Successful Relationships With Thai Women

[onionluke]

The workers must be housed .

[theblether]

The workers must be housed .

Correct.......more green belt disappearing, more deforestation, et al.

[theblether]

So - you mean they're moving factories, not "new urbanization".

Well maybe I overstated the case for not wanting to be agrarian any more, so I'll partly retract that. However it is most certainly the case that Thailand is looking to become less dependent on agriculture in relation to it's overall GDP. Thailand is certainly looking to expand it's industrial base, and quite frankly given the plans being offered up by the Chinese amongst others, it will most likely see an acceleration in industrial output, and will see a haemorrhaging of people from the countryside into the new urban sprawl.

You've got a cheek talking about the riots in the UK, did you not see the carnage in Bangkok? I think the UK is far more stable that a certain other place that springs to mind. You really need to get off this high horse your in regards to the West, it's not as bad as you make out, far from it in fact.

I'm pleased your family is strong and stable, luckily mine is too so let me possibly be the first to wish you and your family a Merry Xmas

[garrfeild]

"Hi my name is Mandy, I'm a divorcee, with three kids. If you want to be my boyfriend you must buy me a house, look after all my family and buy me a house in my name."

Now lets go to Thailand

"Hi my name is Mandy, I'm a hooker. If you want to be my boyfriend you must buy me a house, look after all my family and buy me a house in my name, oh and you must pay my Mom Sin Sod so you can marry me. You must do all this, it is Thai culture".

Come on, you wouldn't marry a hooker in your own country so don't do it here.

You wouldn't pay a sin sod in your own country so don't do it here.

You wouldn't buy a house in your girlfriends name in your own country so don't do it here.

You wouldn't set up a direct debit to your girlfriends family in your own country so don't do it here.

...........and if your intended says you must do this as it is Thai culture, your reply is........I'm sorry, I am farang, I do not do Thai relationship culture. If you want to be my girlfriend you must learn farang culture.

Get the rules set early and you'll have a chance, possibly a good chance of a lasting relationship. There is one thing to remember which is a good rule of thumb, if your a decent guy and you treat your Thai girl decently, she won't want to lose you.

So you equate a divorcee in which ever country with, as you say a hooker in Thailand! Your perception of women is well somewhat messed up . It might have been better had you said a relationship isn't based on money and left it at that.

Nonsense, I am demonstrating a scenario that many farangs in Thailand are familiar with. The whole point is you wouldn't entertain getting as quickly and deeply financially involved with a potential new girlfriend in the West so don't do it here.

If you have a problem with that then you should go review the thousands of stories of Westerners falling into that trap I described. Too many people ( by the way, many of whom are vulnerable people ) have been financially wiped out in a short space of time in Thailand. If one person reads this post or thread and avoids that trap then it was worth it.

My point is why do you need to denigrate Thai women with the lowest common denominator of hooker? Not all Farang meet just bar-girls, as potential wives or end up marrying one.

I don't disagree about the guys being vulnerable but then I wonder how many of them were being honest to the lady. They are supposedly adult so even with the vulnerability they have them selves to blame for the situation they find them selves in. I have no sympathy for them. There is no excuse for leaving your brain at home! If they are that vulnerable, then they shouldn't be here.

That would probably mean most farang in Thailand shouldn't be here, LOS does seem to attract the wrong kind of men!

After all said and done, the reality is if you want a relationship it costs you one way or another regardless of what station you hold in life.

Edited December 4, 2011 by garrfeild

[TingTawng]

Well maybe I overstated the case for not wanting to be agrarian any more, so I'll partly retract that. However it is most certainly the case that Thailand is looking to become less dependent on agriculture in relation to it's overall GDP.

No, it's because you've just learnt from me that agriculture is the number one economy in Thailand as to why you're retracting your previous statements.

Thailand is certainly looking to expand it's industrial base, and quite frankly given the plans being offered up by the Chinese amongst others, it will most likely see an acceleration in industrial output, and will see a haemorrhaging of people from the countryside into the new urban sprawl.

Thailand has been producing agricultural goods on an industrial scale for 50 years. Please understand that the word "industrial" doesn't just mean smokey factories that make shiny electronics and/or cars. Thailand's number one economy - its number one industry - (by a long, long way) is agriculture. The very sector you blithely stated Thailand want to get rid of.

You've got a cheek talking about the riots in the UK, did you not see the carnage in Bangkok

How entirely predictable of you. May 2010 was preceded by 2 solid months of political discourse and peaceful protests by the red shirts (by the way, I'm not saying I agree with their politics). The August riots in England were a joke - I wouldn't even call them riots, but a bunch of toe-rags stealing flatscreen TVs and burning down innocent small businesses - no political message, no nothing, a bunch of mindless thugs - just the scum rising to the top in the UK. The fact that you compare a 2 month redshirt POLITICAL RALLY to the UK riots shows how little you understand (YET AGAIN!).

Seriously "theblether", it's come to the point now: you come across as such a mindless person - even by now I should have some kind of warming to you, but you seem so clueless about so much, I wonder if it's just you being contrarian (and I waver on this point) or simply you go through life without really understanding things, and you see things only viscerally (from gut feeling) which happens to be way off actual reality. You used your gut feeling on domestic violence stats, I presented facts using hundreds of studies - you STILL refuted those studies based on nothing more than your own innate gut feeling (you called it your "conviction") - this is called cognitive dissonance by the way where your gut instinct cannot reconcile reality, and you do the same on other points too. Do you discount facts in favour over what you simply want to believe, and what "feels right"? This is the very definition of a fool.

Edited December 4, 2011 by TingTawng

[theblether]

"Hi my name is Mandy, I'm a divorcee, with three kids. If you want to be my boyfriend you must buy me a house, look after all my family and buy me a house in my name."

Now lets go to Thailand

"Hi my name is Mandy, I'm a hooker. If you want to be my boyfriend you must buy me a house, look after all my family and buy me a house in my name, oh and you must pay my Mom Sin Sod so you can marry me. You must do all this, it is Thai culture".

Come on, you wouldn't marry a hooker in your own country so don't do it here.

You wouldn't pay a sin sod in your own country so don't do it here.

You wouldn't buy a house in your girlfriends name in your own country so don't do it here.

You wouldn't set up a direct debit to your girlfriends family in your own country so don't do it here.

...........and if your intended says you must do this as it is Thai culture, your reply is........I'm sorry, I am farang, I do not do Thai relationship culture. If you want to be my girlfriend you must learn farang culture.

Get the rules set early and you'll have a chance, possibly a good chance of a lasting relationship. There is one thing to remember which is a good rule of thumb, if your a decent guy and you treat your Thai girl decently, she won't want to lose you.

So you equate a divorcee in which ever country with, as you say a hooker in Thailand! Your perception of women is well somewhat messed up . It might have been better had you said a relationship isn't based on money and left it at that.

Nonsense, I am demonstrating a scenario that many farangs in Thailand are familiar with. The whole point is you wouldn't entertain getting as quickly and deeply financially involved with a potential new girlfriend in the West so don't do it here.

If you have a problem with that then you should go review the thousands of stories of Westerners falling into that trap I described. Too many people ( by the way, many of whom are vulnerable people ) have been financially wiped out in a short space of time in Thailand. If one person reads this post or thread and avoids that trap then it was worth it.

My point is why do you need to denigrate Thai women with the lowest common denominator of hooker? Not all Farang meet just bar-girls, as potential wives or end up marrying one.

I don't disagree about the guys being vulnerable but then I wonder how many of them were being honest to the lady. They are supposedly adult so even with the vulnerability they have them selves to blame for the situation they find them selves in. I have no sympathy for them. There is no excuse for leaving your brain at home! If they are that vulnerable, then they shouldn't be here.

That would probably mean most farang in Thailand shouldn't be here, LOS does seem to attract the wrong kind of men!

After all said and done, the reality is if you want a relationship it costs you one way or another regardless of what station you hold in life.

It was an example used for illustration purposes only and as I said it is a scenario that is familiar to many Thaivisa members. You know as well as I do that many farangs interact with Thai hookers so don't try to pretend otherwise. In this context my example stands.

I have said repeatedly that Farangs coming to Thailand should not park their brain at the airport, so on that note we agree.

[theblether]

Well maybe I overstated the case for not wanting to be agrarian any more, so I'll partly retract that. However it is most certainly the case that Thailand is looking to become less dependent on agriculture in relation to it's overall GDP.

No, it's because you've just learnt from me that agriculture is the number one economy in Thailand as to why you're retracting your previous statements.

Thailand is certainly looking to expand it's industrial base, and quite frankly given the plans being offered up by the Chinese amongst others, it will most likely see an acceleration in industrial output, and will see a haemorrhaging of people from the countryside into the new urban sprawl.

Thailand has been producing agricultural goods on an industrial scale for 50 years. Please understand that the word "industrial" doesn't just mean smokey factories that make shiny electronics and/or cars. Thailand's number one economy - its number one industry - (by a long, long way) is agriculture. The very sector you blithely stated Thailand want to get rid of.

You've got a cheek talking about the riots in the UK, did you not see the carnage in Bangkok

How entirely predictable of you. May 2010 was preceded by 2 solid months of political discourse and peaceful protests by the red shirts (by the way, I'm not saying I agree with their politics). The August riots in England were a joke - I wouldn't even call them riots, but a bunch of toe-rags stealing flatscreen TVs and burning down innocent small businesses - no political message, no nothing, a bunch of mindless thugs - just the scum rising to the top in the UK. The fact that you compare a 2 month redshirt POLITICAL RALLY to the UK riots shows how little you understand (YET AGAIN!).

Seriously "theblether", it's come to the point now: you come across as such a mindless person - even by now I should have some kind of warming to you, but you seem so clueless about so much, I wonder if it's just you being contrarian (and I waver on this point) or simply you go through life without really understanding things, and you see things only viscerally (from gut feeling) which happens to be way off actual reality. You used your gut feeling on domestic violence stats, I presented facts using hundreds of studies - you STILL refuted those studies based on nothing more than your own innate gut feeling (you called it your "conviction") - this is called cognitive dissonance by the way where your gut instinct cannot reconcile reality, and you do the same on other points too. Do you discount facts in favour over what you simply want to believe, and what "feels right"? This is the very definition of a fool.

OK, now you've resorted to personal abuse and I'm pretty sure that's against forum rules however...........................

You've blown a gasket to my response in regards to the UK riots, you drew the subject up, and I shot you down. I pointed out to you that I knew which society was more stable, and you don't like that. Tough, get over it.

However let's exam just one singular claim that you have repeatedly made. You claim that you have brought to me 287 surveys on the issue of domestic violence. That is a lie, you have brought nothing of the sort. Let's be seeing them, all of them.

You have a conceit of yourself that knows no bounds, now put up or shut up.

[Forethat]

One would also have to be blind to not recognize the similarities between Western and Thai culture too, and here we go on the magic roundabout again

The primary difference between Western culture and Thai culture now is, and I know you are not going to like this.............the different points in the respective development and urbanization of the economies.

There is virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, that you could ascribe to Thai culture that was not mirrored in the West. That includes religious and monastic imperatives, the need for families ( large families ) to ensure that people were looked after into old age etc etc etc. Urbanization and the creation of the welfare state reduced this dependence on families as your pension scheme hence there has been a rapid shift in familial relationships in the West!!!

To deny this is to deny history, look beyond your nose!!! TingTawng made a valid point about the state of life in Japan, I agree with him ( shock development huh? ) that the Japanese lifestyle is to be pitied, and I don't want to see that replicated anywhere, especially Thailand. I love Thailand just the way it is and I wish I had seen it 30 years ago.

However!! Thailand doesn't want to be an agrarian economy any more, it is on a headlong rush to industrialization and urbanization, and that will bring with it exactly the same problems that have been encountered in the West.

If you don't agree with that then up to you, only time will tell who is right and who is wrong

Unfortunately you wont score any points by referring to historical facts - we're approaching 2012 and you are arguing that posters don't look beyond their noses when they state that Thailand differs from other countries by way of robbing the children from education in favor of their own retirement? And you claim the reason for the similarity TODAY is that western countries did the same thing hundreds of years ago...?

An even greater difference between Western countries and Thailand is the ability to listen and learn, most being childishly stubborn and immature (with this in mind, there appears to be a small number of these unfortunate elements spawning from the western world as well, spilling in to this forum). There should be enough knowledge generated worldwide that Thailand could take advantage of in order to develop the country. Unfortunately, the social aspects of the culture makes this tactic unlikely.

[TingTawng]

You've blown a gasket to my response in regards to the UK riots, you drew the subject up, and I shot you down. I pointed out to you that I knew which society was more stable, and you don't like that. Tough, get over it.

I drew the subject up to illustrate what a cultural vacuum the UK is. Thailand has its political instability for sure - we've seen that over the years - but that doesn't mean it has no culture or that family life is somehow unstable.

However let's exam just one singular claim that you have repeatedly made. You claim that you have brought to me 287 surveys on the issue of domestic violence. That is a lie, you have brought nothing of the sort. Let's be seeing them, all of them.

I already did supply these - it's no "lie". Did you not even click on one of the links I previously supplied? If not I supply them again :-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence (Home Office stats)

http://www.australian-news.com.au/domestic_violence_statistics.htm

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm (282 independent studies)

About the 282 studies:-

SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 282 scholarly investigations: 218 empirical studies and 64 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 369,800.

Some random studies of the 282:-

Fergusson, D. M., Horwood, L. J., & Ridder, E. M. (2005). Partner violence and mental health outcomes in a New Zealand birth cohort. Journal of Marriage and Family, 67, 1103-1119. (Examined extent of domestic violence experience and perpetration in a sample of 828 <437 women, 391 men> young adults who were 25 years old. Subjects were part of a long term longitudinal study and were administered the CTS2. Results reveal that "there were more men exposed to severe domestic violence than women" and that mild and moderate rates were similar for men and women. Overall, 39.4% of women and 30.9% of men reported perpetration scores of 3 or higher. Authors report that men and women reported similar rates of injury <3.9% for women vs. 3.3% for men>. In terms of initiation of partner assaults, 34% of women and 12% of men reported initiating physical assaults.)

Gonzalez, D. M. (1997). Why females initiate violence: A study examining the reasons behind assaults on men. Unpublished master's thesis, California State University, Long Beach. (225 college women participated in a survey which examined their past history and their rationales for initiating aggression with male partners. Subjects also responded to 8 conflict scenarios which provided information regarding possible reasons for the initiation of aggression. Results indicate that 55% of the subjects admitted to initiating physical aggression toward their male partners at some point in their lives. The most common reason was that aggression was a spontaneous reaction to frustration).

Kim, K., & Cho, Y. (1992). Epidemiological survey of spousal abuse in Korea. In E. C. Viano (Ed.) Intimate Violence: Interdisciplinary Perspectives. (pp. 277-282). Bristol, PA: Taylor and Francis. (Utilized the Conflict Tactics scale in interviews with a random sample of 1,316 married Koreans <707 women, 609 men>. Compared to findings with American couples, results indicate that Korean men were victimized by their wives twice as much as American men, while Korean women were victimized by their spouses three times as much as American women.)

The studies are taken from all over the world and are completely independent of one another.

I'm now labouring the point way too much on domestic violence because you still refuse to accept all these studies. Go investigate these studies further if you're interested.

Edited December 5, 2011 by TingTawng

[theblether]

One would also have to be blind to not recognize the similarities between Western and Thai culture too, and here we go on the magic roundabout again

The primary difference between Western culture and Thai culture now is, and I know you are not going to like this.............the different points in the respective development and urbanization of the economies.

There is virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, that you could ascribe to Thai culture that was not mirrored in the West. That includes religious and monastic imperatives, the need for families ( large families ) to ensure that people were looked after into old age etc etc etc. Urbanization and the creation of the welfare state reduced this dependence on families as your pension scheme hence there has been a rapid shift in familial relationships in the West!!!

To deny this is to deny history, look beyond your nose!!! TingTawng made a valid point about the state of life in Japan, I agree with him ( shock development huh? ) that the Japanese lifestyle is to be pitied, and I don't want to see that replicated anywhere, especially Thailand. I love Thailand just the way it is and I wish I had seen it 30 years ago.

However!! Thailand doesn't want to be an agrarian economy any more, it is on a headlong rush to industrialization and urbanization, and that will bring with it exactly the same problems that have been encountered in the West.

If you don't agree with that then up to you, only time will tell who is right and who is wrong

Unfortunately you wont score any points by referring to historical facts - we're approaching 2012 and you are arguing that posters don't look beyond their noses when they state that Thailand differs from other countries by way of robbing the children from education in favor of their own retirement? And you claim the reason for the similarity TODAY is that western countries did the same thing hundreds of years ago...?

An even greater difference between Western countries and Thailand is the ability to listen and learn, most being childishly stubborn and immature (with this in mind, there appears to be a small number of these unfortunate elements spawning from the western world as well, spilling in to this forum). There should be enough knowledge generated worldwide that Thailand could take advantage of in order to develop the country. Unfortunately, the social aspects of the culture makes this tactic unlikely.

I don't understand your post, in particular the phrase ....... "robbing the children from education in favor of their own retirement?", can you clarify please?

I also don't understand why you think I'm trying to score "points by referring to historical facts", so can you clarify that too please?

[theblether]

I'm now labouring the point way too much on domestic violence because you still refuse to accept all these studies. Go investigate these studies further if you're interested.

Great, thanks for that.......yes I did miss the link to the 282 studies that you said you brought to me, I'm pretty sure I would have spotted them.

So now your on a roll go find the post where I said that domestic violence wasn't an issue.

I'm pretty sure, ( nay, positive ) that I didn't say that. In fact I'm pretty sure I dug up the conviction rates for domestic violence in the UK and posted them. Or did I not?

Have a look at this interesting study, now before you start coughing and spluttering, at my cheek at not bowing down to your greatness, you may find this report very very interesting.

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/Thailand_statistics.html

Amongst many interesting stats there is a reference to the continuing urbanization of Thailand. Now you lived in Japan, so you keep telling us. You know how stressful life was in Japan, so you keep telling us. So maybe now you can explain to me how Thailand is going to avoid the pitfalls of urbanization that have befallen every other country in the world.

If you can do that, then I will bow down to your greatness.

[theblether]

At the risk of going back on topic I noticed this story on my travels through cyberspace. It's a wee bit bit old now but hey, what a statistic that is!!

http://www.divorcethailand.com/relationship-statistics-in-thailand.html

[TingTawng]

Amongst many interesting stats there is a reference to the continuing urbanization of Thailand. Now you lived in Japan, so you keep telling us. You know how stressful life was in Japan, so you keep telling us. So maybe now you can explain to me how Thailand is going to avoid the pitfalls of urbanization that have befallen every other country in the world.

theblether, the problem with your thinking is you always dismiss culture. You think all countries turn out the same if they become wealthy. Thailand won't end up like Japan because their cultures are different. Japan's culture is that work comes first, families second. In Thailand, the family comes first, work comes second. In Japan, work is an end in itself. In Thailand, work is a means to an end. Look at Europe - different cultures, different approaches to life, different lifestyles. Why should Thailand follow Japan? Different cultures and different mentalities altogether.

So now your on a roll go find the post where I said that domestic violence wasn't an issue.

Not sure what you mean by "wasn't an issue", but to quote you earlier:-

Your contention about the levels of domestic violence.........as you have referred to the progressive UK publication known as the Guardian, lets have a look at the domestic violence convictions in the UK.

Women convicted of domestic violence 4,000

Men convicted of domestic violence 55,000

So that follows that by UK conviction rates, and the only rates that matter as they are the only ones that have been tested in court, men are responsible for 93% of domestic violence. Sounds about right to me.

I'm not one for believing surveys, if your British you'll know that 9/10 cats prefer Whiskas, that has roughly the same validity as the majority of surveys that you read.

You then proceeded to ignore why men are less likely to go through the courts (which was mentioned in the Guardian article) - because they're less likely to GET to that stage (police ignoring complaints).

The more interesting question in all of this is - why are you so resistant to the idea that men are just as likely as women to be victims of domestic violence?

Either all 282 independent studies, Home Office stats etc. are all wrong, or they're onto something. It's up to you whether you want to go with your "conviction" or facts.

Edited December 5, 2011 by TingTawng

[PattaniMan]

Let me ask little Snapper Boy two questions:

1. are you the best in Thailand at what you do?

2. are you at the top of your chosen profession / are you considered a leader in your profession?

If you can answer yes to both questions, contact me privately and be prepared to prove it. After that, I will prove why I too can answer yes.

If you can't do this ............ drop the Alpha-Beta nonsense, keep your anonymity, and accept that an Alpha here on Thaivisa is laughing at you.

Seems I hit a nerve here.

Being easily upset is another typical Beta trait.

Women hate it, and Thai women in particular.

There is nothing wrong being beta. But Betas have provider status. Women will cheat on them if they have a chance. And/or will divorce, as it is common in the West because of the high beta rate of men.

As long men don't understand the basics of relationships and female psychology, they will lose in the end. If you want a successful relationship, with Thai or other women, get rid of the most typical beta behaviours.

I'm not upset.

I just offered you a simple challenge. Alphas are winners. They expect to succeed at what they do. They are competitive. Hence their desire to offer and accept challenges.

Betas, however, are less competitive. They fear challenge because they expect to lose.

Note that I am the one to offer the challenge, and note that you are the one to run away.

Edited December 5, 2011 by PattaniMan

[soomak]

To deny this is to deny history, look beyond your nose!!! TingTawng made a valid point about the state of life in Japan, I agree with him ( shock development huh? ) that the Japanese lifestyle is to be pitied, and I don't want to see that replicated anywhere, especially Thailand. I love Thailand just the way it is and I wish I had seen it 30 years ago.

However!! Thailand doesn't want to be an agrarian economy any more, it is on a headlong rush to industrialization and urbanization, and that will bring with it exactly the same problems that have been encountered in the West.

Well it's nice to see we agree about some things (seriously, I was beginning to take you for a contrarian).

However, let me spoil the love-in somewhat. I disagree that Thailand is somehow getting rid of its position as no.1 rice exporter to the world (amongst many other food exports). Actually agriculture is a huge part of Thailand's economy:-

Recent developments in agriculture have meant that since the 1960s, unemployment has fallen from over 60% to under 10% in the early 2000s.[1] In the same period: food prices halved, hunger decreased (from 2.55 million households in 1988 to 418,000 in 2007) and child malnutrition have greatly reduced (from 17% in 1987 to 7% in 2006).[1] This has been achieved (a) through a mixture of a strong and positive state role in ensuring investment in infrastructure, education and access to credit and ( successful private initiatives in the agribusiness sector.[1] This has supported Thailand's transition to a[n] industrialised economy

Link: http://en.wikipedia....ure_in_Thailand

Note that "industrialised economy" is referring in context to industrialisation of agriculture scaling up to deal with external demand.

So agriculture is actually responsible for much of the employment in Thailand, and is responsible for Thailand being the no.1 rice exporter to the world (ahead of China).

Agriculture is by far Thailand's biggest contributer to its economy.

Your too good to me

I'm not denying that agriculture will not continue to be a vastly important part of the Thai economy, but as onionluke points in in his own inimitable fashion there will be more mechanization and therefore less labour intensity. ( I know it doesn't apply to every branch of agriculture blah blah,).

The rush to urbanization and industrialization are the main factors here. We've had it in the West, it's happened at breakneck speed on the Eastern Seaboard of China, South Korea went from an agrarian economy to economic superpower in less than 40 years and you know what happened to Japan as you lived there.

You noted that the quality of life in Japan is poor, with high stress levels all round, South Korean teenagers are recognized as being the most stressed and pressurized in the world, and that other beacon of financial progress, Singapore is recognized as being another of the more stressful places on earth to live.

My point is Thailand should be careful what it asks for, because sometimes it will get it. IMHO It will not avoid the stresses and pressures that come with urbanization, and that will badly hit family life.

Incidentally on that note I see a news article on Thaivisa today that they are planning to move the factories to higher ground, so new urbanization is on it's way.

Just to correct one claim about the share of agriculture in the Thai economy:

(this is a quote from Wikipedia) "In 2008 agriculture, forestry, and fishing contributed only 8.4% percent to GDP"

It's true that 40% or so of the work force in Thailand works in agriculture, but the productivity is very low, so the effect on the GDP is low.

Just for comparison:

Where I come from only 2% work in agriculture, yet they produce enough fruit, vegetable, eggs, milk & dairy, chickens for the entire population.

[robkey69]

At last after being married for 16 years to an "educated Thai woman" as she so soundly states every other hour...I've come to this conclusion.......

Thai women never marry for love....its security....a farlang/husband falls right below the family dog in the relative tree...they are more concerned about their own health and family issues then yours. If they can't do something they refuse to learn with the common verbiage of....well in Thailand we don't need to do that...we just pay someone to do it....

Thai women are first in line to take credit for anything positive but come up with this BS line...if something goes wrong or you make a mistake...."you can't accept yourself". Lastly they are probably the most class conciseness people in the world...

All and all.....I have to say I fell victim to "Amazing Thailand" just like the famous line from the old movie Animal House...."Face it Flouder, you fked up!"

Last but not least....

Do you know why Farlang husbands to Thai women die first?

Because we want to.....555555

For what its worth!

But there is an awful lot of truth to this...

[nocturn]

hi-so = moody, selfish, spoilt woman with entitlement complex who models herself on the moody, selfish, spoilt women she watches on lakorns.

Can someone explain to me the appeal of such a woman, other than for a farang male to sound superior on thaivisa.com?

it is abundantly clear that neither you not the majority of posters here actually understand what Hi-so means.

[theblether]

Quote from soomak

Just to correct one claim about the share of agriculture in the Thai economy:

(this is a quote from Wikipedia) "In 2008 agriculture, forestry, and fishing contributed only 8.4% percent to GDP"

It's true that 40% or so of the work force in Thailand works in agriculture, but the productivity is very low, so the effect on the GDP is low.

Just for comparison:

Where I come from only 2% work in agriculture, yet they produce enough fruit, vegetable, eggs, milk & dairy, chickens for the entire population.

Your taking a risk correcting TingTawng he'll go mad

[theblether]

Amongst many interesting stats there is a reference to the continuing urbanization of Thailand. Now you lived in Japan, so you keep telling us. You know how stressful life was in Japan, so you keep telling us. So maybe now you can explain to me how Thailand is going to avoid the pitfalls of urbanization that have befallen every other country in the world.

theblether, the problem with your thinking is you always dismiss culture. You think all countries turn out the same if they become wealthy. Thailand won't end up like Japan because their cultures are different. Japan's culture is that work comes first, families second. In Thailand, the family comes first, work comes second. In Japan, work is an end in itself. In Thailand, work is a means to an end. Look at Europe - different cultures, different approaches to life, different lifestyles. Why should Thailand follow Japan? Different cultures and different mentalities altogether.

So now your on a roll go find the post where I said that domestic violence wasn't an issue.

Not sure what you mean by "wasn't an issue", but to quote you earlier:-

Your contention about the levels of domestic violence.........as you have referred to the progressive UK publication known as the Guardian, lets have a look at the domestic violence convictions in the UK.

Women convicted of domestic violence 4,000

Men convicted of domestic violence 55,000

So that follows that by UK conviction rates, and the only rates that matter as they are the only ones that have been tested in court, men are responsible for 93% of domestic violence. Sounds about right to me.

I'm not one for believing surveys, if your British you'll know that 9/10 cats prefer Whiskas, that has roughly the same validity as the majority of surveys that you read.

You then proceeded to ignore why men are less likely to go through the courts (which was mentioned in the Guardian article) - because they're less likely to GET to that stage (police ignoring complaints).

The more interesting question in all of this is - why are you so resistant to the idea that men are just as likely as women to be victims of domestic violence?

Either all 282 independent studies, Home Office stats etc. are all wrong, or they're onto something. It's up to you whether you want to go with your "conviction" or facts.

I'm sorry TingTawng, you've been out of the country for too long. Domestic violence is now a top police priority.......in fact it has been for a while as the morgues have been filling up with the victims on too regular a basis.

The courts are far more prepared to convict than before and there have been several high profile media campaigns on the subject. The days of " What goes on behind closed doors " have gone. Have a look at this protocol.

www.copfs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Publications/.../0000143.pdf

You will find any Police Force or officer not abiding with that protocol will be in serious trouble.

The issue of female on male violence has also been recognized as a problem and I have no doubt that there are men out there who are ashamed to come forward.

Equally there are females that are ashamed to come forward.

I did not state it was a non-problem, I did not deny that female on male domestic violence existed, I gave you the conviction figures. To my recollection you then brought up the issue of non-reporting and non-investigation in regards to men, and I then brought forward the figures for domestic murder cases.

Anyone with eyes can see that the figure for the first category ( 93% male on female domestic violence ) as compared to the second ( 82% male on female domestic murder ) shows a substantial difference in conviction rate. That may well be because you know there is no doubt that the police will investigate a murder to the Nth degree. So the concept of non-reporting goes out of the window.

Anyone thinking that female on male domestic violence is on a par with male on female domestic violence is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I've got nothing more to say on that matter.

On your other issue reference culture, yes I will give you credence that there are cultural differences, and this is part of the reason why the Thai/Chinese families have risen to the top so quickly in this society. The Chinese immigrants grafted like hell because that is their ethic and they now have the reward. ( This is obviously a boon for Thaivisa members because apparently we're all married to Hi-So Thai/Chinese Business Graduates ).

However I maintain that the ongoing urbanization and industrialization of the country will dislocate family life in Thailand, just as it has done in every other developed and developing country. The best you will squeeze from me is that it may take longer to happen, or that it may not happen to the same extent as some other countries, but now we will end up arguing about degrees of effect. That would be foolish huh?

I know you think I'm a contrarian, I'm not, I just don't agree with you.

[TingTawng]

hi-so = moody, selfish, spoilt woman with entitlement complex who models herself on the moody, selfish, spoilt women she watches on lakorns.

Can someone explain to me the appeal of such a woman, other than for a farang male to sound superior on thaivisa.com?

it is abundantly clear that neither you not the majority of posters here actually understand what Hi-so means.

Aren't you supposed to offer your description of "hi-so" here?

Edited December 6, 2011 by TingTawng

[TingTawng]

Anyone thinking that female on male domestic violence is on a par with male on female domestic violence is living in cloud cuckoo land.

When someone refuses to take on board facts, and displays every sign of idiocy and ignorance, is it really ad hominem to describe him as he is?

So you choose to ignore the findings of 282 studies (and there are a lot more out there) because of your dogmatic ignorance and childish refusal to "lose an argument".

No, 93% doesn't represent the number of male perpetrators of domestic violence - not according to all the studies I provided. YOU came up with the figure of 93% (not any study), by simply ignoring the problems men face, and looking only at conviction rates which reflect this reality (for men):-

• Nowhere to go - negligible support for men (shelters etc)
  
• Police less likely to believe them
  
• Breadwinners are the losers in any divorce/split - reporting your bullying spouse is likely to end in a divorce / loss of house / even crazily loss of custody of kids as breadwinner is not "stay at home" parent

Why would the Home Office stats even record 40% of victims being male if you are right?

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

Similar or slightly larger numbers of men were subjected to severe force in an incident with their partner, according to the same documents. The figure stood at 48.6% in 2006-07, 48.3% the next year and 37.5% in 2008-09, Home Office statistics show.

The 2008-09 bulletin states: "More than one in four women (28%) and around one in six men (16%) had experienced domestic abuse since the age of 16. These figures are equivalent to an estimated 4.5 million female victims of domestic abuse and 2.6 million male victims."

In addition, "6% of women and 4% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse in the past year, equivalent to an estimated one million female victims of domestic abuse and 600,000 male victims".

Also, it is your job to argue against all 282 studies and say why they are inaccurate. Nothing more to say on this, because I'm dealing with someone who isn't capable of absorbing facts.

Supplying facts to you is as futile as trying to collect water with a sieve!

Edited December 6, 2011 by TingTawng

[PaulBax]

Wife no 1 Educated abroad and from a family with "hi so " status in Thailand.

Family name from The previous king, Military, Civil service, Government, legal top positions.

The family was genuine and very good never asked for or expected money they only expected agreement on everything they said politically!

What i did not like was how they exploited the system to suit themselves even if they were totally in the wrong, however, I learned more about Thailand from discussions with Admirals, Generals, supreme court judges, diplomats etc than 99.9% of you will ever know or understand!

We just grew apart. after 15 years of marriage.

Wife no 2 from issan came to Bkk at 6 to stay with family, finished school and has always worked for herself & and is now very successful in her own right!

She is fiercely independent and rightly proud of her accomplishments. She has no university education nor has she ever needed one. She has one thing many Thais lack

and that is drive!

Family is also very genuine without any demands for maintenance. in fact everything comes from them without conditions or expectations and coming from a completely different perspective politically yet they have never once tried to push their views on me.

Like all relationships there has to be give and take and i find that age has little to do with anything but mutual respect does!

I see a lot of people looking down at people with tattoos and a beer belly and as someone with a fair bit of art, a developing belly, a TEFL and a university education i find it a bit rich

that thinner, artless and in many cases less educated/informed people are the bastions of all things knowledgeable and correct or should I say they are just the usual ill informed bigots generalising as much about foreigners as they do about Thais!:jap: In truth the probably neither truly understand their own countries or Thailand! ( and I see there is very little real understanding of Thailand on TV)

I do not agree that all ex bar girls are bad or all non bar girls are good as I know good and bad in both! The only advice i would give to anyone in Thailand is "don't leave your brains at the airport!" and

if you do then you have only yourselves to blame!:jap:

[BRichards]

At last after being married for 16 years to an "educated Thai woman" as she so soundly states every other hour...I've come to this conclusion.......

Thai women never marry for love....its security....a farlang/husband falls right below the family dog in the relative tree...they are more concerned about their own health and family issues then yours. If they can't do something they refuse to learn with the common verbiage of....well in Thailand we don't need to do that...we just pay someone to do it....

Thai women are first in line to take credit for anything positive but come up with this BS line...if something goes wrong or you make a mistake...."you can't accept yourself". Lastly they are probably the most class conciseness people in the world...

All and all.....I have to say I fell victim to "Amazing Thailand" just like the famous line from the old movie Animal House...."Face it Flouder, you fked up!"

Last but not least....

Do you know why Farlang husbands to Thai women die first?

Because we want to.....555555

For what its worth!

But there is an awful lot of truth to this...

Can be said about Hong Kong women as well. I learned my lesson when I was in my mid 20's back in Miami. I am enjoying my stay in Asia and now I can really appreciate the women back home because they communicate well, they will communicate they want sex and they need it and not just to please me, they have more confidence. in most cases are independant and will trest me to dinner and many enjoy sports and participate in sport activities. Also most are less worried about what the public will think. BR

[Forethat]

I don't understand your post, in particular the phrase ....... "robbing the children from education in favor of their own retirement?", can you clarify please?

I am referring to the many Thai youngsters who will never get an education because they are sent to work at an early age. If the parents had an education they would earn enough money not having to do this. Is this overclear enough even for you!?

I also don't understand why you think I'm trying to score "points by referring to historical facts", so can you clarify that too please?

"There is virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, that you could ascribe to Thai culture that was not mirrored in the West. That includes religious and monastic imperatives, the need for families ( large families ) to ensure that people were looked after into old age etc etc etc. Urbanization and the creation of the welfare state reduced this dependence on families as your pension scheme hence there has been a rapid shift in familial relationships in the West!!!

To deny this is to deny history, look beyond your nose!!!"

An even greater difference between Western countries and Thailand is the ability to listen and learn, most being childishly stubborn and immature (with this in mind, there appears to be a small number of these unfortunate elements spawning from the western world as well, spilling in to this forum).

But this one sank in without any issues from your side, huh...?

Edited December 6, 2011 by Forethat

[JurgenG]

Wife no 1 Educated abroad and from a family with "hi so " status in Thailand.

Family name from The previous king, Military, Civil service, Government, legal top positions.

The family was genuine and very good never asked for or expected money they only expected agreement on everything they said politically!

What i did not like was how they exploited the system to suit themselves even if they were totally in the wrong, however, I learned more about Thailand from discussions with Admirals, Generals, supreme court judges, diplomats etc than 99.9% of you will ever know or understand!

We just grew apart. after 15 years of marriage.

Wife no 2 from issan came to Bkk at 6 to stay with family, finished school and has always worked for herself & and is now very successful in her own right!

She is fiercely independent and rightly proud of her accomplishments. She has no university education nor has she ever needed one. She has one thing many Thais lack

and that is drive!

Family is also very genuine without any demands for maintenance. in fact everything comes from them without conditions or expectations and coming from a completely different perspective politically yet they have never once tried to push their views on me.

Like all relationships there has to be give and take and i find that age has little to do with anything but mutual respect does!

I see a lot of people looking down at people with tattoos and a beer belly and as someone with a fair bit of art, a developing belly, a TEFL and a university education i find it a bit rich

that thinner, artless and in many cases less educated/informed people are the bastions of all things knowledgeable and correct or should I say they are just the usual ill informed bigots generalising as much about foreigners as they do about Thais!:jap: In truth the probably neither truly understand their own countries or Thailand! ( and I see there is very little real understanding of Thailand on TV)

I do not agree that all ex bar girls are bad or all non bar girls are good as I know good and bad in both! The only advice i would give to anyone in Thailand is "don't leave your brains at the airport!" and

if you do then you have only yourselves to blame!:jap:

I learned more about Thailand from discussions with Admirals, Generals, supreme court judges, diplomats etc than 99.9% of you will ever know or understand!

.... less educated/informed people are the bastions of all things knowledgeable and correct or should I say they are just the usual ill informed bigots generalising as much about foreigners as they do about Thais!:jap: In truth the probably neither truly understand their own countries or Thailand!

I hope you see the irony of your post ....

Edited December 6, 2011 by JurgenG

[JurgenG]

At last after being married for 16 years to an "educated Thai woman" as she so soundly states every other hour...I've come to this conclusion.......

Thai women never marry for love....its security....a farlang/husband falls right below the family dog in the relative tree...they are more concerned about their own health and family issues then yours. If they can't do something they refuse to learn with the common verbiage of....well in Thailand we don't need to do that...we just pay someone to do it....

Thai women are first in line to take credit for anything positive but come up with this BS line...if something goes wrong or you make a mistake...."you can't accept yourself". Lastly they are probably the most class conciseness people in the world...

All and all.....I have to say I fell victim to "Amazing Thailand" just like the famous line from the old movie Animal House...."Face it Flouder, you fked up!"

Last but not least....

Do you know why Farlang husbands to Thai women die first?

Because we want to.....555555

For what its worth!

But there is an awful lot of truth to this...

You post is a bit excessive but made me laugh because somehow it's so true

[PaulBax]

Wife no 1 Educated abroad and from a family with "hi so " status in Thailand.

Family name from The previous king, Military, Civil service, Government, legal top positions.

The family was genuine and very good never asked for or expected money they only expected agreement on everything they said politically!

What i did not like was how they exploited the system to suit themselves even if they were totally in the wrong, however, I learned more about Thailand from discussions with Admirals, Generals, supreme court judges, diplomats etc than 99.9% of you will ever know or understand!

We just grew apart. after 15 years of marriage.

Wife no 2 from issan came to Bkk at 6 to stay with family, finished school and has always worked for herself & and is now very successful in her own right!

She is fiercely independent and rightly proud of her accomplishments. She has no university education nor has she ever needed one. She has one thing many Thais lack

and that is drive!

Family is also very genuine without any demands for maintenance. in fact everything comes from them without conditions or expectations and coming from a completely different perspective politically yet they have never once tried to push their views on me.

Like all relationships there has to be give and take and i find that age has little to do with anything but mutual respect does!

I see a lot of people looking down at people with tattoos and a beer belly and as someone with a fair bit of art, a developing belly, a TEFL and a university education i find it a bit rich

that thinner, artless and in many cases less educated/informed people are the bastions of all things knowledgeable and correct or should I say they are just the usual ill informed bigots generalising as much about foreigners as they do about Thais!:jap: In truth the probably neither truly understand their own countries or Thailand! ( and I see there is very little real understanding of Thailand on TV)

I do not agree that all ex bar girls are bad or all non bar girls are good as I know good and bad in both! The only advice i would give to anyone in Thailand is "don't leave your brains at the airport!" and

if you do then you have only yourselves to blame!:jap:

I learned more about Thailand from discussions with Admirals, Generals, supreme court judges, diplomats etc than 99.9% of you will ever know or understand!

.... less educated/informed people are the bastions of all things knowledgeable and correct or should I say they are just the usual ill informed bigots generalising as much about foreigners as they do about Thais!:jap: In truth the probably neither truly understand their own countries or Thailand!

I hope you see the irony of your post ....

buttons exist for them to be pushed!

[sparebox2]

Congratulation on all those long relationship mentioned here.

BTW, when was the last time you ask her to hand in your ATM card?

[theblether]

Anyone thinking that female on male domestic violence is on a par with male on female domestic violence is living in cloud cuckoo land.

When someone refuses to take on board facts, and displays every sign of idiocy and ignorance, is it really ad hominem to describe him as he is?

So you choose to ignore the findings of 282 studies (and there are a lot more out there) because of your dogmatic ignorance and childish refusal to "lose an argument".

No, 93% doesn't represent the number of male perpetrators of domestic violence - not according to all the studies I provided. YOU came up with the figure of 93% (not any study), by simply ignoring the problems men face, and looking only at conviction rates which reflect this reality (for men):-

• Nowhere to go - negligible support for men (shelters etc)
• Police less likely to believe them
• Breadwinners are the losers in any divorce/split - reporting your bullying spouse is likely to end in a divorce / loss of house / even crazily loss of custody of kids as breadwinner is not "stay at home" parent

Why would the Home Office stats even record 40% of victims being male if you are right?

Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.

Similar or slightly larger numbers of men were subjected to severe force in an incident with their partner, according to the same documents. The figure stood at 48.6% in 2006-07, 48.3% the next year and 37.5% in 2008-09, Home Office statistics show.

The 2008-09 bulletin states: "More than one in four women (28%) and around one in six men (16%) had experienced domestic abuse since the age of 16. These figures are equivalent to an estimated 4.5 million female victims of domestic abuse and 2.6 million male victims."

In addition, "6% of women and 4% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse in the past year, equivalent to an estimated one million female victims of domestic abuse and 600,000 male victims".

Also, it is your job to argue against all 282 studies and say why they are inaccurate. Nothing more to say on this, because I'm dealing with someone who isn't capable of absorbing facts.

Supplying facts to you is as futile as trying to collect water with a sieve!

First of all...........

Secondly here's your Xmas present........

and thirdly.......I wished you and your family a very Merry Xmas and you gave me abuse

Your a very bad man

[theblether]

I don't understand your post, in particular the phrase ....... "robbing the children from education in favor of their own retirement?", can you clarify please?

I am referring to the many Thai youngsters who will never get an education because they are sent to work at an early age. If the parents had an education they would earn enough money not having to do this. Is this overclear enough even for you!?

I also don't understand why you think I'm trying to score "points by referring to historical facts", so can you clarify that too please?

"There is virtually nothing, and I mean nothing, that you could ascribe to Thai culture that was not mirrored in the West. That includes religious and monastic imperatives, the need for families ( large families ) to ensure that people were looked after into old age etc etc etc. Urbanization and the creation of the welfare state reduced this dependence on families as your pension scheme hence there has been a rapid shift in familial relationships in the West!!!

To deny this is to deny history, look beyond your nose!!!"

An even greater difference between Western countries and Thailand is the ability to listen and learn, most being childishly stubborn and immature (with this in mind, there appears to be a small number of these unfortunate elements spawning from the western world as well, spilling in to this forum).

But this one sank in without any issues from your side, huh...?

First of all your getting me confused with TingTawng, it is he that revels in the poverty and lack of welfare state in Thailand.......not I

Secondly, I don't have a clue what your talking about, I find that part of your post to be.......overmuddy??