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Qantas Grounds Entire Fleet In 'Unbelievable' Step


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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Why is he using U.S Dollars, Australians get paid in Australian currency and not U.S. Guess it glorifies it a little more. $93,000 U.S = $86,831 AUD so I guess that does not seem as much as hightlighted.

I have a few mates who sling Qantas luggage for 90K (AUD) per year, the greedy (Unions) want more.

Edited by 7by7
Extremely offensive expletive removed.
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Will be interesting to see the ASX in the morning, might be a few expats crying in thier cornflakes if thier retirement funds are directly or indirectly linked to Qantas shares. I would guess there has been millions striped from Qantas shares after this debacle by management. Hope they informed the ASX of thier actions or else the <deleted> could really hit the fan.:hit-the-fan:

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Thumbs up. Its time for companies to take a stand against unions.

It is unbelievable how unions threaten to strike whenever they want to negotiate higher wages.

Only wished the U.S. auto makers took this route instead of having billions of dollars bailing them out.

The auto companies have already paid the money back and now they are selling more cars than their competitors.
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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What is also shocking is the behaviour and attitude of the union workers. I have never met any group of people who get paid so much money for such little work and have conditions so good but yet bitch and complain about everything like it is some massive hardship. The ridiculous demands and strikes they throw at every opportunity (basically because it extends the job) would make any regular hard working Joe elsewhere in the word sick if they could see how these people act.

I'm glad Qantas is not putting up with it, good on them, hopefully it shows these cashed up bogans which side their bread is buttered on and gives them a bit of a reality check.

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What is also shocking is the behaviour and attitude of the union workers. I have never met any group of people who get paid so much money for such little work and have conditions so good but yet bitch and complain about everything like it is some massive hardship. The ridiculous demands and strikes they throw at every opportunity (basically because it extends the job) would make any regular hard working Joe elsewhere in the word sick if they could see how these people act.

I'm glad Qantas is not putting up with it, good on them, hopefully it shows these cashed up bogans which side their bread is buttered on and gives them a bit of a reality check.

and just what is it that you do that affords you the pleasure of having someone make your bed for you each morning. Maids earning over 300K AUD sorry but now you are really blowing wind up my a#@e

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What is also shocking is the behaviour and attitude of the union workers. I have never met any group of people who get paid so much money for such little work and have conditions so good but yet bitch and complain about everything like it is some massive hardship. The ridiculous demands and strikes they throw at every opportunity (basically because it extends the job) would make any regular hard working Joe elsewhere in the word sick if they could see how these people act.

I'm glad Qantas is not putting up with it, good on them, hopefully it shows these cashed up bogans which side their bread is buttered on and gives them a bit of a reality check.

and just what is it that you do that affords you the pleasure of having someone make your bed for you each morning. Maids earning over 300K AUD sorry but now you are really blowing wind up my a#@e

If you do not know what you are talking about then don't flap your mouth without researching it first.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/laundry-staff-can-earn-more-than-420k-a-year-on-offshore-construction-projects/story-e6frf7l6-1226027779689

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KunMatt I think working as your maid on an oil rig offshore is a totally different thing to working a a miad in a local motel 8 hours per day. You never mentioned in your post anything about offshore oilrigs you infered that maids in Australia were earning $300K as if this was the norm. What is the percentile of maids on the rigs against normal onshore maids? I would say it wouldn't even register on the scale. Your argument is based on a handfull of people. I am glad that the unions had no hand in these people being awarded this money. As a fellow rig worker can you please explain what the base wage is and then what the allowences amount to and what are the legth of shifts etc. I am sure you yourself were not dragged onto the rigs kicking and screaming. What is your position and what sort of huge money do you cheerfully put your hand out for each payday. If the maids make your bed then I am sure that thier wage is a pittance to what you receive.

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KunMatt I think working as your maid on an oil rig offshore is a totally different thing to working a a miad in a local motel 8 hours per day. You never mentioned in your post anything about offshore oilrigs you infered that maids in Australia were earning $300K as if this was the norm. What is the percentile of maids on the rigs against normal onshore maids? I would say it wouldn't even register on the scale. Your argument is based on a handfull of people. I am glad that the unions had no hand in these people being awarded this money. As a fellow rig worker can you please explain what the base wage is and then what the allowences amount to and what are the legth of shifts etc. I am sure you yourself were not dragged onto the rigs kicking and screaming. What is your position and what sort of huge money do you cheerfully put your hand out for each payday. If the maids make your bed then I am sure that thier wage is a pittance to what you receive.

I think if you read my first sentence again it will answer all of your questions and confusions:

"I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids."

Edited by KunMatt
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KunMatt I think working as your maid on an oil rig offshore is a totally different thing to working a a miad in a local motel 8 hours per day. You never mentioned in your post anything about offshore oilrigs you infered that maids in Australia were earning $300K as if this was the norm. What is the percentile of maids on the rigs against normal onshore maids? I would say it wouldn't even register on the scale. Your argument is based on a handfull of people. I am glad that the unions had no hand in these people being awarded this money. As a fellow rig worker can you please explain what the base wage is and then what the allowences amount to and what are the legth of shifts etc. I am sure you yourself were not dragged onto the rigs kicking and screaming. What is your position and what sort of huge money do you cheerfully put your hand out for each payday. If the maids make your bed then I am sure that thier wage is a pittance to what you receive.

I think if you read my first sentence again it will answer all of your questions and confusions:

"I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids."

Here is my question again...............

As a fellow rig worker can you please explain what the base wage is and then what the allowences amount to and what are the legth of shifts etc. I am sure you yourself were not dragged onto the rigs kicking and screaming. What is your position and what sort of huge money do you cheerfully put your hand out for each payday. If the maids make your bed then I am sure that thier wage is a pittance to what you receive.

The 1st sentence of your post doesn't answer that.

I understand that you work in the mining industry which is unionised but your company is not. The unions abtained the awards and the standards the industry has. In Australia just because you are part of a union does not mean that you get a higher wage. If you have say 2 of your maids on the rigs both making your bed and one is a union member and the other is not they will both recieve the same awards and levels of pay for doing the same job. It is the law.

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Here is my question again...............

As a fellow rig worker can you please explain what the base wage is and then what the allowences amount to and what are the legth of shifts etc. I am sure you yourself were not dragged onto the rigs kicking and screaming. What is your position and what sort of huge money do you cheerfully put your hand out for each payday. If the maids make your bed then I am sure that thier wage is a pittance to what you receive.

Base wage for who?? There is a massive discrepancy between union workers wages and conditions and non-union workers wages and conditions. Seeing as I work for a company which is non-union then my salary is a fraction of the maids who have just walked into a menial job with no education or experience, so you are wrong in your assumptions again, I thought you could have worked that out from my first sentence before.

The point is I am more than happy with my salary and the conditions here are luxurious compared to everywhere else in the world I have worked even though we are treated as 2nd class workers and are given the worse rooms, no bonuses, no redundancy, no superannuation, no awards etc which the union guys all get and more. As good as things are here for the union guys that has not prevented 3 huge industrial actions (two of them which were illegal) costing millions of dollars and extending this job by weeks, maybe even months. Again, I am not complaining because it is more work for my company but it is a more than a tad annoying listening to people whinge about how bad it is here getting paid $2,000 a day to eat steaks for breakfast and sit around chatting to their mates for 12 hours. Anyone who thinks the unions are just helping out the downtrodden from the big evil companies are being misled by the union leader's propaganda, it is purely driven by greed and selfishness, as I am sure is the same with what is going on with the Qantas workers too.

The 1st sentence of your post doesn't answer that.

I understand that you work in the mining industry which is unionised but your company is not. The unions abtained the awards and the standards the industry has. In Australia just because you are part of a union does not mean that you get a higher wage. If you have say 2 of your maids on the rigs both making your bed and one is a union member and the other is not they will both recieve the same awards and levels of pay for doing the same job. It is the law.

Wrong again. There would not be 2 maids on this job (they are called stewards btw, and they are mostly grown men), one union and one non-union, because only a steward who was part of the union here could work here. It may be the law that a non-union steward could work here but in practice I have never seen it and it would never happen because the unions would strike and bully the non-union steward out of a job.

We have another company who is part of a union from the other coast and they get completely different pay and conditions to the unions from this side of Australia.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about but you are trying to argue with me about something, I'm not really too sure what though or what your point is.

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What is also shocking is the behaviour and attitude of the union workers. I have never met any group of people who get paid so much money for such little work and have conditions so good but yet bitch and complain about everything like it is some massive hardship. The ridiculous demands and strikes they throw at every opportunity (basically because it extends the job) would make any regular hard working Joe elsewhere in the word sick if they could see how these people act.

I'm glad Qantas is not putting up with it, good on them, hopefully it shows these cashed up bogans which side their bread is buttered on and gives them a bit of a reality check.

If you expect anybody to give that statement any credibility, you could at least state which industry we are talking about.

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What is also shocking is the behaviour and attitude of the union workers. I have never met any group of people who get paid so much money for such little work and have conditions so good but yet bitch and complain about everything like it is some massive hardship. The ridiculous demands and strikes they throw at every opportunity (basically because it extends the job) would make any regular hard working Joe elsewhere in the word sick if they could see how these people act.

I'm glad Qantas is not putting up with it, good on them, hopefully it shows these cashed up bogans which side their bread is buttered on and gives them a bit of a reality check.

But of course in Australia there are no problems like currently everywhere else in the world how_the_bubble_burst_lg.jpg

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On Sunday 30 October 2011, 14:11 EST Qantas has announced the immediate grounding of its entire fleet as a long-running industrial dispute with employees, including pilots and engineers, comes to a head.

Here are some facts about the stand-off: Industrial action by three unions, representing engineers, baggage and catering staff and long-haul pilots, has been ongoing for several months over pay and conditions.

ABC/AFP

http://au.finance.ya...1507296349.html

Edited by metisdead
Edited for fair use.
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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Why is he using U.S Dollars, Australians get paid in Australian currency and not U.S. Guess it glorifies it a little more. $93,000 U.S = $86,831 AUD so I guess that does not seem as much as hightlighted.

I suspect because US$ are more easily understood the world over. I'm from the UK and new immediately how much that was. If it had been quotes in AUS$ I (and I suspect all non-Aussies) would have to go searching for the current exchange rate.

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What industry is it that pays 300,000 dollars a year to 18 year olds for making beds?

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Aussie court ends Qantas strike, fleet grounding

CANBERRA, Australia (AP) -- An Australian court has ended the union strikes and abrupt grounding of Qantas Airways fleet after it stranded tens of thousands of passengers.

The court ruled early Monday morning after hearing more than 14 hours of testimony from the airline, the Australian government and unions. Workers have held strikes and refused overtime work out of worry that some of Qantas' 35,000 jobs would be moved overseas in a restructing plan.

The airline argued the strikes disrupted operations and it needed certainty to continue operating.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_AUSTRALIA_QANTAS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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What industry is it that pays 300,000 dollars a year to 18 year olds for making beds?

An industry that has been held to ransom and squeezed to death by unions

http://www.heraldsun...6-1226027779689

A few oil companies have packed up and gone back to West Africa, after their projects were destroyed by the union's actions and strikes. If you were working in it you would not be at all surprised.

Edited by KunMatt
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Rolling coverage: Industrial action terminated with Qantas set fly again

The marathon 12-hours video hearing, held in Melbourne but linked to hearings in Canberra and Sydney, left the full bench under president Geoffrey Guidice with the choice of leaving Qantas grounded, or getting the airline flying by suspending or terminating the right of the airline and unions to take any action against each other.

The decision is a win for Qantas and the Gillard Government. Minister Bill Shorten said:

"Fair Work Australia has upheld the application of the Gillard Government.We are conscious of the tens of thousands of travellers stranded in Australia and across the world. We were aware that the economy was at risk of great danger. We were aware that the industrial action between the unions and Qantas needed to come to a halt."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-grounds-entire-fleet/story-e6frfq80-1226180315331#ixzz1cHSGxJU3

Edited by saintofsilence
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Qantas to remain grounded until Monday noon, thousandsstranded

An emergency hearing is underway in Melbourne in an attemptto resolve the industrial dispute that has led to Qantas grounding its entirefleet.

The hearing at Fair Work Australia (FWA) began late lastnight and was adjourned until this afternoon.

The industrial umpire will decide whether Qantas actedlegally in grounding its entire fleet in response to the ongoing industrialdispute with three unions.

The FWA could potentially suspend strike action for as longas 120 days so talks can take place, or order a permanent termination to thedispute and so permit Qantas to take to the skies again.

The Federal Government has applied to end the industrialaction on the grounds it is damaging the economy.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/11084497/thousands-stranded-due-to-qantas-dispute

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A very expensive game of Chicken.

And not a small amount of Union breaking in play too.

Reminds me a bit of Reagan firing every single Aircraft Controller on strike in USA.

It's costing qantas 15mil AUD per day. The CEO and board members did just grant themselves huge pay increases also.

sorry i hope bastard greedy pigs get what they deserve id 100% support any union trying to defend slave wages and improve lot of those really at bottom but these people mostly earn what most normal people would give their eye teeth to earn id also 100% support any shareholder revolt on non [performing top execs pay scales and would support a maximum say 50 times lowest wage for top but this lot are just im all right jack people and i wish they ahd a fmaily and kids and try and live on even 20,000 baht a month

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The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

Not a disease at all. If their service was good then it would have never have happened. Staff are worse than shit and Sydney airport is simply a joke.

absolutely i flew quantas once never again rude arrogant staff crap food the staff all deserve dole they even insulted my thai wife in first class morons hoe they all end up with nowt

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

id do it for half as would 90% ++ of people greedy pigs

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Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Why is he using U.S Dollars, Australians get paid in Australian currency and not U.S. Guess it glorifies it a little more. $93,000 U.S = $86,831 AUD so I guess that does not seem as much as hightlighted.

id still do it for half either paid in aus $ aus $ or even Sigapore $ as would 99% of world again greedy bastards my 12 year old teacher gets less than 1/5th of that and shes worth triple any baggage handler pathetic i hope they all end up trying to live on what normal people have

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Getting back on topic, my understanding of the disputed issues are as follows;

Company

-Needs to control costs to keep ticket prices down to remain competitive

-Asia is the market that represents future growth for Qantas and is an important contributor to profitablity, in effect helping to subsidize costs in Australia.

-To best serve the Asian market, Qantas wants to build up its Asian service hubs and grow its asian market. In order to do this, Qantas has to invest in the asian market and undertake a responsible ethical approach, which means sharing some of the profits with the asian markets that are contributing.

-In order to compete in asia,Qantas must have similar cost structures to the asian carriers.

Union

-Concerned about the loss of high paying jobs to asia and will do its utmost to keep the jobs in Australia, even if it means denying the asian markets a fair share of the work the asian markets generate.

- Protecting the workers' jobs and pay.

The Qantas labour unions have been on a work to rule and labour pressure campaign for some time. This has made it very difficult for the airline to operate. Qantas' decision to shut down operations was a response to the threat of labour walkouts and labour work hour inflexibility.

Qantas labour has every legal right to enforce the terms of its contract and to act in a manner it deems is appropriate to protect its members. Unfortunately, the strategy is short sighted as it does not take into account that Qantas needs the international business in order to break even, let alone make a profit. Qantas management has failed to clearly explain its case, in part because the general public is hostile to airlines because of the perception of increasing airfares and poor service. Unfortunately for Qantas a large portion of airfare is attributable to taxes and the government doesn't like that to be discussed, and the poor service is the result of some employees.

I'm not going to bash the Qantas workers, because there are many that do work hard and try to make flying a less than miserable experience. Some of these workers have to face horrible customers that expect 1st class service when paying LCC discount fares. In other cases, 1 worker is expected to do the work of 2 or 3 beecause the wages are such that the airline cannot afford to put additional staff on the job. A recipe for financial collapse unless there is some movement on the structure of jobs and even pay. I don't think anyone would complain about a FA or ticket agent's salary if they did not at some time experience the nasty employee attitudes. No one questions a pilot's pay as the airplanes are complicated machines and the pilot is responsible for the safe transport of human life. Same goes for a skilled mechanic. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unskilled and semi skilled workers out there that do not quite grasp that while their job is important and valued, it just isn't worth the total wage and benefits package paid.

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Getting back on topic, my understanding of the disputed issues are as follows;

Company

-Needs to control costs to keep ticket prices down to remain competitive

-Asia is the market that represents future growth for Qantas and is an important contributor to profitablity, in effect helping to subsidize costs in Australia.

-To best serve the Asian market, Qantas wants to build up its Asian service hubs and grow its asian market. In order to do this, Qantas has to invest in the asian market and undertake a responsible ethical approach, which means sharing some of the profits with the asian markets that are contributing.

-In order to compete in asia,Qantas must have similar cost structures to the asian carriers.

Union

-Concerned about the loss of high paying jobs to asia and will do its utmost to keep the jobs in Australia, even if it means denying the asian markets a fair share of the work the asian markets generate.

- Protecting the workers' jobs and pay.

The Qantas labour unions have been on a work to rule and labour pressure campaign for some time. This has made it very difficult for the airline to operate. Qantas' decision to shut down operations was a response to the threat of labour walkouts and labour work hour inflexibility.

Qantas labour has every legal right to enforce the terms of its contract and to act in a manner it deems is appropriate to protect its members. Unfortunately, the strategy is short sighted as it does not take into account that Qantas needs the international business in order to break even, let alone make a profit. Qantas management has failed to clearly explain its case, in part because the general public is hostile to airlines because of the perception of increasing airfares and poor service. Unfortunately for Qantas a large portion of airfare is attributable to taxes and the government doesn't like that to be discussed, and the poor service is the result of some employees.

I'm not going to bash the Qantas workers, because there are many that do work hard and try to make flying a less than miserable experience. Some of these workers have to face horrible customers that expect 1st class service when paying LCC discount fares. In other cases, 1 worker is expected to do the work of 2 or 3 beecause the wages are such that the airline cannot afford to put additional staff on the job. A recipe for financial collapse unless there is some movement on the structure of jobs and even pay. I don't think anyone would complain about a FA or ticket agent's salary if they did not at some time experience the nasty employee attitudes. No one questions a pilot's pay as the airplanes are complicated machines and the pilot is responsible for the safe transport of human life. Same goes for a skilled mechanic. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unskilled and semi skilled workers out there that do not quite grasp that while their job is important and valued, it just isn't worth the total wage and benefits package paid.

All that is well and good but most of the Joe Public think of it this way....

Qantas CEO gets a huge pay rise for taking jobs offshore and another thousand jobs to go. That payrise is not really voted on by shareholders and most don't bother to turn up or vote on such things. Reality shows it is really only the largest shareholders that have the determining vote and as they would also be on the board then it is pretty much a rubber stamp to receive pay rises.

The Oz Govt protects Qantas with special treatment for the routes they fly and positioning at terminals etc because they are our national carrier. Qantas gets first choice in oz and the other airlines stand in line and fight over the scraps. This is because it is considered our national carrier.

Joe Public is sick of Qantas tugging at the heartstrings and saying we should show loyalty and fly with the national carrier when the company is tearing the workforce to pieces and sending work offshore to the lowest bidder. Add to that the service provided is also crap and they make it feel like you are really causing them an imposition by being on their planes.

According to the evidence stated from at the tribunal hearing union stoppages were less then 8 hours during this whole dispute. Less than 8 hours is not exactly unions holding the company to ransom and extremely premature for the company to stop negotiating and cancel all flights. That is why the govt stepped in and made the application to the tribunal.

If Qantas want to go offshore then that's up to them but they must be prepared to lose all govt concessions, which they still expect to receive, and they must be prepared to lose a large percentage of patronage in oz. The company cannot expect to receive any loyalty whatsoever if it refuses to show any in return.

We are not known in oz for our high intellect but we sure as hell don't like being treated like mugs.

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What industry is it that pays 300,000 dollars a year to 18 year olds for making beds?

An industry that has been held to ransom and squeezed to death by unions

http://www.heraldsun...6-1226027779689

A few oil companies have packed up and gone back to West Africa, after their projects were destroyed by the union's actions and strikes. If you were working in it you would not be at all surprised.

That wage is the 'maximum' one can earn. It doesn't state what hours and what is expected. It doesn't even say if anyone actually earns that amount. A total beat up to make it sound more than what it really is. You will find that the salary quoted will actually include the cost of the flights to and from the rig as well. A quick google search and you will soon find the article isn't exactly being entirely truthful.

It certainly hasn't scared off the O&G industry. There are many projects and the companies cannot get enough workers so the govt is having a huge drive to get workers from overseas.

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