Govt 'Will Heed' His Majesty's Advice : PM Yingluck

[bigbamboo]

Good to see someone in Thailand has foresight and doesn't rely on fortune tellers to see what will happen in the future. Shame no one in authority paid any attention all those years ago.

[Buchholz]

Propaganda? What propaganda? My data is backed up by charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Please provide a link for the source of these alleged charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Thanks.

[philw]

Propaganda? What propaganda? My data is backed up by charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Please provide a link for the source of these alleged charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Thanks.

You might have to scan a few entries , but i think about 3-4 days ago.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/bangkokpundit/

There is much food for thought that strangely never makes it to TV.

[animatic]

Certainly nothing close to the 500% over average hyperbole he was bandying about in his first screed on the subject. Of course so far this seems under attributed other than Bangkokpundit.

It appears that after getting caught with their political dick in the dike, they are doing everything in their power to make it 'appear false' A minister will hand a ginned up statistical analysis to an underling, and he HAS to run with it. The Boss said to.

Often the initial report rings true and then the spin tries to swamp it with disinformation.

Edited November 5, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

Propaganda? What propaganda? My data is backed up by charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Please provide a link for the source of these alleged charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Thanks.

You might have to scan a few entries , but i think about 3-4 days ago.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/bangkokpundit/

There is much food for thought that strangely never makes it to TV.

These tables only tell part of the story. Now data needed is the level of water in two/three dams, inflow/outflow. There was a table or link in TV a week or two ago, but can't find it again. Vaguely remember that starting July/August (?) release was increased, but level still rising. Keep in mind that the dams are supposed to retain water for the dry period which is coming. With uncertainty in rainfall retention/release starts to become juggling statistics with a look at the sky.

Only with all that info you can start to (try to) correlate and interpret. IMHO

[Buchholz]

Propaganda? What propaganda? My data is backed up by charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Please provide a link for the source of these alleged charts of the Thai Meteorological Department.

Thanks.

You might have to scan a few entries , but i think about 3-4 days ago.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/bangkokpundit/

There is much food for thought that strangely never makes it to TV.

Actually, I was hoping for a more direct link with the governmental source as I was unable to find it on the blogger's website.

I agree with you that it would be terrific if there was more information submitted to the forum by its members.

QUOTE 'hanuman1'

Thanks for your valuable work in the field and the reports you provide, Nick. It is as interesting for its content as it is for the responses it elicits.

I hope you continue to shed light here on what's happening on the ground as it adds an important dimension to the articles we are fed here every day.

UNQUOTE

IMHO, it's incumbent upon all participants of the discussion to add to that discussion by submitting articles of their own choosing to widen the dimension of discussion or to do so by contributing their own on-the-ground experiences.

It's a shame there's precious little of the former and only a smattering of the latter, which then leads to the expressions that we somehow should expect to be spoon fed by Admin the total sum of the information presented on the forum.

There's a wealth of information out there that's available, but not discussed because its not presented by anyone.

Of course the above is written with the caveat that any information submitted needs to be duly annotated with the expected norm of posting direct links from which the information is obtained as otherwise it's just unverified Word documents that can easily be created by nearly anyone.

I've seen on occasion where Admin has made such posts invisible until such time as a proper link has been submitted to verify the veracity of the information posted.

.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Buchholz

[mrfarang]

Here are the direct links to the documents:

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/January-2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/February2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/March_2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/04-April-2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/May%202011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/June2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/JU.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/August%202011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th/programs/uploads/yearlySummary/sep2011.pdf

As you can see, the problem started in March, well before Yingluck took office and well before Abhisit left. It's very clear that Abhisit knew of the looming catastrophe and did nothing about it. He was however one of the first to attack Yingluck and declare her incompetent to handle the situation.

We should not blame the person who's trying to solve the crisis, but we should blame the person who caused it in the first place.

Another interesting thing to note is that ...why have the dams and rainfalls been managed without problems for decades and only this year we have this crisis? It's not a natural catastrophe, this is man-made by someone who doesn't give a sh** about Thailand and it's people. Is it Abhisit? Or someone behind him? Who knows.

[Buchholz]

Here are the direct links to the documents:

<snipped>

Thank you.

[Skorz]

A year from now, all of these grand plans will be shelved, the country's government will again be too busy money and power grabbing to do anything of substantial good as HM has suggested. It takes very little time for Thai people to 'forgive and forget', even if it is a massive flood. And then 5, 10, 20 years down the line when there is another massive flood, the whole cycle will repeat itself.

I don't agree. It's very easy to sit back and bash the Thais for not having the foresight to sort this out before it happened. They didn't act properly because only the poor suffered in previous flooding and Thailand is a class society much the same as the UK and USA. - the difference being Thailand admits this openly.

Anyway, the tables have just turned. The reality of sudden and long term financial loss for the high society business owners as a direct result of the flood are now unavoidable. As we all know money talks, those who make the decisions are now extremely motivated to work together and prevent this happening (at least in Bangkok and it's manufacturing regions) again.

Therefore, competitive (don't laugh please) tendering of massive flood mitigation construction projects will almost certainly be the next big thing for those who can afford to play. I personally think that we're about to see construction of national flood prevention structures/planning commencing as soon as the water level is low enough for work to commence.

[tlansford]

Here are the direct links to the documents:

http://www.tmd.go.th...anuary-2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th...ebruary2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th.../March_2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th...-April-2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th.../May%202011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th...ry/June2011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th...ySummary/JU.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th...gust%202011.pdf

http://www.tmd.go.th...ary/sep2011.pdf

As you can see, the problem started in March, well before Yingluck took office and well before Abhisit left. It's very clear that Abhisit knew of the looming catastrophe and did nothing about it. He was however one of the first to attack Yingluck and declare her incompetent to handle the situation.

We should not blame the person who's trying to solve the crisis, but we should blame the person who caused it in the first place.

Another interesting thing to note is that ...why have the dams and rainfalls been managed without problems for decades and only this year we have this crisis? It's not a natural catastrophe, this is man-made by someone who doesn't give a sh** about Thailand and it's people. Is it Abhisit? Or someone behind him? Who knows.

Thanks. March was an odd month this year. The cold snap and the earthquake (Chiang mai) along with the flooding in the South. And of course that little natural disaster in Japan, too. I have a friend whose restaurants on Koh Tao flooded in March, and her house in BKK is flooded now. I expect she'll be happy to see 2012 arrive.

The direct links are convenient. On the other hand, you are certainly also aware that in all likelihood everyone posting on this thread knows how to find the TMD site & navigate to the alleged data.

[Buchholz]

Here are the direct links to the documents:

<snipped>

<snip>

The direct links are convenient. On the other hand, you are certainly also aware that in all likelihood everyone posting on this thread knows how to find the TMD site & navigate to the alleged data.

Nonsense.

If you wish to participate in the discussion and submit new information, it's an expected practice to provide links to that information... without having to be asked for it.

If you personally wish to spend your time tracking down information that someone submits, that's your prerogative, but to expect others to do so is absurd and not the normal protocol.

.

[animatic]

There are Lies

Damned Lies

and Statistics.

The last can be massaged to fit the users scenario and

are difficult enough to read for some the buy into the

ready made conclusions always attached to the statistics.

What I read in the statistics, and their conveniently added bar graphs was an ham-handed attempt to muddy the waters, and displace blame to the Dems, while moving as much away fro the government and ministries in charge as possible.

Thai Government Political Functioning 101 Save your ass, and then save face ASAP.

But this is just more disinformation,

and attempts to prevent a cabinet minister from being run up the flagpole by the short hairs, and sent to the guillotine as first in line. Sorry the data doesn't support the conclusions written for it.

[tlansford]

Here are the direct links to the documents:

<snipped>

<snip>

The direct links are convenient. On the other hand, you are certainly also aware that in all likelihood everyone posting on this thread knows how to find the TMD site & navigate to the alleged data.

Nonsense.

If you wish to participate in the discussion and submit new information, it's an expected practice to provide links to that information... without having to be asked for it.

If you personally wish to spend your time tracking down information that someone submits, that's your prerogative, but to expect others to do so is absurd and not the normal protocol.

.

... nonsense to you sir.

mrfarang posted the actual screen shot of the document and the only reason to need a link to it would be due to a denial about the validity of the data from TMD. As you said, "alleged". I find it disingenuous for you to hide your biases behind forum protocol. I believe that just this past week you did not put to question the possible validity of an internet photo from a radio station boat, but here you call screenshots of TMD documents "alleged" data.

[nikster]

A year from now, all of these grand plans will be shelved, the country's government will again be too busy money and power grabbing to do anything of substantial good as HM has suggested. It takes very little time for Thai people to 'forgive and forget', even if it is a massive flood. And then 5, 10, 20 years down the line when there is another massive flood, the whole cycle will repeat itself.

I don't agree. It's very easy to sit back and bash the Thais for not having the foresight to sort this out before it happened. They didn't act properly because only the poor suffered in previous flooding and Thailand is a class society much the same as the UK and USA. - the difference being Thailand admits this openly.

Anyway, the tables have just turned. The reality of sudden and long term financial loss for the high society business owners as a direct result of the flood are now unavoidable. As we all know money talks, those who make the decisions are now extremely motivated to work together and prevent this happening (at least in Bangkok and it's manufacturing regions) again.

Therefore, competitive (don't laugh please) tendering of massive flood mitigation construction projects will almost certainly be the next big thing for those who can afford to play. I personally think that we're about to see construction of national flood prevention structures/planning commencing as soon as the water level is low enough for work to commence.

I agree.

Things can happen really fast in Thailand when money interests are concerned. Not saying that's a bad thing either, at least things can happen really fast under some circumstances...

[Buchholz]

Here are the direct links to the documents:

<snipped>

<snip>

The direct links are convenient. On the other hand, you are certainly also aware that in all likelihood everyone posting on this thread knows how to find the TMD site & navigate to the alleged data.

Nonsense.

If you wish to participate in the discussion and submit new information, it's an expected practice to provide links to that information... without having to be asked for it.

If you personally wish to spend your time tracking down information that someone submits, that's your prerogative, but to expect others to do so is absurd and not the normal protocol.

.

... nonsense to you sir.

mrfarang posted the actual screen shot of the document and the only reason to need a link to it would be due to a denial about the validity of the data from TMD. As you said, "alleged". I find it disingenuous for you to hide your biases behind forum protocol. I believe that just this past week you did not put to question the possible validity of an internet photo from a radio station boat, but here you call screenshots of TMD documents "alleged" data.

*sigh*

As said, what was posted by mrfarang were Word documents (with nothing to show their origin).

As said, nearly anyone can produce Word documents

As said, the only reason I asked for a link was to validate the documents were genuine.

As said, it is the forum's normal and expected protocol to provide links when citing information.

No one has previously had much difficulty with accepting that and complying with that standardized practice.... except you.

Can you not find something else to stir up trouble over?

.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Buchholz

[philw]

A year from now, all of these grand plans will be shelved, the country's government will again be too busy money and power grabbing to do anything of substantial good as HM has suggested. It takes very little time for Thai people to 'forgive and forget', even if it is a massive flood. And then 5, 10, 20 years down the line when there is another massive flood, the whole cycle will repeat itself.

I don't agree. It's very easy to sit back and bash the Thais for not having the foresight to sort this out before it happened. They didn't act properly because only the poor suffered in previous flooding and Thailand is a class society much the same as the UK and USA. - the difference being Thailand admits this openly.

Anyway, the tables have just turned. The reality of sudden and long term financial loss for the high society business owners as a direct result of the flood are now unavoidable. As we all know money talks, those who make the decisions are now extremely motivated to work together and prevent this happening (at least in Bangkok and it's manufacturing regions) again.

Therefore, competitive (don't laugh please) tendering of massive flood mitigation construction projects will almost certainly be the next big thing for those who can afford to play. I personally think that we're about to see construction of national flood prevention structures/planning commencing as soon as the water level is low enough for work to commence.

I agree, things will start to change now.

There is a lot of info, anger and awareness out there and and everybody knows fresh thinking is needed and a result required.

The younger politicians and administrators are starting to realise this.

The scorn on here for Yingluck may well be misplaced, give it another year and see where it goes.

[silverhawk_usa]

The OP is titled, "Govt Will Heed his Majesty's advice" .............Excuse me if I missed something as this topic is now some 5 or 6 pages long, and mired in stated facts that I only scanned. What is a GLARING comment to me is as quoted;

His Majesty the King's advice to build waterways to protect the capital and its suburbs from inundation will be taken into consideration as a long-term measure, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said yesterday. His Majesty had made this suggestion after the 1980 and 1995 deluges.

"Taken into consideration as a long term measure" and "Will Heed" are worlds apart. I don't see any serious commitment in the original quote allegedly made by the PM.

[philw]

*sigh*

As said, what was posted by mrfarang were Word documents (with nothing to show their origin).

As said, nearly anyone can produce Word documents

As said, the only reason I asked for a link was to validate the documents were genuine.

As said, it is the forum's normal and expected protocol to provide links when citing information.

No one has previously had much difficulty with accepting that and complying with that standardized practice.... except you.

Can you not find something else to stir up trouble over?

.

Your disingenuity Buchholz, is both amazing and insultingly selective.

The link i gave is to http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/bangkokpundit/ who clearly cites and qualifies all his sources.

For what purpose do you just muddy the water ???

[Buchholz]

Unbelievable.

Your post and the link was not only not a direct link to the source, but also very vague as to its location on that website.

This isn't rocket science nor a major conspiracy, it's simply a request for a link which has been done hundreds of times on this board whenever new posters are unaware with the expected protocol.

The original poster didn't have a problem with complying once informed of the procedure.... why do you and tlansford squirm so much over something so fundamentally basic?

[culicine]

The OP is titled, "Govt Will Heed his Majesty's advice" .............Excuse me if I missed something as this topic is now some 5 or 6 pages long, and mired in stated facts that I only scanned. What is a GLARING comment to me is as quoted;

His Majesty the King's advice to build waterways to protect the capital and its suburbs from inundation will be taken into consideration as a long-term measure, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said yesterday. His Majesty had made this suggestion after the 1980 and 1995 deluges.

"Taken into consideration as a long term measure" and "Will Heed" are worlds apart. I don't see any serious commitment in the original quote allegedly made by the PM.

Perhaps we wouldn't be in this predicament, or al least not to this severity, if His Majesties advice was taken after the 1980 flood. What's the best after the cleanup that it will all be forgotten about in a year or two - unless there's some money to be made somewhere.

[philw]

Unbelievable.

Your post and the link was not only not a direct link to the source, but also very vague as to its location on that website.

This isn't rocket science nor a major conspiracy, it's simply a request for a link which has been done hundreds of times on this board whenever new posters are unaware with the expected protocol.

The original poster didn't have a problem with complying once informed of the procedure.... why do you and tlansford squirm so much over something so fundamentally basic?

So you didn't look at the link that you requested...........

Otherwise you would have seen the sources provided.

Squirm indeed.............

[rubl]

Having had look at the PDF's pointed to be mrfarang, I took the totals and deviations

2011		North		North-East
month	average			average
yrltot	deviation	yrltot	deviation
jan	0005	-10%		0001	-95%
feb	0012	-30%		0015	-29%
mar	0118	183%		0038	-35%
apr	0238	117%		0117	-19%
may	0483	71%		0318	-3%
jun	0698	60%		0505	-6%
jul	0957	56%		0825	11%
aug	1231	47%		1150	15%
sep	1541	46%		1502	21%

To conclude is difficult without further data and reference, but maybe:

- North-East had a real dry spell till July

- in the North March was really wet

- in the North the rainy season started relatively slow as the average deviation in percentage over the total year goes DOWN

Really insufficient data to say much more than this. Data has to be correlated with previous years and trends over longer periods. Data on dam contents, inflow/outflow required.

Even my little exercise has limited value, imagine

Edited November 5, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

Unbelievable.

Your post and the link was not only not a direct link to the source, but also very vague as to its location on that website.

This isn't rocket science nor a major conspiracy, it's simply a request for a link which has been done hundreds of times on this board whenever new posters are unaware with the expected protocol.

The original poster didn't have a problem with complying once informed of the procedure.... why do you and tlansford squirm so much over something so fundamentally basic?

So you didn't look at the link that you requested...........

Otherwise you would have seen the sources provided.

Squirm indeed.............

And so on it goes.

I did look at the link you sent and as it wasn't readily evident where exactly on the entire website the information was which is why I made my earlier reply.

You couldn't even be bothered yourself to find the exact location on the website where the information was.

Instead, you wish to turn a simply straight-forward request for a link (which was subsequently provided as well as duly thanked for once provided) into some completely unnecessary and unjustified squabbling.

You two need to find something else to moan about instead of thrashing around over a non-issue.

.

[tlansford]

edit : never mind...

Edited November 5, 2011 by tlansford

[RaoulDuke]

Perhaps they should put the monarchy back in charge, as they seem to have the best ideas, anyway. Democracy does not seem to be working too well in Thailand right now, and with all the infighting, HM is about the only person who would be able to unify the people. Democracy is by and large a failed experiment, anyway, as long as the masses are uneducated, ignorant, and easily manipulated. This is true of people in the USA just the same as Thailand, the more uneducated the people are, the more miserably the failure and more widespread the corruption will become. I think it is time to come up with a new system of government, surely some lessons have been learned in the last 250 years.

I think Winston Churchill summed it up best:

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

(I don't see how this is in violation of lese majeste, as I am suggesting what the government should do, not the King, but feel free to delete if it is.)

Edited November 5, 2011 by RaoulDuke

[philw]

edit : never mind...

Maybe we should squirm in unison.............

There's non so strange as folk.

[philw]

And so on it goes.

I did look at the link you sent and as it wasn't readily evident where exactly on the entire website the information was which is why I made my earlier reply.

You couldn't even be bothered yourself to find the exact location on the website where the information was.

Instead, you wish to turn a simply straight-forward request for a link (which was subsequently provided as well as duly thanked for once provided) into some completely unnecessary and unjustified squabbling.

You two need to find something else to moan about instead of thrashing around over a non-issue.

.

Bucholz, below is a paste from the site quoted.

Can you see where the source is cited ???

Clear now or still too difficult???

Bhumipol Dam: Water entering the dam, discharge of water, and capacity

By Bangkok Pundit Nov 04, 2011 4:12AM UTC

Okay, have finally tracked the figures in a friendly format and the ability to check across multiple years. The three charts, namely 1. Amount of water stored in the Bhumipol Dam., 2. Accumulated amount of water entering Bhumiphol Dam for each year for 2005-2011, and 3. Accumulated discharge of water per year in the Bhumipol Dam for 2005-2011, have to be considered together.

1. Amount of water stored in the Bhumipol Dam per year for 2005-2011

Source: Irrigation Department – the graphic when you click on the page is interesting to watch and if you put the mouse over a line in the graph, you can find the exact amount of water in the dam on that day.

[animatic]

1320505751[/url]' post='4824906']

The OP is titled, "Govt Will Heed his Majesty's advice" .............Excuse me if I missed something as this topic is now some 5 or 6 pages long, and mired in stated facts that I only scanned. What is a GLARING comment to me is as quoted;

His Majesty the King's advice to build waterways to protect the capital and its suburbs from inundation will be taken into consideration as a long-term measure, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said yesterday. His Majesty had made this suggestion after the 1980 and 1995 deluges.

"Taken into consideration as a long term measure" and "Will Heed" are worlds apart. I don't see any serious commitment in the original quote allegedly made by the PM.

That was commented on on page one.

[Insight]

Here's a link to a Thai article which states an order from the current Phua Thai government to keep the water in the damns.

Regardless of this, and the decisions previous governments have made before it, there is very little reason for crediting the current government on the way they've handled this crisis. I seriously do wonder if we'd actually be better off completely without them.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Insight

[mrfarang]

Here's a link to a Thai article which states an order from the current Phua Thai government to keep the water in the damns.

Regardless of this, and the decisions previous governments have made before it, there is very little reason for crediting the current government on the way they've handled this crisis. I seriously do wonder if we'd actually be better off completely without them.

Thank you for the article. That was on September 5th, when much of the country was already flooded. So that was indeed a good decision by Puea Thai, not to release even more water. The current crisis was created by the Abhisit administration, who did not order the dams to release water (for whatever reason) back in March through June 2011 when there was roughly 500% more rainfall than in previous years.