Pheu Thai And Red Shirts Do Nothing To Help Their Own

[Moonrakers]

Wow

What cool looking stickers, you can see why they'd want them. They are so gnarly dude.

And it must be so cool to contribute nothing but put downs from behind the keyboard. Way to go, dude...

Do you really feel that anybody would think they look cool? What is so cool about them

They must have had them made themselves as well (not unless they just happened to find a couple laying around). Are we to believe that that they had them conceived, designed, printed and then stuck on the boats because they "look cool"?

Whomever came up with that excuse must think we were born yesterday.

What is cool for Thais is not necessary cool for farang. You are not back home - different fashions in different cultures.

The common mistake of superimposing ones own cultural background on alien cultures that one does not properly understand...

Oh

It's a fashion now, and a cultural thing.

But you know what, all other stickers I see in Thailand that are intended to look 'cool' tend to be clever artistic designs and catchy text. But now, 'cool' and 'fashionable' seems to be plain boring text on a plain boring background. I wonder how many similar designs to the 'only red shirts' sticker I will find in shops selling stickers for cars in Thailand, for example.

It would seem these guys are way ahead in terms of 'fashion' and 'cool' not only to myself, but to other Thai's as well.

[nicknostitz]

Nick, you're drifting away from it. "For red-shirts only" on a manifactured, waterproof sticker is no fun, not even for Thai who may or may not think differently from foreigners. Simply bad taste especially regarding the dire situation lots of Thai are in at this moment.

What counts is what they have, or have not done, while doing relief work.

Have you any reliable report that they refused to help non-Red Shirts?

I did not say "fun" as "sanuk" - i said cool, as the best translation for the Thai word "tae". Go and have a look at the cars of the many volunteer organizations - they are plastered with all sorts of stickers, because it is considered "tae". They spend hours making up stickers, cutting them from foil, and then putting them on their cars and equipment.

This is a very Thai sense of coolness, like it or not.

[nicknostitz]

[

Totally irrelevant, my dear chap. Even Thai know from reading their local newspapers that there is bad blood between red/yellow shirts, government, BMA, thaiflood, etc., etc. Very enlightening that those stickers may still be on the boats, sticky type of glue I guess

For some people here life seem to be only fulfilling when they find faults with others. Especially on the internet.

Why don't you go there and speak with them yourself if you are unhappy that my talk with them did not bring the by you desired result of negativity?

[Moonrakers]

sticky type of glue I guess

I'm guessing very sticky.

So sticky that they won't be able to get them off for a long time. At least they look cool though.

[serenitynow]

you are unhappy that my talk with them did not bring the by you desired result of negativity?

I don't think "negativity" is the word you're looking for there Nick.. Maybe it was "objectivity"?

Edited November 2, 2011 by serenitynow

[ThaiOats]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Thanks Nick for clearing that out. Now can all of you nay-sayers who thought the stickers were Photoshopped or how ludicrous it sounded to put stickers on the boat come up with any other defenses? Monkfish?

They put up the stickers because they "thought it looked cool". Really... I thought a sticker of Astro-boy would've looked cooler than something so blatantly obvious that the message was intended for that very purpose. The intention was there even if they couldn't go through with it.

Actually - no - they never intended to only help red shirts. Please do not interpret your own perceptions into this issue. Again - they were very clear about that point, that they never intended to only help Red Shirts, but all affected people, from the start of their efforts.

You're right I shouldn't have interpret my own perceptions, there should've been another sticker below it saying "we don't really mean it". It was my perception among a lot of people here on TVF and perhaps some Thai people too. But remember, questioning anything regarding Red in Thailand is considered taboo, especially when it may or may not jeopardize your rescue.

Edited November 2, 2011 by ThaiOats

[muchogra]

Nick, do you feel you are empowered? C'mon, everyone has a bit of vanity, whatever it may be. Even people from the developed countries?

[nicknostitz]

You're right I shouldn't have interpret my own perceptions, there should've been another sticker below it saying "we don't really mean it". It was my perception among a lot of people here on TVF and perhaps some Thai people too. But remember, questioning anything regarding Red in Thailand is considered taboo, especially when it may or may not jeopardize your rescue.

Wrong - i went there and questioned them, and got an answer - it was nothing more sinister than thoughtlessness.

Obviously the answer did not please "people here on TVF", as hating Red Shirts seems to be the majority perception here.

[Buchholz]

It was put forth based on your assessment that "Suchinda's crimes were so much greater than Thaksin's".

No one has surpassed Thaksin's human rights crimes, of thousands killed, in living memory. No one has surpassed Thaksin's economic crimes ever.

Allowing protests hardly qualifies as an equalizer of those crimes.

I'm afraid this doesn't make much sense or rather you have completely lost any sense of perspective.I know you have been preoccupied with the demonisation of Thaksin over several years on this forum, but making silly and hyperbolic claims doesn't advance your cause.

Thaksin certainly abused human rights.As I previously noted the main areas where he had a direct responsibility were the drugs war and curbing the free media.

The human rights abuses in the South were committed by the army, and the senior officers concerned were absolved of all charges when Abhisit was PM.Thaksin made some highly offensive remarks after Tak Bai, but that doesn't really amount to a crime against humanity.Of course he was PM at the time and thus can't escape responsibility.But a degree of common sense is needed in allocating blame here.The true criminals from the Thai army got off free, as they always do - though I seem to have missed your expression of dismay when they did.

The drugs war is of course the main area where Thaksin has direct responsibility.I doubt whether my views on the morality involved differ much from yours on this, though perhaps I am more conscious of the sheer misery the drugs business had brought to Thailand.The Thaksinophobes (don't know about you personally) never seem to worry about this aspect.The problem on this issue is that it had near unanimous support from all levels of Thai society.It was never even remotely possible Thaksin would be charged with this, not only because some of his bitterest enemies would be implicated.So yes this was a major human rights crime but one that will never be dealt with.

The repression of the media was certainly a feature under Thaksin, but as various independent observers have pointed out this continued and even was increased under successive governments, notably that of Abhisit.

As to economic crimes, your claim is absurd.The charges against him were relatively trivial and we know from many sources including Wikileaks the authorities were determined to "get" Thaksin whatever the pretext.I'm not suggesting he doesn't have charges to answer including tax issues in the Temasek case.Incidentally it isn't widely known that the most elite banks in the Kingdom supported Shin on this transaction.To suggest these were the greatest economic crimes in Thai history is to betray ignorance.Do some research on Sarit or Kriengsak nearer to our own time.Or think about the Thai generals up to their ears in drugs, prostitution and other crimes.In a word get some perspective.Thaksin's a pain in the neck I agree but he's not the devil incarnate.

Rather than attempt to justify your claim with your old rehashed attempts to spin and exonerate Thaksin of his human rights crimes, perhaps you should try the other angle to it and explain how "Suchinda's crimes were much greather than Thaksin's."

You haven't mentioned him since the initial hyperbolic claim, although you have managed to bring Ahbisit into your posts during both attempts. Instead, let's hear about the higher numbers attributed to Suchinda that surpass Thaksin's thousands.

Thaksin's still pending prosecution on his economic crimes, that are stalled by his fugitive status, involve billions and billions, with a B, of baht. No other PM in history comes close to his total figures.

.

[Moonrakers]

Wrong - i went there and questioned them, and got an answer - it was nothing more sinister than thoughtlessness.

So they thought of the idea

Designed the stickers

Went/emailed to the printers

Explained to the printers what they want

Collected/received them

Paid for them

Stuck them on the boat

Went out in the boat

And not one of the team of 20 people thought: "Maybe that is just a tad inappropriate"?

Perhaps they were just bedazzled by how cool they look, eh?

[Buchholz]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats

Thanks for confirming what was denied with dozens of posts postulating and confabulating about faked photos and photoshopping.

Poor monkfish wasted a lot of time.

*edit to add: Poor forum, as well.

.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Thanks Nick for clearing that out. Now can all of you nay-sayers who thought the stickers were Photoshopped or how ludicrous it sounded to put stickers on the boat come up with any other defenses? Monkfish?

They put up the stickers because they "thought it looked cool". Really... I thought a sticker of Astro-boy would've looked cooler than something so blatantly obvious that the message was intended for that very purpose. The intention was there even if they couldn't go through with it.

Actually - no - they never intended to only help red shirts. Please do not interpret your own perceptions into this issue. Again - they were very clear about that point, that they never intended to only help Red Shirts, but all affected people, from the start of their efforts.

I can see the KKK in America during Katrina with boat stickers saying the equivalent and when confronted, retort, "Naw, shucks... we thought our "WHITES ONLY" boat stickers were just cool looking and, really, we would have helped a black man, too. We just never came across any in New Orleans. Awwww heck, what's everyone getting their dander up fer, anyways?"

.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Nick, you're drifting away from it. "For red-shirts only" on a manufactured, waterproof sticker is no fun, not even for Thai who may or may not think differently from foreigners. Simply bad taste especially regarding the dire situation lots of Thai are in at this moment.

What counts is what they have, or have not done, while doing relief work.

Have you any reliable report that they refused to help non-Red Shirts?

the flood control is getting zany.

It doesn't matter what someone does wrong, as long as do they some thing right.

How many non-Red Shirts didn't seek their help in the first place after viewing the clear message on the cool and fashionable stickers?

.

[tlansford]

A brief summary of my chat with the Red Shirt team of the controversial boat issue. I spoke with Pongpisit "Lek Bandon" Krongsaena, the chief of their community radio station and of the team, and some of his team members who i have known for quite some time.

Basically they are an independent team of the 102.75 "Wittayu Khon Thai Hua Jai Diaow Gan" community radio station. They emphasized that they are not under authority of either the UDD or the government.They have two boats with engines, which they bought themselves for 60 000 Baht each, financed by donations from listeners of the station, and helped out in the flood relief since about three months. They started helping in Phitsanulok, and then most other affected provinces. Their team consists of about 20 people.

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy. In the field their policy is to help anybody regardless of color, they also announce that when they go anywhere, and that during the flood there are no colors as everybody is affected.

They both help people out of their homes, and distribute donations, which they collected through their radio station themselves. Since about one or two weeks they also coordinate with the government, about where they should go.

Their basic aim is to help people, and of course they are proud to do that as Red Shirts. They also said that they already have donations collected to distribute for the cold season in Isarn villages.

They said anybody who would like to find out about them is welcome to visit them and ask questions, as they are working with transparency.

Thanks for the effort to do this.

[ThaiOats]

[

Totally irrelevant, my dear chap. Even Thai know from reading their local newspapers that there is bad blood between red/yellow shirts, government, BMA, thaiflood, etc., etc. Very enlightening that those stickers may still be on the boats, sticky type of glue I guess

For some people here life seem to be only fulfilling when they find faults with others. Especially on the internet.

Why don't you go there and speak with them yourself if you are unhappy that my talk with them did not bring the by you desired result of negativity?

It's unfortunate that your revelation has become a weapon for spewing negativity but had the yellow-shirts done the same, we'd hear it from the other side as well. While I'm thankful that they helped everyone and that they thought the stickers were "tae" but a lot of us don't buy it. For example, if 10 out of 100 people didn't buy their story, then you have 10 people talking bad about the Red-Shirts, and the number increases exponentially.

A race car that has decals of all the sponsors is "tae" while I HIGHLY doubt that a sticker with one sentence containing a clear diversive message is. I think a better excuse would be "in order to show people that we (Red Shirts) help everyone in need, we used the "don't judge a book by it's cover" mentality". That's more benign don't you think?

[tlansford]

Nick, you're drifting away from it. "For red-shirts only" on a manufactured, waterproof sticker is no fun, not even for Thai who may or may not think differently from foreigners. Simply bad taste especially regarding the dire situation lots of Thai are in at this moment.

What counts is what they have, or have not done, while doing relief work.

Have you any reliable report that they refused to help non-Red Shirts?

the flood control is getting zany.

It doesn't matter what someone does wrong, as long as do they some thing right.

How many non-Red Shirts didn't seek their help in the first place after viewing the clear message on the cool and fashionable stickers?

.

stop speculating on BS and get a life.

edit: realize that might sound a bit harsh, but it is stated with sincerity.

Edited November 2, 2011 by tlansford

[Buchholz]

Nick, you're drifting away from it. "For red-shirts only" on a manufactured, waterproof sticker is no fun, not even for Thai who may or may not think differently from foreigners. Simply bad taste especially regarding the dire situation lots of Thai are in at this moment.

What counts is what they have, or have not done, while doing relief work.

Have you any reliable report that they refused to help non-Red Shirts?

the flood control is getting zany.

It doesn't matter what someone does wrong, as long as do they some thing right.

How many non-Red Shirts didn't seek their help in the first place after viewing the clear message on the cool and fashionable stickers?

.

stop speculating on BS and get a life.

While I agree with your assessment that what I was responding to is BS, speculating on it is within the purview of discussion.

Please try and tone down the "get a life" personal attacks.

.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Buchholz

[tlansford]

As I said before "almost looks like a children's prank". Mind you the problem started with the unthoughfullness, asking for misinterpretation. So, sorry to say, but blame those who started this issue with 'cool looking stickers', don't blame those who saw and wondered

Haven't we all be unthoughtful at times?

I have seen much worse in disaster zones. I will never forget an incident during the tsunami where in fact a large western foreign governmental disaster relief organization has only helped their own nationals staying then in a 5 star Hotel that was affected, and have done nothing for the locals, even though they had much needed equipment.

ouch, that hurts.

I had a friend in Germany who organized donations for the tsunami from her circle of friends and colleagues - everybody helped out... from everywhere. And what did I know that my future sister-in-law and husband were in that tsunami (and survived). It still has a strong effect on her even today.

[tlansford]

I'm sure you're right Nick, but tell me, why are the stickers still on the boats then?

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

Nick, just as an aside, what do you suppose the view of the person that displays this sign is?

it would be a closer comparison if it said, "only for Republicans"

[whybother]

...

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

...

A picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes it shows their thinking, without them being able to put their spin on it if confronted.

[koosdeboer]

...

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

...

A picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes it shows their thinking, without them being able to put their spin on it if confronted.

Now I'm convinced that Nick is biased. He is also not realistic in thinking that when he asks people a question that they will give him an honest answer. Red villages, cool stickers and people saying lets burn Bangkok. Just for fun, doesn't mean anything.

[jayboy]

Rather than attempt to justify your claim with your old rehashed attempts to spin and exonerate Thaksin of his human rights crimes, perhaps you should try the other angle to it and explain how "Suchinda's crimes were much greather than Thaksin's."

You haven't mentioned him since the initial hyperbolic claim, although you have managed to bring Ahbisit into your posts during both attempts. Instead, let's hear about the higher numbers attributed to Suchinda that surpass Thaksin's thousands.

Thaksin's still pending prosecution on his economic crimes, that are stalled by his fugitive status, involve billions and billions, with a B, of baht. No other PM in history comes close to his total figures.

I'm sorry but not surprised that you have avoided responding to the issues.

I would have thought my post made it clear that Thaksin cannot be exonerated of human rights abuses.

One proceeds on the basis that members are able to discuss events in a grown up way.Nevertheless you think that it somehow a debating point won that more people were killed in the illegal drugs war than Suchinda murdered on the streets of Bangkok.In that way you might equally argue that Dubya Bush was a greater criminal than the Boston Strangler.Silly internet forum chatter but unrelated to the question of political violence and the murder of protesters.Thaksin on the latter front has a good record:Abhisit has a shocking one.I'm sorry you object to Khun Abhisit's abuses being scrutinised.Don't worry however since I doubt whether they will ever be properly investigated, just as Suchinda after a short time was welcomed back to the bosom of Thailand's unelected elites.

I'm sorry but you haven't made the case on Thaksin's economic crimes apart from more playground talk - "billions and billions" etc.I appreciate business matters may not be your forte but it really is incumbent on you if you wish to comment to satisfy yourself on some basic facts.There is general consensus that the charges against Thaksin were relatively trivial and politically motivated.You actually avoid the most potent charge against Thaksin which was that he changed the operating rules to suit his business interests.I think this was disgraceful and he should be held to account for it

[longway]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Thanks Nick for clearing that out. Now can all of you nay-sayers who thought the stickers were Photoshopped or how ludicrous it sounded to put stickers on the boat come up with any other defenses? Monkfish?

They put up the stickers because they "thought it looked cool". Really... I thought a sticker of Astro-boy would've looked cooler than something so blatantly obvious that the message was intended for that very purpose. The intention was there even if they couldn't go through with it.

Actually - no - they never intended to only help red shirts. Please do not interpret your own perceptions into this issue. Again - they were very clear about that point, that they never intended to only help Red Shirts, but all affected people, from the start of their efforts.

Did you ask where they got the stickers from?

Surely what would be 'cooler' would be to out a sticker saying red shirts help everyone. What is 'cool' about it? It's obnoxious.

[Buchholz]

Rather than attempt to justify your claim with your old rehashed attempts to spin and exonerate Thaksin of his human rights crimes, perhaps you should try the other angle to it and explain how "Suchinda's crimes were much greather than Thaksin's."

You haven't mentioned him since the initial hyperbolic claim, although you have managed to bring Ahbisit into your posts during both attempts. Instead, let's hear about the higher numbers attributed to Suchinda that surpass Thaksin's thousands.

Thaksin's still pending prosecution on his economic crimes, that are stalled by his fugitive status, involve billions and billions, with a B, of baht. No other PM in history comes close to his total figures.

I'm sorry but not surprised that you have avoided responding to the issues.

I would have thought my post made it clear that Thaksin cannot be exonerated of human rights abuses.

One proceeds on the basis that members are able to discuss events in a grown up way.Nevertheless you think that it somehow a debating point won that more people were killed in the illegal drugs war than Suchinda murdered on the streets of Bangkok.In that way you might equally argue that Dubya Bush was a greater criminal than the Boston Strangler.Silly internet forum chatter but unrelated to the question of political violence and the murder of protesters.Thaksin on the latter front has a good record:Abhisit has a shocking one.I'm sorry you object to Khun Abhisit's abuses being scrutinised.Don't worry however since I doubt whether they will ever be properly investigated, just as Suchinda after a short time was welcomed back to the bosom of Thailand's unelected elites.

I'm sorry but you haven't made the case on Thaksin's economic crimes apart from more playground talk - "billions and billions" etc.I appreciate business matters may not be your forte but it really is incumbent on you if you wish to comment to satisfy yourself on some basic facts.There is general consensus that the charges against Thaksin were relatively trivial and politically motivated.You actually avoid the most potent charge against Thaksin which was that he changed the operating rules to suit his business interests.I think this was disgraceful and he should be held to account for it

Speaking of avoiding issues, you skip entirely justifying your original claim, which you understandably snipped to avoid addressing, that "Suchinda's crimes were much greather than Thaksin's."

Rather you'd rather attempt to inject Bush into the discussion followed by the seemingly requisite personal bashing and derogatory language with other posters coupled with the accusation that someone is avoiding discussing your off-the-subject-matter replies.

Nevermind.

[jayboy]

Speaking of avoiding issues, you skip entirely justifying your original claim, which you understandably snipped to avoid addressing, that "Suchinda's crimes were much greather than Thaksin's."

Probably makes sense to read responses more carefully since your original point was directly addressed.If you don't understand why I made the Bush/Boston strangler comparison I'm not sure I can explain it more simply.

The intention, far from trying to avoid it, was precisely to show Suchinda stands in a different (and higher) league of wickedness.Most people, apart from those whose dislike of Thaksin have warped their judgement, wouldn't even think this a matter for dispute.You do so there's really no point in discussing further.

Edited November 3, 2011 by soundman
Quote tags.

[ThaiOats]

You're right I shouldn't have interpret my own perceptions, there should've been another sticker below it saying "we don't really mean it". It was my perception among a lot of people here on TVF and perhaps some Thai people too. But remember, questioning anything regarding Red in Thailand is considered taboo, especially when it may or may not jeopardize your rescue.

Wrong - i went there and questioned them, and got an answer - it was nothing more sinister than thoughtlessness.

Obviously the answer did not please "people here on TVF", as hating Red Shirts seems to be the majority perception here.

I've already told you it's taboo amongst Thai people. I'm sure you're well aware that farangs are considered outsiders by most Thai people especially where the rural areas are concerned. You're just another tool to be used in their propaganda spin machine, if anything farangs are probably easier to fool than other Thais when it comes to their mindset. Why do you think it's so easy to rip tourists off? Thai people know how to think like Thai people, if you think you know a Thai person very well, think again. My relatives once told me, if you run a business here in Thailand like you did in America, you're going to fail. You need to be quick and witty, gullibility will be the end of you. Trust me when I said us Thais don't openly bring up the subject about Red shirts unless we're certain none are around, gossip spreads really fast and it's part of fear.

Allow me to briefly bring up a comparison, a racist one even. Why are people often afraid to walk through a black neighborhood in America? Statistics show that a lot of crimes happen in those areas. I'm not saying ALL black people are dangerous and I'm not saying ALL of their neighborhoods are. It's this presumption we get by looking at the statistics based on past events, that we come to an assumption that black neighborhoods are usually dangerous. Just how a lot of people assume that middle easterners are terrorists or priests are child molesters. It's the negativity that has been built up for whatever group they belong to that people (however few or many) make these assumptions.

In relation to the Red shirts and Yellow Shirts, I would slightly compare them to the Bloods and Crips of the Americas. Wearing one particular could have a lot of things assumed about you, whether you like it or not. Whatever assumptions people have about the Red shirts, be prepared to carry the image that comes with the color. This is why I personally hate the idea of Red/Yellow shirts, even if the norm is not to conspicuously wear the colors. Again, the area in which you live in also affects the degree of presumptions, less in Bangkok and more in Udon Thani.

I applaud you Nick for taking such interest in Thailand and it's Red Shirt movement. I know that you know a lot more about them than I do but from where I'm sitting, it's a huge mess. People exploit the movement for their own benefit, hoping to gain more favor from the now government and "voicing" their opinion as a whole however ridiculous it may sound. If morality and sound reasoning does not apply to you, then the idea of "majority wins" can be applied. Meaning, if the majority thinks it's okay for corruption as long as they get something back or something unrealistic like a new 1500cc truck for all farmers. When I say "you" I meant, people in general, not you specifically Nick. The movement IMHO exploded too fast without a clear message other than to support Thaksin. It's leaders are just spouting nonsense and propaganda in their speeches without a real intellectual discussion of how to represent themselves. They're tired of the amart and elites? Be clear to give characteristics of their opponents because right now people make the assumption that "elites" are rich people.. when the very people they support are in fact elites. What else is on their plate?

[nicknostitz]

Now I'm convinced that Nick is biased. He is also not realistic in thinking that when he asks people a question that they will give him an honest answer. Red villages, cool stickers and people saying lets burn Bangkok. Just for fun, doesn't mean anything.

I gave you a brief summary of an interview.

I have posted what they said.

Lacking reports of them having refused to help non-Red Shirts, i will not speculate that they lied solely based on this sticker as this would not just be highly biased but also libelous.

And thank you, i have learned just a lesson here, digesting most of the comments i have to read here i understand now why rags such as The Sun are so successful: spew hatred, and people will love to read it, and the occasional libel conviction will not make a dent in your balance.

Very interesting.

[serenitynow]

I'm sure you're right Nick, but tell me, why are the stickers still on the boats then?

The problem i see here is that some people made these photos, and did either not bother to get their view on this, or even worse, did not want to bother either, as they had an opportunity to score some political points.

Nick, just as an aside, what do you suppose the view of the person that displays this sign is?

it would be a closer comparison if it said, "only for Republicans"

I wasn't seeking to make a comparison. I was trying to get a handle on Nick's cognitive ability and objectivity. If he ran true to form he'd say that the white's only sign is only "cool"and to actually know what the intent of the whites only sign is you need to go talk to the guy who puit it up. Nick wisely chose not to respond to that post because there is no defense that anyone with two braincells would buy. You've run off in another direction all together, which tells me that you're just a political hack and you also wrongly think this conflict is political. Two things it is about is culture and naked power. One thing it isn't about is politics.

[janverbeem]

Regarding the controversial sticker issue, they said that they had them from the beginning on their boats, mostly because they thought it looked cool, and didn't really think much about it, especially that this could become such a controversy.

Guess this says everything about the red shirts and their followers in one line.

We protested for months because we tought it looked cool.

We burned down Bangkok and other city's because we tought it looked cool.

We keep protesting just because we think it looks cool.

We support a criminal fugitive because we think it looks cool.

[Buchholz]

Lacking reports of them having refused to help non-Red Shirts

Why would you expect that any non-Red Shirt that read the sign saying For Red Shirts Only to seek help from them in the first place? Nevermind, complaining about being refused.

The aforementioned For Whites Only signs were in place for years and years and uniformly complied with by those the signs targeted. It took a long time before black Americans finally started to rebel against the signs and refuse to comply with the the message.

I expect we won't be hearing reports of non-Red Shirts being refused help, because likely most wouldn't seek help from the boats from the git go.

That hesitancy would be entirely understandable given ThaiOats very well written explanation as to why so many Thais are justifiably apprehensive of the Red Shirts.

.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Buchholz