PAD Threatens Protest If Thai Govt Continues Amnesty Push

[whybother]

A picture speaks more than a thousand words. Take a look at them, I posted them above.

OK. You've confirmed that you know nothing about the protests.

[marinediscoking]

The pictures do show the truth that I remember. The PAD thugs on the perimeters and the granny"s with clappers in the center, at least that's what was shown on the local TV stations.

[MAJIC]

nationnews RT @tulsathit: Thaksin told Reuters he knew nothing about the amnesty decree because it was discussed at closed-door Cabinet meeting.

He is a born liar!!!

PTP motto; "What Thaksin thinks PTP will accomplish!

Or a serial stranger to the Truth?

Edited November 18, 2011 by MAJIC

[TAWP]

The PAD has been under appreciated for the service they did for the country. They are about to be appreciated again. I didn't necessarily agree with their methods, but having seen how much worse the reds were, I guess the ground rules are now set as to how this game will be played.

If I'm the PAD I'm going to go after sea ports and railways this time. Bring the import/export market to its knees. Given the floods have already crippled industry the damage there will be minimized, but killing the supply chains will have a dramatic effect on the population. Force the government to look incompetent or fire first. Then the yellows become the oppressed demonstrators, and the civil war can begin between the red government and the yellow freedom fighters.

Your post is a slap in the face for all Thais that have suffered under the childish actions of the PAD. Tens of thousands have lost their jobs and due to the closure of the main international airport, the tourism sector has taken damage that will take years if not decades to fully repair.

Destroying the import/export market, preventing the country from recovering from the floods, then forcing the government to shoot at its own people ..? Seriously. Someone suggesting things like that needs to go for a check-up. What you're suggesting is illegal to say the least.

Freedom fighters? Service for the country? What you're suggesting is a blueprint to destroy Thailand.

Give me a break!

Your post is the typical garbage one gets to read here sometimes.

People sitting in an airport for 2 weeks = ten thousands of jobs allegedly lost and tourism suffer in ways that will take years to rebuild.

Armed hood-lings occupying a central street for over a month while clashing with police and military, burning buildings and a off-shoot terrorist-cell carrying out multiple bombings throughout the capital = no effect.

You are not hired as an analyst, that is for sure.

[JAG]

And you clearly didn't read past the first line of his post!

[TAWP]

And you clearly didn't read past the first line of his post!

Uh, nothing in my post indicates I didn't. I didn't want to edit his post (as some posters complain about this) to highlight the obvious nonsense I was voicing opposition against. I thought it was self-evident.

[Buchholz]

A picture speaks more than a thousand words. Take a look at them, I posted them above.

You should have read Post # 69 first.

or read the bottom of your own Post # 57

.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[tlansford]

The PAD has been under appreciated for the service they did for the country. They are about to be appreciated again. I didn't necessarily agree with their methods, but having seen how much worse the reds were, I guess the ground rules are now set as to how this game will be played.

If I'm the PAD I'm going to go after sea ports and railways this time. Bring the import/export market to its knees. Given the floods have already crippled industry the damage there will be minimized, but killing the supply chains will have a dramatic effect on the population. Force the government to look incompetent or fire first. Then the yellows become the oppressed demonstrators, and the civil war can begin between the red government and the yellow freedom fighters.

Your post is a slap in the face for all Thais that have suffered under the childish actions of the PAD. Tens of thousands have lost their jobs and due to the closure of the main international airport, the tourism sector has taken damage that will take years if not decades to fully repair.

Destroying the import/export market, preventing the country from recovering from the floods, then forcing the government to shoot at its own people ..? Seriously. Someone suggesting things like that needs to go for a check-up. What you're suggesting is illegal to say the least.

Freedom fighters? Service for the country? What you're suggesting is a blueprint to destroy Thailand.

Give me a break!

Your post is the typical garbage one gets to read here sometimes.

People sitting in an airport for 2 weeks = ten thousands of jobs allegedly lost and tourism suffer in ways that will take years to rebuild.

Armed hood-lings occupying a central street for over a month while clashing with police and military, burning buildings and a off-shoot terrorist-cell carrying out multiple bombings throughout the capital = no effect.

You are not hired as an analyst, that is for sure.

TAWP, surely you remember that the PAD had been protesting for months. The airport occupation not only shut down all traffic in / out - but that was exactly 3 years ago in Nov/Dec. How long was the PAD in the Govt house? That was already in August of 2008. And whatever you might want to say, it had an impact on tourism not unlike the current flooding. Not bad for a handful of brightly colored protesters, eh? I'm not going to go down the road of which group killed how many and which was worse, but someone here already talked about people singing patriotic songs as if it were a big picnic at BKK, but you know as well as I do that the PAD was extremely violent and people were not only beaten but killed by the PAD, too.

People can argue that the Red Shirt were violent, but the same can be said of the PAD, as well as the actions of the military.

More to the point - If mrfarang disagrees with gregb for proposing a PAD strategy designed to incite violent conflict leading to civil war, who are you to call mrfarang's post "garbage"? (unless you too are a fan of civil wars, of course...)

Edited November 18, 2011 by tlansford

[Steely Dan]

TAWP, surely you remember that the PAD had been protesting for months. The airport occupation not only shut down all traffic in / out - but that was exactly 3 years ago in Nov/Dec. How long was the PAD in the Govt house? That was already in August of 2008. And whatever you might want to say, it had an impact on tourism not unlike the current flooding. Not bad for a handful of brightly colored protesters, eh? I'm not going to go down the road of which group killed how many and which was worse, but someone here already talked about people singing patriotic songs as if it were a big picnic at BKK, but you know as well as I do that the PAD was extremely violent and people were not only beaten but killed by the PAD, too.

People can argue that the Red Shirt were violent, but the same can be said of the PAD, as well as the actions of the military.

More to the point - If mrfarang disagrees with gregb for proposing a PAD strategy designed to incite violent conflict leading to civil war, who are you to call mrfarang's post "garbage"? (unless you too are a fan of civil wars, of course...)

It's more than a bit of a stretch to attempt to make moral equivalence arguments between PAD and the red shirts. How many buildings did PAD burn down and indeed how many innocent bystanders were killed by stray bullets or rocket launched grenades going off in the center of the city? The PAD security were no doubt no angels but their presence I do recall was to try and combat the frequent attacks upon the PAD rallies by armed red thugs. The reds on the other hand were armed to intimidate and not in self defense. Then we come to damage to tourism or the economy. Undeniably the airport occupation had a large cost, but had the reds occupied the airport they would have burnt it to the ground whilst encouraged to do so by their so called leaders hiding behind parliamentary immunity - that's if their trips to central Bangkok were any guide when they arrived mob handed with bottles of petrol.

[dave111223]

The PAD has been under appreciated for the service they did for the country. They are about to be appreciated again. I didn't necessarily agree with their methods, but having seen how much worse the reds were, I guess the ground rules are now set as to how this game will be played.

If I'm the PAD I'm going to go after sea ports and railways this time. Bring the import/export market to its knees. Given the floods have already crippled industry the damage there will be minimized, but killing the supply chains will have a dramatic effect on the population. Force the government to look incompetent or fire first. Then the yellows become the oppressed demonstrators, and the civil war can begin between the red government and the yellow freedom fighters.

I hope their next move is to go through the mail ripping up pension checks and burning bed pans; maybe then some of the armchair analysts on here wouldn't be baying for blood so loudly.

Seriously why would you support any group that does damage to innocent 3rd parties to further their cause (whatever color shirt they are wearing)?

Edited November 19, 2011 by dave111223

[gregb]

The PAD has been under appreciated for the service they did for the country. They are about to be appreciated again. I didn't necessarily agree with their methods, but having seen how much worse the reds were, I guess the ground rules are now set as to how this game will be played.

If I'm the PAD I'm going to go after sea ports and railways this time. Bring the import/export market to its knees. Given the floods have already crippled industry the damage there will be minimized, but killing the supply chains will have a dramatic effect on the population. Force the government to look incompetent or fire first. Then the yellows become the oppressed demonstrators, and the civil war can begin between the red government and the yellow freedom fighters.

Your post is a slap in the face for all Thais that have suffered under the childish actions of the PAD. Tens of thousands have lost their jobs and due to the closure of the main international airport, the tourism sector has taken damage that will take years if not decades to fully repair.

Destroying the import/export market, preventing the country from recovering from the floods, then forcing the government to shoot at its own people ..? Seriously. Someone suggesting things like that needs to go for a check-up. What you're suggesting is illegal to say the least.

Freedom fighters? Service for the country? What you're suggesting is a blueprint to destroy Thailand.

Give me a break!

Your post is the typical garbage one gets to read here sometimes.

People sitting in an airport for 2 weeks = ten thousands of jobs allegedly lost and tourism suffer in ways that will take years to rebuild.

Armed hood-lings occupying a central street for over a month while clashing with police and military, burning buildings and a off-shoot terrorist-cell carrying out multiple bombings throughout the capital = no effect.

You are not hired as an analyst, that is for sure.

TAWP, surely you remember that the PAD had been protesting for months. The airport occupation not only shut down all traffic in / out - but that was exactly 3 years ago in Nov/Dec. How long was the PAD in the Govt house? That was already in August of 2008. And whatever you might want to say, it had an impact on tourism not unlike the current flooding. Not bad for a handful of brightly colored protesters, eh? I'm not going to go down the road of which group killed how many and which was worse, but someone here already talked about people singing patriotic songs as if it were a big picnic at BKK, but you know as well as I do that the PAD was extremely violent and people were not only beaten but killed by the PAD, too.

People can argue that the Red Shirt were violent, but the same can be said of the PAD, as well as the actions of the military.

More to the point - If mrfarang disagrees with gregb for proposing a PAD strategy designed to incite violent conflict leading to civil war, who are you to call mrfarang's post "garbage"? (unless you too are a fan of civil wars, of course...)

Who else are you implying is a fan of civil war. Certainly not me. I am simply trying to get the red support brigade to realize how deadly this amnesty action is going to be. You honestly think the rest of the country that understands how evil Thaksin is will simply take this lying down?

Civil war is coming not because anyone wants it, but because there is little else the red terrorists will understand and accept. Civil war will be terrible. It can be avoided by removing Thaksin. There is no other way.

[sparebox2]

Rumour is that the PAD has booked mobile toilets.

Could be a long protest.

[Scott]

A series of off-topic and mildly inflammatory posts have been removed.

Let's keep the discussion on the current issue. A rehash of previous actions by PAD, Hitler, Pol Pot and WWII are not germane to the discussion.

Your opinions and thoughts are welcomed, but please comment on the OP and not other posters.

[hammered]

Who else are you implying is a fan of civil war. Certainly not me. I am simply trying to get the red support brigade to realize how deadly this amnesty action is going to be. You honestly think the rest of the country that understands how evil Thaksin is will simply take this lying down?

Civil war is coming not because anyone wants it, but because there is little else the red terrorists will understand and accept. Civil war will be terrible. It can be avoided by removing Thaksin. There is no other way.

The red movement is massive and growing. To not accomodate them will be an utter disaster. Most people in this country either want Thaksin back or dont care. Only the smallest group want him to remain out at all costs. He is coming back unless those who despise him can frighten enough of those who dont care into thinking it is going to be hideously violent. That is how realpolitik works in what has become a violent zero sum game from all sides. The government who won the election do not have to scare anyone much as they have at least a vague mandate to enact reconcilliation as they see it. Their opponents lost the arguement and election when they pushed their version of reconcilliation which was rejected. Everyone in the country knew that electing PTP would result in at least an attempt to bring Thaksin back. That is popular with a lot and many dont even think it matters what happens.

That is reality that the anti-Thaksinistas do not want shown. Most people either like the guy or think there are far more important issues. Thaksin is mainly an issue in a very vicious intra-elite war where everyone in the elite has been forced to take sides, that has been complicated by Thaksin very skillfully positioning himself as the accepted champion of those who for too long have not been given a fair opportunity, see the law as always used against them and their kind, are sick of traditional Thai politics and parties and who are wanting change. The real disaster is by fighting Thaksin to utterly alienate this huge mass who are increasingly sympathetic to the red movement that in many ways is well more extreme than Thaksin. Where do this group go if their champion is removed? They certainly aint going anywhere near the Dems or other tradional manipulative parties and to remove a more modern manipulative party that can moderate where it all goes could well be the ultimate disaster. This is now about placating the demands of the many and as we have seen they will not accept the party of their betters doing this even with the biggest debt funded bunch of populist policies that the country has ever seen. So it seems to be either accomodate Thaksin or use massive authoritarianism and repression to keep the people down with no guarantee it will work. To date with every disolution, legal decision, coup, manouver, governmental change the red movement has just grown stronger. The politics of dealing with Thaksin has been a case study in how not to do things and exposed a world where those who used to pull strings and control and manage everything are still playing by their set of rules while the majority of the country, and I mean not only PTP voters, are not. Thailand has changed and is changing still where it will end up who knows but it is going to go way beyond Thaksin now and more and more Thai people see this

[rubl]

The red movement is massive and growing. To not accomodate them will be an utter disaster. Most people in this country either want Thaksin back or dont care. Only the smallest group want him to remain out at all costs. He is coming back unless those who despise him can frighten enough of those who dont care into thinking it is going to be hideously violent. That is how realpolitik works in what has become a violent zero sum game from all sides. The government who won the election do not have to scare anyone much as they have at least a vague mandate to enact reconcilliation as they see it. Their opponents lost the arguement and election when they pushed their version of reconcilliation which was rejected. Everyone in the country knew that electing PTP would result in at least an attempt to bring Thaksin back. That is popular with a lot and many dont even think it matters what happens.

That is reality that the anti-Thaksinistas do not want shown. Most people either like the guy or think there are far more important issues. Thaksin is mainly an issue in a very vicious intra-elite war where everyone in the elite has been forced to take sides, that has been complicated by Thaksin very skillfully positioning himself as the accepted champion of those who for too long have not been given a fair opportunity, see the law as always used against them and their kind, are sick of traditional Thai politics and parties and who are wanting change. The real disaster is by fighting Thaksin to utterly alienate this huge mass who are increasingly sympathetic to the red movement that in many ways is well more extreme than Thaksin. Where do this group go if their champion is removed? They certainly aint going anywhere near the Dems or other tradional manipulative parties and to remove a more modern manipulative party that can moderate where it all goes could well be the ultimate disaster. This is now about placating the demands of the many and as we have seen they will not accept the party of their betters doing this even with the biggest debt funded bunch of populist policies that the country has ever seen. So it seems to be either accomodate Thaksin or use massive authoritarianism and repression to keep the people down with no guarantee it will work. To date with every disolution, legal decision, coup, manouver, governmental change the red movement has just grown stronger. The politics of dealing with Thaksin has been a case study in how not to do things and exposed a world where those who used to pull strings and control and manage everything are still playing by their set of rules while the majority of the country, and I mean not only PTP voters, are not. Thailand has changed and is changing still where it will end up who knows but it is going to go way beyond Thaksin now and more and more Thai people see this

From another topic:

"Thaksin is a an exceedingly clever politician playing a long game.

Interesting that "leading figures" is mentioned. That should undercut what is said with the people. "leading figures" dictating everything without any consideration for the lesser or what they think is one thing that seems a lot less accepted than it used to be"

[hammered]

Rumour is that the PAD has booked mobile toilets.

Could be a long protest.

The big problem the PAD have with a long protest is that as soon as the decree is passed on if it actually is and I have my doubts or at least in a Thaksin unfettered way, they can be accused of trying to influence the decision which is a very difficult place to be as they then either have to accept the accusation and continue or step back and show respect. If they continue the reds can use it as justification to hold a counter demo in favour. That whole scenario gets very messy indeed.

[AleG]

Who else are you implying is a fan of civil war. Certainly not me. I am simply trying to get the red support brigade to realize how deadly this amnesty action is going to be. You honestly think the rest of the country that understands how evil Thaksin is will simply take this lying down?

Civil war is coming not because anyone wants it, but because there is little else the red terrorists will understand and accept. Civil war will be terrible. It can be avoided by removing Thaksin. There is no other way.

The red movement is massive and growing. To not accomodate them will be an utter disaster. Most people in this country either want Thaksin back or dont care. Only the smallest group want him to remain out at all costs. He is coming back unless those who despise him can frighten enough of those who dont care into thinking it is going to be hideously violent. That is how realpolitik works in what has become a violent zero sum game from all sides. The government who won the election do not have to scare anyone much as they have at least a vague mandate to enact reconcilliation as they see it. Their opponents lost the arguement and election when they pushed their version of reconcilliation which was rejected. Everyone in the country knew that electing PTP would result in at least an attempt to bring Thaksin back. That is popular with a lot and many dont even think it matters what happens.

That is reality that the anti-Thaksinistas do not want shown. Most people either like the guy or think there are far more important issues. Thaksin is mainly an issue in a very vicious intra-elite war where everyone in the elite has been forced to take sides, that has been complicated by Thaksin very skillfully positioning himself as the accepted champion of those who for too long have not been given a fair opportunity, see the law as always used against them and their kind, are sick of traditional Thai politics and parties and who are wanting change. The real disaster is by fighting Thaksin to utterly alienate this huge mass who are increasingly sympathetic to the red movement that in many ways is well more extreme than Thaksin. Where do this group go if their champion is removed? They certainly aint going anywhere near the Dems or other tradional manipulative parties and to remove a more modern manipulative party that can moderate where it all goes could well be the ultimate disaster. This is now about placating the demands of the many and as we have seen they will not accept the party of their betters doing this even with the biggest debt funded bunch of populist policies that the country has ever seen. So it seems to be either accomodate Thaksin or use massive authoritarianism and repression to keep the people down with no guarantee it will work. To date with every disolution, legal decision, coup, manouver, governmental change the red movement has just grown stronger. The politics of dealing with Thaksin has been a case study in how not to do things and exposed a world where those who used to pull strings and control and manage everything are still playing by their set of rules while the majority of the country, and I mean not only PTP voters, are not. Thailand has changed and is changing still where it will end up who knows but it is going to go way beyond Thaksin now and more and more Thai people see this

Thaksin in Thailand, running the place for his own benefit is anathema to reconciliation. People can ask for reconciliation or Thaksin, it's one or the other because they are mutually exclusive.

The moment Thaksin and his proxies remove their sticky fingers from the country is the moment Thais can begin to aspire to mend their society.

[DocN]

It seems to be the only choice.

I feel sorry for the PAD members...hard month to come and many will be killed by the criminal government.

Geriatric terrorists. Them army snipers have had no practice for a while. If its good for them red oiks its good for the yellow cronies. If Sondhi is serious and the yellows set up camp, take over airports, block up the city even burn buildings not one army trigger will be pulled.

with burning buildings they would get a trademark lawsuit from the red shirts.

Yellow: sit in at the airport, singing patriotic songs, anti-smoke-drink-gamble propaganda, promoting democracy...

Red: shooting with AKA47, M79, burning buildings beating people to death, commies propaganda, promoting Thaksin...

hmm hard to choose.....

Yeah...with the Pad it was all a happy gathering, with music, food, cultural dances, democracy lectures and not at all violent or - god forbid- illegal! PAD are the good shepherds of Thailand.

Man...crack pipe...down...NOW!

[PattaniMan]

The red movement is massive and growing.

Says who? Any sources? Any figures? Current membership? Percentage growth over the last 12 months?

Most people in this country either want Thaksin back or dont care.

Says who? Any sources?

To date with every disolution, legal decision, coup, manouver, governmental change the red movement has just grown stronger.

The "red movement" didn't exist prior to the most recent coup.

[DocN]

Nothing like a common enemy to rally the troops... this should bolster the PAD quite a bit.

To be honest, as much as I despise T. and also this predictable, sleazy, and obvious maneuver of his old cronies in the government - the PAD isn't much better than the red mob. Too much nationalism, too much "back to the old" sentiment in the PAD. The PADs proposed "solution" to the problem that the reds keep winning election was actually to abolish elections... or to only allow certain people to vote... their crazy actions around the temple didn't impress much either...

+1

[DocN]

TAWP, surely you remember that the PAD had been protesting for months. The airport occupation not only shut down all traffic in / out - but that was exactly 3 years ago in Nov/Dec. How long was the PAD in the Govt house? That was already in August of 2008. And whatever you might want to say, it had an impact on tourism not unlike the current flooding. Not bad for a handful of brightly colored protesters, eh? I'm not going to go down the road of which group killed how many and which was worse, but someone here already talked about people singing patriotic songs as if it were a big picnic at BKK, but you know as well as I do that the PAD was extremely violent and people were not only beaten but killed by the PAD, too.

People can argue that the Red Shirt were violent, but the same can be said of the PAD, as well as the actions of the military.

More to the point - If mrfarang disagrees with gregb for proposing a PAD strategy designed to incite violent conflict leading to civil war, who are you to call mrfarang's post "garbage"? (unless you too are a fan of civil wars, of course...)

It's more than a bit of a stretch to attempt to make moral equivalence arguments between PAD and the red shirts. How many buildings did PAD burn down and indeed how many innocent bystanders were killed by stray bullets or rocket launched grenades going off in the center of the city? The PAD security were no doubt no angels but their presence I do recall was to try and combat the frequent attacks upon the PAD rallies by armed red thugs. The reds on the other hand were armed to intimidate and not in self defense. Then we come to damage to tourism or the economy. Undeniably the airport occupation had a large cost, but had the reds occupied the airport they would have burnt it to the ground whilst encouraged to do so by their so called leaders hiding behind parliamentary immunity - that's if their trips to central Bangkok were any guide when they arrived mob handed with bottles of petrol.

Is this the typical pi@@ing game? The Olympics for extremely bad people? Who shot more? Who was more violent?

PAD occupied the Government House, left it robbed of chairs and computer...oh...and government files. (reported in that other newspaper, which is not really pro- red!)

They went to occupied 3 (! ) international airports (Phuket is international, too!) Many lost their jobs (I should know...I was one of them!) and actually people were killed an injured.

Anyone who wants to turn THAT into a peaceful picnic of democracy lovers...be my guests.

2 years of violent (and completely braindead) protest of the UDD should not make anyone forget, what was going on with the PAD.

[whybother]

PM says Thailand will benefit from ASEAN Summit

BANGKOK, Nov 19 -- Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Saturday said Thailand would benefit from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) summit while political stability would return Thailand to a leading role in ASEAN again.

Pity that the political situation won't be that stable if the government continue with Thaksin's pardon.

[Buchholz]

People can argue that the Red Shirt were violent, but the same can be said of the PAD, as well as the actions of the military.

It's more than a bit of a stretch to attempt to make moral equivalence arguments between PAD and the red shirts. How many buildings did PAD burn down and indeed how many innocent bystanders were killed by stray bullets or rocket launched grenades going off in the center of the city? The PAD security were no doubt no angels but their presence I do recall was to try and combat the frequent attacks upon the PAD rallies by armed red thugs. The reds on the other hand were armed to intimidate and not in self defense. Then we come to damage to tourism or the economy. Undeniably the airport occupation had a large cost, but had the reds occupied the airport they would have burnt it to the ground whilst encouraged to do so by their so called leaders hiding behind parliamentary immunity - that's if their trips to central Bangkok were any guide when they arrived mob handed with bottles of petrol.

Thanks for posting the reality of the large differences in the actions, tactics, and consequences of the two groups.

It's always amazing to see posts feebly attempting to liken the two groups in those regards when the differences are so glaring.

.

[Buchholz]

Is this the typical pi@@ing game? The Olympics for extremely bad people? Who shot more? Who was more violent?

PAD occupied the Government House, left it robbed of chairs and computer...oh...and government files. (reported in that other newspaper, which is not really pro- red!)

They went to occupied 3 (! ) international airports (Phuket is international, too!) Many lost their jobs (I should know...I was one of them!) and actually people were killed an injured.

Anyone who wants to turn THAT into a peaceful picnic of democracy lovers...be my guests.

2 years of violent (and completely braindead) protest of the UDD should not make anyone forget, what was going on with the PAD.

Complain about a "pissing game" by other posters and then you jump right in with your own.

Then you attempt to correlate missing desk chairs equating with burning down the largest mall in Southeast Asia.

good material... but no sale.

It's ridiculousness like that shines the light brightly on the Red Shirts. It does demonstrate why there are repeated efforts to group both of their actions as equal. It's easy to understand why they would so often be so eager to do that when their own Red Shirts transgressions are so much worse.

btw, no one is saying that PAD was completely peaceful including the SteelyDan post you quoted. The only ones that use that exaggeration are anti-PAD's.

I am, however, sorry that you've lost your job. It goes a long way in understanding your aggravation.

.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Buchholz

[hanuman1]

Who else are you implying is a fan of civil war. Certainly not me. I am simply trying to get the red support brigade to realize how deadly this amnesty action is going to be. You honestly think the rest of the country that understands how evil Thaksin is will simply take this lying down?

Civil war is coming not because anyone wants it, but because there is little else the red terrorists will understand and accept. Civil war will be terrible. It can be avoided by removing Thaksin. There is no other way.

The red movement is massive and growing. To not accomodate them will be an utter disaster. Most people in this country either want Thaksin back or dont care. Only the smallest group want him to remain out at all costs. He is coming back unless those who despise him can frighten enough of those who dont care into thinking it is going to be hideously violent. That is how realpolitik works in what has become a violent zero sum game from all sides. The government who won the election do not have to scare anyone much as they have at least a vague mandate to enact reconcilliation as they see it. Their opponents lost the arguement and election when they pushed their version of reconcilliation which was rejected. Everyone in the country knew that electing PTP would result in at least an attempt to bring Thaksin back. That is popular with a lot and many dont even think it matters what happens.

That is reality that the anti-Thaksinistas do not want shown. Most people either like the guy or think there are far more important issues. Thaksin is mainly an issue in a very vicious intra-elite war where everyone in the elite has been forced to take sides, that has been complicated by Thaksin very skillfully positioning himself as the accepted champion of those who for too long have not been given a fair opportunity, see the law as always used against them and their kind, are sick of traditional Thai politics and parties and who are wanting change. The real disaster is by fighting Thaksin to utterly alienate this huge mass who are increasingly sympathetic to the red movement that in many ways is well more extreme than Thaksin. Where do this group go if their champion is removed? They certainly aint going anywhere near the Dems or other tradional manipulative parties and to remove a more modern manipulative party that can moderate where it all goes could well be the ultimate disaster. This is now about placating the demands of the many and as we have seen they will not accept the party of their betters doing this even with the biggest debt funded bunch of populist policies that the country has ever seen. So it seems to be either accomodate Thaksin or use massive authoritarianism and repression to keep the people down with no guarantee it will work. To date with every disolution, legal decision, coup, manouver, governmental change the red movement has just grown stronger. The politics of dealing with Thaksin has been a case study in how not to do things and exposed a world where those who used to pull strings and control and manage everything are still playing by their set of rules while the majority of the country, and I mean not only PTP voters, are not. Thailand has changed and is changing still where it will end up who knows but it is going to go way beyond Thaksin now and more and more Thai people see this

+1 Thanks for that. Agree totally. Again.

[Credo]

+1 more Hammered. It's nice to know that I really don't have to care about the man.

[tlansford]

Rumour is that the PAD has booked mobile toilets.

Could be a long protest.

Are they from Japan, by chance?

[tlansford]

People can argue that the Red Shirt were violent, but the same can be said of the PAD, as well as the actions of the military.

It's more than a bit of a stretch to attempt to make moral equivalence arguments between PAD and the red shirts. How many buildings did PAD burn down and indeed how many innocent bystanders were killed by stray bullets or rocket launched grenades going off in the center of the city? The PAD security were no doubt no angels but their presence I do recall was to try and combat the frequent attacks upon the PAD rallies by armed red thugs. The reds on the other hand were armed to intimidate and not in self defense. Then we come to damage to tourism or the economy. Undeniably the airport occupation had a large cost, but had the reds occupied the airport they would have burnt it to the ground whilst encouraged to do so by their so called leaders hiding behind parliamentary immunity - that's if their trips to central Bangkok were any guide when they arrived mob handed with bottles of petrol.

Thanks for posting the reality of the large differences in the actions, tactics, and consequences of the two groups.

It's always amazing to see posts feebly attempting to liken the two groups in those regards when the differences are so glaring.

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I know that you know your red/yellow history better than that to claim the above.

The protesting since the coup, by all sides, has been sincere on one hand, and has had elements of violence on the other hand.

The level of violence has been increasing incrementally with each year. Hopefully this will not continue to be the case. You may recall that it was, in fact the PAD who first began arming themselves in their protests which got this vicious circle started.

[h90]

It seems to be the only choice.

I feel sorry for the PAD members...hard month to come and many will be killed by the criminal government.

Geriatric terrorists. Them army snipers have had no practice for a while. If its good for them red oiks its good for the yellow cronies. If Sondhi is serious and the yellows set up camp, take over airports, block up the city even burn buildings not one army trigger will be pulled.

with burning buildings they would get a trademark lawsuit from the red shirts.

Yellow: sit in at the airport, singing patriotic songs, anti-smoke-drink-gamble propaganda, promoting democracy...

Red: shooting with AKA47, M79, burning buildings beating people to death, commies propaganda, promoting Thaksin...

hmm hard to choose.....

Yeah...with the Pad it was all a happy gathering, with music, food, cultural dances, democracy lectures and not at all violent or - god forbid- illegal! PAD are the good shepherds of Thailand.

Man...crack pipe...down...NOW!

right so it was....been there several times and been very critic.....

[h90]

You may recall that it was, in fact the PAD who first began arming themselves in their protests which got this vicious circle started.

It's the Red Shirts who introduced and made use of war weapons in their protests.

No before the nightly attacks on the PAD by M79 grenades.

Actually these attacks were the reason to go to the airports, because sitting and every night one person dies doesn't help.