiority can you claim?

[gl555]

What part of the word "disaster" do they not understand??

As long as I live I will never understand Thai reluctance, at any level, to openly seek help

Yes at is a disaster. The Thai army is out there and fights the battle against the flood.

Having a US navy aircraft carrier around will not prevent the flood from spreading nor do they have superman power and or are the only thing or last option that could save Thailand before everything is doomed.

The turning of billions of liter of salty sea water into drinking water is a nice thing but having a source for drinking water is probably the least problem useless without any logistics to distribute all the drinking water to the places where its needed.

A battle carrier group has resources that can help a lot during a crisis like this. Thailand won't be doomed without their help but how many more lives can be saved if their help is accepted. We're already f&^ked but right now it is to minimise the damage and save as many lives and homes as possible. Rejecting their help was a stupid thing to do, even for this this useless PTP government.

[djlest]

we call it stupidity - the Thais call it THAINESS

Loss of face is so much more valuable to them than loss of life

And it truly shows how much they really think of foreigners - they dont want us to help them because they are superior in all ways, why else would they all want to live here in our beautiful land and chase our beautiful women.

[Buchholz]

The turning of billions of liter of salty sea water into drinking water is a nice thing but having a source for drinking water is probably the least problem useless without any logistics to distribute all the drinking water to the places where its needed.

Problem sorted.

What's the next one?

[ExpatVideographer]

Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Nah, they are on top of things.

I believe that they are on top of things and can do just fine without the help of the West. The last thing Thailand needs is to be indebted to the military industrialist complex that IS America. Besides, do you really want to be overwhelmed with US Navy Sailors this High Season? HELL NO!

Oh yeah... I'll tell you what the last thing the US Navy is, humanitarian; and I know "Anchors Away" and have passed under that tunnel in Great Lakes so don't talk trash to me about the US Military. They are tyrants and selfserving monkies pure and simple. Good, leave; ...good riddance!!!

Edited October 25, 2011 by ExpatVideographer

[gl555]

Arrogant is: thinking that the Americans are the salt of the earth, that they act out of goodness ans altruistic disinterest and that there is no corruption and no ineptitude in the US. I lived 12 years in India and I respect the country and their people.

Stupid is: believing a military ship is going to solve Thailand's present problems.

I live here in Bangkok among Thai people without any special privilege. As soon as the flood alarm started most of the Europeans and Americans bought all the available water bottles and sundry goods. I guess now they must be sitting in their condos surrounded by water bottles and food. When the foot soldier behaves so selfishly and deplorably, ---and all in full view of the Thai people--- what moral superiority can you claim?

You hate the Americans, fine. Do tell us then how rejecting their help is going to help alleviate the suffering. Right now, it's about saving as many lives and homes as possible and doing everything to minimise the suffering of those who have been affected and who will in a few days be affected. I think people like you are short sighted, so what if you dislike the Americans if they're here going to help us?

[Buchholz]

Stupid is: believing a military ship is going to solve Thailand's present problems.

Stupid is: believing a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier task force is unable to provide substantial resources in a multitude of ways to lessen the suffering during Thailand's present problems.

.

[Sailfish1]

You think maybe the Thai government was a little upset that "A fourth ship, the USS Kidd, which was carrying out an exercise with Cambodian forces, also was ordered to join the carrier group near Thailand" ? Aren't Thailand and Cambodia at odds with each other??

[silverhawk_usa]

There were news stories last week, and I will have to summarize from memory, that said the U.S. had about 20 helicopters available at Don Muang. The PM stated they would fall under the supervision of the Thai Air Force Commander.

The U.S. said they would provide up to 85 more if needed and requested in the coming weeks. Not only could they be used for rescue and supply drops, but for heavy lifting to place flood barriers, sand bags, etc.

The Air Force Commander stated that everyone that need rescue or evacuation had already been taken care of. He stated many people were staying in place, and that they could be supplied with trucks and boats, helicopters are not necessary. He also stated that it was too dangerous to fly so many helicopters at the same time. Unbelievable!

I was surprised there was not much reaction to this on T.V. at the time. Now it is a major topic. Soon after there were stories of not enough boats with motors to reach the stranded population.

You are somewhat correct. Originally it was 6 U.S. Marine Blackhawks, with 20 more on standby if needed.

I don't usually screw up figures, but I checked the original source (which can't be quoted here), and I stand corrected. Sorry, I didn't intentionally try to exaggerate, the memory is just 'going'. Thanks for the correction.

[Buchholz]

You think maybe the Thai government was a little upset that "A fourth ship, the USS Kidd, which was carrying out an exercise with Cambodian forces, also was ordered to join the carrier group near Thailand" ? Aren't Thailand and Cambodia at odds with each other??

Grasp at a different straw

[transam]

Amazing how folk here knock the USA, yet they are giving more aid to more countries than anyone, Always there when another country has a problem. Jealousy or envy comes to mind for some. If it wasn't for the USA l wouldn't be here now and a particular religious race would have been wiped out. No l am not one of these folk but my dad survived so l can be here cos of the USA.

Foreign folk, who wanted to help after the Tsunami had problems with naff bureaucracy who had no consideration for their own natives.

[ElVez]

The turning of billions of liter of salty sea water into drinking water is a nice thing but having a source for drinking water is probably the least problem useless without any logistics to distribute all the drinking water to the places where its needed.

Problem sorted.

(photo of helicopter caring goods removed, cause i cannot post links)

What's the next one?

Hello team America. Its not needed.

Who said that the Thailand runs out of sources for drinking water?

The Thai army thinks they can do what necessary and PM Yingluck authorized them to do so.

Its nice the some US sailors help and fill sand bags. But Thailand will not be doomed without that nuclear powered US ship and has its own army that battles with the flood.

So please stop insulting the Thai authorities, the PM and the Thai armed forces. That water swaps trough Thailand with or without any US navy seals on the ground. They cannot do what the Thais could not do too.

[cdnvic]

The ridiculous pro/anti-USA arguments are being deleted as fast as you can type them. Keep your prejudices to yourself and you'll stop wasting everyone's time.

[serenitynow]

I do see the quote above from the acsbkk but they appear to be quoting Kristie. I wonder what the real story is.

Some info on Facebook

Thanks for the link. A site well worth visiting for the comments of Thais alone.