Floods Likely To Renew Interest In Condos: Thailand

[webfact]

Floods likely to renew interest in condos

Sucheera Pinijparakarn

The Nation

Developers, banks poised for move into reviving segment

Home-buyers are likely to shift their focus to condominiums and ensure housing projects in the provinces are in flood-free zones, according to bank executives.

There will be a renewal of interest in condominium projects after the recent slowdown due to concerns of a bubble.

Residents have seen that low-rise detached houses and townhouses became vulnerable during the recent flooding and hence there is likely to be a surge in demand for condominiums. Developers are expected to focus on this segment while they must rebuild their ongoing projects to ensure they can withstand floods, several bankers said.

Thakorn Piyapan, executive vice president at Bank of Ayudhya (BAY), said he expected banks to move into the condominium market taking into account the scope, but they will have to wait and see the strategy of developers involved in some 50,000-60,000 ongoing projects in flood-hit areas.

Most of the ongoing projects are detached houses and townhouses.

Thakorn said construction of a condominium project took about 10-18 months, longer than a low-rise project.

Also, the amount of loans that banks grant for condominiums as project financing and post-construction financing is lower than that for low-rise homes. Hence mortgage growth in 2012 will be a challenge for banks, Thakorn said.

Tinnakorn Boonyakalin, senior vice president at Krung Thai Bank (KTB), said he expected the market for condominiums to improve again, and this could help maintain mortgage growth.

Condominium projects along the mass-transit lines will have a bright outlook. KTB is financing several such projects.

He said KTB would try to maintain its new-home-loan target of Bt40 billion next year, the same amount as this year.

Praphan Anupongongarch, executive vice president at Thanachart Bank, said it still saw an opportunity in the flood crisis, especially in the unaffected areas, including the provincial housing market.

TBank has lowered its target for new home loans for the year to reflect the impact of the floods.

BAY expects the flood crisis to hit buyer sentiment, hence the target of Bt30 billion for new home loans this year will not be achievable, Thakorn said. New home loans are expected to be in the range of Bt25 billion to Bt27 billion.

In 2012, BAY projects new home loans might be lower than Bt25 billion as flood-affected people focus on repairing their houses, while new buyers who prefer detached houses or townhouses would take more time to make their decision to ensure they are in areas safe from floods.

The government must launch aggressive packages to stimulate the housing market and mortgages, the BAY executive said.

-- The Nation 2011-11-09

[zorro1]

Especially in dry areas in BKK. In lower Suk we are still unaffected

[travelmann]

All mine are 10th floor and above.

[rogerdee123]

Let's hope they start to enforce building codes.

If those condos were in a flooded area for a month, perhaps more than a few of them would become too dangerous themselves.

[rotary]

I am on 17th floor. If it floods in mine we need the "arK'

[Gippy]

I'd prefer to get flooded every now and again rather than live in a little box.

[rogerdee123]

I am on 17th floor. If it floods in mine we need the "arK'

yes you only have to worry about it tipping over and the walls cracking open if they didn't build the foundation properly and didn't put the pilings deep enough.

[zorro1]

I am on 17th floor. If it floods in mine we need the "arK'

yes you only have to worry about it tipping over and the walls cracking open if they didn't build the foundation properly and didn't put the pilings deep enough.

looking out my window ... noooop no falling condos. Should this occur you will be first to know

[givenall]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

[rogerdee123]

I am on 17th floor. If it floods in mine we need the "arK'

yes you only have to worry about it tipping over and the walls cracking open if they didn't build the foundation properly and didn't put the pilings deep enough.

looking out my window ... noooop no falling condos. Should this occur you will be first to know

Has your condo been flooded for a month?

I didn't say "falling".

Anyway don't worry I already know about enough of them

[jalansanitwong]

I would much rather live in a house and put up with the occassional floods here inThonburi than live in an 30 floor elevated dog kennel built by illegal immgrants using suspect buildng materials. What happens when you need supplies and have to go down stairs and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ?

[khaan]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

[zorro1]

What is good living in a condo when in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

That depends a lot on where the condo is located. For example In our complex there are 3 resteraunts and a family mart as well as 2 bars.

You can also stock up on just about everything

The real differance is would you rather have the logistic problems and wet and miserable or high and dry? pretty simple really

The writer here is 100% correct, of course there will be a rush on condos

by the way there is no flooding in central BKK so location is important

Edited November 9, 2011 by zorro1

[w11guy]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I pity you if you can't see why it's better. Just sit down and have a think about it. If you really can't figure it out, let me know and I'll enlighten you. Or maybe stop a 5-year old in the street and ask them. I'm sure they'll figure it out right away.

[w11guy]

I would much rather live in a house and put up with the occassional floods here inThonburi than live in an 30 floor elevated dog kennel built by illegal immgrants using suspect buildng materials. What happens when you need supplies and have to go down stairs and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ?

If the power is cut you just use candles and/or torches. I'd rather live in a dry condo without power than in a house flooded up to waist/chest height. But if you prefer a house then you are very lucky, because there should be some bargains around at the moment.

Also, the condos people buy are more likely to be in non-flooded areas, so the problems you talk about are highly unlikely to happen. This is the worst flood for 50 years and central Bangkok is still dry. It doesn't mean floods will never affect it, but it means it's pretty safe from flooding. Also, water management is bound to be improves, so flooding will be even less likely.

Dog kennels are very small. Some condos are huge. Some houses are extremely small. So whether it's better to have a house or a condo depends on what size house or condo you buy/rent.

You could ask the same questions about a flooded house. What happens when you need supplies and have to go out and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ? Your questions are equally relevant to houses and condos, so no idea why you are aiming it at people who live in condos. It is obvious that condos have an advantage in floods because they stay dry. Whether you have a house or a condo is a personal choice. Houses suit some people and condos suit others.

[finnomick1]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

Well, I suppose it'd be easier to step over my balcony into a water taxi than it would be for you to remember just where you left your submarine

[submaniac]

With land ownership laws and all, the issue may be moot for many people since only citizens may own land. However, I don't know how the average Thai would want to own a condo. The biggest problem I see is upkeep. Anywhere you go in BKK with older Condos, there just is no upkeep by the associations. Even places that aren't that old have the paint peeling off and plants growing all over the place. The condo in Thailand is made to look good just long enough to sell by the developer and then is allowed to fall apart.

[whybother]

With land ownership laws and all, the issue may be moot for many people since only citizens may own land. However, I don't know how the average Thai would want to own a condo. The biggest problem I see is upkeep. Anywhere you go in BKK with older Condos, there just is no upkeep by the associations. Even places that aren't that old have the paint peeling off and plants growing all over the place. The condo in Thailand is made to look good just long enough to sell by the developer and then is allowed to fall apart.

The "associations" are made up of the condo owners. They only have themselves to blame.

[Misterwolf]

What is good living in a condo when in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

That depends a lot on where the condo is located. For example In our complex there are 3 resteraunts and a family mart as well as 2 bars.

You can also stock up on just about everything

The real differance is would you rather have the logistic problems and wet and miserable or high and dry? pretty simple really

The writer here is 100% correct, of course there will be a rush on condos

by the way there is no flooding in central BKK so location is important

Wouldnt these be more likely to be located on ground/lower floors and more likely to be flooded?

[zorro1]

What is good living in a condo when in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

That depends a lot on where the condo is located. For example In our complex there are 3 resteraunts and a family mart as well as 2 bars.

You can also stock up on just about everything

The real differance is would you rather have the logistic problems and wet and miserable or high and dry? pretty simple really

The writer here is 100% correct, of course there will be a rush on condos

by the way there is no flooding in central BKK so location is important

Wouldnt these be more likely to be located on ground/lower floors and more likely to be flooded?

Again depends where its located and doesn't really matter where in central BKK as its dry . A lot of hotels and condos have a "walk up" level and are not built flat on the street for obvious reasons. Ours is over 1 metre.

[khaan]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

Well, I suppose it'd be easier to step over my balcony into a water taxi than it would be for you to remember just where you left your submarine

Yeah ? but who needs a water taxi if you saw what I got stashed in my submarine

[lovelomsak]

A few years back In British Columbia province in Canada even with building codes they had a big problem with condos and mold and rot destroying the buildings. Whole condo buildings had to be opened up and repaired at great cost to the condo owners. Many people had to just walk away from their condo homes. If this can happen where there is building codes and no flooding, What do you think will happen to condos built here in Thailand with no codes and poor materials?I quess 15 years after they are built they will have to be evacuated for being unsafe to live in.

[Markaew]

I'd prefer to get flooded every now and again rather than live in a little box.

ditto

[zorro1]

Thailand with no codes and poor materials?I quess 15 years after they are built they will have to be evacuated for being unsafe to live in.

[soomak]

I would much rather live in a house and put up with the occassional floods here inThonburi than live in an 30 floor elevated dog kennel built by illegal immgrants using suspect buildng materials. What happens when you need supplies and have to go down stairs and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ?

If the power is cut you just use candles and/or torches. I'd rather live in a dry condo without power than in a house flooded up to waist/chest height. But if you prefer a house then you are very lucky, because there should be some bargains around at the moment.

Also, the condos people buy are more likely to be in non-flooded areas, so the problems you talk about are highly unlikely to happen. This is the worst flood for 50 years and central Bangkok is still dry. It doesn't mean floods will never affect it, but it means it's pretty safe from flooding. Also, water management is bound to be improves, so flooding will be even less likely.

Dog kennels are very small. Some condos are huge. Some houses are extremely small. So whether it's better to have a house or a condo depends on what size house or condo you buy/rent.

You could ask the same questions about a flooded house. What happens when you need supplies and have to go out and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ? Your questions are equally relevant to houses and condos, so no idea why you are aiming it at people who live in condos. It is obvious that condos have an advantage in floods because they stay dry. Whether you have a house or a condo is a personal choice. Houses suit some people and condos suit others.

Another advantage of condos, is that they have security.

So if the area is flooded, and you want to get out of the city for a while, you know that somebody is guarding your property.

If you leave your house for a week, it might get robbed.

[jybkk]

Aaah. The never-ending debate of house vs. apartment, of city vs. upcountry.

Well, newsflash, both have their advantages and inconvenients. It's just a matter of priorities and situation.

I currently live in a condo because it's the best way for me to spend less than half an hour to go to work. Because thanks to that I'm in the middle of the city where I can go out, meet a lot of friends and people, and all that without the burden of a car.

I'll probably shift to a house one day or another. When I need more rest and peace. Maybe also more space if I have kids. But that means I'll need to carefully choose the location, because my experience with thai residential areas is that they are pretty noisy.

What is more mind boggling for me is that many of my colleagues feel that they HAVE to have a house, even if it means they need to commute for more than an hour and a half each way, every day. What's the point of having something bigger if you just go sleep in it on weekdays and spend your weekend tackling the house chores you couldn't do during the week because you were too busy being stuck in the traffic?

I personally value time as much as I value space and calm,.

[xthAi76s]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

I would like to see/know the underlying reasoning behind this article. It seems a stretch to anticipate an upswing in condo living as a result of this flooding.

I am also interested to know what they think. I am in a business which requires me to study and to keep abreast of housing preferences in Bangkok. I think given the historical Thai propensity for true house ownership, I doubt this flooding will precipitate a huge upswing in condo ownership. It would seem in Bangkok, people live in condos overwhelmingly because they feel they have to. They are either students from outside of Bangkok who goto school in Bangkok and thus want to live closer to their schools. Perhaps they are families who need a temporary place in Bangkok in addition to their house(s) else because of work. Of course, many expats (like myself) like the 'convenience' of not having to tend to all the responsibilities of house ownership. My research has led me to believe that Thais almost always would prefer a house to a condo. Unlike a city like Tokyo or New York, Thai people are not trying to move into the center of the city to 'live the city life'.

My wife and I reside in a condo, and there are all kinds of issues with all but the most high-end condos here in Bangkok.

The building materials are woefully suspect. Maintenance is performed CONSTANTLY, but alas thing slowly deteriorate anyway. It's a well-known phenomenon here that the investment condo owners will generally sell their units or otherwise pull out after 4 or 5 years after which time it's quite well-known that the buildings begin to deteriorate. I have yet to see one (even on the higher-end like Sansiri north of 6 - 10 mil) that a properly constructed for the climate. The units end up being sauna/sweat boxes in this climate. The houses, on the other hand, are very often constructed with the necessary sensibilities to provide comfortable, open, airy, shady & cool living environments.

The thing that makes condos attractive in cities that people actually *want* to live in the middle of like NYC, Tokyo, Seoul, ect is that they are in the middle of those cities. Otherwise, people will most often want more space, not living on top of or below other people, a place where they can blast their bass-heavy music and drink and party without bothering (too many) people, etc. Condos are generally not pleasant as compared to houses. That is amplified here where they really are overpriced, very poorly constructed sweatboxes with nice signs in the front of the property and security guards who salute every time you pass...

Reason for edit: grammar

Edited November 9, 2011 by ThailandMan

[MrJohnson]

With land ownership laws and all, the issue may be moot for many people since only citizens may own land. However, I don't know how the average Thai would want to own a condo. The biggest problem I see is upkeep. Anywhere you go in BKK with older Condos, there just is no upkeep by the associations. Even places that aren't that old have the paint peeling off and plants growing all over the place. The condo in Thailand is made to look good just long enough to sell by the developer and then is allowed to fall apart.

Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. My condo is 15 years old and looks great. The management is very good, steered by an active and vigilant committee. The building has just undergone a major renovation - paid for by the owners. It likes new again. We do however have plants growing all over the place - it's called a garden.

[xthAi76s]

With land ownership laws and all, the issue may be moot for many people since only citizens may own land. However, I don't know how the average Thai would want to own a condo. The biggest problem I see is upkeep. Anywhere you go in BKK with older Condos, there just is no upkeep by the associations. Even places that aren't that old have the paint peeling off and plants growing all over the place. The condo in Thailand is made to look good just long enough to sell by the developer and then is allowed to fall apart.

Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. My condo is 15 years old and looks great. The management is very good, steered by an active and vigilant committee. The building has just undergone a major renovation - paid for by the owners. It likes new again. We do however have plants growing all over the place - it's called a garden.

Hey there. Glad to hear your condo is doing well. Yours would be more of an exception rather than the rule here in Bangkok. If you don't mind my asking (you might, of course) what developer is your condo under? I know the developer is only part of the story, but it helps to know.

Also, the 'you get what you pay for here' is probably not generally a very strong argument across a broad spectrum of topics, including home ownership. Even if just for the fact that there really are not a great deal of standards in building quality, pricing, etc, you will very often NOT get what you pay for, or, if you are lucky, get something you did NOT pay for. I've seen and considered the condos for 10 - 15+ mil (1 bedrooms) here, and many have the issues I've outlined in my last post. The biggest threat is that owners (a high percentage of whom if Thai/Chinese) will pull out after a couple years leaving the building with much lighter occupancy rates and putting the building at risk of poor maintenance and breakdown. Thais know things here are historically not keep up, so they have a tendency to want to buy ONLY new properties. Of course, this is a bit less likely to happen in the very, very desirable areas (Lumpini etc) because those areas have location drawing in new investors or keeping old investors.

[zorro1]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

I would like to see/know the underlying reasoning behind this article. It seems a stretch to anticipate an upswing in condo living as a result of this flooding.

I am also interested to know what they think. I am in a business which requires me to study and to keep abreast of housing preferences in Bangkok. I think given the historical Thai propensity for true house ownership, I doubt this flooding will precipitate a huge upswing in condo ownership. It would seem in Bangkok, people live in condos overwhelmingly because they feel they have to. They are either students from outside of Bangkok who goto school in Bangkok and thus want to live closer to their schools. Perhaps they are families who need a temporary place in Bangkok in addition to their house(s) else because of work. Of course, many expats (like myself) like the 'convenience' of not having to tend to all the responsibilities of house ownership. My research has led me to believe that Thais almost always would prefer a house to a condo. Unlike a city like Tokyo or New York, Thai people are not trying to move into the center of the city to 'live the city life'.

My wife and I reside in a condo, and there are all kinds of issues with all but the most high-end condos here in Bangkok.

The building materials are woefully suspect. Maintenance is performed CONSTANTLY, but alas thing slowly deteriorate anyway. It's a well-known phenomenon here that the investment condo owners will generally sell their units or otherwise pull out after 4 or 5 years after which time it's quite well-known that the buildings begin to deteriorate. I have yet to see one (even on the higher-end like Sansiri north of 6 - 10 mil) that a properly constructed for the climate. The units end up being sauna/sweat boxes in this climate. The houses, on the other hand, are very often constructed with the necessary sensibilities to provide comfortable, open, airy, shady & cool living environments.

The thing that makes condos attractive in cities that people actually *want* to live in the middle of like NYC, Tokyo, Seoul, ect is that they are in the middle of those cities. Otherwise, people will most often want more space, not living on top of or below other people, a place where they can blast their bass-heavy music and drink and party without bothering (too many) people, etc. Condos are generally not pleasant as compared to houses. That is amplified here where they really are overpriced, very poorly constructed sweatboxes with nice signs in the front of the property and security guards who salute every time you pass...

Reason for edit: grammar

"I doubt this flooding will precipitate a huge upswing in condo ownership"

You are wrong. Your whole post is nonsensical and based on a false belief.

plenty of townhouses flooding the market soon for obvious reasons (no pun)

.

Edited November 9, 2011 by zorro1