Landlords Gouging Flood Victims With High Rents: Thailand

[arrowsdawdle]

Sounds like high season at any hotel.

Actually, hotels publish their rates for 1 NOV through 31 OCT annually in order to allow tour operators and event planners to schedule and book accordingly and any seasonal reflections are shown in their annual rate schedules. What most of the unscrupulous ones do is discount a Thai price for Thai bookings, which works against them if they are trying to develop international trade. So, always have a Thai make the booking whether by phone or front desk and tell the Thai what the published rate is and to negotiate a 20-30% discount if possible. Of course, many Thais, and that includes Thai wives, would rather see the hotel get what they want than side with you against them because first and foremost, the primary allegiance is Thai.

[arrowsdawdle]

These laws preventing increasing in prices are ridiculous. A first years economic course indicates that the most goods reach consumers if price is set based on supply and demand.

Firstly, price capping encourages hoarding by the first people to get the goods rather than the people who are willing to pay the more. As an example, a consumer may buy 10 bottles of water if they each cost 30 baht but that consumer would only buy 2 bottles if each bottle cost 30 baht. With the lower price you get fewer consumers buy more water than more consumers buying a few waters.

Secondly, the supply chain is also competitive and a store is competing against other stores for a finite number of goods. A store that can pay more money for goods will generally be able to buy more. If there is a shortage in the supply chain suppliers will generally increase prices. If that store cannot pass the increased costs of purchasing goods onto consumers they won't be able to order as much, and that means hat the stores will have no goods rather than expensive goods.

In regards to rent, price capping encourages people who don't need to stay somewhere safe to move to an apartment rather than someone who is willing to pay more because they really need to because they have been evacuated.

The final spin on all these scenarios is that you can get the consumers reselling the goods/property they got from businesses at a cheaper price. This means that using the scenario above, the business owner that bought water in a competitive market, and chose to keep their water bottles at 10 baht, may make less profit than the consumer who bought ten of them.

You must be a teacher in the Thai school system (or a student from it.)

[gjoo888]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

Its people like you that are making this situation so bad. And if you are a westerner then its DEFINITELY people like you that make the rest of us look bad.

Why could you not just do the same price and take a larger deposit???

People are in hard times here.

I would love to have encountered you on my travels to find a condo after my house flooded>

People like this should have their property confiscated by the Thai government and shouldn't be able for the next 20 years to obtain any other property. Scum of the Earth.

Scum of the earth? Why are you being so generous in your description of these people? Scum of Hell would be more appropriate.

[jaywalker]

It is surprising people just don't recycle the plastic bottles they use and fill them up at the Iso water machines. I have yet to buy one bottle of water in this crisis we keep 60L worth of storage 6LX10 plus another 15 in 1.5L bottles. I keep the 6L's filled constantly cost me 4 Baht(4 x 1.5L). To all those people raising their prices what do you expect? They have a lot more to lose. Its cruel but they pull this kind of stuff on us everyday. The flip side of this is the huge number of people helping. I have been helping at the stadium in Bang Kapi and it is amazing how many people are bringing in 10,000's of baht worth of food,water,medicine. Businesses are incurring a lot of extra costs I am sure those brick walls don't come cheap and they serve no other purpose other than flood protection. They are a preventative expense and hence no financial gain only financial asset protection.

Hope you have a work permit to volunteer to help.

[monkfish]

I once rented a Condo for 2 months whilst my house was being renovated.

Cost THB30,000 per month for short term rent as opposed to 12k per month for long term but anyway it still worked out cheaper than a Hotel.

So anyway it is standard practice to charge more for short term and not just because of the flooding.

Edited October 29, 2011 by monkfish

[Markaew]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

Pretty strange post.......

Why is that strange?

[farang000999]

These laws preventing increasing in prices are ridiculous. A first years economic course indicates that the most goods reach consumers if price is set based on supply and demand.

Firstly, price capping encourages hoarding by the first people to get the goods rather than the people who are willing to pay the more. As an example, a consumer may buy 10 bottles of water if they each cost 10 baht but that consumer would only buy 2 bottles if each bottle cost 30 baht. With the lower price you get fewer consumers buy more water than more consumers buying a few waters.

Secondly, the supply chain is also competitive and a store is competing against other stores for a finite number of goods. A store that can pay more money for goods will generally be able to buy more. If there is a shortage in the supply chain suppliers will generally increase prices. If that store cannot pass the increased costs of purchasing goods onto consumers they won't be able to order as much, and that means hat the stores will have no goods rather than expensive goods.

In regards to rent, price capping encourages people who don't need to stay somewhere safe to move to an apartment rather than someone who is willing to pay more because they really need to because they have been evacuated.

The final spin on all these scenarios is that you can get the consumers reselling the goods/property they got from businesses at a cheaper price. This means that using the scenario above, the business owner that bought water in a competitive market, and chose to keep their water bottles at 10 baht, may make less profit than the consumer who bought ten of them.

You must be a teacher in the Thai school system (or a student from it.)

Everything he said was accurate. Perhaps you should refute his logic in an actual argument.

[Markaew]

This has nothing to do with eggs, rice or higher fees due to gasoline pirce increase.

This is not about business and making money. The people are in tough times, hotels at the moment are dropping their prices by upto adn over 70% for flood affected people.

Its so simple to just ask for a higher deposit and get their I.D so that you have record of their whereabouts if they do pi** off.

If cards were in the other hands I wonder what the ones overpricing would be saying?

You are physically in Thailand and mentally in your home country. Have you not learned any lessons here? If you are a farang you are always wrong. Money out of hand is lost with no recourse. Damages done without cash deposit to cover is lost. Are you going to the local BiB to solve your problem. I think not. Are you going to get a lawyer to resolve your problem as the BiB will suggest? I think not. The expenses outweigh the losses. Wake up!

[Markaew]

Thai people mercilessly exploit each other when caught in need, but we - foreigners- should' donate' for the flood victims???....

Sounds like high season at any hotel.

PERFECT question/statement

[Markaew]

I could probably match you story-for-story, but I don't have the time. I know of scores of (especially recent Thai university graduates just launching out on their own) who cannot get their money back from deposits. Mostly unscrupulous landlords prey on those who don't have the weight to throw around in a legal/financial dispute. You, as a farang, probably fare much better than the average Thai.

A farang faring better than a thai, any thai, is absolutely not true.

[scotinsiam]

It should say some people are gouging! We are open and free to all affected at our Inn for as long as it takes in Pattaya! All rooms are 2 room suites and comes with 15 new Thai friends. New Slogan: Pattaya City of Angels ( We have been full since yesterday.) They were falanged in a good way!

Good for you, where is your place I will happily drop in and buy a few drinks. I am sure you will build goodwill with your actions and make some new friends. superb

[scotinsiam]

It is surprising people just don't recycle the plastic bottles they use and fill them up at the Iso water machines. I have yet to buy one bottle of water in this crisis we keep 60L worth of storage 6LX10 plus another 15 in 1.5L bottles. I keep the 6L's filled constantly cost me 4 Baht(4 x 1.5L). To all those people raising their prices what do you expect? They have a lot more to lose. Its cruel but they pull this kind of stuff on us everyday. The flip side of this is the huge number of people helping. I have been helping at the stadium in Bang Kapi and it is amazing how many people are bringing in 10,000's of baht worth of food,water,medicine. Businesses are incurring a lot of extra costs I am sure those brick walls don't come cheap and they serve no other purpose other than flood protection. They are a preventative expense and hence no financial gain only financial asset protection.

Well done, I think you are correct and I have seen it myself in times of crisis here in Thailand, I think the vast majority of people are decent and help each other more during problems. I have been sponsoring 2 children at an Orphanage for years and I am amazed by the generosity of people who contribute to the upkeep of the place. The amount of times I have seen normal Thai people arrive and give food / gifts and time to the kids is heart warming. Farangs are also involved and donate time / money and food also - there are decent people everywhere don't let a few people cloud the big picture.

[challenger99]

It shall be the duty of Landlords to have an insurance as in other coutnries but a typical way of thinking by Thai's .... also less tourists increase price for hotel, food etc. to get same turnover and sure they will fail ....!!!

Edited October 29, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset, use default forum font when posting.

[MAJIC]

i think they call this supply and demand.

Considering the difficulties of moving,under the present conditions,I would say more like Blackmail!

[spacebass]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

Its people like you that are making this situation so bad. And if you are a westerner then its DEFINITELY people like you that make the rest of us look bad.

Why could you not just do the same price and take a larger deposit???

People are in hard times here.

I would love to have encountered you on my travels to find a condo after my house flooded>

What a ridiculous statement no Thai or Thailandlord going to do any Farang a favour, original poster is spot on :jap:

[TAWP]

i think they call this supply and demand.

Considering the difficulties of moving,under the present conditions,I would say more like Blackmail!

It is not about people that have contracts but people that try to relocate and walk in and expect a rate they have heard somewhere, most likely asking neighbors about their rate [set on early hire] and expecting the same. For 1 month contract. And no deposit.

[animatic]

i think they call this supply and demand.

Calling taking unscrupulous advantage of people's needs, when they are desperate, "supply and demand", is one way to justify cold hearted greed.

Exactly.

Nobody said short term rents shouldn't be more expensive.

They are complaining that prices were raised sharply now, when people are losing their homes and need a place to stay.

The (stupid) American way calls it supply and demand.

Normal people call it taking advantage of desperate people.

Not difficult to understand I think...

Just for the record Economists call it Supply and Demand in English.

Not all economists are American, no matter what you imagine.

Supply and Demand is understood as a concept in all nations.

But apparently not any better here than the concept of Democracy...

Supply and Demand is used as a concept in 100's of languages.

Supply and Demand is not American short hand for gouging people in emergency situations.

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

So try and hold your anti-American bile in check.... and blame ALL economists for the ills of the world or simply providing a phrase that some OTHERS use to justify their cruelty to others. This is not economic short hand for rip of your country man.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A brief history of Supply And Demand origins.

http://en.citizendiu...Alfred_Marshall

" Alfred Marshall (1842-1924) was the most influential economic theorist in the English speaking world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and his approach to microeconomics remains influential.

Marshall was born in Clapham, England, July 26, 1842. His father was a bank cashier and a devout Evangelical. He studied mathematics at St. John's College, Cambridge University and quietly became an agnostic. Marshall experienced a mental crisis that led him to abandon physics and switch to philosophy

Marshall's chief work, Principles of Economics (1890) established his reputation.

Its main technical contribution was a masterful analysis of the issues of elasticity, consumer surplus, increasing and diminishing returns, short and long terms, and marginal utility; many of the ideas were original with Marshall, others were improved version of ideas by W. S. Jevons and others.

In a broader sense Marshall hoped to reconcile the classical and modern theories of value.

He pointed out that, in the short run, supply cannot be changed and market value depends mainly on demand.

Marshall took a broad approach to social science in which economics plays an important but limited role. He recognized that in the real world, economic life is tightly bound up with ethical, social and political currents--currents he felt economists should not ignore. Marshall envisioned dramatic social change involving the elimination of poverty and a sharp reduction of inequality. He saw the duty of economics was to improve material conditions, but such improvement would occur, Marshall believed, only in connection with social and political forces. His interest in liberalism, socialism, trade unions, women's education, poverty and progress reflect the influence of his early social philosophy to his later activities and writings. "

As one can see he is

a ) not American,

b ) quite open to improving the lot of the poor.

The opposite of gouging people in need.

We really don't need any more bashing based on errors in research.

Americans are trying to HELP Thais, no point in slapping their face mistakenly.

Edited October 29, 2011 by animatic

[metisdead]

Insults and baiting posts have been removed.

[GentlemanJim]

Animatic

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

Just for the purpose of improving your Geography, I think you will find there are only two states bigger than Thailand, namely Alaska and Texas, though I am open to correction.

[wintermute]

Animatic

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

Just for the purpose of improving your Geography, I think you will find there are only two states bigger than Thailand, namely Alaska and Texas, though I am open to correction.

I think California is larger too.

[metisdead]

Another insulting post (of many) has been removed. Stop with the insults and keep it civil.

[GentlemanJim]

Animatic

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

Just for the purpose of improving your Geography, I think you will find there are only two states bigger than Thailand, namely Alaska and Texas, though I am open to correction.

I think California is larger too.

Nope

[MaxYakov]

i think they call this supply and demand.

I think its pretty unfair to change the rent price at a time like this for EXISTING lease contracts.

Lets face the truth here, this is a dog eat dog society and money is god, thought before this it was only farangs that were fair game to be ripped off, here in Hua Hin the merchants are just the same bottled water has gone up 35% as the stores run out, eggs have doubled in price in the local market today 60 baht for ten last week 30 baht and so it goes in the miracle land of smiles.

Did you think to ask the merchant how much his cost for eggs has increased?

Do you think that the egg supply chain is at normalcy when 1/3 of the country is under water?

Have you ever run a business?

[GentlemanJim]

i think they call this supply and demand.

I think its pretty unfair to change the rent price at a time like this for EXISTING lease contracts.

Lets face the truth here, this is a dog eat dog society and money is god, thought before this it was only farangs that were fair game to be ripped off, here in Hua Hin the merchants are just the same bottled water has gone up 35% as the stores run out, eggs have doubled in price in the local market today 60 baht for ten last week 30 baht and so it goes in the miracle land of smiles.

Did you think to ask the merchant how much his cost for eggs has increased?

Do you think that the egg supply chain is at normalcy when 1/3 of the country is under water?

Have you ever run a business?

MaxYakov

You are highlighting an issue that many people on here don't seem to get. They simply do not understand what is going on in terms of the supply chain. We are short of rice down here, and earlier I mentioned going to Malaysia to get it, well it turns out one of the local shop keepers did just that. He drove for 4 hours there (5 hours back), filled a truck with 45Kg bags of rice, paid import duty on it at the border then has brought it all back. the result is a 45kg bag of rice normally costing about 1400 baht is now selling for 2000 baht. Is he making a killing on it...absolutely not. His costs are covered and he is making 10% more for his troubles and time taken. A very fair business orientated deal. Those that needed it were grateful to him for his travels and understood the difference in price.

[Heng]

Are the apartment/ condo owners happen to be Thai - Chinese?

Likely since we control most of the economy. That's like asking if the flood waters are wet or not.

That said, a lot of flood 'victims' are driving up the prices themselves.

"Is this condo/house/building/etc. still available?"

"Sorry, we leased that out more than a year ago..."

"We'll pay Xk more per month...."

"Well, we can't do that because AGAIN, it's leased out under contract to someone else...."

You'll also see this in the local markets, folks who can afford to hoard goods are also driving up prices.... "I'll pay 240 Baht per pack of eggs if you'll give me 10 packs..." It's a mixed bag of vendors who go with the flow, sell high and go home early and those who insist on trying to spread his/her products around to as many consumers as possible.

[animatic]

Animatic

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

Just for the purpose of improving your Geography, I think you will find there are only two states bigger than Thailand, namely Alaska and Texas, though I am open to correction.

I think California is larger too.

Nope

Alaska 663,267 sq mi 1,717,854 sq km

Texas 268,580 sq mi 695,621 sq km

Thailand 198,117 sq mi 513,120 sq km

California 163,695 sq mi 423,970 sq km

France is 260,558 sq mi 674,843 sq km

And that REALLY wasn't the point was it? No.

Topic not geography pedantics, but gouging during a disaster.

Edited October 29, 2011 by animatic

[weescotsguy66]

GentleMan Jim

You are highlighting an issue that many people on here don't seem to get. They simply do not understand what is going on in terms of the supply chain. We are short of rice down here, and earlier I mentioned going to Malaysia to get it, well it turns out one of the local shop keepers did just that. He drove for 4 hours there (5 hours back), filled a truck with 45Kg bags of rice, paid import duty on it at the border then has brought it all back. the result is a 45kg bag of rice normally costing about 1400 baht is now selling for 2000 baht. Is he making a killing on it...absolutely not. His costs are covered and he is making 10% more for his troubles and time taken. A very fair business orientated deal. Those that needed it were grateful to him for his travels and understood the difference in price.

I would have thought the Thai Border Guards would cancel the import duty in this time of need!!!

Edited October 29, 2011 by weescotsguy66

[weescotsguy66]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

Can you clarify for me are you saying the the person is going to pay the monthly 3 month or are they going to pay 3 months for 1 months.

If it is the former then that is understandable if it is the latter you have fairly got all the criticism in the previous posts.

[GentlemanJim]

GentleMan Jim

You are highlighting an issue that many people on here don't seem to get. They simply do not understand what is going on in terms of the supply chain. We are short of rice down here, and earlier I mentioned going to Malaysia to get it, well it turns out one of the local shop keepers did just that. He drove for 4 hours there (5 hours back), filled a truck with 45Kg bags of rice, paid import duty on it at the border then has brought it all back. the result is a 45kg bag of rice normally costing about 1400 baht is now selling for 2000 baht. Is he making a killing on it...absolutely not. His costs are covered and he is making 10% more for his troubles and time taken. A very fair business orientated deal. Those that needed it were grateful to him for his travels and understood the difference in price.

I would have thought the Thai Border Guards would cancel the import duty in this time of need!!!

That would have been nice, but no they didn't.

[animatic]

farang000999 timestamp='1319852328' post='4804097'

i think they call this supply and demand.

I think its pretty unfair to change the rent price at a time like this for EXISTING lease contracts.

Lets face the truth here, this is a dog eat dog society and money is god, thought before this it was only farangs that were fair game to be ripped off, here in Hua Hin the merchants are just the same bottled water has gone up 35% as the stores run out, eggs have doubled in price in the local market today 60 baht for ten last week 30 baht and so it goes in the miracle land of smiles.

Did you think to ask the merchant how much his cost for eggs has increased?

Do you think that the egg supply chain is at normalcy when 1/3 of the country is under water?

Have you ever run a business?

MaxYakov

You are highlighting an issue that many people on here don't seem to get. They simply do not understand what is going on in terms of the supply chain. We are short of rice down here, and earlier I mentioned going to Malaysia to get it, well it turns out one of the local shop keepers did just that. He drove for 4 hours there (5 hours back), filled a truck with 45Kg bags of rice, paid import duty on it at the border then has brought it all back. the result is a 45kg bag of rice normally costing about 1400 baht is now selling for 2000 baht. Is he making a killing on it...absolutely not. His costs are covered and he is making 10% more for his troubles and time taken. A very fair business orientated deal. Those that needed it were grateful to him for his travels and understood the difference in price.

So he is not gouging and then it's fair play. He is getting a product in demand to market. If he'd had a much larger vehicle he could have brought the price down yet again. But that's not really the same as housing is it.

In Krabi they got a hotel consortium together and slashed prices for 20 hotels if a refugee comes in.

Edited October 29, 2011 by animatic