Deluge Can't Cover Up Government's Press Clampdown: Thai Talk

[foolforlove]

Sorry I have to disagree with this poster.

To paraphrase another poster: when the government uses the smokescreen of crisis to change the laws, it must be reported.

I would also add my comment: anyone saying how we must all pull together during this crisis..blah blah blah.

That's not to be trusted! That type of line is just used the world over for scoundrels to extend their time to keep doing bad things. It's just a load of cr**. The time to start doing things the correct way is NOW. On the flip side, the underlying message of such comments is that doing things the "right way" just can't be afforded during a crisis and it's a luxury to entertain such proposals. Hogwash.

Bangkok and Thailand are on the verge of huge devastation and this is what the paper chooses to print? Makes you wonder if having somebody control the press is a good idea if there idea of news at a critical time like this is to inflame politics. Absolutely no reason in the world to run this story now. After the waters recedes then you can inflame politics but at this point it seems like many people are simply using this natural disaster to put politics before Thailand and its people.

I'm all for seeing an end to Thaksin and his family in politics but this is a time when people need to pull together. If things do get very bad I have a feeling many people are going to die that would not have needed to die if politics were not taking front stage right now. I even think the government is scared to deploy the military for fear of a coup and instead are depending on the police who not only are taking care of themselves and their own families now but have nowhere near the capabilities the army does in handling something like this.

Very very sad and as you can see from the comments on Thaivisa and the English newspapers, this is not just a Thai thing.

And just plane wrong to mislead readers to believing this story has anything to do with flooding. Politicians lie, that is what they do best across the globe and if these newspapers had real reporters then we'd be getting facts instead of nonsense and politicians would be less likely to lie so boldly.

[rubl]

It seems like a retrograde step and I sincerely hope it won't happen.

Equally given the source and the long tradition of self censorship, shoddy and lazy journalism, non existent fact checking, metropolitan bias and habit of kowtowing to the prevailing power (yes, I mean the English language press in Thailand) the posture of outrage is rather hard to take seriously.

Retrograde step, hope it won't happen, posture of outrage rather hard to take seriously.

A lesson in how to seem to say something and immediately diminishing it's value and meaning.

Bravo Jayboy, you have a nice way with words

Edited October 27, 2011 by rubl

[drdoom6996]

Please say your not surprised by this?

[BarryM]

Thai people know what is going on

but they do not seem to care

The wool has been pulled over their eyes for so long ... they are immune to it

As long as people vote for who ever gives them the most money ... Thailand will be a banana republic

Thailand is a country where the rich get richer ... and the poor are happy to have rice for dinner

It's not a Republic. It's a Monarchy.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[whybother]

If you want to discuss it, go to this thread: http://www.thaivisa....on-thai-opinion

It's O/T here.

Edited October 27, 2011 by whybother

[rubl]

Deleted, moved to more appropriate topic.

Edited October 27, 2011 by rubl

[serenitynow]

It seems like a retrograde step and I sincerely hope it won't happen.

Equally given the source and the long tradition of self censorship, shoddy and lazy journalism, non existent fact checking, metropolitan bias and habit of kowtowing to the prevailing power (yes, I mean the English language press in Thailand) the posture of outrage is rather hard to take seriously.

Retrograde step, hope it won't happen, posture of outrage rather hard to take seriously.

A lesson in how to seem to say something and immediately diminishing it's value and meaning.

Bravo Jayboy, you have a nice way with words

And you think you're english isn't that good? You pick up nuance and caveats very well Uncle.

Edited October 27, 2011 by serenitynow

[millwall_fan]

Press freedom has been eroded by succesive governments. The last Democrat government cynically closed down Red Shirt TV to try and crush the demonstrations last year and prior to that had ensured that all TV stations were dancing to their tune The press, as Peua Thai say is largely owned by the ruling elite, is Bangkok centric and largely supports the Democrat/Yellow Shirt position. Neither side has a good record on censorship - someone told me that Thailand bans more websites thna any other country apart form Saudi Arabia. I don't know if that's true, but you've only got to use a VPN to find out how many websites the Thais block.

I'm not saying I support press/media controls, but until this country's democracy matures, these kind of tit-for-tat attacks on the media will continue.

Edited October 27, 2011 by metisdead
Font size reset to default forum font size.

[whybother]

Press freedom has been eroded by succesive governments. The last Democrat government cynically closed down Red Shirt TV to try and crush the demonstrations last year and prior to that had ensured that all TV stations were dancing to their tune The press, as Peua Thai say is largely owned by the ruling elite, is Bangkok centric and largely supports the Democrat/Yellow Shirt position. Neither side has a good record on censorship - someone told me that Thailand bans more websites thna any other country apart form Saudi Arabia. I don't know if that's true, but you've only got to use a VPN to find out how many websites the Thais block.

I'm not saying I support press/media controls, but until this country's democracy matures, these kind of tit-for-tat attacks on the media will continue.

Given how much the PTP/Thaksin/red shirts complained about that, why would they need new laws. I thought they would be changing laws to make sure the government couldn't do it.

Also, given the Peoples TV and various red shirt radio stations were shut down because of LM, inciting people to commit crimes, and playing doctored video/audio, and the red shirts screamed blue murder about it, it was a wonder that Chalerm set up "war room" to monitor the internet / media for LM infractions as soon as he got into government.

It seems it's bad when the Democrats do it, but fine if PTP do it.

Edited October 27, 2011 by whybother

[steveromagnino]

Millwall fan -

I don't know any Thai people that believe Thai Raht is pro Democrat/yellow shirt; how do you explain ownership of Bangkok Post; how do you explain that Channel 3 and 7 families are strongly connected to TRT?

Do you believe that media should be entitled to play inflamatory doctored tapes repeatedly during a mob occupation?

Do you agree with Jakapop Penkair's clampdown on Channel 11, calling individual reporters in and firing those who had not supported Thaksin during the coup?

Do you agree with Thaksin's Shin Corp as owners of ITV firing the so called "ITV Rebels" who refused to report positively on the then government in all respects?

The majority of the press, the reality here, is happy to report and be positive about whoever advertises, whoever is in government and whoever is responsible for renewing their license (hence why the channel 3 Maleenonts were part of TRT, and are one of many).

Anyone on the red shirt side who claims otherwise, is talking c&*p. The election was won through superior PR which requires at minimum neutral media coverage - who do you think enabled all the coverage and positive feeling regarding Yingluck in her 5 week run up to the election?

Right now there is not any real sense of optimism and hope in the media that I know regarding freedom; they expect the same or worse than what they have seen in the last few governments, PPP government included. But the majority simply don't really care; they know to report as they are told; laziness, 'gifts', lack of seniority/experience and not knowing what it is like to have free press (since 2003 it's been pretty rough) means the truth is the first victim.

This government, with a mandate to do otherwise, and choosing to make things worse, not better.

The slide began on Thaksin's watch and the Democrats if anything had LESS control of the media, not more. It helps to have loads of money. And scare people. But at a minimum, loads of money and some connections...that's more than enough.

Thai Raht....the voice of the yellow shirts.....seriously, that would be a great soap opera drama which is the exact opposite of reality. Thailand's largest daily, is unashamedly a Thaksin fan.

Edited October 27, 2011 by steveromagnino

[rogerdee123]

10 Day old news of something that is not going to be law until and unless Parliament agrees to it which will not be anytime during this flood crisis.

But good to see the article served its purpose in terms of adding fuel to the fire of making sure to get people emotional about during this crisis.

So you have no problem with the content of this proposed law? Nor its timing (10 days ago 1/3rd of the country was still under water, even though Bangkok was not affected directly at that time)

10 Days ago it could have been considered news as opposed to releasing this story during the peak of panic when the capital and its 15 million inhabitants (largely against the current government) are already under a great deal of stress. Over a week ago the flood was not effecting nowhere near as many people, as well as the country as a whole, and it could have been justified by actually reporting the news when it happened as opposed to waiting for things to become so bad that a 5-day holiday needed to be enacted.

Clearly the newspaper, if it had real reporters, would have reported this more timely and would be spending all its current resources on updating flood conditions and maybe helping saving lives. Beyond editorial and opinion pieces (such as this one) there is little reporting ever done beyond passing along official government statements.

It would seem this article is designed to flame the current political divide during a time of national crisis where a natural disaster is already being used to divide the public.

well it's news to me and I'm glad they are reporting it.

[whybother]

I guess this is on topic

Posted Today, 11:34 by Animatic

<snipped Animatic's poem>

I have no idea what it means and don't remember what thread it's from, so I can't comment on whether it's O/T or not. But your post was clearly O/T ... both times you posted it.

You weren't being stopped from posting what you wanted. You were just being stopped from posting it in that thread.

This forum isn't a free for all. It has rules. One of them is that the mods are always right. Live with that, or post somewhere else.

[metisdead]

Some more off topic posts have been removed as well as a post discussing moderation issues. If you have a problem with moderation issues, feel free to send an email to support[at]thaivisa.com

[animatic]

1319714773[/url]' post='4800072']

1319713663[/url]' post='4800019']

I guess this is on topic

Posted Today, 11:34 by Animatic

<snipped Animatic's poem>

I have no idea what it means and don't remember what thread it's from, so I can't comment on whether it's O/T or not. But your post was clearly O/T ... both times you posted it.

You weren't being stopped from posting what you wanted. You were just being stopped from posting it in that thread.

This forum isn't a free for all. It has rules. One of them is that the mods are always right. Live with that, or post somewhere else.

For the record You've Changed, is classic jazz tune. Sung by Billie Holiday, and Ella Fitzgerald. Written by Bill Carey / Carl Fischer. Apparently my metaphorical usage went over too many heads. It was intended as both ironic and sad in the loss of what was promised to Thais by the PTP / government. And as side bar to some here apparently now intimidated about voicing the truth. Alas a reach to far...

Edited October 27, 2011 by animatic

[elcent]

can someone shed light on the cabinet minister who admitted that he stopped the big dam to release water back in September, which was against the management of the dam. What connections does this person have? Or better who was likely whispering into his ears to do that.

This seem to have been lost even it was allegedly announced on twitter.

[rubl]

can someone shed light on the cabinet minister who admitted that he stopped the big dam to release water back in September, which was against the management of the dam. What connections does this person have? Or better who was likely whispering into his ears to do that.

This seem to have been lost even it was allegedly announced on twitter.

Cannot shed light, but this was in one of the ThaiLive topic one or two days ago:

A Cabinet member blocked the irrigation's plan to release the water from the dam in September."I shall assume the sole responsibility," he said./via@ThanongK

[Throatwobbler]

If passed by Parliament into law, it will give the national police chief the power to censor, close down and threaten the constitutional rights of any newspaper with impunity.

To those not following the plot closely, the current police chief is Thaksin's brother in law. How convenient.

Apparently, you are not following the plot closely, since Mr. Thaksin is divorced. As such, the "police chief" is not his brother in law.

It is uncommon for divorced people to remain "close" to their ex inlaws. Based upon the expert opinion of TVFers, it seems to be the norm to put as much distance as possible between the ex inlaws and the divorced spouse.

In respect to the issue at hand, the Nation with its small following has appointed itself as the official opposition to the democratically elected government of Thailand. Perhaps the Nation is worried that its rabid vociferous opinions that denigrate and insult the government are coming back to bite it on its posterior? If the Nation spent as much time on constructive criticism and unbiased reporting as it does on stirring up animosities, and spewing hatred, it might not be in panic mode?

You seem to be the only person who believes that Thaksin and Potjamn divorced because they hate each other.

But what else can we expect from you.

[animatic]

1319727697[/url]' post='4800537']

can someone shed light on the cabinet minister who admitted that he stopped the big dam to release water back in September, which was against the management of the dam. What connections does this person have? Or better who was likely whispering into his ears to do that.

This seem to have been lost even it was allegedly announced on twitter.

This is the other shoe dropping... Actually more a large boot.

Think, rice pledging crop. Think, paying off election debts. Who had the most to benefit from the rice scheme being ramrodded through so fast. Who had the most to lose if the dams released too much, too early. Follow the money and favors trail. Stinks to high heaven.

Edited October 27, 2011 by animatic

[chmiroau]

Bangkok and Thailand are on the verge of huge devastation and this is what the paper chooses to print? Makes you wonder if having somebody control the press is a good idea if there idea of news at a critical time like this is to inflame politics. Absolutely no reason in the world to run this story now. After the waters recedes then you can inflame politics but at this point it seems like many people are simply using this natural disaster to put politics before Thailand and its people.

I'm all for seeing an end to Thaksin and his family in politics but this is a time when people need to pull together. If things do get very bad I have a feeling many people are going to die that would not have needed to die if politics were not taking front stage right now. I even think the government is scared to deploy the military for fear of a coup and instead are depending on the police who not only are taking care of themselves and their own families now but have nowhere near the capabilities the army does in handling something like this.

Very very sad and as you can see from the comments on Thaivisa and the English newspapers, this is not just a Thai thing.

And just plane wrong to mislead readers to believing this story has anything to do with flooding. Politicians lie, that is what they do best across the globe and if these newspapers had real reporters then we'd be getting facts instead of nonsense and politicians would be less likely to lie so boldly.

Seriously dude, is there something wrong with you? This is the perfect time for any government to make such radical changes to the law. People are so absorbed about the flood that they take their eye off the real ball, every day life. There is no way that any government would make such a move like this on a slow news day, because then it would be front page, and written in red bold letters. Now, due to the floods it is probably buried, so the best way to get the message out there is through the English press.

A massive congratulations to the reporter that wrote this story, keep us up to date so that the Thai people can make decisions on what the country will be like post flood devastation.

[serenitynow]

can someone shed light on the cabinet minister who admitted that he stopped the big dam to release water back in September, which was against the management of the dam. What connections does this person have? Or better who was likely whispering into his ears to do that.

This seem to have been lost even it was allegedly announced on twitter.

This is the other shoe dropping... Actually more a large boot.

Think, rice pledging crop. Think, paying off election debts. Who had the most to benefit from the rice scheme being ramrodded through so fast. Who had the most to lose if the dams released too much, too early. Follow the money and favors trail. Stinks to high heaven.

All will be revealed. Nick Nostitz is on the case.

[landofthefree]

<br />The Press will be supine and then Thailand can be another failed basket country in the future, The PT fake government and leader get very little criticism from the Thai language media here over the handling of the flood crisis , just making sure it continues for all time, At least governments are now saying DONT TRAVEL TO THAILAND EXCEPT FOR ESSENTIAL REASONS<br /> This from UK Foreign office website today,<br /><a href='http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/asia-oceania/thailand' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.fco.gov.u...ceania/thailand</a><br />

<br /><br /><br />

What are they basing their advice on? Flooding in a bit of Thailand.? Its a tropical country just coming out of the rainy season. My advice... no longer need to pack an umbrella (unless you are worried about getting a suntan) because in Bangkok its sunny most days Oh! and there is no water in sight in 90% of it

[TAWP]

This change, as any other laws by any other government to curtail free speech, is a disgrace.

Unsurprisingly the usual suspects come out and defend it. They are authoritarian statists, they were just cheering for another team of authoritarians than was in office during their protest.

Pro-democracy, such a joke.

[ThaiOats]

10 Day old news of something that is not going to be law until and unless Parliament agrees to it which will not be anytime during this flood crisis.

But good to see the article served its purpose in terms of adding fuel to the fire of making sure to get people emotional about during this crisis.

What's your gripe Nisa? That the Nation is printing something else other than the flooding? How about lets do away with the sports section, the business section, the entertainment section and let's all just talk about flooding. I'm glad you see this as a fuel because it deserves the attention, especially when the country is blinded by the crisis. You don't get it do you. This [insert derogatory here] government really should go down in the history books as the lamest, self serving pile of horse manure. Unless the Nitirat group wants to erase embarrassment for Thailand in the future.

There are people NOT flooded right now. Hopefully those will catch on to what this government is doing and spread the news.

I don't see you mention one speck of discontent with this. I'm going to assume you agree with this violation of free press.

Edited October 27, 2011 by ThaiOats

[kimamey]

The Press will be supine and then Thailand can be another failed basket country in the future, The PT fake government and leader get very little criticism from the Thai language media here over the handling of the flood crisis , just making sure it continues for all time, At least governments are now saying DONT TRAVEL TO THAILAND EXCEPT FOR ESSENTIAL REASONS

This from UK Foreign office website today,

http://www.fco.gov.u...ceania/thailand

Actually that's not what it says at all. It relates only to Bankok and the flood affected provinces. Transit through Suvarnabhumi is OK as are flights to other non flooded areas. This is clearly sensible as it would be stupid to visit a flooded area for no reason as they have enough problems as it is. The only other areas where it's not advisable to visit are long standing ones of the southern provinces and the disputed temples.

The original topic is very worrying although I can't comment on your statement about the Thai language media.

[geriatrickid]

If passed by Parliament into law, it will give the national police chief the power to censor, close down and threaten the constitutional rights of any newspaper with impunity.

To those not following the plot closely, the current police chief is Thaksin's brother in law. How convenient.

Apparently, you are not following the plot closely, since Mr. Thaksin is divorced. As such, the "police chief" is not his brother in law.

It is uncommon for divorced people to remain "close" to their ex inlaws. Based upon the expert opinion of TVFers, it seems to be the norm to put as much distance as possible between the ex inlaws and the divorced spouse.

In respect to the issue at hand, the Nation with its small following has appointed itself as the official opposition to the democratically elected government of Thailand. Perhaps the Nation is worried that its rabid vociferous opinions that denigrate and insult the government are coming back to bite it on its posterior? If the Nation spent as much time on constructive criticism and unbiased reporting as it does on stirring up animosities, and spewing hatred, it might not be in panic mode?

Yes, you are really red to the core, and ONLY YOU and your fellow reds believe that Thaksin divorced his wife for any other reason than to escape massive tax evasion penalties, and other stuffs. ONLY YOU and your fellow reds believe that the ex brother in law has been appointed for other reasons that he is the ex brother in law.

Your never ending red sh*t propaganda is really tiring, and serves no purpose.

By the way, I hope that you will react strongly to the fact that some trucks full of food donated by Thai people are marked on the side with a banner saying that this is a gift from Thaksin.... Or will you give us the same explanation that another of your heroes, namely Natthawut ???

Ahh yes, when it doubt label someone. A fellow by the name of Joe McCarthy did the same thing back in the 1950's.

For the record, I am not a Redshirt, nor a Red supporter. I do have some sympathy for the UDD positions. I also find Dr. Weng Tohjirakarn to be an interesting gentleman He is tough, demonstrates sincerity, discipline and integrity.

His medical clinic took care of the destitute. Yes I respect the physician. As the BBC reported; "Back in 1976, Dr Weng Tojirakarn was a young student leader in protests that ended with the military opening fire and killing many of his fellow demonstrators. He fled to the hills" . He is not particularly fond of Mr. Thaksin.

[geriatrickid]

If passed by Parliament into law, it will give the national police chief the power to censor, close down and threaten the constitutional rights of any newspaper with impunity.

To those not following the plot closely, the current police chief is Thaksin's brother in law. How convenient.

Apparently, you are not following the plot closely, since Mr. Thaksin is divorced. As such, the "police chief" is not his brother in law.

It is uncommon for divorced people to remain "close" to their ex inlaws. Based upon the expert opinion of TVFers, it seems to be the norm to put as much distance as possible between the ex inlaws and the divorced spouse.

In respect to the issue at hand, the Nation with its small following has appointed itself as the official opposition to the democratically elected government of Thailand. Perhaps the Nation is worried that its rabid vociferous opinions that denigrate and insult the government are coming back to bite it on its posterior? If the Nation spent as much time on constructive criticism and unbiased reporting as it does on stirring up animosities, and spewing hatred, it might not be in panic mode?

You seem to be the only person who believes that Thaksin and Potjamn divorced because they hate each other.

But what else can we expect from you.

I never said they hated each other. It was an amicable parting of the ways. Apparently, having a mature seperation is difficult for some westerners that had messy divorces to comprehend.

[geriatrickid]

can someone shed light on the cabinet minister who admitted that he stopped the big dam to release water back in September, which was against the management of the dam. What connections does this person have? Or better who was likely whispering into his ears to do that.

This seem to have been lost even it was allegedly announced on twitter.

Twitter? The same reliable news source that announced Justin Bieber was dead.

Next conspiracy theory please.

[whybother]

Apparently, you are not following the plot closely, since Mr. Thaksin is divorced. As such, the "police chief" is not his brother in law.

It is uncommon for divorced people to remain "close" to their ex inlaws. Based upon the expert opinion of TVFers, it seems to be the norm to put as much distance as possible between the ex inlaws and the divorced spouse.

<snip>

You seem to be the only person who believes that Thaksin and Potjamn divorced because they hate each other.

But what else can we expect from you.

I never said they hated each other. It was an amicable parting of the ways. Apparently, having a mature seperation is difficult for some westerners that had messy divorces to comprehend.

You are suggesting that because they are ("amicably") divorced that Thaksin wouldn't do anything to assist Potjaman's family.

I suggest that you are wrong.

[serenitynow]

Apparently, you are not following the plot closely, since Mr. Thaksin is divorced. As such, the "police chief" is not his brother in law.

It is uncommon for divorced people to remain "close" to their ex inlaws. Based upon the expert opinion of TVFers, it seems to be the norm to put as much distance as possible between the ex inlaws and the divorced spouse.

<snip>

You seem to be the only person who believes that Thaksin and Potjamn divorced because they hate each other.

But what else can we expect from you.

I never said they hated each other. It was an amicable parting of the ways. Apparently, having a mature seperation is difficult for some westerners that had messy divorces to comprehend.

You are suggesting that because they are ("amicably") divorced that Thaksin wouldn't do anything to assist Potjaman's family.

I suggest that you are wrong.

Maybe he doesn't rember the Bangkok Post headlines the day after the election stating Potjaman and Yaowapa were assembling their cabinet picks.