A Timely Reminder Of Our Ongoing Abuse Of Nature: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

A timely reminder of our ongoing abuse of nature

The Nation

This Loy Krathong festival should be used as an opportunity to clean up the environment rather than create more garbage that blocks waterways

During the upcoming Loy Krathong festival, Bangkokians should perhaps make a wish that we can clean up our natural and manmade waterways and that the city and nation will be able to recover quickly after the water finally recedes.

Instead of floating lotus-shaped krathongs made of Styrofoam, or even of natural materials, instead of putting any vessel into the river, Thais may well be advised to do the opposite. They should instead collect whatever is floating in the water.

Bangkokians are now facing a severe health threat from approximately three million tonnes of trash that has been left floating as a result of the deluge. People should thus think of more responsible, creative ways to celebrate this festive annual event.

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and relevant agencies are facing the huge challenge of getting rid of a huge volume of uncollected trash, together with the dirty flood water.

Treating this huge amount of uncollected daily waste, as well as dealing with the dirty water, will become one of the most difficult challenges in this crisis - one that perhaps has been overlooked so far. The clean-up mission has to be effectively started even before the post-flood clean-up begins. If this does not happen, it could lead to outbreaks of several unpleasant diseases.

Bangkok is home to 12 million people who produce a massive amount of trash, day in day out. The flood water now settled in many parts of the city and its perimeter has made it difficult to collect and treat garbage. In addition, Bangkok is now a destination for additional debris that is flowing down from flooded provinces further north.

About 9.4 million people in the city's flooded areas are expected to generate 500 kilograms of rubbish each over the course of a few weeks. In normal circumstances the BMA can collect only 8,700 tonnes of garbage a day. Now, however, Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra says the city authorities can collect only some 7,000 tonnes a day because even the garbage trucks find it difficult to negotiate flooded areas. In some districts, only 30 per cent of garbage, can be collected daily.

Trash and dirty water will become the sources of many waterborne diseases such as cholera, and irritations such as pink-eye and rashes. Unfortunately, agencies such as the Public Health Ministry have not given the public sufficient warning and advice on how to protect themselves from the diseases that can come with the floods. Another serious issue is possible contamination of the tap water supply and water resources for public use.

Unless people act responsibly during this year's Loy Krathong festival, instead of clear routes for floodwater to escape through, we could be faced with waterways full of all kinds of extra debris including plastic and paper, even wood and glass.

We could leave this task to the BMA alone. But communities should contribute by participating in a campaign to get rid of trash and garbage in waterways during this year's festival.

Agencies will have to work cooperatively - something we have seen little of so far during this disaster. If they do not, the public will suffer the consequences of bad sanitation.

An effective clean-up operation will also be a factor in restoring the confidence of foreign investors because - with so many people left unemployed by the deluge - this is an issue of critical concern. At the same time, the government and communities must heed the longer-term lessons that this crisis offers. The public must have greater awareness about sustainable consumption habits. The consequences of this flood have shown how people unnecessarily create extra garbage. The massive number of floating plastic bags in the dirty water is a glaring example.

Consumers should take this Loy Krathong festival to reflect on what we have done to our waterways and wider environment, and how we can recycle and reuse.

If we don't learn something from the flooding this year, our Loy Krathong festival will be meaningless. What's the point of celebrating Loy Krathong if we fail to be respectful to the water spirit?

-- The Nation 2011-11-10

[jaltsc]

In case anybody hasn't mentioned this: The AIR is also part of nature. How about doing something about the addiction Thais have for burning anything that is flammable and polluting the air to the point where emergency rooms see thousands of people coming in for respiratory issues. Plus, if all the natural matter were composted there would be more soil to absorb the excess water runoff, thereby helping to alleviate some of the flooding. Isn't is amazing how nature has the habit of biting you back in the ass when you abuse it. Word of advice: Be nice to nature and it will be nice to you. Screw with nature, it will screw you back a thousand times fold.

[hanuman2543]

There's a proverb that says: "When the last tree is cut, when the last river has been poisoned, when the last fish has been caught, then we will find out that we can't eat money."

[DocN]

There needs to be a general change in the habbits of each and every person living in this country.

This starts with the no- sense handout of plastic bags, straws and yoghurt spoons in supermarkets and convenient stores, over the absolutely horrendous energy waste game that will soon come up for Christmas and ends at factories just dumping all sorts of poisonous waste in every river that flows.

If I have EVER seen a "throw-away"-society, it is this one.

What about a recycle- system like in many European countries: you buy a can of coke for 20 Baht instead of 15...and when you return it, you will get your 5 Baht back.

But of course, you would have to educate people to think for themselves...

[Morgo]

In case anybody hasn't mentioned this: The AIR is also part of nature. How about doing something about the addiction Thais have for burning anything that is flammable and polluting the air to the point where emergency rooms see thousands of people coming in for respiratory issues. Plus, if all the natural matter were composted there would be more soil to absorb the excess water runoff, thereby helping to alleviate some of the flooding. Isn't is amazing how nature has the habit of biting you back in the ass when you abuse it. Word of advice: Be nice to nature and it will be nice to you. Screw with nature, it will screw you back a thousand times fold.

Couldn't agree more. Although a lot of those respiratory illnesses are also caused by the Thai's propensity for the cigarette. I also like to quote from the movie Apocalypse Now, "I love to wake up in the morning to the smell of burning plastic".

[rkidlad]

When I first came to Thailand, I dated a girl - as you do. We had lots of weird conversations that didn't make any sense. I would go along with them and nod and smile. I remember she said that in Bkk there were too many trees. I was thinking to myself "there are not enough trees". Anywho, I said "what's wrong with too many trees?' to which she replied "they use up too much oxygen, and they steal our air". I was confused. I just smiled, nodded and said "God dam_n them trees"

I'm no expert on mother nature, but I was always taught to respect it. I was always taught that mother nature is bigger than me. I should recycle, not waste, etc. I may be a completely insignificant bug in mother nature's plans, but everyone can make a small difference (good or bad).

We're all guests on this planet called Earth. If mother nature decides it, we can be forced to leave.

[lonewolf99]

Good Article.

Sadly the vast majority of people in Thailand will never read such a thing.

Re-educating 60 odd million people to stop throwing their crap into the water system is nearly impossible.

I have wondered how much of this "flood" problem is related to the quantity of rubbish that might be blocking drains and stopping the water from running off. I know it is the major cause of flooding in Pattaya / Jomtien and also lack of actual drains where I live.

I failed last night in trying to get the GF and 2 of her pals from going off to add more garbage into The Bay of Thailand. Fortunately she uses a banana tree Kratong and not one made from Polystyrene so it will break down naturally.

But really what the hell is the point of such actions in the first place. Religion should not be to the detriment of anything on the planet, people, trees or animals.

and as for trees "using oxygen"...I knew one woman that said where she lived she thought there was too many Lizards, but not now we get rid....

Edited November 10, 2011 by lonewolf99

[Tanaka]

There needs to be a general change in the habbits of each and every person living in this country.

This starts with the no- sense handout of plastic bags, straws and yoghurt spoons in supermarkets and convenient stores, over the absolutely horrendous energy waste game that will soon come up for Christmas and ends at factories just dumping all sorts of poisonous waste in every river that flows.

If I have EVER seen a "throw-away"-society, it is this one.

What about a recycle- system like in many European countries: you buy a can of coke for 20 Baht instead of 15...and when you return it, you will get your 5 Baht back.

But of course, you would have to educate people to think for themselves...

You are right. And therefore it is a non-starter in Thailand. The questions is how long can this go on before it blows up in their faces?

[01322521959]

Good Article.

Sadly the vast majority of people in Thailand will never read such a thing.

Re-educating 60 odd million people to stop throwing their crap into the water system is nearly impossible.

I have wondered how much of this "flood" problem is related to the quantity of rubbish that might be blocking drains and stopping the water from running off. I know it is the major cause of flooding in Pattaya / Jomtien and also lack of actual drains where I live.

I failed last night in trying to get the GF and 2 of her pals from going off to add more garbage into The Bay of Thailand. Fortunately she uses a banana tree Kratong and not one made from Polystyrene so it will break down naturally.

But really what the hell is the point of such actions in the first place. Religion should not be to the detriment of anything on the planet, people, trees or animals.

and as for trees "using oxygen"...I knew one woman that said where she lived she thought there was too many Lizards, but not now we get rid....

I always enjoy it when I go to 7/11 and hand the assistant my plastic bag. It would be funny, if not so serious, the number of times the girl will still try to put the stuff I've bought into a new bag. If that doesn't always happen, then i have to listen to them giggling or comments such as "narluck." To have my actions referred to as "lovely" at the age of 46 is a bit much. Having said all this, I was in the UK earlier this year and I think I was the only shopper with 2 big strong, white plastic bags which I always reuse both there and here in Thailand.

[MUYTHAI]

When I first came to Thailand, I dated a girl - as you do. We had lots of weird conversations that didn't make any sense. I would go along with them and nod and smile. I remember she said that in Bkk there were too many trees. I was thinking to myself "there are not enough trees". Anywho, I said "what's wrong with too many trees?' to which she replied "they use up too much oxygen, and they steal our air". I was confused. I just smiled, nodded and said "God dam_n them trees"

I'm no expert on mother nature, but I was always taught to respect it. I was always taught that mother nature is bigger than me. I should recycle, not waste, etc. I may be a completely insignificant bug in mother nature's plans, but everyone can make a small difference (good or bad).

We're all guests on this planet called Earth. If mother nature decides it, we can be forced to leave.

So why did you not tell her that she was incorrect and that trees 'breath in' carbon dioxide that is breathed out by Humans and then the trees transpire oxygen which is then breathed in by Humans? Trees produce oxygen. :jap:

[maidu]

and those whatchamakallems, those floating lantern things with a something burning at their base. If you tried one of those in California between June and September you'd be shot or go to jail. The good news is they're now usually made with a bamboo circular frame piece instead of plastic. The bad news is they're still strung with metal wire. Considering that one of those things comes to ground every 50 sq.meters (I've found 5 of them just on my personal property, and that's from the days BEFORE Loy Kratong). Weed eaters, in particular, hate finding wire in the grass. Could Thais find a degradable item to use in place of wire? Yes, but it requires innovative thinking, and that's a strain on the Thai brain.

Also, I read recently that one thing the Khmer Rouge did for fun, was go out on the Tanle Sap lake and shoot Mekong river dolphins. Now the dolphins are nearly extinct. If you didn't hate the KR before, that's reason enough on its own to hate them now.

[RickBradford]

http://nesaranews.bl...reen-thing.html

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, " That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right — our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store.

The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts — wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house — not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn.

We used a push mower that ran on human power.

We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

[rkidlad]

When I first came to Thailand, I dated a girl - as you do. We had lots of weird conversations that didn't make any sense. I would go along with them and nod and smile. I remember she said that in Bkk there were too many trees. I was thinking to myself "there are not enough trees". Anywho, I said "what's wrong with too many trees?' to which she replied "they use up too much oxygen, and they steal our air". I was confused. I just smiled, nodded and said "God dam_n them trees"

I'm no expert on mother nature, but I was always taught to respect it. I was always taught that mother nature is bigger than me. I should recycle, not waste, etc. I may be a completely insignificant bug in mother nature's plans, but everyone can make a small difference (good or bad).

We're all guests on this planet called Earth. If mother nature decides it, we can be forced to leave.

So why did you not tell her that she was incorrect and that trees 'breath in' carbon dioxide that is breathed out by Humans and then the trees transpire oxygen which is then breathed in by Humans? Trees produce oxygen. :jap:

Sure, I could have. Then we could have discussed the works of Chekhov. I'm sure both subjects would have been equally as foreign to her.

My point wasn't about her ignorance of dendrology. It was about her attitude towards nature and its place in Thai society.

Edited November 10, 2011 by rkidlad

[Latindancer]

How about doing something about the addiction Thais have for burning anything that is flammable and polluting the air to the point where emergency rooms see thousands of people coming in for respiratory issues.

I sent an email to the Ministry Of Public Health asking what I might be able to do about people in my area of Bangkok burning plastic. That was 3 months ago, and no reply. Various types of plastic release dioxin when burnt, by the way.

Maybe I should go and physically SEE them and ask for an answer ?

[katana]

There needs to be a general change in the habbits of each and every person living in this country.

This starts with the no- sense handout of plastic bags, straws and yoghurt spoons in supermarkets and convenient stores, over the absolutely horrendous energy waste game that will soon come up for Christmas and ends at factories just dumping all sorts of poisonous waste in every river that flows.

If I have EVER seen a "throw-away"-society, it is this one.

What about a recycle- system like in many European countries: you buy a can of coke for 20 Baht instead of 15...and when you return it, you will get your 5 Baht back.

But of course, you would have to educate people to think for themselves...

You are right. And therefore it is a non-starter in Thailand. The questions is how long can this go on before it blows up in their faces?

If they had a series of adverts encouraging recycling and green ways, with perhaps a member of the Royal family promoting and appearing in them, it may go some way to getting the message across. A bit like the 'sufficiency economy' was.

[sfbandung]

There needs to be a general change in the habbits of each and every person living in this country.

This starts with the no- sense handout of plastic bags, straws and yoghurt spoons in supermarkets and convenient stores, over the absolutely horrendous energy waste game that will soon come up for Christmas and ends at factories just dumping all sorts of poisonous waste in every river that flows.

If I have EVER seen a "throw-away"-society, it is this one.

What about a recycle- system like in many European countries: you buy a can of coke for 20 Baht instead of 15...and when you return it, you will get your 5 Baht back.

But of course, you would have to educate people to think for themselves...

You are right. And therefore it is a non-starter in Thailand. The questions is how long can this go on before it blows up in their faces?

If they had a series of adverts encouraging recycling and green ways, with perhaps a member of the Royal family promoting and appearing in them, it may go some way to getting the message across. A bit like the 'sufficiency economy' was.

An excellent suggestion. And I believe it's something HM would get behind. In Australia it took less than one generation for a complete change of attitude, to the extent that if you turf something out of your car these days you are highly likely to cop abuse at the next set of traffic lights.

The advertising is easy, because to even the most base imbecile it's obvious we can't keep buggering up the place for ever.

Reason for edit: Typos as usual

Edited November 10, 2011 by sfbandung

[kingoak]

http://nesaranews.bl...reen-thing.html

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, " That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right — our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store.

The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts — wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house — not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn.

We used a push mower that ran on human power.

We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

[rmacdon61]

Katana: If they had a series of adverts encouraging recycling and green ways, with perhaps a member of the Royal family promoting and appearing in them, it may go some way to getting the message across. A bit like the 'sufficiency economy' was.

Really excellent idea. Having been educated in science, I often look for the scientific way out, fail to think outside the box and Katana notes a "simple" direct way to go. Thais love the Royal Family and as all things undertake by the Royals, followed with great interest by all Thais. If enviromental cleanup were the "word of the day" from the King, I also believe the people would undertake it.

Well thought of Katana!!!

[cgphuket]

I live here and love this country, but most will admit that the Thai's in charge of this country have the intelligence and mentality of 12-year olds. How can you get children to take care of their environment?

[travelmann]

When I first came to Thailand, I dated a girl - as you do. We had lots of weird conversations that didn't make any sense. I would go along with them and nod and smile. I remember she said that in Bkk there were too many trees. I was thinking to myself "there are not enough trees". Anywho, I said "what's wrong with too many trees?' to which she replied "they use up too much oxygen, and they steal our air". I was confused. I just smiled, nodded and said "God dam_n them trees"

I'm no expert on mother nature, but I was always taught to respect it. I was always taught that mother nature is bigger than me. I should recycle, not waste, etc. I may be a completely insignificant bug in mother nature's plans, but everyone can make a small difference (good or bad).

We're all guests on this planet called Earth. If mother nature decides it, we can be forced to leave.

So why did you not tell her that she was incorrect and that trees 'breath in' carbon dioxide that is breathed out by Humans and then the trees transpire oxygen which is then breathed in by Humans? Trees produce oxygen. :jap:

Thai no best .Thai treee different...............no really!!!

[travelmann]

There needs to be a general change in the habbits of each and every person living in this country.

This starts with the no- sense handout of plastic bags, straws and yoghurt spoons in supermarkets and convenient stores, over the absolutely horrendous energy waste game that will soon come up for Christmas and ends at factories just dumping all sorts of poisonous waste in every river that flows.

If I have EVER seen a "throw-away"-society, it is this one.

What about a recycle- system like in many European countries: you buy a can of coke for 20 Baht instead of 15...and when you return it, you will get your 5 Baht back.

But of course, you would have to educate people to think for themselves...

You are right. And therefore it is a non-starter in Thailand. The questions is how long can this go on before it blows up in their faces?

If they had a series of adverts encouraging recycling and green ways, with perhaps a member of the Royal family promoting and appearing in them, it may go some way to getting the message across. A bit like the 'sufficiency economy' was.

An excellent suggestion. And I believe it's something HM would get behind. In Australia it took less than one generation for a complete change of attitude, to the extent that if you turf something out of your car these days you are highly likely to cop abuse at the next set of traffic lights.

The advertising is easy, because to even the most base imbecile it's obvious we can't keep buggering up the place for ever.

Reason for edit: Typos as usual

You fail to understand the "base" imbecile simply DOES NOT CARE.

[sfbandung]

There needs to be a general change in the habbits of each and every person living in this country.

This starts with the no- sense handout of plastic bags, straws and yoghurt spoons in supermarkets and convenient stores, over the absolutely horrendous energy waste game that will soon come up for Christmas and ends at factories just dumping all sorts of poisonous waste in every river that flows.

If I have EVER seen a "throw-away"-society, it is this one.

What about a recycle- system like in many European countries: you buy a can of coke for 20 Baht instead of 15...and when you return it, you will get your 5 Baht back.

But of course, you would have to educate people to think for themselves...

If they had a series of adverts encouraging recycling and green ways, with perhaps a member of the Royal family promoting and appearing in them, it may go some way to getting the message across. A bit like the 'sufficiency economy' was.

You fail to understand the "base" imbecile simply DOES NOT CARE.

So don't bother even trying?